Subaru Crew Cafe

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    http://www.autoblog.com/2010/12/14/video-mitsubishi-evo-cant-be-tamed-by-dyno/#c- ontinued

    Hopefully not Colin's car. ;)
  • colin_lcolin_l Member Posts: 591
    Scary! Not mine obviously, but definitely a 2003-2005 Evo8.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    by adding a few more zeros to that $100K ceiling?

    http://www.bugatti.com/en/veyron-16.4/configurator.html

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That's slow, I want the Super Sport model. LOL
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Think AWD Countryman, minus the 2 extra doors. So another CUV "coupe" hits the market.

    http://www.autoblog.com/2010/12/19/detroit-preview-mini-paceman-concept-relieves- -the-countryman-of/

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    edited December 2010
    Had an interesting thing happen to me yesterday while driving my WRX. There is this great windy road I take almost everyday heading to my gym, and when I entered one of my favorite corners at an admittedly brisk pace, the tires (all 4 of them) just broke loose sending me into an oversteer skid! There was no warning or anything; first there was traction, and then zero traction—like a light switch had been thrown. With a quick bit of counter-lock, I pulled it out okay, but I was really startled by this. Luckily no car car was in the oncoming lane, or there would have been an accident.

    If you recall, several months ago I replaced the stock summer Dunlop Sport 01 tires with a set of high-performance all-season Continental ExtremeContact DWS tires, which have been highly rated by just about everyone. Now I know "summer" tires can get slippery when it gets cold, whether there is snow on the ground or not, but I was surprised that an "all-season" tire would also suffer the same consequence when pushed a bit. I guess high-performance all-season tires aren't all that different from summer tires in that respect. As I recall the outside temp was in the upper 20s. ...And for further reference, in warmer weather, I've taken that corner at brisker speeds with no problems whatsoever.

    Bob
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    Is it possible you hit some black ice?

    -Brian
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Thought about that, but as I recall the road looked clear.

    Bob
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    And that's why they call it black ice! Sure looks clear, but the frictional properties are zero!

    We get that a lot when the temps drop. A body of water nearby (pond, swamp, etc.) is still warm enough to produce a fine mist that condenses and freezes on the suddenly cold roads. The layer of ice is measurable in thousands of an inch, but it plays havoc with traction. Factor in a tire that already doesn't perform well in the cold, and it spells trouble.

    Yesterday I put new shoes on my OBW for a mid-life refresh of the cars look. Conti ExtremeWinter's on new alloy wheels from TireRack. I'll have to get some pix up (once I figure out how now that CarSpace is gone).
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I really think the road was clear, and that the tires don't grip as well as they do when it's warmer outside.

    Bob
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 268,512
    I think any tire will lose grip as the temperature drops...

    I wasn't there, obviously, but reporting that all four tires broke traction at the same time would lend the black ice scenario more credence.. Otherwise, it seems you would get understeer or oversteer if it was just a matter of too much speed for the amount of grip...

    I'm guessing you got a good heart rate boost from that... ;)

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  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    edited December 2010
    We can thank Global Warming and the ensuing Climate Change for fun stuff like this. "Mid Atlantic Bob" is going to have to get used to the kind of stuff we see in the North East on a regular basis in winter. Ultimately, the message is to slow down a bit when the temps go much below freezing unless you can be sure you'll have the room to recover from such a slide.

    Glad to hear it was simply an arterial stress test, and not something more serious!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Also, the tires themselves may have been cold, so the compound was rock hard and succeptible.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Not sure what constitutes a warm (or operating at normal temp) tire, but I had driven the car about 6 miles with the temps in the upper 20s when this occurred.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It's been so darn cold here, it wouldn't surprise me if the tires were still cold if you had been driving in a straight line. The pavement must be in the 28-32 degree range unless it's in direct sunshine.

    I haven't even been driving the Miata, until today that is. It was parked for about a whole week. The summer tires guarantee that.
  • colin_lcolin_l Member Posts: 591
    I tend to agree with you. I have the same tires, as you know, but I haven't experienced anything like this because there honestly isn't any particular corner that I could do this on during my daily drive. (I wouldn't do it at a normal street corner, and on-/off ramps are pretty fast so to corner hard you'd have to be going really fast.)

