Subaru Crew Cafe

tsy

I have been away at a conference for the past few days so I am late to enter into this.

As someone who has owned a few minivans and full sized SUVs, I will say that the ulitimate hauler and practical vehicle is the Minivan. It will hold a ton more than an Armada (especially with the fold flat seats), is more comfortable (in general) and gets significantly better gas mileage. You're lucky to get 13mpg in a full sized ute, but a Sienna will get over 20mpg.

The advantages of the SUV are towing and off road capability (but seriously, who ever takes advantage of this? 1% of owners?). And it's more sexy than a minivan.

Mike uses his as a tow vehicle and so a minivan wouldn't work for him. And it's a great truck (almost bought one myself)

I do think that we as Americans should be more responsible with our natural resources, but that's my own opinion. I don't know that I really need my full sized SUV to have 400hp and do 0-60 in 4.9 sec (and I wonder if it's safe to have people driving their SUVs like sports cars)

Juice, it sounds like you need something not full sized but more mid sized. It seems like the B9 is a decent fit. What about a Honda Ridgeline. Very comfortable, lots of interior room and the in bed trunk is very cool. Will also tow 5000 lbs which is about all you need, right?

I will say our Pilot is a very good minivan/suv compromise. It can carry 8 adults/children, hold a fair amount of stuff, and tow 4500 lbs. It's a little noisy but not overly intrusive. And it can be had for under 30K with leather (not with nav though).

Kia is coming out with a short version of their minivan which might fit your ticket nicely also.

One final consideration is to buy a full sized SUV 1-2 years used. They are slow movers and you could buy one for a song.

Or just stay on the fence. (kinda lonely though, isn't it?)

Good luck, Juice

tom

paisan

You are right, most folks don't need em or use em for what they are built for The one thing I give the Armada over mini-vans and other full size SUVs is the power and handling. With it's 4-wheel indy suspension it handles like a big outback, and with 317hp it's pretty zippy. Kinda the best of both worlds other than milage, but any sports car is gonna get poor milage. I've been quite impressed with the milage no less than 13.3 in the city and about 20 mpg on the highway. Towing I get knocked down to about 14mpg on the highway at 75 mph. If I dropped down to 60 or 65 I could probably knock that back up.

-mike

ateixeira

Yeah, I've been doing some research and vans definitely have tons of space. A Sienna has significantly more space than even the Suburban and Expedition EL. 50% more than an Armada, too (148.9 cubes vs. 96.9), with a lower lift to boot.

Researched the 07 Sienna and it gets a 51hp boost (more than 20 lb-ft more as well), and EPA mileage figures go up to 20/27 for the 3.5l, up 1 mpg on both city and highway cycles. 21-22 mpg is realistic, which ain't bad at all.

The LE with package 3 is currently running just over $27k at Fitz, but should come down to near $26k eventually. That'll have 2 power sliding doors, stability/traction control, 6CD, alloys, etc. No leather, GPS, or NAV though. Those send prices skyrocketing near $40 grand.

I could save a bit with the 06 but power, torque, and mpg are high on the priority list and the wife liked the idea of the power sliders, so I'd pay extra for the 07.

Thought about the off road thing and now that we can walk to the beach from our condo, the need to drive on the beach, or get a 4x4 for fishing/camping, is a pipe dream. So you're right about that.

I'd prefer the AWD but that's another price hike plus a mileage penalty. Plus Toyota's system is reactive and this isn't the type of vehicle where you even talk about performance or understeer. And...we'll still have the Legacy.

Tribeca is still on the list, probably CPO to get all the toys. Subaru Bucks, my comfort level and knowledge of Subarus, plus Patti's help in the CPO program would be pluses.

Ridgeline: hadn't thought about that, but even though I find it interesting in many ways, I'm not sure I'd want to own one. Not even sure why, it just doesn't float my boat.

Pilot: tried one, and the ride was a tad harsh. It also costs more than the Ody with less space. I prefer the Ody slightly, actually.

Kia/Hyundai vans: wife used her veto power on these. While I know they've come a long way and wouldn't hesitate, perception lags behind reality and we're not far enough on that time line for her to accept it. A shame really because the value there is incredible.

I'll still "browsing" and won't really start shopping until the money's in the bank, i.e. my brother paid up.

