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Comments
-Brian
The "maroonish" mahogany color is no longer offered for '07.
Get an Armada.... AWD, plenty of room for the kids and their friends, great handling for it's size, and great for projects at the house and beach
-mike
I actually test drove an Armada, mike. I do like 'em.
Even if I could get over the 13mpg city (you know I'm a cheap bastage when it comes to fueling up), there were a couple of things that bothered me about it.
First is size. It's huge, and remember I'm used to compacts. Stepping up to a Tribeca for that week I had a loaner took an adjustment, but a full-sizer would just be awkward. I need to take it to DC when it snows or rains, because the Miata will stay parked. So it would be a squeeze in my car port (my fireplace infringes upon the space a bit) and at work where the garage spots are small.
Second, I just don't need that much space or capacity. It's overkill. To tow the 1/2 ton or so that I usually haul, you wouldn't even notice it in the Armada. I'd forget the trailer was back there. :surprise:
Third, I use it differently than you, so I noticed some thigns that probably don't bother you at all. My daughter could not reach the rear door handles, which is a nuisance. They're stylish, fine for adults, but useless for kids.
Also, the 2nd row middle seat is stiff as a board. It's a palace for the outboard seats, but sitting on the "hump" is like being in timeout. The nanny would sit there when the 3rd row was folded for luggage, so that location is important, as it would be occupied more often than the 3rd row.
For 3 across in the 2nd row, not many vehicles have a comfy middle seat. Tribeca, Sienna 8 pass, Ford Explorer and Expedition, and oddly enough the Scion xB meet that criteria. From that group only the Tribeca and Sienna are on my short list.
-juice
Poor excuse - she's getting taller everyday. Pretty soon she'll be able to reach just fine.
I test drove it with Bob a year or two ago, and back then she wasn't tall enough. She must've been 5, and she was the tallest person in her Kindergarden class.
Charlie is still pre-K, and he's shorter, so no way could he reach it. He started wanting to open his own door (and close it, and fasten his seatbelt) when he was about 4.
This is a tough decision because I keep my cars for a long time, so I have to buy something that meets my needs now, but will continue to meet those needs 5-6 years from now. By then my oldest will be a teenager.
-juice
So, let's start with what you're looking for:
- wagon or wagon-like capacity?
- AWD?
- Transmission type?
- Budget?
Ken
The 3rd row is 60/40 split so you get the 2 buckets in the 2nd row and the nanny gets a nice comfy seat and 1 of the kids gets part of the 3rd row!
Milage actually isn't as bad as you think, driving short distances in manhattan I get 13.5 mpg and you know how I drive, so you aren't gonna get milage any worse than that!
I liken it to a big mini-van w/o the minivan stigma and it'll out handle and out power most things on the road. I believe 0-60 is in the 7.x seconds. 0-60
-mike
Screw those concerned with SUV/minivan "images." Get what works best for you.
Bob
You remember our test drive, though, you liked it more than I did. It's too hulking big. Overkill for me. Also, equipped the way I'd want it, it might break $40k. First year models had issues with the roof buffeting so I dunno about older used models.
Criteria: bigger than Forester, prefer 3rd row but not absolutely mandatory, prefer AWD, safety a must, strongly prefer stability control and SAC. Would also like heated seats, moonroof, NAV, wifey wants leather so probably that, too. Must be rated to at least tow something, not a lot though. Roof rack a bonus. Payload over 1k.
Must also be fun and prefer a convertible top. Just kidding about those two.
This will be our family car, a trip car mostly, and will RARELY see any city use. Mostly suburbs and trips, so I guess city mileage is not a biggie. I would like good highway mileage and more importantly very good range.
Reliability is very important. I kept my last few cars 7 and 9 years, respectively.
Budget? I didn't want to lend money at all, but by my math I'll only have $19k or so, so I'll probably have to break that rule and borrow some money. But I want a very short loan, 2-3 years tops. Payment under $400. That adds up to an upper limit of $30k including taxes.
