Subaru Crew Cafe

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Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I also like boxy vehicles but this one is just unimaginative. It's a re-tread.

    Looks like a swollen '84.

    Let me see it in person, though.

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    swollen? it's more than 2x the weight! :)

    ~Colin
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Sorry juice, I disagree. I don't see it as old news, or uninspired. Rather I see it building upon Jeep heritage. The old Cherokee was loved my many Jeepers, and the new Liberty is hated by many Jeepers, so it makes sense for Jeep to go this route. Is it a blatant move to keep current Jeepers from leaving the family. Absolutely.

    I too need to see it in person, but my initial reaction is very positive.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Maybe I'm just seeing too much of this, but it seems to me that while most people look forward, the domestic brands look back to some idealized glorious past, perhaps to a time before imports were common place.

    I just prefer to see forward-thinking concepts. Perhaps it has a lot of hidden features we'll find out about on Wednesday, hope so.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Maybe I'm just seeing too much of this, but it seems to me that while most people look forward, the domestic brands look back to some idealized glorious past, perhaps to a time before imports were common place.

    They are looking forward, but a the same time, acknowledging their past. I don't have a problem with that.

    Bob
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    hmm so to see forward and backwards they have eyes on the back of their heads, scary.
  • rob_mrob_m Member Posts: 820
    ... it's a jeep thing. :) Rob M.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think it's more than just acknowledging their past, it actually is their past.

    Again, I'll reserve final comments until I can see the thing. I had better have a *lot* of hidden innovation.

    -juice
  • Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    Yeah, but how many of the youngsters here have even heard of a Tucker?

    Me! I have!

    My husband's grandfather owned a Tucker.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://asia1.com.sg/st/st_20050322_307018.html
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    According to tender award details on the government eBusiness website, they cost $618,000 - nearly half the cost of a similar order from BMW or Volvo.

    They cost $618,000... that's not for the fleet.

    -Dave
  • ladywclassladywclass Member Posts: 1,713
    When I was in high school (early 70's) we had a neighbor who had a DeLorean ... I babysat for them, so I actually got to ride down the street in it a few times .... totally cool ...
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    There was a movie in the 80's about Tucker and his vision. I remember seeing it and thinking that here was a man who had a brain, just not good business sense with the Big 3.

    You see one occasionally at a classic car show.

    Mark
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Cool, now they can catch outlaw kids that do crazy things. Like chew gum. ;-)

    Aviator sounds a bit like the movie you describe. The interesting thing about him, to me, was that a leader that truly pushes the envelop seems crazy to everyone around him.

    Until they succeed.

    -juice
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    As a former Cherokee owner, my initial reaction was positive. But then I saw the GVWR and there's no way I'd ever drive anything that big! I guess DMC felt they needed something to compete with the Suburbans and Expeditions.

    -Frank
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    pushes the envelop

    whats so great about someone pushing around an envelope? oh you brut...
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    As a former Cherokee owner, my initial reaction was positive. But then I saw the GVWR and there's no way I'd ever drive anything that big! I guess DMC felt they needed something to compete with the Suburbans and Expeditions.

    This is not a replacement for the Cherokee, but more a replacement for the larger old Grand Wagoneer. It'll seat 7, with 3-row seating, which the Grand Cherokee can't do.

    Bob
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    According to tender award details on the government eBusiness website, they cost $618,000 - nearly half the cost of a similar order from BMW or Volvo.

    They cost $618,000... that's not for the fleet.

    Read closely - that's for the order. S$618,000 translate to about US$379,000. Divide by 12 vehicles and that's about US$31,500 each.

    Would anybody in their right mind pay US$379,000 for a WRX?
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Tucker - The Man and His Dream:

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096316/
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think the large SUV segment is ready for innovation. If you think about it they are probably the least technologically advanced group out there.

    So if this new model is innovative under that boxy skin, fine, we'll serve a round of humble pie for everyone here (except Bob).

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Thanks, I'll put that in my Netflix queue.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    From what I've read so far, It's pretty much a Grand Cherokee under the skin. Unlike the GC, it does have 3-row seating.

