Subaru Crew Cafe

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Comments

  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Going on a tangent, but I'm surprised that there were even 11,537 Pontiac Azteks sold!

    Ken
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That's a bit strange, CR puts Subaru on top for 2004 and the I35 had always scored well in reliability, yet owners put them at the top of the list.

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Definetly not a deal-breaker, but then again people by Rolex watches, right? :-)

    It would be interesting to know if BMW would have pushed the 7-series design down to the 5 and 3 series more had this information been available earlier.

    Ken
  • damish003damish003 Member Posts: 303
    Almost 28,000 complaints for the Impreza, and only 5,000 or so for the Neon??? This makes no sense whatsoever. Just a personal anecdote...owning two Imprezas, and one Neon, I'd find it hard to believe that more complaints are about the Impreza. I looked at the details on NHTSA's website a bit. First seven complaints were on the same car. Found more for the same car further down the list. Actually, if you search for any Impreza complaints for 2004, you get a total of 24 complaints. 24 total?? OK, where's the 28,000 come from, or am I just blind?

    -Dan-
  • rossm2rossm2 Member Posts: 96
    I think that there is a basic misreading of the posting.

    "The complaint index is based on a ratio of the number of complaints for each vehicle to the sales of that vehicle."

    The way I read this, the larger the number, the FEWER complaints (as in one Lemon Law complaint per 27,000 vs one per 5000 cars sold). Then again, I could me wrong.

    Ross
  • tsytsy Member Posts: 1,551
    Yeah Bob, but what it doesn't say is that they would have sold 50% more if it looked nice. ;-)

    A Bimmer is a Bimmer, regardless of what it looks like.

    tom
  • damish003damish003 Member Posts: 303
    Ross's reading of that makes a whole TON more sense than I'd believe otherwise. In that vein, it's very GOOD news for the Impreza.

    -Dan-
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    This is the best selling 7 Series—EVER! ...And your saying they could have sold 50% more if it was good looking?!?! Do you really believe that?

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It could have sold 10% more if it looked less controversial. But it seemed to sell just fine. Numbers I'd seen for US sales painted a less pretty picture, but global sales matter more of course.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    In the United States, the success of the current 7 Series is unparalleled. In its first three years, it outsold its predecessor's three best years by a significant seven percent.

    Looks pretty good to me.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Didn't read the whole article.

    Must've picked up recently. I haven't looked in a while but in one of the threads here the sales numbers didn't look so good about 1 year into the new 7 being on the market.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Well, that makes sense. The first year or so I'm sure more people hated the look than do now. Very simply, customers have gotten used to the new look.

    Same thing is beginning to happen with the Tribeca. There are far fewer complaints now than back in November when those first spy shots debuted.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Hopefully it'll sell well from the get-go, Subaru needs it.

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Bob, easy on the CAPS there buddy as it's barely the best-selling 7 series.. :-P

    the growth in the 3-er sales is quite a lot more. barely surpassing your previous mark, using the 3 series as a reference, is hardly something to get excited about.

    so IMO, I don't know about 50% more sales if it were good looking-- but I'd put a check in the box for "more", no question :)

    ~Colin
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Colin, how can you compare the 3 Series to the 7 Series? That's apples to oranges.

    Whether it out-sold the previous 7 Series by 1% or 7%, it doesn't matter. The fact of the matter is it's the best selling 7 Series. Period.

    ...And I'll use CAPs as I please, thank you very much...

    Bob
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Enough already. You guys are beating that poor horse to death ;-)

    -Frank
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    plan to gouge customers for the "privilege" of owning a RX400h and Highlander hybrid.

    http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=102066

    Bob
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I don't believe it's gouging at all, I believe the hybrid equipment costs at least that much of a premium over the gasoline powertrain.

    Regarding caps-- you have no sense of humor sometimes, Bob. To me a smashing success versus a slight increase is a huge difference. That 7 series article/comment was heavily slanted towards favoring the design, so I was just offering a counterpoint. (of course, I expect a slant-- it was written by BMW themselves.)

    ~Colin
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    n the United States, Lexus will charge $49,185 for the RX 400h, including destination. That is $11,360 more than the all-wheel-drive RX 330, but the RX 400h includes as standard equipment about $6,000 worth of RX 330 optional equipment. So the hybrid premium is about $5,360.

    That's $11+K Colin, when the hybrid equipment costs $5,360. I call that gouging. Maybe wealthy Lexus owners won't mind though.

    Nowhere did I use the words "smashing success." I did say "record," however—and a record is a record no matter how you slice it.

    I'm finished with this topic.

    Bob
  • Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    ...anyone care for some decaf?

    *cough*

    On another note, anyone been over to the new Speed Shop? What do you think?
  • tsytsy Member Posts: 1,551
    Sorry Bob, I was being facetious. A joke. Humor? Just to make a point.

    I will tell you, BMW sold one less 7 series because of the looks and because of i-drive last year. Instead, bought my parents an LS430 (which they still love, BTW)

    I doubt I'm the only one in the entire US that made the same decision.

    Just making a point, Bob. Nothing personal. Don't raise your blood pressure over it, it's not worth it. ;-)

    tom
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Bob - I think you misunderstood the pricing.

    That actual price is $11k higher, but it includes $6k worth of content that is optional on the RX330. So basically the surcharge for a hybrid system itself is $5k.