Sienna and Tribeca are front-runners right now.
Pilot rode too hard for me, and too much road noise. Size and space are great, though.
Odyssey also had a lot of road noise. I drove that and then got in a Sienna a day later and preferred the Sienna.
RAV4 missed on the wrong-way opening rear gate, plus the 3rd row probably won't even fit my 7 year old.
Santa Fe looked good but loaded up the price is the same as a Tribeca, and I prefer that.
I actually like the Saturn Outlook, but not sure I trust GM reliability on a new model.
Drove a Freestlye and it bored me to tears. Like the space, though. Also very unreliable per CR.
So Sienna's my favorite van of the bunch. I'd try an Entourage before buying, and I'm also waiting to sample the new 3.5l V6 that will make it in to the 07 Sienna, starting next month.
Issues with the Sienna? Price, once you option them out. Even a used XLE with some things I want breaks $30k, it's ridiculous. That's why I may look at a Korean van, Kia or Hyundai.
I like the Tribeca but new ones are too pricey. I want the 7 seater, leather, NAV, so $32k for a new one. But I found a CPO '06 model with 8k miles for $26k, and that's a steal for the equipment level.
Update: a certain female friend in high places at SoA is rumored to head up the CPO program for Subaru, and that would be a HUGE catalyst in favor of that choice.
Tribeca meets all my criteria except I wish it had a bigger gas tank.
Highlander's 3rd row is lame, worse than the Tribeca. The model also looks old and we were bored when we test drove one.
I have to look at a few more vans, and I'll check out some newcomers at the auto show (Outlook, Acadia, Entourage).
Still on The Fence.
-juice
Then again, if you don't plan to tow or go off-road, the minivan is a good choice; just not for me.
There's no emotional attachment to a minivan for me. It's an appliance or tool with 4 wheels, nothing more. I think the reason why you like the Tribeca is because of the emotional aspect. Certainly a minivan is far more practical.
Bob (who used to own a fullsize truck, and has forever regretted not replacing it)
Ken
And if you think that the amount we use does not influence prices just look at what happens to the price of oil with the next announcement about American oil stocks.
Cheers Pat.
Having said that, I still prefer an SUV over a minivan, but that's just me.
As to your point about our dependence on foriegn fuel, you're absolutely correct. That doesn't stop me from not liking big vehicles—since I'm not planning on buying one anytime soon. Maybe, if and when I do get another large vehicle, clean diesels, or something else more eco-friendly will be available.
I guess the point I'm making here is there's nothing wrong with liking large vehicles. They have their place.
Bob
Bob
I almost bought a Sienna this month; I just couldn't get the deal I wanted on a van configured the way I wanted it, and/or the dealers were just horrendous -- lowballing my trade by 4-5K, saying stuff like the 0% financing was available only if I paid MSRP, etc. I also wasn't thrilled with two aspects of the Sienna safety package -- it gets a "poor" whiplash rating from IIHS and "only" a four-star frontal driver's side rating from NHTSA.
But if you're going to jump, and you drive an 07 and decide you can live with the 06 engine, you won't find a better time to buy than in the next couple weeks -- 0% financing or $1500 cash back on 06s is a pretty sweet deal.
In a few years, I won't be able to put off upsizing to a Sienna-type vehicle (I've got a three-year-old and a baby on the way). I hope that Subaru invents a basic people-mover/minivan type vehicle between now and then.
I doubt you'd buy it but if you did you wouldn't regret it at all. Handling is great with the 4-wheel indy suspension, the LE models now all come with Nav/camera/etc. pretty much standard.
For 07 you get E85 version of the Armada standard and the hp is bumped on 87 to 317hp.
As Bob said, and I'll second it, you can never have enough room, whenever you think you have enough, there is always something more you can add in.
