Subaru Crew Cafe

rsholland

You ought to go drive one. You'll probably hate the first 10 minutes or so, but it kind of grows on you after a while. Just remember to keep the tranny in "manual mode."

The dealer was the Mercedes/Smart EuroMotors in Germantown, on Rt. 118 I think; right off I-270.

Bob

ateixeira

I'll drive one before I buy anything, mostly out of curiosity.

volkov

link title

It may seem irrelevant, but in Canada anyway Subaru factory leases and financing are held by GMAC. I don't know exactly how the finances are worked out wrt incentives and residuals between the SOC parent and GMAC. My dealer said he had no idea what the effect would be on new leases going forward. I would already be leasing my new Forester Limited in Newport blue if the vehicle actually existed in Canada. There is one coming into Canada this month!!

paisan

A customer of ours bought a smart car, we did the trailer hitch on it for him. He paid $13k out the door for the base model, and he said that it was a good deal, he said anything above the base defeats the purpose of the car. He can park it anywhere in manhattan that he lives or goes to, so that was his incentive.

As for door dings, never will happen, all the panels are plastic. He did get his bumper rubbed in the back but that happens on any car in NYC.

-mike

ateixeira

Those panels should help, and yeah, for sure, at $13k it's a lot easier to justify.

I think the convertible starts around $16k or so. Options are expensive.

paisan

I feel it's similar to the Pontiac G8. At $31k for the G8GT it's a bargain, however the G8 GXP at $40k is not going to be a bargain anymore.

-mike

rsholland

Edmunds long-term G8 GT blog.

http://blogs.edmunds.com/roadtests/Vehicles/2008PontiacG8GT/

Bob

p0926

Hmm... I think I'll stick with my over-priced impractical Teutonic 2-seat hard-top convertible :P

-Frank

kurtamaxxxguy

For July 2008 Subaru (USA) had a 4.5 % increase in sales, behind Damer AG (12.5%) but ahead of American Honda (3.2%).
Everyone else (save whoever is in "other), lost ground.

ateixeira

I'm impressed that they have not lost sales, like nearly everyone else. The Impreza was brand new a year ago, too.

volkov

And a ince increase in Canada too. 16000 units in USA and 2000 units in Canada in July according to the stats I saw. The big problem though is that Subaru may find the hype of the new Forester is passed by the time they finally have stock available when it comes to "new-to-Subaru" buyers. I wonder what happened here? Maybe being conservative with production until they saw the reception of the new model. It is a missed opportunity every time one of the articles comes out praising the F-09 and consumers can't just march down to the dealer to see/drive the model they might want. Newbies might just move on.

ateixeira

Good point, and furthermore they REALLY screwed up the model mix.

The Limited is in very short supply, one buyer had to order one and may have to wait 10-12 weeks! Yikes!

They thought the Premium model was going to be the volume model, but that no longer has the AWP standard, so that surely pushed some people up towards the Limited. Now that the AWP is an option, let's see if more people get Premiums.

p0926

furthermore they REALLY screwed up the model mix

I'll say! They neglected to offer the XT with a MT

Sorry I couldn't resist

-Frank

ateixeira

It was low volume, but still, that was the halo model. It helped get it on the 5Best Trucks list in C&D for 3 years.

kurtamaxxxguy

For 2006 reliability, Subaru apparently came in below the industry Average - not bu much, but below average. :surprise:

By comparison, VW was worse.
LandRover was much worse (and bottom rated - problems in every vehicle). :sick:

Toyota's Rav4 led the CUV segment.

p0926

JD Powers has always rated Subaru below avg. I think it's because they only take into account initial quality and totally ignore long-term reliability. So for instance, your door buzz would drag down Subaru's score but the a major component failure in 2-3 years wouldn't hurt the score at all :confuse: I find Consumer Reports reliability scores far more useful.

-Frank

ateixeira

I agree, and note that many brands that do well in the IQ study do not score well in their Durability study (and vice-versa).

ateixeira

Got to drive 4 different AWD sport sedans on Summit Point Raceway. Needless to say, this was a hoot.

First we drove the A4 on a modified loop that included the Carousel. First I went as a passenger, for about 8-10 laps, then I drove and my brother was my passenger (Bob was in another car).

