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Comments
Bob
-mike
My BlackBerry has my e-mail, calendar, all my contacts, cell phone, SMS, the works.
Loved the Hendrix doll.
-juice
Wife got an offer from Saturn to test drive an Aura, $25 gift card. So she sent me, as she knows I'll go.
Went to get in and banged my head. Whoops. Those sleek door lines really eat in to head room. Interior is a bit plasticky, some seams are pretty bad. Overall it looks OK, but no better than the Mercury Milan I drove a while back.
I decided to drive the Outlook instead, as it's on my list and a sedan isn't. Plus I don't want to hit my head every time I get in a vehicle.
Outlook is impressive, but there are some potentially deal-killing flaws. More on those later...
It's very sturdy, substantial. HUGE space inside, wow. Comfy front row, kudos to the design team. The control stalks are a bit fussy, but there's plenty of storage and the seats are nice and high.
4 power outlets. Yee haw. One for the GPS, one for the cell phone, and nicely hidden. Another in the back for the kids to watch a DVD. A 4th in the cargo area. Amen, brother.
It drives big, but well. Smooth ride, much better than the Pilot, quieter than the Odyssey even. Handling? Didn't push too hard, but it leaned a lot and didn't seem eager to play. Steering felt just right, though I felt some torque steer tugging as this was a FWD model (I asked for something under $30k to test).
So, what did I not like? Wide pillars block the view to the sides, you can't see behind you at all due to the high windows, and the seats in the 2nd and 3rd rows are just uncomfortable. The lack of comfort is puzzling since the 1st row felt great. The cushions are just too low to the ground, no thigh support, and the middle seat is stiff and basically unliveable even for a short period.
So you have 8 seats but only 4 of them are comfortable. Sheesh. I can seat 4 comfortably in my Forester, and this thing felt three times as big.
I think I could live with the dynamics, but Saturn lost a sale in the visibility and seat comfort categories. Backup sensors are only offered on the higher end models, add that plus AWD and we're talking 38k or so. And Saturn won't deal.
Tribeca has a ton less room, but the rear seat is actually more comfortable and meets my needs better.
By the way, my brother did pay me back in full, so I may start trying to sell the Forester soon. Then I will be shopping actively.
-juice
The Acadia had the same flaws as the Outlook - poor visibility and lame seats. Leather didn't help. Price is higher and the design felt a bit more masculine. Oh well, I tried.
So then I looked at the G6, the one with the nifty folding hard top. I went mostly for a test-fit, to see if I thought my kids would fit back there, as this would be a drop-top to replace the Miata, not the Forester. Not sure which I will replace first, but probably the family hauler.
Any how, surprise, but space in the back seat ain't bad. I think the kids would fit there just fine, at least if it wasn't a long trip.
Another great feature - no B-pillar means visibility was fantastic. Best I've ever seen (literally) in a convertible. You can change lanes with confidence because you see everything. Even to the rear, backup and see it all. Perhaps this was accentuated by the contrast to the Outlook that was like driving blind-folded (I actually backed in to the curb at one point in that vehicle).
The interior is pure G6, a little cheesy but not bad. I could do without the chrome. It has the 3500 pushrod engine, a little coarse but plenty peppy, so the 3.9l is unnecessary.
Torque steer was an issue, so the 3.9l might only make that worse. I chirped the tires from a dead stop without meaning too, perhaps short gearing caused that. The tug on the wheel reminded me too much of our old 626, though. It didn't really want to go where you pointed it.
The most concern, though, came from a loud rattle from the top, right above my head. The seams looked OK, and they sealed wind noise well, but there was some cowl shake over bumps. Not good when the vehicle is brand new.
The salesman said he sells many of them and had never heard that rattle. But of course you'd expect him to say that, he's trying to make a sale.
Cargo space is pretty bad, and horrible if you leave space for the top. Forget about even a carry-on bag, unless it's soft and not very tall.
For some reason, though, I liked it more than I thought I would. I think I liked the idea of having a drop-top that functions well as a coupe. This didn't seem like a particularly great one, but it was a functional package - good power, looks, 4 reasonable seats, and you can see out of the thing.
Ride was decent, handling seemed OK. Steering a little soft, again I didn't get to push it much. Brakes were good, I had to do a hard stop at a short yellow light.
I think that if I do get a 4 seat convertible, I will look for one with a folding hard top. The G6 could use a bit of polishing, but this is not bad for a v1.0. One thing they should fix right away is that all the hinges in the trunk are too exposed.
I may go try an Eos, now that the segment is heating up. Plus Chrysler will hop on the bandwagon this summer with a new Sebring.
-juice
Yes or No? Just roof? Or neither? :confuse:
I kinda like the roof one I think. I also think the waist spoiler could be doofy on a car making 100whp :P
The roof spoiler completes the back end and also provides a little shade for the cargo area. Not a big deal but given it's free I'd install it.