By the way last year on the 48hrs in the twisties, my buddy lost all but 2 of the STis in the snowy/icy conditions
I'll put it this way, if I won the lottery tomorrow, and someone said "You can buy any SUV you want" I'd go down and get a new Armada and I've had it for 2 years already. I might get a QX56 if I won the lottery but it's basically the same truck.
-mike
If I were in your shoes, I'd start hunting around for a used 06 Kia or Hyundai minivan. They're much better than the previous generation safety and reliability wise. They depreciate like rocks so a year old unit should be a wise financial choice. And since it's only a long distance hauler/suburban errand runner driving dynamics should not be a huge consideration.
Or look at a used VW Toureg V10 TDI. Great towing capacity. That reliability thing is over rated anyway.
http://www.carspace.com/karens
~Colin
Cheapest new Armada I saw was $34k, for an SE, and that's without a lot of the stuff I want. Figure high 30s for an LE, with tax that's about $10 grand over my price limit for a new one.
MPG in the teens is pretty painful to me personally (I'm with Pat on the oil dependence issue). Off roading is something I'd only have to do on a dare.
Ken: that was a joke, right? :P
I actually like the new CR-V's interior, but it doesn't have a 3rd row, isn't particularly sporty, and just doesn't stand out in any way. It's a competent small SUV and I'm looking for something different. Plus that underbite, I guess I could get over that if I loved the rest of the package. I'd sooner get a Vue Greenline hybrid for $23k, now that GM has a 5/100 warranty. But both are small.
I'd love to see the '09 Forester but probably can't wait that long, and don't expect it will grow enough.
Bob/Lucien: I get the emotional thing, in fact I've often told people don't buy a vehicle you don't love. But...this is a family car first; I commute in something else. Time to be unselfish, and I'm realizing I'll have to make some compromises on the emotional aspect.
smitty: I realize that on the Sienna I may have to sacrifice AWD. I'd like an XLE or even an XLE Limited, though, and what I'm finding are inflated used prices. I will keep looking, and I would consider the '07 with the much improved 3.5l engine. More power and more fuel economy than the 3.3l.
-juice
You know something, I appreciate my friends here calling me on that, it forces me to think rationally and truly justify my decisions.
The one thing that drew me to it was that I happened to find one with everything I wanted for less than expected. With NAV, heated leather, moonroof, 6CD, and all that it was under $26k for a CPO.
The cheapest CPO Sienna XLE for the same year was over $30k. And it still had less equipment. Out of my price range. Even the 05s would cost more.
This is a case when lower resale is a good thing, for me at least.
I guess I have to decide if I want all the toys (heated leather, NAV, 6CD) or the extra space, and just settle for a plain ol' Sienna LE with stability.
Left over MDX? I've heard they can be as low as $30k. But that's without a lot of options I'd want. And they may be gone by the time I buy. Still might be a compelling choice. I love the new ones, but we're $10 grand over my limit now.
Pathfinder, maybe? Did they fix it so the 3rd row reclines? Not sure if I want a live axle given I don't need to go off road.
4Runner? Hated the 3rd row packaging, and again probably overkill for my needs.
I will drive either a Sedona or an Entourage, too.
-juice
So gotta line up test drives for the CX9, Outlook, and Sedona.
-juice
There is one older cutlass coupe in there, an omni, and what looks like a yellow AMC Pacer 2 door.
#69 Early 70's Ford Falcon
#8 mid seventies Pontiac LeMans
#99 1976 Caprice Coupe
"Pounder"- no freaking clue
Pounder's lil friend- no idea
Orange P/U- '68-ish F150
#825- early 90's Chevy PU
#89- Omni (easy)
#00- too small to be a Pacer. I'm going to have to go with Dodge Omni pick-up truck, as I seem to remember such a thing existing at one point
Black Beauty- Pinto wagon
#12- Cutlass 4 door
#27- Crown Vic, then known as LTD.