We followed a lead car in formation, 5 cars in a row (no passing, of course), but they went pretty quick and it was quite a bit of fun. You'd learn the racing line for the first couple of laps, then keep refining the line as we got progressively quicker. We sampled the A4 in Comfort mode (Lexus like) and then in Dynamic mode (BMW like). They said it was chameleon-like, but honestly the Dynamic mode was better in every way. Comfort had some throttle lag and I can't imagine when that would be desireable.

Later we repeated the same drive, but in a Q7. Bob got to drive an A3. While the A3 is probably the sportier car for that type of drive, I figured the Q7 would be closer to the limit, plus the other cars were all booked up. There was an A6, and A8, and I think one TT. Same type of drive - in formation, 5 in a row, no passing.

The Q7 felt big, of course, and visibility is poor for that type of driving. Another problem was the stability control kept interfering, in fact it cut off the throttle completely on the Carousel (which is a banked turn). Later we figured out than with the Transmission in Sport mode, it wouldn't do that. I was surprised because we did have the suspension in the sportiest mode - Dynamic, and I still experienced that problem. Don't ask my why the Transmission mode it what affects the level of intrusiveness of the ESP, but it did.

I drove the Q7 first, then my brother drove, again another 8-10 laps or so each. He drove with the Trans in Sport so he got to have more fun, in fact I was pretty darn proud of how much he learned and improved throughout the day. At first he was hesitant and jerky, but by the end of the day he was smooth and quick, keeping up with the sportier cars in that SUV without any drama. :shades:

In between those two drives, we got to run a comparo. Audi had the A4 V6 Quattro. They brought along a BMW 328xi, a Benz 300 4Matic, and a Lexus IS 250 AWD.

Audi said they chose those because those models have AWD, and in the case of the Bimmer the price was comparable. If you ask me, they should have compared an A4 with the 2.0FSI engine, not the upscale V6, which is expected to have a higher price than any of those competitors.

Any how, we got to take each on one very short "hot lap". It was on a small part of the track, but it felt more like an autocross run than a race circuit. You went left, right, left, right, then a slalom and a brake test, and you were done.

We drove the A4 first, which felt quickest (of course) and handled very well for its size and mass. It ain't the light compact it used to be.

Then came the Benz, which was slower and had a lot more lean. It also understeered a lot. It was actually the best in the brake test, though, with straight and smooth stops.

Next up was Lexus, the slowest by far, with only 204 hp from a small V6. It also had tons of body roll, so it would not surprise me if they raise or soften their AWD model compared to the base, which I've driven before and felt a little better. I will say it has the softest leather and the most comfortable seats, plus the most ergonomic interior. It's a softy, but a very plush one.

Finally we drove the BMW. The funny thing was it handled as well, if not better than, the Audi A4. The Audi was quicker, but we were comparing Audi's upgrade engine to BMW's base engine. It was a close call, but I thought BMW won on handling, Audi on acceleration. The BMW's interior was the worst of the 4 cars by a wide margin, cold and stark.

So the funny thing is we (my brother and I) felt like each had something unique to offer. I'd take the Audi's engine, the Lexus' seats and dash, the BMW's suspension, and the Benz' brakes. Overall, though, the BMW and Audi were just about a match for each other, so for me it might even come down to price.

In summary a great event, and one I recommend to anyone who enjoys driving.

The funniest part was when the introductory peice talked about the AWD philosophy that Audi employs. Well, then, why isn't it standard in all your cars, like Subaru?

subearu

I've been to two Audi Experience's at Autobahn Country Club in Joliet, IL. Not too shabby a deal for free minus the drive down, which is just about 2 hours. Though, I did get 32mpg in the S40 T5 at Chicago freeway speeds.

Same setup there it sounds like too. I would have liked to drive the 328xi on the track to see how it did compared to the new A4. Of note here too, these were "German" new A4's, so the U.S. ones might vary a tiny bit. The adaptive handling modes were fun to try, you're right, Dynamic was the best one. Lots of people after driving the A4 found the MB to be like a boat on the mini-course. Several cones hit whenever folks were driving the MB. I thought the MB ranked last because the handling was just awful, something like 1.5 turns of the wheel just to get through those twisties. The IS250 AWD was third, while it seemed to handle the course fine, it was not quick about it and really offered no feedback. Comfy seats indeed though.