    It is entirely possible to break all four tires loose at the same time if you go way too hard on cold tires. I've done it in autocross for sure, and maybe on the street but no time recently. I suspect the reason why the tires did it is because they're rated for high speed, so they probably have rubber compound that is more similar to a summer tire than a low-performance all season. They also have a very high UTG rating of 540 treadwear which in my experience always means harder, less grippy rubber.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    edited December 2010
    It was a typical 2-lane country road, with some very enticing curves, of which this was one. It's a road I drive almost daily, so I'm quite familiar with it. I slid about half way into the other lane before catching it. Like I said, good thing no one was coming in the other direction.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Maybe there was oil spilled there? Check it out next time you drive by it.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I've already driven it several times since. The road is clean; no oil, nothing.

    Bob
  • colin_lcolin_l Member Posts: 591
    I believe you, Bob! :D

    It hasn't been that cold here in weeks but I'm sure it will return. Next time it's sub-20 I'll go for a spirited drive... not too wild though, I don't have a stability control. ;)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'd take my Miata over there but I'd probably end up in the ditch!
  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    edited December 2010
    I haven’t been around recently. Dra’s Mum came up to visit and became suddenly ill two weeks ago. She passed away yesterday. It is a real blow to the family, but she got to go out on her own terms really. Said her goodbyes and drifted off with her daughters at her side.
    She was 83 and had basically stayed out of hospital since giving birth other than day surgery for her gallbladder. She had mild to moderate Alzheimer’s but still lived at home, and had said years ago that she wanted to die of something not waste away with dementia. She had seen her mother die of severe early onset Alzheimers. Turned out to be acute leukemic crisis – a diagnosis we didn’t even have before admission, although she had just started being worked up for anemia in the past month and acute leukemia had been one of the possibilities mentioned by the hematologist at an appointment just 5 days earlier.
    It complicates Christmas for sure, especially the kids, but I actually think it will mean a more family centred holiday. Wishing you all special times with your families and friends in the days to come.
    Nicholas
  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    Don't like the colour scheme - too stark, and 3 times now I typed the above message only to have weird things happen to the text before posting.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    edited December 2010
    Nicholas, so sorry to hear of your loss, especially this time of the year. Alzheimer’s is an ugly, ugly disease, Both my mother and mother-in-law passed away from Alzheimer’s. Again, so sorry...

    Bob
  • colin_lcolin_l Member Posts: 591
    very sorry for your loss, Nicholas. peace be with your family this holiday season.
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Nicholas,

    I too am sorry for your and your wife's loss. It sucks for sure.

    (on a far less important note - did you get a mystery box in the middle of your post when you tried to edit?).

    Steve
  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    exactly, an edit box like in power point for an item. When I exited out, it ate parts of the text. In one case I did try to cut and paste a sentence to a different paragraph, but in one occasion I simply (I thought) moved the cursor to correct a typo. Then I tried posting it with the hope I could edit later, but no text showed up.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Very sorry, at least she was with loves ones. :(
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    http://www.autoblog.com/2010/12/21/video-how-to-railslide-a-front-drive-1992-sub- aru-legacy/

    Pretty funny.
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    I mentioned last week that I was going to put the new snows on the OBW, and it impacted the handling quite a bit more than I had anticipated.

    Last time around I went with Dunlap WinterSport M2 tires, in the OE stock size of 225/60-HR16. On dry roads they felt pretty much like the other all-season tires I'd previously had. As the tread depth was no longer winter-worthy (down around 5/32), I decided to burn them off over the summer.

    While I only went shopping for tires this time to mount on my winter alloys, TireRack's prices for a package were so aggressive that I ended up with tires on new alloys. In an attempt to get more bite, I went with Continental ExtremeWinter in size 215/65-TR16.

    Multiple changes - slightly narrower, higher profile, H ==> T means more flexible sidewall, 11/32 of fresh, squirmy tread. Wow! Like a whole different car. Twitch the steering wheel and count to 3 before the car responds! Incredibly quiet and smooth ride, however. It feels like I traded in my OBW for a plushmobile. While I miss the sharper handling, my aging back likes the new ride characteristics.