-juice

ateixeira

Had a very close call yesterday coming home. I was in the Miata and a doe dashed across the road.

To give you an idea, I was following the car in front of me with the 2 seconds or so normal gap you're supposed to allow.

The deer was looking the other way (away from the road), but it quickly turned around to face the road and crossed it, all after the car in front of me had passed!

I reached for the horn and braked hard, and just missed her, it was so close! :surprise:

I'm happy with my own reaction time, because if I had not been paying attention there would be a deer in my lap. The torso is right about at me eye level, too.

Whew.

-juice

tsy

Wow, you're lucky. Don't people die from having deer come through the windshield? (I've never seen it- I think it's an east coase deer thing. )

But maybe in the miata you would have just gone through the deers legs.

glad you're ok, Juice.

tom

tsy

I was at a Neuromodulation conference in Vegas this past week and got a Mustang convertible as a rental car. They were going to give me a Taurus and when I asked for something else they offered me the convertible (I guess they're not real popular in the winter)

I must say for the money it's a fun car. It has a decent amount of pick-up and is reasonably assembled (for an american car). Very different from a miata though- a comfortable cruiser. I think it would be a great car if it was actualy refined.

Anyway, it sure beat having a Dodge Caliber!

tom

ateixeira

How's the back seat? Inhabitable? Visibility?

Eventually I gotta get a 4 seater to replace the Miata. 2-3 years from now, no way are we taking on 2 payments.

-juice

ateixeira

The top was up. Not sure, the deer might roll over the car since it's so low. Glad I didn't have to find out! :sick:

We see more and more now, even in urban areas (this was on Canal Road near Georgetown). Sprawl I guess, as they are building new houses in every nook and cranny they can find, including urban areas and beside major highways. :mad:

-juice

tsy

Well, I'd think about an M6 convertible.

Actually, I never sat in the back seat, but it's ok for kids (my kids did just fine for a few hours).

Visibility is ok- was not an issue.

I think for a fun car it would be ok, but I don't know if I could live with it on a daily basis. Kinda like Craig's S2000.

Maybe you need a big brush guard for your Miata in case you come acroos more deer!

tom

once_for_all

had an acquaintance that hit a horse with his Miata.

No one survived. Man, horse, and Miata are all history.

Extremely sad.

John

hammerhead

Just got back from Disneyville late last night - great trip!
Crammed a LOT of activity into 4 days - maybe more on all that later. But for now, speaking of rental cars, we had a Chevy Uplander minivan (base model - not a lot of electromechanical bling).. All in all, not bad, but after only 11k on the clock, it had a distinct clunk in the tranny between 1st & 2nd, and the brakes were not well modulated. Steering was good, power seemed OK, seats needed heaters & lumbar support.

But thanks to LA traffic, the mantra "there's no place like home" rings truer today than when we left

Cheers!
Paul

paisan

"Maybe you need a big brush guard for your Miata in case you come acroos more deer! "

Check out http://www.ecb.com.au/ for brushguards for all kinds of cars including most sedans.

-mike

paisan

Hey All, I posted this over in the Events section but figured I'd also post it here as well, basically for anyone who doesn't know it's a 48hr drive that we've been doing for the past 5 years, this will be the 6th one! We started it the January after 9/11 and raised money toward one of the 9/11 funds. We travel throughout the tri-state and sometimes more than that over 800 miles for the weekend and it's kinda like a walk-a-thon, where you can get people to sponsor you per mile or just for completing it. We have a ball. Check out http://iacinc.selfip.com/48hrs/48hrs-2007/ for details and pics from previous years events.

-mike

ladywclass

I know "we" thought Subarus were impressive ... but ...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/12/13/ap/strange/mainD8LVNKV80.shtml

rsholland

I too had a close call last week, but not quite as close as yours. Still I had to brake quickly. The problem with deer, if you see one, there's a good chance there may be more there too.

Bob

rsholland

Tom, you're correct. Minivans are for left-brain people and SUVs are for right-brain people. I just happen to be more right-brained than left-brained.

Having said that, the largest vehicle in our stable is a Forester, which is decidedly left-brained. It's my wife's, which explains that.

Bob

p0926

A 16 year-old going 142 mph at night... there's a recipe for disaster. They better suspend his license! (In many states he would have been arrested on the spot)

-Frank

ateixeira

Who gives their 16 year old a WRX? That's not a good starter car, way too much power for the inexperienced.