    Innovation? From Jeep—the world's leader in conservative SUV thinking? Surely you jest. ;)

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Storage compartments or a shovel on the back of the seats like the Borrego concept had. ;-)

    -juice
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    Colin: I'm familiar with the history of the Chrysler 300. A good friend of mine since college days had a '63 300J when we first met (I was driving a '66 Mustang at the time). It had an odd, almost retangular steering wheel and a push-button automatic IIRC. I'm still think the current car should be called 300N given the logical progression through the letters (the original 300C was a 1957 model).

    Tucker - The Man and his Dream: A '50 Studebaker was used as a stunt double for a Tucker in a scene where the Tucker was being crash tested (rollover). I think they just changed some trim, tacked on a false rear clip and popped another headlight into the space where the nose bullet fit.

    Jeep Commander: Where's the wood-grained contact paper on the sides? In addition, another opportunity for me to insert a gratuitous Studebaker reference as once again a former Stude model name is appropriated for a Mopar product (following Champ, Challenger and Daytona).

    Ed
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Dad's old Olds Custom Cruiser had that. The 80s were a horrible decade, no? :o)

    -juice
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    Plood was the trim stuff around the contact paper to give the false impression of ash trim. My father's parents had at the time of their deaths in the mid '80s an early '70s Mercury wagon slathered in the stuff. It only had about 25K miles give or take and was in like-new condition; they really babied that car. Hindsight being 20:20 I wish I could've had that car willed to me or bought it from the estate, but I was still in college and wouldn't have been caught dead driving something that looked like that. Little did I know that I would be selling my Mustang for a Honda Accord within a year; I've never owned a two-door car since.

    Ed
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    robr2, "Subaru Crew Cafe" #10405, 22 Mar 2005 11:22 am

    but a WRX there is ~ S$142,000.00
    a BMW 5 Series is about SGD 1/4 million.

    Must be the Gov. discount.

    -Dave
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    OK - I just poked around and found a dealer selling Legacy GT wagons in Singapore for S$118,000. I stand corrected. Sheesh and I thought a Jetta at US$26K was crazy!!
  • grahampetersgrahampeters Member Posts: 1,786
    G'day

    Actually the price sstructure for cars in Singapore is pretty complicated. Suffice to say that a Subaru XT with a base cost ex dealer of about SGD22,000 actually ships out the dealers door at SGD92,000. The taxing structure is heavily built around restricting car ownership as the island is small, the residents wealthy and inclined to crowd the place with cars.

    For my colleagues in Singapore who would drive, say a Mercedes in Malaysia, the standard is a Toyota Corolla.

    This chart gives details of last month's pricing for Singapore cars.

    http://www.onemotoring.com.sg/publish/onemotoring/en/motoring/information/left/buy_a_new_v- ehicle0/car_cost.MainPar.0019.File.tmp/Car_Cost_2004.PDF

    Cheers

    Graham
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=102045

    It's only 2" longer than the Grand Cherokee, but has stepped roof that allows 3" more rear headroom. It also appears to have grab handles above the tail lights, to help access the roof rack.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.autoweek.com/files/specials/2005_newyork/

    If you read the specs on the new Jeep Commander, it's within an inch of the Tribeca in terms of length and width. It is higher, however.

    Bob
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    My father's parents had at the time of their deaths in the mid '80s an early '70s Mercury wagon slathered in the stuff.

    My parents traded in a '66 Thunderbird convertible for a '69 Mercury Colony Park 7 seat station wagon (with the woodgrain contact paper and 429-2V V8).

    DaveM
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    OK so the prices we found are on the road costs with duties and taxes. Thus I stand by the thought that the price is for the entire fleet as I would presume the police would not pay all those taxes.
  • rob_mrob_m Member Posts: 820
    My dad's pride and joy was a '68 Chrysler Town and Country wagon, woodgrain siding, 383 V8, and an FM radio. We used to listen to easy listening and jazz, until us kids turned him on to underground (now classic) rock. Rob M.
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    My parents traded in a '66 Thunderbird convertible for a '69 Mercury Colony Park 7 seat station wagon (with the woodgrain contact paper and 429-2V V8).

