Subaru Crew Cafe

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Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    WHAT? hee hee

    -juice
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    1000 watts, huge subwoofer, pimp'n wheels
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Let's move this over to that thread. :-)

    -juice
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    1000 watts, huge subwoofer...
    it'll need BOVs [with bling too] ;-)

    -Dave
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Good point. It's probably because the two are inversely proportional to each other.

    Ken
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    ...even by Bay Area standards.

    It's going to hit 80 again today.

    Ken
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    um, I have a 1000 watt stereo and a 12" sub in my Evo.

    LOL

    ~c
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    We can't slide around any more if VDC becomes standard. ;-)

    Does the off button really turn it off?

    Colin: 12"? Wow, but does size matter? :o)

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    but you also have to know how to use it!

    ~c
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    um, I have a 1000 watt stereo and a 12" sub in my Evo.

    Okay... and that gives you what? The ability to make cars 50 feet away vibrate from the pounding bass? Man do I feel old!

    -Frank
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think if you point that thing facing back, it actually makes your car quicker! :o)

    -juice
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
  • jon_in_ctjon_in_ct Member Posts: 137
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    Bob,

    I just came across this post a day later, sorry not to be timely in response. John Ebstein's death was a major topic of discussion at my local Studebaker club's chapter meeting last week (the first I've been able to attend in some time). Several of our local members are fairly high-profile Avanti owners; one of them owns one of the very rare R3-powered cars.

    I'll drop you a line if I still have your e-mail address; if not I'll get it from juice.

    Thanks,
    Ed
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think the 5 series is going to get a *lot* more pressure from Acura, Infiniti, and Lexus. The RL is for real now, the M is longer longer a relic of the 80s and the GS made some big advances, too.

    I'm not saying any are best-in-class, but they certainly are a lot more competitive. And when you look at BMW's new 5, it didn't make nearly as much progress as those cars did.

    Wish I had $50k to spend! Though they're not my type of car, I think the wife would like 'em tho.

    Lutz is stepping back because response to the BLS was much better than he thought. Retract the statement, and hint that it might come to the US.

    Translation: Saab is in trouble. If there is no next-gen 9-3, the BLS would replace it, essentially. Also, if Saab goes to Subaru for platforms, again, the BLS would be the luxury Epsilon car for GM.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Here's an interesting historical tidbit on the property on which SOA headquarters is now located.

    http://www.courierpostonline.com/news/southjersey/m031105k.htm

    Bob
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    Bob: sent you an e-mail re John Ebstein.

    It could be argued that the site is still a "showplace of the stars" - in this case the Pleiades cluster! Just think how neat it would have been had SoA purchased Garden State Park and converted it into a test track.

    The DC-area Red Hot & Blue barbecue chain has a restaurant attached to the Holiday Inn next door to SoA. I've eaten there several times; it's okay but for a South Carolina boy raised on 'cue I grew up on much better. Still it's about as good as it gets in these parts (though I've recently discovered a really good little place in the NJ Pine Barrens).

    Ed
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Bob: sent you an e-mail re John Ebstein.

    And I just replied.

    Bob
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Translation: Saab is in trouble. If there is no next-gen 9-3, the BLS would replace it, essentially. Also, if Saab goes to Subaru for platforms, again, the BLS would be the luxury Epsilon car for GM.

    IMHO, I think all it means is that the BLS will come to the US as an entry level Cadillac in its next iteration. But, I think that SAAB will survive as GM's European entry in North America. Cadillac and SAAB will cater to different crowds and even though Cadillac is moving to European influences, it'll never be considered a European marque. And GM would want to have a European brand in the US.
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    Bob: Just checking in, replied to your reply.

    Saab and GM's "European brand": I'm old enough to remember seeing Opels on the road here - Kadetts, Mantas and the baby-Corvette-like GTs - and I know they were sold at Buick dealerships. I looked at a Manta as a car to take to college, and one of my profs had a Kadett wagon. I don't remember why Opel went away, though (wasn't paying attention very closely), so I don't know if it would make sense to revive that badge here. Daewoos are now being sold in Canada as Chevrolets, so who knows?