My kid will get a safe beater that can barely go 75.

-juice

robr2

My kid will get a safe beater that can barely go 75.

I've got my eye on some Volvo 240's. Around here in New England they run forever and there's no way a kid can get in trouble in one of those. Unless they take it off road which I heard a story about....

paisan

I'm gonna do what my dad did...

Get me a car from the year I was born!

First car was a 1974 Olds 98 Hardtop w/455 Rocket. It was fast, but safe and I learned a lot about cars with that car! Especially fixing them and doing tune-ups!

-mike

ateixeira

Let's see, my oldest will turn 16 about 9 years from now, in 2016. By then clean diesels will be all over the place. Maybe a used 2014 Forester 2.0D, the smaller of the two diesels in the engine lineup. :shades:

-juice

ladywclass

yeah .. yeah .. complain about getting a car from a year that happened after i graduated from high school ... jeeze ...

tsy

What if it's a supercharged minivan with coilovers, low profile wheels/summer tires, dual exhaust, painted jet black with limo tint that could embarrass a Porsche boxster?

Is that a right-brain person who wants to be left brained? Or a left-brain person who want to be right? Or is it just hair brained.

I remember Kenny brown did something like this to a Ford Windstar. I think mazda tuned one of their minivans up too.

I think you could do quite a bit to the Toyota 3.5L AWD to make it quite fast!

tom

tsy

It's just everything other than the engine will break first! I remember always helping my friend with a 244 fixing one thing or another. I think it was weekly, which is probably why we're still good friends!

I plan on buying my son an old oldsmobile or buick. He's got his eyes on a mustang though. (because he know's he's not getting a WRX!)

tom

jfl

My kids don't get their own car...they share the cars we have (three). However, the Subie is with me so the girls have to work it out who gets what with Mom. :shades:

They're now away at school and don't need cars so things are sweet.

Jim

jeffmc

juice - seen the new Edmunds review of the '08 Saturn Outlook? They were practically drooling over it. Might be a little large for you, but it sounds like they did a good job. If the B9 Tribeca doesn't change much and a Subie van doesn't happen, I may have to consider this Saturn or a CX-9, neither of which seem like bad alternatives.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=118803?tid=edmun- - - ds.il.home.photopanel..2.*#10

(Are you listening, SOA/FHI?)

jeffmc

Of course, there are bound to be jokes about Outlook crashing. :P

rob_m

HA! My son has his eyes on my Mustang, also. Sad thing, in 5 years, he will probably be driving it. Rob M.

ateixeira

Yeah, saw that, but again I'm a cheapskate and what really stood out to me was 15.5 mpg and that's with FWD! :surprise:

Their vans got 17-18mpg, and those were the less efficient ones. Figure 19-20 for the better vans. And the new 3.5l in the Sienna does even better. That should mean a pretty big discrepancy.

Also, the Outlook was $35k well equipped. So it ain't cheap. I still like 'em and will at least check one out. 4500 lbs towing, tons of room, useful 3rd row, not bad.

Their Tribeca only got 16.3 but I managed 20.7 the week I had one. That's about my lower limit for gas mileage.

Hmm, the Outlook does have a 22 gallon tank, so actually range might be the same as the Subie.

Like I said, I'll probably check it out.

-juice

lucien2

and the tuned version will be Outlook Express. And the hood scoop will be the In Box.....

jeffmc

Too funny, Lucien.

wannascoobie1

I am looking at getting a 2002 WRX, and have a found a clean, well maintained one owner, but it has 98,000 miles! Should that scare me away? What maintainence will need to be done soon? Any help would be greatly appreciated. The car has been a one owner, same dealership maintained, on schedule with no visible problems or wear, it looks practically new. The dealership is down to $10,000 on the price, which started at $12,895. Am I going to have to put $2,000 into maintainence (timing belt, etc.) very soon, so would it be better to pay more for a lower mileage car.
Tell what you think.