    Who knows that the actual costs are, they didn't say if they'd make money on each one sold, though I doubt they'll lose any.

    Sure the price is high, but they'll still have trouble meeting demand for the first two years, and that's still less than the cost of an H2. Plus it draws as much attention, and it's the positive kind.

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    exactly juice, what you typed there was clearly stated in the article. $5k seems about right.

    why give it away? the hybrid market is now established, and I wouldn't at all be surprised to see a price hike in other hybrids to make them profitable instead of a niche-carving mechanism.

    ~Colin
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Wow, that is a hefty premium, but as a marketeer, I don't see it as gouging -- it's extracting consumer surplus.

    Hybrid technolgy clearly commands a premium in many consumers minds. Even if you add up the gas savings and the extra cost of the hybrid components, there's still money left on the table. Look at the long waiting lists at dealers that do sell hybrid vehicles. It's a clear sign of an early developing market and I think companies are wise to take full advantage of that right now. Hybrid technology isn't all about been green anymore -- it's becoming a premium feature.

    If hybrid technology becomes more widespread and enters a more mature phase, price competion will set in and you'll see prices naturally fall.

    Ken
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think Bob's point is being largely missed (or ignored) by folks here.

    Never mind opinions on the looks, Bob's point was that people would get accustomed to the look and that the 7 series model would be a success. We (yes, including me) doubted that and argued otherwise.

    He was right, let's face it.

    Bottom line might even be that styling just isn't as important as we had thought. Even so, we were all wrong about that.

    I still won't say I like the 7 or the look, though the face-lift looks a lot better, but perhaps our Egos are getting the best of us here.

    Bob's only mistake was not betting on it, if he had we'd all be putting our money where our (big) mouth was.

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I'd be a stockholder in BMW or place a short sell order against it.

    otherwise this is just discussion, and I've said numerous times that we have no meaningful way to assess the importance of styling/appearance. Bob's also said he's done with this topic, which I am fine with, so I'm just replying to you, Juice.

    I love to debate just for argument's sake, and don't get excited about it. Others do.

    btw I'll take an S-class please.

    ~Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think their position is unique in that they are an Aspirational brand. By that I mean a lot of people that will never own one still look up to them. This creates a bit of a halo.

    I do think that the controversial styling reduced that some what, basically far fewer people today talk about aspiring to own a Bimmer.

    However, those people aren't putting money in BMW's bank vaults. That was the problem. What good does it do them if those folks aren't actually buying cars?

    The Gamble here was the actual owners would like it, or at least accept it (which is my understanding of Bob's argument). And that is what has happened.

    I'm sure they could care less that you'd rather have an S-class, given you're not exactly shopping for a 7. And I no longer drool over an M5, but again, whoop-de-doo. They don't care.

    I guess they're laughing all the way to the Bank.

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Well it's gouging in as much as Lexus is forcing you to buy $6k worth of "optional" equipment that you may not want. However, I suspect that Juice is right and they'll have no problem moving them. I'm guessing that after a year or two the price will come down and it'll be a stand-alone option.

    -Frank
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I mean, how much built-in content does Subaru's one and only model with VDC have?

    ~Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Good point, Colin. You have to spend $33k to get stability control on a Subaru.

    The Scion xB has it standard, for $13.8k.

    That's just industry practice (package high-demand stuff to maximize profits). If people buy it, the marketing guys look brilliant.

    It's funny, though, Toyota found that Prius buyers wanted the premium options, like Bluetooth, for instance. They are not getting the penny pinchers looking for stripped models, not at all.

    -juice
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    acura.com is so stupid. if you do not have flash installed, NOTHING. no html version. wow so forward thinking.
  • bigelmbigelm Member Posts: 995
    ... there's a non-flash version of subaru.com. I tried accessing it with my pocket pc and I was able to get on with HTML version... looks like they're still working on it cause not all links were working.
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
  • bigelmbigelm Member Posts: 995
    ... to get up from bed... yeah! ;-)
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    sweet, emotorcons! :D

    my gf Jen finished her homework last night in bed next to me with a laptop... wireless networks rule!

    ~c
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    :shades: cool

    -Dave
  • ladywclassladywclass Member Posts: 1,713
    do thisand thisand thisand some of this .. well .. you get the picture ... ;)
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    :):(:D :mad: :cry:
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    :P ;) :surprise: :blush: :confuse:
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    :sick: :shades: :lemon:

    Limit of 5 Emotorcons per message.

    "Ease up on the Emotorcons huh?" :D
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    :):(:D :mad: :cry: :P ;) :surprise: :blush: :confuse: :sick: :shades: :lemon:
  • ladywclassladywclass Member Posts: 1,713
    lol
  • Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    ....I'm loving the html!!! Although, my cat isn't excited.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    A hyper-fast charging new battery has been developed, and the automotive industry is part of the target market. I believe Subaru is working with this type of battery.

    http://www.informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=159908618&tid=5978

    Bob
  • Yeah, I saw that a few days ago on dpreview.com :
    http://www.dpreview.com/news/0503/05032903tosh1minbatt.asp

    Auto and industrial are the primary target markets. Digital photography enthusiasts are hoping Toshiba will turn their attention to smaller camera packs shortly after.

    What are you waiting for? Go buy that Toshiba stock right now! ;)
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I'm going to repost these links over in the "News and Views" area, as I think there will be interest over there too.

    Bob
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