    Ed
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    My father-in-law had an orange Opel GT for a while. The fun factor wore off rather quickly, as I recall.

    Bob
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    IIRC, Opels were sold through Buick dealers in the late 60's early 70's. I think they were supposed to be an easy answer to better fuel economy for GM at that time.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It's funny what profound effects the A-class had on the auto industry, far beyond what anyone imagined.

    When Benz launched the A-class, Piech from VW felt threatened, because it went up against the Golf, at least in price. So VW went on their upscale rampage and did the whole Phaeton fiasco.

    Both of them lost focus and stopped paying attention to their bread-and-butter. VW ended up with a 7 year old Jetta to sell, while Mercedes' quality plunged.

    It seems both reached for the extremes of spectrum, ultra-high end and entry-level, and forgot what pays the bills!

    -juice
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Ed,

    From what I remember, Buick sold the Opel thru about 1979. The weak dollar had, by that time, helped push the price of those modest cars to somewhat unreasonable levels. In search for a replacement, GM went to Isuzu to find a new 'stocking stuffer' to help sagging Buick showroom traffic. For a year or two they actually called it the Opel-Isuzu.

    Steve
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=101992

    My guess is the small SUV will go against the all-new Forester, when it arrives in a couple of years.

    I bet the pickup will have some Ridgeline features—and will be very expensive and VW-like unreliable.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=101974

    This new Grand Cherokee, while better in just about every way from the last generation model, is a real snooze in my book. It's a classic case of too-little-too-late.

    Bob
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Geez another oddball name no one will be able to grasp: Beduin.

    And they strike again - according to the article it will be 2 more years for the Beduin, the truck for 2008, and the Concept C by the end of the decade. Why does it take VW so long to come out with new models?
  • Wow, Bangle truly is an arrogant SOB. There isn't a single attractive BMW in the current lineup, IMHO.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    If I were Bangle, I too would have been arrogant to that reporter. In fact, I'm surprised Bangle didn't haul off and put his lights out...

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Beduin is a dumb name and it just looks like a lifted Golf Plus. Where's the window behind the C pillar?

    The pickup looks way too small. Ridgeline is twice as big. Touareg is small too, so they'll have to modify that platform a lot for it to be successful.

    First time a reporter stood up to Bangle and challenged him, instead of submitting to his brainwashing, IMHO.

    VW Concept C looks good, but their 2 seat roadster looked even better.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    First time a reporter stood up to Bangle and challenged him, instead of submitting to his brainwashing, IMHO.

    He didn't challenge him, he insulted him.

    Bob
  • About time someone did. Bangle has repeatedly insulted the general public by claiming our design tastes need "refinement" to be at his level. He did it again in that interview. Ugly cars are our problem, not his, according to his philosophy.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    His designs may not wash here, but his cars do with BMW customers—and that's what counts.

    Bob
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Bob, they are hitting sales numbers but they are not winning comeliness awards.

    Building a successful car is not any specific science that people can readily pick apart and point at what makes a winner.

    Style, however, is clearly not one of BMW's strong points. I honestly believe they are trading on their name right now, and their (perhaps rightfully) perceived niche of performance luxury. They offer a lot of handling and a lot of power in their top level vehicles, and this "warm feeling" trickles down to people buying merely adequate 325s. Ugly 325s. :)

    A good example of this is how the last-generation Camaro and Firebird V8 easily defeated the Mustang GT (and Cobra) in every meaningful performance metric. It simply was never a contest in a straight line, handling, you name it. Both had live-axle suspensions but one of them actually worked, and lo and behold Ford has copied that 3-link design on the new Mustang!

    But look who's gone and who is still alive and selling well. :)

    ~Colin
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    They offer a lot of handling and a lot of power in their top level vehicles, and this "warm feeling" trickles down to people buying merely adequate 325s. Ugly 325s.