Thanks!

jfl

go to subaru.com and there should be maintenance schedules on their website. i'm pretty sure you are right about needing to replace the timing belt at 105k. in addition, you will be due for the 105k mile maintenance...but major tune-ups are every 30k and minors are every 15k, so even if you buy one with lower mileage you will still need the tune-ups. they aren't difficult, i'll be doing my 150k after christmas.

good luck,

jim

rob_m

I would offer 10k for the car if they throw in the 105k maintenance and the timing belt. Also have the water pump replaced while the TB is off. Rob M.

ateixeira

One guy in the Legacy thread just mentioned he has an ex-post office Legacy with 442k miles, something like that. We saw a Forester with 250k miles on E-Bay, too.

If they're taken care of, the miles wouldn't scare me away. Some say a car with ultra-low miles that sat too long is actually worse.

-juice

wannascoobie1

Thanks for the info guys. The one negative detail that I left out is that it is an "Automatic".
I'll see what kind of maintainence I can get out of them, and maybe drag my feet a little longer, to see how motivated they are to sell.

ateixeira

That might explain the price. There's a bit more lag with the auto, drive it to be sure you're OK with that.

The AWD system is actually more sophisticated, since it gets VTD. AH (a former owner) also said the spring rates were higher, for whatever reason.

-juice

bat1161

Couple of weeks ago I rented a car out in Michigan. It was supposed to be a compact, but when I got to the desk I was given an Outback. When they asked me if I minded, I replied that's what I drive at home (except mine is the H6, not the 4). Not too bad a car, however I did miss the extra HP.

Mark

ateixeira

Check out how the Forester manages to avoid a crash. :surprise:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a293u2g27CE&mode=related&search

-juice

wannascoobie1

I did drive it, and it did kinda reminded me of the 86' Thunderbird Turbo-Coupe I had, from a roll, you step on the pedal and get wah-wah-wah.....(hit 3,000 rpm)= Wow-wow-wow. I am kinda disapointed in the shifter, paddle style (up/down, +/-) would be alot nicer. It seems too easy to skip gears with the straight up or down style. And you really have to keep it wound up to stay in the powerband.
As for the price, it has been at the dealer for almost 2 months now, originally listed at 12,895, now listed at 11895. I made an email offer of $10,000, they came back with 10750. I waited another week with no reply, and they just emailed me back accepting 10000. I'm just nervous about the miles (plus it's really hard to convince the wife that 100,000 miles is no big deal with these cars) and the age old drawback of another car payment after three years without one, is making me drag my feet. The price is right in the ballpark where I wanted to be though.
I want a daily driver (40+ miles daily), but I want to have fun again, so I know that the WRX is a perfect fit.

locke2c

if you are going to put >40 miles on it per day, surely this is not the car for you. get something with fewer miles.

no car is immune to mileage.

~Colin

kens

Wow. Ground clearance and quick thinking helped that driver out!

Ken

rsholland

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=tochigi,+japan&ie=UTF8&z=14&ll=36.459397- ,139.913807&spn=0.029753,0.086002&t=k&om=1

kens

Kewl! I didn't realize how close it was to my mom's home town. If you scroll up the map about 4 miles, you'll see the city of Utsunomiya.

I must have passed by the track hundreds of times in my life without ever knowing it!

Ken

rsholland

Ken, here's more on the Tochigi test track.

http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/tw/tochigi.htm

Bob

lucien2

I want to get Kirst a great cordless drill for Christmas. Any recommendations? It needs to handle just about anything.

mod- took 3 time to log in tonight. The last time I hit ENTER too fast, forgot to enter password, and.... I was logged in! :confuse:

kens

Thanks. I guess it was opened only in 1989 so I probably only passed by it tens of times, then! Still, makes me smile that I've been so close (but yet so far).

Ken

kens

I purchased a Panasonic 12V cordless drill a couple years ago and absolutely love it. I chose it over the usual Dewalts, Makita and Bosch after reading through various reviews. Panasonic makes some of the best tools -- excellent quality and durability. The 12V model isn't overly heavy but makes about as much torque as the 14.4V models.

You probably can get a higher voltage model now as prices typically go down over time.
Here's one comparison.

Ken

leo2633

I'd go with the Ryobi 18V. It's relatively inexpensive and you can add their other 18V tools as you see fit, plus, the batteries fit all of the 18V tools in their extensive power tool line. I've had mine for about 5 years and it works great.

Len

tsy

Hey Rob, I thought you never drove your mustang anymore. Do you trust your son to take care of it? I'm not sure I trust my kids with anything more than 50 hp!

Hey, how did you ding repair go on the LGT?

tom