Subaru Crew Cafe

ateixeira

Cars that can fly and get 100mpg of tap water, safe as a bank vault but fun as a roadster.

That's about what we want. ;-)

Check out a new 4Runner too, is gas mileage is not on the list.

-juice

p0926

So Ed, why is it that you need a mid-size SUV for two adults and one infant? You'd think that the Forester or Outback would be the perfect size. Please tell me she's not caving to the bigger is better & safer SUV mindset ;-)

-Frank P.

c_hunter

Definitely check out the Highlander, even if you have to test drive an 03. We drove the Pilot and Highlander when my wife was shopping last year (ended up in a Forester). We both felt like the Pilot had a touch of "truck" in it, while the Highlander was much more carlike. To be honest, they both felt like minivans to me, but on opposite ends of the spectrum.

If I had a boat to tow or needed truck capabilities, I'd go with the Pilot. Otherwise, the Highlander is very nice.

Craig

lark6

Frank: Yes, she is. :-( I do not believe she needs a vehicle so large.

As for me, I'm using my REI Visa card to build up a large enough patronage dividend to take a chunk out of the cost of a Yakima rooftop box.

Craig: I expect she will.

Ed

p0926

Ed- Well have you decided that this isn't a fight worth fighting or can we provide you with ammunition that you can use to steer her towards something better suited to her needs?

-Frank P.

lark6

Not sure, Frank. In the case of the Forester, I would have thought that many of the things that sold it on me - crash test ratings, outward visibility, resale value, maker's quality reputation, good handling, ergonomics (oh yeah, and the Cold Weather Package!) - would have sold it on her. It is too small in her opinion.

I also don't know why she is so dead set against the H6 OB. Given that the '04 has a very short run, that dealers will want to move them to get the '05 redesign on the lots, and that I will soon be eligible for VIP pricing through ACA, I would think she could get one at or below invoice. The treatment and little perks I have gotten from SoA - individualized attention and problem resolution via Patti, free passes to the Philadelphia Flower Show, Willow Grove Air Show, etc. - have to have made some sort of impression on her as well, though I'm not sure that the impression is entirely favorable. It could be something along the lines of "if their product was so good to begin with, they wouldn't have to do all these things to retain customers." I disagree with that but can understand how someone could reach that conclusion.

Ed

rsholland

Anybody see the new MB E-55 TV commercial where the wife fights off a dragon, and puts it back under the hood of the car? What a great commercial!

Bob

p0926

Bob- I caught a glimpse of that one, next time I'll pay more attention. I like the Penzoil one with the stereo-typical soccer mom ignoring the check oil idiot light until the engine finally takes matters into its own hands.

-Frank P.

kens

Ed,

I've tried the H6 OB on my wife with the same thing in mind. We're going to need a bigger car for her with the infant seat and with all the incentives with the MY04 models, I thought it would be a dead ringer.

However, she's not keen on the idea. I think she just hasn't warmed to the idea of a wagon <gasp>.

That's okay. I've stopped trying for now. I'll just go ahead and get my souped up 2005 Legacy GT wagon and show her what wagons are all about. ;-)

Ken

lark6

Ken: I hear ya. It's still XT or Legacy wagon for me next time.

Bob: My favorite auto ad these days is the one they run on Speed Channel for the Porsche Cayenne. Little boy playing with his food at the dinner table, cuts a groove through his mashed potatoes with his fork. He spears a green bean (or sugar snap pea, not sure) on the fork and "drives" it through the groove in the potatoes, making vroom noises as he goes. Dad looks very annoyed, finally bursts out (not exact quote): "Okay, I've had enough!" Little boy looks scared. Dad: "How many times do I have to tell you...it's slow in, fast out!" Cut to Dad carving twisties in the Cayenne, casting knowing glances to little boy secure in car seat in the back, wide grins on both.

Love the ad; it almost convinces me that the Cayenne may not be a sign of the apocalypse.

Ed

p0926

Ed- Hmm... cute ad or not, for my part, I think I need a little more convincing ;-)

-Frank P.

lark6

lucien2

Ya know, like $3000-$5500. I figure when we start having kids, what better relief for us from wrangling kiddie seats than have a Miata on hand for whichever (or both) parents need a top-down break from it all.