    Colin, Bangle-designed 3 Series BMWs have just been shown at Geneva. They are just starting to go on sale in Europe. Nobody here in the USA has bought one, since they're not on sale yet.

    But that's besides the point, you're getting side-tracked here. I'm not defending his designs, although I don't think they're nearly as bad as everyone here thinks they are. What I'm simply saying was that the Autoweek reporter was extremely rude, if not downright antagonistic IMO, and I full defend Bangle's verbal response. If it were me I would have gone a lot further.

    Bob
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    If it were me I would have gone a lot further.

    thats why bob wears a helmet
  • The reporter won. Bangle insulted the general public and looked like a total jerk. Someone with his blatant arrogance really shouldn't be publicly representing a company.
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    he matches them
  • Ha, ha. No doubt, Swampy. I've know lots of humble BMW owners, but plenty more Bangle elitists. Bangle's attitude is a total turnoff to me, though, especially considering all the great competition out there now.
  • tsytsy Member Posts: 1,551
    I personally don't like any of Bangle's Bimmers. I also don't know anyone who does (including the people that own them!) But people will buy a Bimmer regardless of how they look (as they are now) because of their name and also despite the way they look, are nice cars to drive. I think BMW would sell more if they were actually nice looking cars though.

    I think in that interview Bangle sounds quite arrogant (you have to be to design the cars he does) before the reporter insults him. He's just showing his true colors after the reporter confronts him.

    And no, not all BMW drivers are 'full of themselves.' ;-)

    tom
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I personally don't like any of Bangle's Bimmers. I also don't know anyone who does

    I think the Bangle-designed 6 Series coupe is fantastic looking. While I don't "love" the Bangle-designed 5 & 7 Series, I don't "hate" them either, same with the X3. I'm not at all fond of the Z3, but I do like the X5.

    There are a lot on design details on many of these models that I do like a lot, but in some cases the vehicle's looks as a "whole" are sometimes iffy.

    What I can't understand is the volume of hatred that is directed at this person. Why? Because he had the audacity to change the looks of a legendary car?

    Bob
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    Only because it is the German spelling.... Bedouin might have been better for English-speaking markets. Certainly better known as a group than the Touareg.
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    shudders me everytime i see that trunk, just like when i see an aztek. hmm wonder if the aztek designer just thinks he is great and the rest of us dont get it
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I just read the article. That was it?? The interviewer said the 7 was anything but attractive and Bangle said the public is ready to accept the design language. Where was the Full Contact Cage Match everyone seems to describe?

    IMHO the new BMW look isn't ugly. It's not the same as the old but it's not ugly. Besides, it isn't like Chris Bangle did every bit of the design work. He was head of design. Others came up with the ideas - he just set the direction.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Bangle's been antagonistic all this time. The reporter just beat him at his own game.

    What I can't understand is the volume of hatred that is directed at this person. Why? Because he had the audacity to change the looks of a legendary car?

    For the worse, but that's a solid Yes.

    I realize beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but have you ever seen such a near-universal dislike of someone's designs?

    I honestly think lesser brands would have gone bankrupt, but like Colin said it was the performance that kept customers coming.

    And the thing is he kept going even after the negative feedback. Now that is antagonistic.

    When he says things like "our customers like the designs", well, of course the people that buy it will generally like it more, they bought it didn't they?

    I believe the 5 and 6 have lost market share, so there are fewer customers too.

    I bet that if you surveyed the people that considered one but did not buy, styling would be the top reason they went elsewhere.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Now, having said all that, there are certain things about the design language that I do like:

    * the BMW logo on the side of the Z4 with side markers behind it
    * concave surfaces (when not overdone)
    * character lines on the shoulder

    What I don't like:

    * by far, the hump back trunk is #1
    * Dame Edna's eye glasses on the 5's lights
    * droopy looking front ends on 6 and Z3
    * certain bizarre touches lack design consistency

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Bangle's designs don't bother me nearly as much as they do others.

    Bob
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