Honda Civic Hybrid

redbaron42

I can indeed do long stretches of country roads (6 to 10 miles) at 40 mph.

As to the Hybrid being a poor investment, that's rubbish. The window sticker price for my new 2003 Civic Hybrid was $18,895. Subtract the $2000 IRS refund and you get down to $16,895.

Compare that to the 2004 Honda Civic EX sticker price of at least $18,000 and I got myself one heck of a good investment.

Of course it helped buying a new 2003 at a time when new 2004 were being sold on the same lot.

dudka

ACtually Hybrid should be compared to LX not EX.
The point is that people buy Hybrid not only to save on Gas, but to actually help the environment and to help the world depend less on middle eastern oil. If people wanted just to save on Gas, they would all be driving Disels, as they acheive same fuel economy but do nothing to help clean the air.

redbaron42

>>>>>>Actually Hybrid should be compared to LX not EX.

Says who? How does 'dudka' know why people buy the Civic Hybrid?

I definitely bought mine to get more than 550 miles for a full tank and to save money on gas as a result.

So the Hybrid should definitely be compared to the EX as the cars offer practically the same trim with the exception of the Moonroof.

pxnews

Howdy folks,

I bought a 2004 honda civic hybrid, with the automatic CVT transmission,
about 4 weeks ago. I've put about 650 miles on the car, and so far I've been
pretty pleased.

However, yesterday (Fri, Dec 12) I came home to a message on my answering
machine from the service manager at the dealership where I purchased the
car.

He stated that he had been informed by Honda America that my car was one of
105 cars in the US that "have an issue with the steel drive belt in the
transmission" and that my transmission in my brand new car would have to be
REPLACED! Yes - completely replaced...

The message said the service manager wouldn't be in until monday, but I went
down to the dealership this morning to see if I could learn more. The
salesperson whom I had dealt with didn't know anything about this, nor did
the business manager or the general sales manager of the dealership.

However, one of the people in the service dept was able to confirm that the
service manager had been informed by American Honda that this issue existed
(had only heard on Friday?) but he had no further information. I inquired
about a service bulletin - he knew nothing of one yet.

Anyhow, I'll speak to the service manager on Monday morning and get the full
story, but I thought other people might be interested.

--Paul M.

mdriver

Realistically, the only way to reduce dependance on foreign oil is to tax gasoline at European levels (about $4/gal). Fuel consumption is just about the last thing that people consider when buying a car, thus the SUV craze is still ongoing. Right now, there are still too many economic unknowns about hybrid technology. These are resale value, battery life, serviceability (always must go to dealer for repairs). Simply replacing the batteries (after the warranty) may erase the savings in fuel costs. Again, if gas was $4/gal, this would be justified. I've also read a number of articles (Motor Trend and others) that also have the same opinion. With gas at $1.50/gal, the Ford Expeditions will keep roaring off the assembly line.

crv16

As to the Hybrid being a poor investment, that's rubbish. The window sticker price for my new 2003 Civic Hybrid was $18,895. Subtract the $2000 IRS refund and you get down to $16,895.


There is no $2,000 "IRS Refund". There is a $2,000 tax deduction, where you can reduce your taxable income by $2000. If you're in the 15% tax bracket - that amounts to a $300 savings - not $2000.

Compare that to the 2004 Honda Civic EX sticker price of at least $18,000 and I got myself one heck of a good investment.


A few months ago, I paid $15,390 for my 2003 Civic EX Sedan. A comparable Hybrid was $2,500 more. My Civic sedan has been averaging 37 mpg in mostly highway driving.

It would take a Hybrid driver, achieving 46 mpg, an astounding 294,117 miles worth of driving to hit the break even point, compared to a conventional Civic. Not to mention that somewhere in that 294k miles, the hybrid driver would need to replace the battery packs at least once, if not twice.

There is no financial benefit to buy a Hybrid over a conventional Civic.

ashutoshsm

we have a winner.