The BMW and A4 were close in my opinion too. With the A4's dynamic mode though, I thought it edged out as the favorite though, plus the seats and interior were far more comforting then the BMW.

Too bad they didn't have the Audi 2.0, it would probably have been quite a hoot to tool around in there too.

I have only gone to 3 of these "drive" events this year so far: Lexus IS-F and Audi A4 Experience (both at Autobahn CC), and the BMW Komen drive in Chicago on Lake Shore Drive. (BTW, the 135 convertible is a fun car).

-Brian

ateixeira

I put the IS' trans in Sport mode, and didn't realize you had to do all the shifting manually. That stalled my single lap in that car a bit. Had I driven a complete lap properly, I may have liked it better than the Benz.

So 2 (!) times a silly Trans selection interfered with my drive.

volkov

To be fair, I did have a few squeeks and rattles on the WRX from the get go. Only the loose panic handle was bad and that was fixed. OTOH, in over 4 years nothing more has arisen and the the vehicle has been perfect otherwise.

volkov

For AWD performance sedans, the infiniti G37 is more in the game than the Lexus based on what I've read. Maybe that's excluded for not quite meeting the brand cachet factor. Wouldn't the Bimmer 335xi be closer in $$ to the A4 with the six if price parity is their claim? That is a completely different animal to the 328.

ateixeira

Per their estimates the A4 would cost about $2000 more than the 328xi, but a lot less than the 335xi, so they argued t he 328xi was closer.

I still think they should have had 2.0FSI engines as well.

They evaluated sedans, so I'm not sure why the G35x wasn't there. Good catch.

kyfdx

They picked what they did.... because, they wanted to win... :shades:

ateixeira

Yep. I think the Lexus' price was $6 or 8 grand lower than the estimated price for the A4. Definitely in 2.0FSI price territory.

subearu

And even though we know these type of events are mostly biased toward the event holder, they are fun. Nothing to sneeze about getting free track time in someone elses car...and gas...and tires....

I was really surprised the MB didn't handle well at all, expect the new version to be decent. Maybe the C350 is better, but that doesn't come in AWD. And I surely wouldn't have minded comparing the A4 to a Legacy GT.

I keep looking for other similar drive events to go to. I have this bookmarked as well http://blogs.edmunds.com/straightline/MoreCategories/ConsumerTrack%20Events/

-Brian

lucien2

Our beloved BG got a right hard smack in the butt yesterday. 71 year old driver of a 1991 Sedan de Ville who "couldn't reach the brake pedal properly" and hit us somewhere in the 20mph range. We're going to need a new liftgate I think since there is some creasing in the metal just above the latch, and the paint is flaking off now..... and of course bumper skin/bumper/mounts, and also she managed to get about 2 inches worth of rear quarter panel where it wraps around under the taillights (which were spared).

Everyone's fine....except the Caddy. Our little Subie &^%$ that thing right up LOL. headlights, turn indicators, grille, bumper, skin, some plastic bits underneath, and a tented hood for good measure. It left under its own power since the radiator was spared, but unlike the Soob, is nowhere near legal to drive.

We're sore today but otherwise well. Too bad, as we are on vacation at the moment. Gotta hassle and wrassle with her insurance co. when we get back. I don't think there will be much of a fight, since she rear ended us. The fault there almost always lies with the second car.

rsholland

Bummer Loosh. Glad no one was hurt.

Bob

subearu

If you filed a police report, there will be no question in who's at fault. Plus you have all the information that the insurance company would need to contact the other party.

-Brian

lucien2

PA State Trooper said they don't do reports on non-injury accidents. So I filed a claim directly with her agent, not mine. We shall see.

On a sunnier note, someone in Kamen, Germany emptied our checking acct this afternoon. Yay!

ladywclass

OMG ... NO! ...

We had a number of people in town here who had money taken from far-flung places ... it is thought that the password codes were stolen through an ATM machine ...

rsholland

Wow Loosh! What can you do about that?

Bob

lucien2

I don't know. It cleared this afternoon, and I see it on my online teller. But the bank is closed of course. I don't know if it was a case of stolen debit card #, or some other kind of hack, and I can't do a thing about it until the bank opens tomorrow. But boy are they going to get an earful. Every time I travel abroad, I have to tell them when I am leaving, when I am returning, where I am going, and any international connecting airports I might visit. The one time I forgot, I tried to buy a bottle of water at Gatwick and the promptly declined the card and froze my accts. It was the weekend and so I had no access to my money until that Monday when I was able to call and get it sorted out. Small inconvenience I thought, given how zealously they are protecting my acct from intl fraud. SO WHERE WAS ALL THAT SECURITY TODAY??? Plus I got hit with a $11 International Transaction Fee to boot. :sick:

paisan

That sux!