Juice needs to tell me how to go shopping for one.

kens

That's a great idea that I wished I had thought of earlier. The key is to get it BEFORE the baby arrives. Once the baby's there, you start budgeting for the new infant seat, high chair, crib, clothes...the list goes on and on and the car gets further and further away.

Ken

rsholland

http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?epi-con- tent=GENERIC&newsId=20030925005275&headlineSearchConfigBO- =1064502000000%201064516783000%20%20groupByDate%20%201%20-4%20106- 4502000000%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%201000151%20true%20true%20&amp- ;newsLang=en&beanID=478837757&viewID=news_view

lucien2

indeed. I was thinking maybe for my 35th birthday (2005). Wife said I could have a P1800 for my 35th, but I think a Miata is more fun (convertible) and more reliable (Japanese), although a lot less sexy. Cheaper too.

Kids would follow fairly quickly.

rsholland

mbunting "Nissan Dunehawk concept" Sep 26, 2003 6:27pm

rsholland

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/d/36450

rsholland

http://hondanews.com/Forms/acura/MDX/index_images.html?kw=current- acura

hondafriek

I second what Ken advised, get the car before kids come along or you can kiss it goodbye.

  Cheers Pat.

ateixeira

Used Miatas are cheap and abundant. They are easy to work on, aftermarket vendors galore, half a million of them on the road.

OK, brief history, the 90-93 models were the 1.6l engines, 116hp/100 ft-lbs, very light, smallish brakes, most have 14" rims, 25/30 mpg. Driver side air bag only, so you can take Jr. for a joy ride when he's big enough (no pass air bag). Some like it the best because it's the lightest. Turbo kit group buys start at $1080. :-)

The '94 got the 1.8l engine, 128hp, 22/27 mpg, slightly bigger gas tank but less range overall. Brakes got bigger, but you can but '94 rotors on an earlier one if you swap calipers L<->R. It's a little heavier and has 2 air bags. It has one chassis brace under the engine, too.

So 94-97 had that basic setup, but still all 90-97 are considered the first gen.

There was no '98 model, and in '99 the 2nd gen arrived with the fixed headlights. Bye bye pop-ups. Engine now at 140hp, but again weight kept creeping up so it is only marginally quicker. Rims are bigger, though. These have 2 air bags but a kill switch, finally, so again you could take a kid for a spin.

So, for your price range, forget the '99 or newer. You could go with a low mile 90-93 and spend the rest on handling mods. Or go with a 94-97 for the better torque and bigger brakes plus more bracing, and install an air bag kill switch (not hard I hear).

Problems? Not many. Early 90 models had issues with the crank IIRC, but by now they've either died or they will never fail. Some complain about clutch chatter on 99s, but that's out of you price range neeways.

I would consider a compression test if it has a lot of miles to see if the rings are still good.

Finally, two strategies for shopping - you could shop on Miata.net and pick up an already modded car cheap, but...it might have been driven hard.

I chose Door #2, the old lady that only drove it to church on Sundays, with very low miles and clean inside and out, of course I paid $7800 and blue book was close to $11 grand, so I got lucky.

If you see one locally, gimme a call and I'll go with you to check it out.

-juice

ateixeira

longitudinal engine layout
viscous rear LSD on 90-93 (94 went to a track-biased torsen)
symmetrical powertrain
power to the rear axle full time

:-)

lucien2

I guess I need to save up for this AND the possible heart trasnplant for the Leg.

rsholland

CBS's "Sunday Morning," just moments ago, did a story on BMW's controversial designer Chris Bangle. While I, like most people, have had trouble with the new BMW look (or at least some of it), after seeing this piece, I do now have a better understanding and appreciation for what he is trying to do.

Bangle's challenge is enormous. He was put in charge of the future design of a much-loved car, that's known for its mechanical excellence, high performance and stunning looks. Like Picasso and other leaders of various art movements through out history, he chose a decidedly unconventional method. While currently vilified by many, I think in the long run, his work will be greatly appreciated.

Lead. Follow. Or get out of the way!
I do firmly believe that if you don't move forward, you are actually moving backwards. In a sense, BMW's previous design direction had hit a stumbling bloc. While the cars were certainly good looking, there was little of the "wowzer" about them. So, how do you move it (the design) forward? You take some chances. It must be working, as BMW's sales continue to rise, and other carmakers (Mercedes, for one) are scrambling to follow suite.