-juice
When the Miata was damaged I was miffed that they would not paint my lower sides white, because it was an insurance job. They're black now, and when you paint them body color it visually lowers the car and looks much better.
-juice
Stay tuned...
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/industry/new-laws-pave-the-way-for-toyota-to-- - - - acquire-subaru/
Bob
I just hope they strangle the character out of future Subies. I'd hate to see a FWD, tranverse-engined, boring lineup of cars at the Subaru dealer.
-juice
Bob
I wouldn't mind seeing a minivan based on the Sienna, but with a Subaru drivetrain. Maybe the new 3.6l and VDC? Toyota could drop the AWD Sienna.
-juice
Perhaps they would make Subaru more performance oriented? Actually, I'd love to see Toyota's 3.5L v6 dropped into a Tribeca or even an outback. It's a great engine along with the 6spd tranny. (Of course, I'd rather see a 3.5L boxer 6 myself- but I'd be willing to take the tradeoff)
I don't think Toyota needs a clone division, but could take advantage of Subaru's niche market.
Just my $0.02
tom
They may be able to design future platforms to accept both types of drivetrains, and then let both Subaru and Toyota share a platform.
A lot of people say the Legacy is too small, they could use the Camry chassis but keep it AWD/boxer.
-juice
Bob
A Camry Outback? It would be nice if it were a little bit bigger, that's true. It might give the Legacy/OB a better chance at moving a little upmarket.
tom
Oh, the humanity...
Bob
-mike
In a couple months, the new Subaru 3.6L boxer will be in the Tribeca. The new Subie diesel H4 is sounding very good as well... that'd be outstanding in the Outback. Subaru doesn't need Toyota's engines.
On another note... when large corporations swallow smaller corporations, it generally means less variety for consumers, at least down the road. It's less competition. I like a Toyota partnership, not Toyota ownership. Subaru has a different philosophy. There's no way that could be maintained over a long period of time by an outside company. Even if the current bigwigs at Toyota would keep Subie as is, eventually you'll get others in power at Toyota who either wouldn't care or wouldn't understand the appeal. The world needs more independent companies, not more power and decisions in the hands of a few dominators.
OK... off the soapbox now.
Transverse V6s sit on top of the front axle, rather than in front of it. It would be an enormous change for Subaru to accomodate powertrains that way. The low center of gravity and low hood lines would be lost.
At that point, why bother? Just slap a Subaru badge on the next Highlander and stop making Subarus altogether.
-juice
Who knows, maybe the next Highlander and Tribeca will share the same platform! :surprise:
Speaking of next models, the next impreza/STi looks, well, like a Pontiac GTO. :confuse:
I'm not sure if it's better- it is more conservative I guess.
tom (Yes, I still prefer Subies over Toyotas)
Like Bob said, who cares if they share A/C compressors? Or stereos, NAV systems, etc. So long as they don't mess with the powertrains, Subarus will continue to have character and I'll keep shopping for 'em.
-juice
They are apparently playing in the Grammys and are supposed to announce a reunion tour.
Can't wait to hear the official news: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16469727/
Ken
-juice
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AgwgE7wvcs
they did audio segments a few years back, but with youtube why not make a vid?
~ColinL
While some might call that a waste of server space, I needed the laugh and lift given the way the week has gone. 16 minutes reasonably well spent. Thanks!
Steve
I love the singing when he talks about 12 second turbo spool up guy, or whatever.
-juice
Jim
Thanks,
Ed
Bob
I didn't make it, but I'm definitely going to NY. April 6-15 are the dates.
-juice
Toyota RAV4, Mitsu Outlander - the third-row seats in these are ridiculous; I don't even think my three-year-old would have adequate legroom in there. What's the point? Some kind of bragging rights?
Those two, along with the other small utes/crossovers on the market, have followed the "styling trumps utility" trend. None of them have the excellent outward visibility of the Forester, which I truly hope remains in its next iteration.
I crawled around and under the Forester Sports 2.5 XT just to compare it to my XT. Pros: I wish I could've had mine in World Rally Blue. Cons: Sports XT gets heated seats, but not heated mirrors or windshield strip? I think I'd rather have my mirrors heated than have turn signals in them; after all it's not like I'd use a Forester to tow a yacht. Neither: Based only on what I've read online, maybe I'm not missing VDC as much as I thought I might.
The car that really captured my eye was the Volvo C30. I guess it's mainly because the old 1800ES is on my short list of cars I'd like to own someday, and the C30's hatch brings it back to mind. I could probably even live with the 2+2 configuration and limited cargo capacity. That said, if it drives at all like the S40s I've driven - and there's nothing in the specs to lead me to believe it wouldn't - then it'd be a disappointment. I think I'd only be happy with it if it came in a C30R AWD version. Even then odds are it wouldn't match Subaru's reliability...