    Net cost? I sold the old set yesterday, and saved on the cost of mount/balance/valves/disposal from my original plan of tires alone. My out of pocket is under $80 for the new rims.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I should consider that for my Miata, getting a taller/narrower tire for winter use.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://blogs.insideline.com/straightline/2010/12/x-raid-mini-countryman-goes-tes- ting-for-dakar.html
  • colin_lcolin_l Member Posts: 591
    edited December 2010
    What is really cool, though, is when you stop the gas to the floor from a dead stomp in 6+ inches of snow and it accelerates like normal. AWD and snow tires are crazy good.
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    .... and it's just that event that what will make the expense & inconvenience all worth it!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Got some snow flakes here, not enough to accumulate, though.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Visited (our daughter) Mairen, her new husband Jess, (our son) David and Jess' parents, Janet and Paul for X-Mas over in Ocean Pines, MD. Had a great time—and we got ~ a foot of snow to boot!

    That area, when they get that kind of snow, just shuts down. The roads (may?) get plowed, and I don't think they salt them either. On our way back home today, we didn't see any significant clear pavement until we got past Salisbury.

    One thing I learned is that my WRX's clutch does not like deep snow. It emits a disgusting burning oder when starting off from a standstill; like it's being abused, which I guess it is. :(

    If the snow is not deep, it's not a problem; but if it is deep—driver beware...

    Bob
  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    Try turning off the TC in those situations. I've noticed it once or twice before and I drive in deep snow all the time. TC is trying to achieve no-slip driving by applying the brakes and therefore stressing the clutch especially if you are slipping it. In really deep snow I prefer to turn TC off especially to get started. You can turn it back on once moving.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    edited December 2010
    Hmmm... You may have a point there. I hadn't thought of that.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Well, we already know the answer, but here's a video if you need further convincing.

    http://www.tflcar.com/2010/12/mashed-up-match-up-awd-snow-vs-summer-tire-shoot-o- ut-in-the-rocky-mountians-.html

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Too obvious?

    Next week - Bugatti Veyron vs. Chevy Aveo.

    Both have 4 wheels, but which is faster?
  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    Are we talking "Forza" here? Almost beat that RS8 with an Aveo....

    What a useless pile. I would expect my kids to get a failing grade on their Gr 7 science fair experiment with that experimental design.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    In related news, water is wet, and Antarctica is cold. :P
  • hammerheadhammerhead Member Posts: 907
    Pain hurts, death kills, and bears do poop in the woods.

    Film at 11...
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    We spent Christmas down in Spotsylvania, VA with my wife's family, and drove north today. Lucky I called the plow guy from down there, as there was no way we were going to get down our driveway with the 18" or so we received in the Hudson Valley. Quite a mess....
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Cool, my dad used to own a lake-front house down there in Lake of the Woods. We used to water ski all the time.

    Today, Fredericksburg is considered a DC suburb, hard to believe!
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Their house is down one of the dirt roads that runs thru the Spotsylvania Courthouse Civil War battlefield. I think I saw General Meade and the Union Army Regulars crossing the field (in hot pursuit of them thar rebels) one night in the dark!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I remember they always used to do those re-enactments around there. I never understood the appeal, but a few friends are Civil War history buffs and they love stuff like that.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,764
    I have not used my Continentals in weather above about 35 degrees, so the soft rubber has not been a problem in terms of responsiveness on my Escort, but I immediately noticed the immensely softer and quieter ride once I mounted them. I am so pleased, there is no way I can mount the old Goodyear Allegra all-seasons back on there come April. Of course, they are also worn out (about 3-4 / 32 on them), so I really should replace them anyway.

    My family stayed at home for the holidays. We don't do much celebrating, so we have just had many quiet days at home (not counting the obnoxious children) and some wonderful food.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,764
    It doesn't take much to get a Subaru clutch to burn.

    The only time I wish I would have chosen an auto over our MT Forester is when I'm playing (or just driving) in deep snow. I took it out on some logging trails on 12/24 to pick out a surprise holiday tree for the kids. It was fun, and I followed a dogsled team on one of the trails for a mile or so, but it was a solo trip so nobody else got to enjoy it with me.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    After the Blizzard of 2010, I have to say I preferred my 98 Forester with a manual over my wife's 09 automatic.

    Again, it's a control thing. I just felt like I had more, and could use wheelspin to gain momentum (in those pre-traction control days).

    This is true even though my wife's car has an extra 1.2" of ground clearance.
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