Bob

lucien2

I made this argument months ago, to the agreement of none here at the time....

...ahh yes here it is, in the midst of our Puegeot argument.

lucien2 "Subaru Crew - Future Models II" Jul 1, 2003 5:49pm

ladywclass

driven by the old lady to church on sunday ...

my best friend in texas almost qualifies .. she has had her miata for 10 years .. she drives it a short distance to school to work (asst prin of a middle school) and to church ... she is 55 this year ...

but she does know how to ZIP in it ... lol ...
she loves hers so much she is talking about replacing the seats with leather ones ...
and her "other" vehicle is a 2003 Dodge Ram Crew Cab pickup fully loaded ... lol

rsholland

Somehow I must have missed them.

Mr. Z, Subie's new design director, faces many of the same challenges as does Bangle. The big difference being BMWs have almost been universally acclaimed for their great design; not so for Subaru. It will be interesting to watch what Subaru ends up with.

Bob

dcm61

Bob - I saw the same piece on Chris Bangle this morning. I too agree that a change in direction was needed and others will follow shortly. I kinda like the Z4 and X3 designs but the 7 and 5 series are going to take some getting used to.

DaveM

P.S. The last and final game ever to be played at Veteran's stadium in Philadelphia starts in about five minutes. A meaningless game between the Phillies and Braves. If it wasn't for the nostaglia it probably wouldn't be worth watching.

rsholland

Sometimes you stumble. The BMW 7 & 5 series were first attempts at this new design direction, and admittedly have some rough edges. The 7 is getting a quick visual massage, which should debut shortly.

From what I've seen of their new 6-series coupe, they've come a long way. It's gorgeous.

At any rate, nothing ventured, nothing gained...

Bob

fibber2

Funny, but both my wife and I have always thought that was one of Volvo's prettiest cars, and something fun to own. With one daughter and another imminent, we still both look at and drool over something to fix up and drive for pure fun. We have come close on a few occasions, most recently a '57 Chevy Nomad wagon. She really wants something like a early '20's model T, while I eye '50's and early '60's stuff (a little more practical to drive). Kids shouldn't mark the end of fun...

Steve

lucien2

we talked at length about the P1800. We decided that the pure fun car ought to be a drop top though. We ruled out the brits since we don't have time for heavy repair and rust issues. It was actually Q who said "well duh, how about an old Miata!?"

Seems like a good idea to me, although I'll still drool over P1800's, especially the wagons.

lark6

The P1800 or 1800ES is on my short list of "dream garage" cars. I flirted with the idea of Alfas but talked myself out of them; still have a hankering for an early '70's BMW 2002; and now find myself attracted to '70-'73 911 coupes. Better stick to the one in my garage; slow, stodgy, indifferent handler, but in great shape, and not eating me out of house and home.

Ed

lucien2

actually the 1800ES is what i want. There is an old 2002tii for sale around the corner (rotting out though). It is a worthy restoration project- round taillights and chromed grille indicate an early version. But the state of decay is a notch beyond what I'd be comfortable working on myself.

jfl

Having been there, if you plan to spend hours restoring an older car, pick something that will have resale value after you are finished.

Someday, you will move on. When that happens, get more out of it than a "labor of love".

Although I loved my Fiat Spider (and still admire them), I should have rebuilt a Porsche.

Jim

grahampeters

G'day

I'd gladly have one any day. Almost forty years on, they are still eye poppingly gorgeous

Cheers

Graham

lark6

Jim: Yes, I know. There is no way I will ever get the money out of my car that I put into it unless I stop puting money into it altogether. It's a 4-door sedan (most collectors of old American iron want 2-door coupes) and even though it is well-optioned otherwise it has the base drivetrain (inline 6, not V8).

I bought the car 2 weeks before I got married because I knew I wouldn't be able to afterward. It was the best example of the model I wanted at the best price I could afford.

Ed

ateixeira

Bob - actually, sales are down a bit, if you look more closely at sales numbers from a neutral source. BMW did try to put a positive spin on them by comparing a longer new model year to a previous one.

Mercedes' new designs (all the sedans) are all nicer, you like them at first site, no having to grow on them.