Saturn Aura - I really wanted to like this car too, but the dash was weirdly glossy and, on the higher-trim model (XR?), the leather seats had a really bizarre embossed texture to them - kind of like an old high school yearbook cover.
Speaking of Saturn: the Sky (and its Pontiac Solstice sibling) get my vote for worst cupholder location ever.
I also popped into a Hyundai Sonata and Tiburon and was impressed with the improvements in their fit and finish.
Money and family no object? I'd take a Porsche Cayman. I can't remember a car (not even my XT) fitting me so well. Maybe in 15 years when my son's out of high school; Caymans will probably be as cheap then as 928s are now. Ah well, I can dream... :P
Ed
I'm resisting the auto show this year I think. In fact, for the first time in my life I have kind of let my interest in the Auto world slide a bit. I let my subscriptions all go.... I don't know why really. I guess the last year has been so busy and a bit anxiety filled, I sort of lost interest.
The main reason I went to the auto show this year was that I had an afternoon in Center City Philadelphia to kill. There's always that "what would I buy if my current car was totaled today?" angle, but I suspect I'd do the same as you..or else track down my first Forester.
Ed
Caymen: Not enough there really, at the price point, you might as well get a 911. Oh yeah and saw 2 at a track day, both were smoking with some kind of oil issues, not a good sign.
-mike
Haven't seen the 3rd row options on the RAV4 or Outlander. Perhaps they're rare? Either that or they were so pitiful that I dismissed them and forgot all about the option.
I do think there is a psychological advantage to having the option, even if friends of mine that have them never use them.
Agree on the visibility issue. The whole industry had headed towards the "chopped" looked, i.e. tall door lines and short windows. Blame the 300C maybe for starting the trend. The other thing is the upswept D-pillar, which the RAV4, Outlander, and even Tribeca all have.
Perhaps because designers know technology can compenstate (backup sensors and cams), they take more freedom with the pen.
C30 looks OK, I guess, but I'd rather have a Mini, or even a MazdaSpeed3 if it's FWD.
Aura - felt the same way you did. Could not believe it beat the Camry for most of the awards. I banged my head trying to get in, the door line is so low. The Toyota is nicer inside, has more room, and the hybrid is intelligent, vs. Saturn's lame solution. The auto media really is anti-Toyota.
Hyundai impressed me, too. I was looking at vans, though. The Entourage is every bit the equal of the Sienna, in fact better in some ways. Look at the Mercedes-Benz style power seat controls, with memory by the way. Power sliding doors, tailgate, NAV, backup cam, heated leather/mirrors/wiper de-icer. It's like they took a page from Subaru's book on content - in fact they even use the same model designation - Limited.
Also nice is that so much is standard - 6 air bags, stability control, the most torque of any van, best brakes (per Edmunds comparo using a Kia), the list goes on. And get this - $25 grand buys a LTD. Toyota wants $27k for cloth, no heat, no power tailgate. Even on the LE model you have the get package 3 just to get rear disc brakes and stability control. Under $26k and it's drums and lacking VSC - ridiculous.
If we get a van I will give one a serious look, at least get my wife to try one out. They're that impressive.
-juice
juice: Recent discussion with my wife, in short: as long as she has her Pilot or something of similar size, I am free to stay in my Forester or something of similar size. I've reached the conclusion that I don't really ever want anything bigger than a Legacy for a daily driver. However I do enjoy the carrying capacity of the Forester and so would have a hard time going back to a car with a conventional trunk.
Re Toyota: I think you answered your own question:
The auto media really is anti-Toyota.
Also nice is that so much is standard - 6 air bags, stability control, the most torque of any van, best brakes (per Edmunds comparo using a Kia), the list goes on. And get this - $25 grand buys a LTD. Toyota wants $27k for cloth, no heat, no power tailgate. Even on the LE model you have the get package 3 just to get rear disc brakes and stability control. Under $26k and it's drums and lacking VSC - ridiculous.
Part of it is the media always scrutinizing the biggest gorilla in the room, but the pricing and forced packaging taken to extremes in some ways earns that scrutiny.
As for the Mini: The only one I've driven had a sunroof, and with that open, the glare off the painted dash and gauges was intolerable. The big central speedo ended up looking like the clock around Flavor Flav's neck. The new Mini combines the speedo with radio controls, even worse in my book.
Ed
They do go a-la-carte, but that should not affect the awards the media hands out.
-juice
I've driven a 911 cabrio w/AWD, best car I've ever driven on the track!
-mike
The Bad news is that in both models I sat in, shifting the car into 5th gear is almost impossible to do smoothly. In both cars it was all too easy to move the gear lever too far to the right and not find any gear. It was perhaps one of the worst gear shifts that I can recall.
Bob
-juice
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/02/15/gto-a-real-tire-shredder/
Bob
-juice