Hopefully they can get it sorted out for you.

I've gotten accustomed to using my CC for everything, I am pretty sure it's easier to dispute a charge rather than try to get actual money back that's been taken.

-mike

ateixeira

Sorry to hear about the run of bad luck.

Good luck always follows, though...

volkov

Awful luck! All that electronic banking stuff really scares me sometimes. Banks have up to now been covering people's losses but a recent article pointed out that the fine print says that in most cases they don't have to. Someone will one day be the first to be told, "We regret that due to our recent financial losses, we will no longer reimburse our clients...". You are inspiring me to contact our insurance agent.

ateixeira

I have 2 credit cards with them and they've been OK to me.

There was one time after I bought a big screen TV that they froze the card, but one call cleared that right up.

Be nice to the customer service folks, I used to work at a Help Desk and the nicest people got the best service, trust me.

Raising your voice does not help. Asking for a supervisor often puts them on the defensive, so they may do less - it's a risk to stick your neck out for a client at that point.

Trust me, be nice! :shades:

lilbluewgn02

I also have a cc and they called me yesterday to find out if I tried to charge over $2,000 on some transaction that they turned down...I told them no and they immediately canceled the account due to attempted fraud. I find them extremely watchful when it comes to their cc accounts; that's a good thing. I had a similar incident years ago where my card was used fraudulently and the called the next day to verify charges...

volkov

The situation the OP describes however is complete incompetance and unprofessional. Being told they will slag your credit and then fix it later would not be reassuring to me in the situation described. Are you sure it was Chase that was being responsible when it came to the CC. Much of this goes directly to/from Visa or MC with your bank merely a conduit to the customer. In other words, you may be giving Chase credit for Visa's good work.

paisan

No offense but your story is no different than what could be expected from any large organization. You make it sound like your one case is the only case that has ever fallen through the cracks. I've heard similar stories almost word for word from Citi, BofA, etc. etc.

-mike

ateixeira

I'll repeat - call again and be nice, kill them with kindness.

Trust me, the people who can help you are human, and they'll be far more motivated to do something if they like you and think you may pay a complement to their supervisor for your efforts, vs. complaining.

Back in my Help Desk days, there was this nice lady that always used to bake us cakes. When she would call, we would trip over ourselves to see who could get to her first to help her. She got the best service, period. Better than any manager or VP.

When the "complainers" would call, we'd all look busy and try not to be available. Whoever drew the short straw would have to go help them - at their risk and perile. They got the worst service, and reluctantly!

I can't emphasize this enough - BE NICE to the customer service folks.

I believe paisan has been in that position before, so he would likely understand.

ateixeira

Came across this pic:

rsholland

...time-lapsed to a few minutes.

http://www.rally.subaru.com/timelapse.html

Bob

rsholland

http://blogs.edmunds.com/straightline/2008/08/subaru-sti-ring-video.html

xwesx

Whoa! That was impressive. Almost makes you wonder why they bother starting with a complete car.....

lilbluewgn02

It was definitely Chase.

caliberchic

I can relate to you unsastifactory experience with Chase. I've been through the ringer with this company for the last 6 weeks just trying to get my promissory note processed for a student loan. I won't bore you all with details but it's been a huge joke! If they weren't giving me a 5.5% interest rate I would have walked the 6th time I had to send the documents!

paisan

I believe paisan has been in that position before, so he would likely understand.

Yup, did tech support on Wall Street for 7 years. Those folks who were nice ALWAYS got better service, heck we'd even go pre-emptively fix their stuff.

-mike
Motorsports and Modifications Host

paisan

If they weren't giving me a 5.5% interest rate I would have walked the 6th time I had to send the documents!

You answered your own question....

You need to pay to play. Everyone wants to have MB/Acura/BMW service at Kia prices. This just isn't going to happen

-mike
Motorsports and Modifications Host

ateixeira

Pre-emptive indeed. They get the any upgrades available first.