Now look at BMW's hunch-backs. Bangle keeps using excuses, such as the desire for bigger interiors and more cargo space. But why do Benzes still manage to be beautiful? And Jaguars? And Audis?

-juice

lucien2

you're right, plenty of schweeeet cars on Miata.net. Couple of Rs for decent prices too. Too bad I am not ready yet!

ateixeira

Prices have plunged, they are way, way low. I wouldn't sell mine right now, no way. As a seller, I'd wait until a sunny day in spring and keep the top down for any prospective buyers. Roadsters are an emotional decision for many, not rational.

As a buyer, I would start shopping when it gets chilly. But do test the operation of the top (unzip the window first, of course). Oh, and they are plastic up until '97, unless they replaced it with a glass one (about $150 plus installation).

-juice

kens

My cousin owns a 1st gen Miata (I think a '93) and he added a turbo kit, short-throw shifter, new suspension and roll bars to it. I nearly crapped my pants driving that thing down the FDR in New York. You hit even the smallest bump and you go airborne.

Apparently, there is a way to get around having to unzip the rear plastic window with the soft tops. My cousin showed me this bar that some Miata owner invented -- all you do is push the bar up against the window as you fold down the top and it lets the window wrap around it. No need to remove the window and no creases -- pretty neat.

A co-worker of mine has the limited edition (or was it a special edition) 2nd gen Miata. The engine (stock) is noticeable torquier and it's still a hoot to drive. The interior is also nicer.

If I were to buy a used one today, I'd go for the 2nd gen.

Ken

ateixeira

I've seen those, you can make one out of a swimming pool noodle and some fabric, LOL.

But...you might have to get out of the car to put the top down, if you use it. I can get the top down in about 10 seconds without leaving my seat. About 12-15 seconds to put the top up.

If my zipper breaks, that's what I would do, but until then I'd rather be able to raise/lower it from my seat.

You get what you pay for in terms of price, the 2nd gen obviously costs a lot more. About $10 grand for one with average miles.

-juice

rsholland

http://www.subdriven.com/artman/publish/article_82.shtml

Yikes, the Forester 2.0 turbo even beat out the Touareg V10 diesel! There's something screwy there...

The Subaru Forester range starts at £16,445 on-the-road for the 2.0 X which has a braked towing limit of 1,500 kg. The turbocharged XT range starts at £20,995 OTR and has a braked towing limit of 1,800 kg as a manual and 1,950 kg in automatic form.

Interesting that the UK Foresters have a higher automatic tow rating, unlike the North American versions. They also like having the Hill-Holder clutch for towing purposes.

Bob

p0926

Huh? The UK's XT has a higher towing rating with the auto tranny which wouldn't be surprising except for the fact that the US XT's tow rating is the exact opposite. What gives?

-Frank P.

ateixeira

Well, if you think about it, the Brits' ratings make far more sense.

Why? Because the automatics get a standard engine oil cooler. We all know that tranny is robust, the same unit handles 300hp in modified WRXs without a problem.

The 5 speed does without the oil cooler, and the clutch is far less robust than the auto tranny is.

So, really, it's the US' tow ratings that make no practical sense.

-juice

p0926

Juice- That was actually my point ;-) Guess I should have been clearer.

-Frank P.

rsholland

http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=6547

paisan

Well my trusty Nikon Cool Pix 775 bit the bullet after 2 years and over 10,000 pictures (most of which you can see on http://Isuzu-suvs.com http://TeamIAC.com )

So I'm in the market for a digital camera, mostly for web pictures. Found one I'm about to pull the trigger on.

http://www.willoughbys.com/shop/Product.asp?ProdTypeList=1000&amp- ;Sku=2050FZIK#

It has a 12x Zoom Optical, only 2Megapixles (fine for web) and rechargable battery! And only $379 price tag.

Any feedback?

-mike

rsholland

while maybe ok for web, is poor for other applications you may want to use it for, such as printing pictures.

Bob

paisan

Out of the 10,000+ pictures I took with my first camera, not a single one was printed, so I'm willing to sacrafice the Megapixles for $.

-mike

subearu

2mp pictures at 4x6 or 5x7 size, even 8x10 if not compressed heavily by the camera's compression program.

Looks like a deal Mike. 12x optical zoom too, that's uncommon in inexpensive models.

-Brian