    I Googled that - Colony Park was quite the brute. Looking at photos and searching lead me to believe their car was a '71 or '72 Mercury Montego Villager. These same grandparents previously had a '66 Lincoln 4-door convertible.

    Ed
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    searching lead me to believe their car was a '71 or '72 Mercury Montego Villager.

    My brother had two '72 Mercury Montegos; one a 2 dr hardtop, the other a 2 Dr GT fastback. The Montego was "just" a mid size car back in them days. :-)

    DaveM
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=102049
  • ken5ken5 Member Posts: 11
    No reason to look at back because I'm the leader of the pack with the Magnum:-) The "lack" of visibility has not affected me however bying a cookie cutter car/SUV would bore me to death. These Magnums are a blast to drive with the added bonus of being very functional. By buying a Magnum I got in one car a retro stylish look, high performance and cargo carrying capacity utility. Hit my needs squarely on the head.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Commander seems a lot, lot bigger in person, compared to the Tribeca, tell you that. Boxy shape, I guess.

    It takes theatre seating to a new level, the 2nd row is maybe 4" higher than the first, the 3rd is another 4" higher. 2nd row looks like it has good headroom but the 3rd row headrest almost touches the headliner!

    Great view but tall folks just won't fit.

    I met Lutz and shook his hand. :-)

    Also met Carroll Sheldy and got his autograph. Met John Davis as well. Saw a bunch of other famous car folks but those were the only ones I actually met.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Press kit basically shows it's a bigger Grand Cherokee underneath. Even the same 3.7l V6 as standard, and same 4WD systems. Mechanically it was nothing new.

    -juice
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    that runs on CNN.com when I go there (note to self- update spyware)

    "Be Inspired. Be a winner." Couldn't they come up with a slightly more subtle campaign than that?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    At the NY show, right outside the "Tribeca Experience" event, parked on the street was a gorgous black Studebaker Lark VIII 2-door hardtop, fully restored. You would have loved it. There were several other vintage cars there too. It must have been a club of some sort.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Found this on another BMW site:

    Accounting for almost 160,000 units delivered to customers worldwide, the fourth-generation 7 Series is the most successful prestige luxury performance sedan in BMW's history. Since its introduction to the world in 2001, the current 7 Series has already outsold the former model by almost 8 per cent. And with customer deliveries of 57,899 units worldwide in its most successful year so far, 2003, the current BMW 7 Series outperformed its predecessor in that model's best year (1997) by almost 14 per cent.

    In Germany, the BMW 7 Series became the sales leader in the luxury sedan market in 2004. Sales have shown impressive growth in Asia, the Middle East, Eastern Europe, Oceania and Africa where, compared with the former model, sales of the current 7 Series have more than doubled after 38 months in the market. Sales volumes in those regions are catching up with the markets where, by tradition, the BMW 7 Series has always had a strong position - in particular, Europe and North America.

    In the United States, the success of the current 7 Series is unparalleled. In its first three years, it outsold its predecessor's three best years by a significant seven percent.

    This was the first, and arguably the most controversial, of the Bangle-designed BMWs. Obviously not everyone hates his work, judging by the record breaking 7 Series sales.

    Bob
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Bob,

    Interesting information, but that alone doesn't really establish any cause and effect relationship with respect to styling. The 4th generation 7-series made significant changes in many other areas that could be overshadowing any effect from the new look, positive or negative. It could have crossed "The Chasm" in marketing speak.

    What would be more definitive is to learn what factors were weighed by the 160K customers when buying this generation 7-series.

    Ken
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'd like to see market share numbers, particularly in a large market like the US (not home-market Germany).

    That press release is very specific, in order to sound positive. Still, I have to admit I'm surprised.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    it's the best selling 7 Series ever. It appears that the controversial styling wasn't the deal breaker everyone had predicted. You can nit-pick, and find fault with the reporting all you want, but the fact remains it was a successful car for BMW.

    Bob
  • bigelmbigelm Member Posts: 995
    I think people are more infatuated (sp?) over the gadgets of the car than the styling.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.lemonlaw.com/lemonlist.html
  • bigelmbigelm Member Posts: 995
    I'm sure alot has to do with the ABS...
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