Ken
Oh, BTW, all you have to do is throw the X-mas tree in the bed, and off you go... No straping on to the roof...
Bob
As for reliability in 04, you are probably looking at the brake issues, that held down the reliability of the 04s, but that's pretty much been fixed through recalls.
-mike
-mike
-mike
I responded to your e-mail but have not heard back from you. I'm wondering If I copied your e-mail incorrectly.
Charlie
http://blogs.edmunds.com/?14@@.ee965fb
Bob
I have given thought to a Crew Cab pickup, but mostly because of the beach house. In terms of frequency, we go there probably 12-15 times a year, and to be able to toss the beach chairs in the bed and not worry about sand all over the interior would be a plus.
So in a way, a Titan Crew Cab would be more useful to our family than an Armada would. I'd probably use the bed more often than I'd use the 3rd row.
But...not sure I like the idea of an open bed the rest of the time (which is most of the time).
Also, I tend not to like the way big vehicles drive. Plus the gas mileage issue.
-juice
-juice
If this is indeed a consideration, I'd look at the Ridgeline, as it's perfect for that role of family car/truck.
Bob
Bob
If they take Subaru bucks, that would be way under my price cap.
Also found a used 05 Sienna XLE Limited for $27k, and it was loaded to the gills with NAV and even a DVD player for the kids. It's 2 years old though and has more miles. Still, it's a no-compromises option.
-juice
(Just my 2 cents of course)
-Frank
So while I may not need super-sizing, I probably do need large fries. Medium is a squeeze at times.
I'm going to the airport on the 20th, and I know we can't all fit, not with luggage. So I'm getting a ride from my cousin, who has a van.
-juice
OOOH OOOH OOOH - I have a thought!! Get yourself a Sprinter low top passenger van!!
Great fuel economy, able to cart the entire bunch to the beach, and you can become a Euro marque snob just like me!!
Mark
Hey, how did you know my waistline is big???
Seriously though, I see your point of not having too much space, however, knowing Juice, he would put the space to use. For instance, I picked up a used 42" TV this past weekend that was huge, from a friend, popped it in the back and it stayed there for 4 days, even while transporting 4 passengers around in the truck.
Also knowing Juice has a summer home, makes a big honking truck even more justifyable, having had a summer home my entire life, I know how much of a PITA it can be to have to cut things out of a trip to the summer house or to tell the kids "sorry there isn't any room to take your friends with us this weekend" etc.
I guess I always like to get the most bang for my buck, that's why I went with the Armada even though there is just me and my wife, we often travel with our friends and between the boat and race car, the towing is always a help.
Also don't forget if you have something big, it means you can take less cars with more people in them, this is the case often times on trips with friends, rather than taking 2 cars on a trip we all travel together in 1 car, this cuts down on gas burned, adds to the overall enjoyment of the trip, and also less personal wear and tear as we can change up drivers more often.
-mike
Yup that's the idea
-mike
It ended up being the right choice because the tickets cost far more than their allowance.
I'm off on the 20th, coming back in early January, around the 8th.
-juice
If I had a single family home at the beach, I'd be much more inclined to get something like that Titan Bob mentioned.
I don't really do much hauling to/from the condo, it's very low maintenance. I moved some furniture back and forth by borrowing Bob's trailer but honestly I don't expect to have to do that again in the forseeable future.
We do want room for the kids to be able to take a friend later, that's sort of the point of a van or 3 row SUV. The nanny goes with us for the week we spend there in August, but most of the time she doesn't come. Still, that actually works against a 5 seater Crew Cab.
I'm still getting used to mike referring to his "wife". Cheers. :shades:
-juice
Titan is nice but still solid rear axle which is great for hauling but gives a bit harsher ride when not towing.
Saw those pics of the 08 Armada, look pretty good although I'll probably have to wait til the 2010 comes out in 2009 for me to get rid of the the current truck.
-mike
I never got it
Send it to the same name but use comcast.net instead.
[sticks head out]