The technology is cool, but the savings don't justify the purchase.

yes, please don't buy an SUV if you don't need it. But buying a gutless, boring, drab-engined (and more - but THAT part is my personal opinion about Civics) car to feel good about - that's a bad decision - financially and otherwise

mdriver

I've seen several 04 Prius at Toyota dealer and from what I've read this car is superior to the Civic Hybrid. I saw one for $19995 + mats and destination. How could anyone honestly pass this up for the equally priced Civic that's less powerful and a gas guzzler next to Prius's 60 city mpg. I love the styling and it's a hatchback in the midsize class. Toyota was very smart with the Prius because there is no conventional Prius to compare prices like there is the Civic and Civic Hybrid. Thus the Prius has to be evaluated on its own merits. I'd still be cautious about buying it though, but the car is supposed to be excellent even when not taking into account it's a hybrid.

isellhondas

Are the ones who want to support the technology.

They want to make a statement or help reduce dependence on imported oil, etc...

And, I respect that.

But, for simple fuel savings, just do the math as others have.

Without people buying these, research and development will cease and that's probably not a good thing either.

Having said all of this, I would buy an EX hands down!

mdriver

If you really want to save money, I've seen a new Ford ZX2 auto (not Focus ZX3) for $8700 today at dealer. Marked right on the window: MSRP something like $14,500 and marked down to $8700. Yeah, it only gets something like 26city 34hwy, but let's see, how many years/miles would you have to drive it, with its lower mpg, to catch up with the cost of buying the Civic Hybrid? I won't do the math but it's probably decades. Hideous car though, the ZX2. But $8700 could make me forget that its unattractive and it's a Ford.

jaa37

I'm trying to decide between a 2003 Hybrid and a Corolla S. Any ideas? The gas mileage on the Hybrid seems great, but I'm worried about its reliability (because it's a new technology)/depreciation (because new and better hybrids might come along soon)... I'm willing to spend more money to help the environment, but I'm NOT willing to spend more money on a car that might give me problems down the road and won't be worth anything in six years...should I just stay away from this technology until we know more about it?

bd21

The technology is proven, so you don't have to wait, but you are comparing apples to oranges! You should be comparing the Toyota Pirus to the Honda Civic HX Hybrid. Between this two vehicles the Toyota offers much higher gas mileage and more features. The problem with both Hybrids is if you plan on keeping them past their warranty the replacement battery cost may hurt you in your wallet to the tune of several thousand dollars. You can currently buy an 04 Civic 4 door LX with an automatic or a similar equipped Corolla S anywhere in the country for between 16 & 17K out the door including tax. A hybrid will cost you several thousand more and you will never make that difference up with any gas saving and when battery change time comes you will be hating life. If I had to buy a Hybrid, I'd look at the Toyota. If I was trying to get the best car and bang for my buck, I would get the regular Civic.

rfruth

Seen a few Corrolls with the red S (for type S?) on them running around but I would go with the hybrid if there is a good dealer nearby (hopefully only needed for routine stuff)((that goes for any make/model)) but yea sooner or later there will be a firmware update or something for the hybrid, and yes your not going to be driving the latest & greatest in the future (that goes for a Corrolla or a Buick as well) - not long ago I was in the same boat as you, a 21st century hybrid or a 20th century something else, I went with a 00 (new at the time) Civic hatchback and while its never once let me down I regret to this day not buying a hybrid especially after hearing how well things have turned out, hey people are upgrading to Windows XP even though a new version is in the works and I could use a new microwave oven but in a few months newer ones will be out. How long should I wait ? Oh I'd test drive the hybrid compare insurance rates and all that but don't say I'll wait till we know more ! As for battery life it has a 8/80 warranty http://www.hondacars.com/models/faqs.asp?ModelName=Civic+Hybrid and its modular so you won't be walking up to parts counter and saying one battery pack please.

bd21

Both cars carry that warranty, the problem is when the warranty expires the batteries will be near their life span. If you keep the car you will pay dearly and if you sell the car your resale will be pretty low, because of the impending expense. Again, the current Hybrids will cost you more up front, and long term. These costs can't be recovered in gas saving. The hybrids do however give you bragging rights to high gas mileage and as long as no one points out that you paid a lot more for that privalige, then you can feel good about your purchase.

rfruth

When you say both cars carry that warranty, I assume you mean the Civic hybrid (HCH) and the Toyota Prius (the Prius has a bit longer warranty on its 'hybrid' components (8/100) thanks for bringing that up ! I like the Prius with its hatchback even though I have a plain ole gas powered 00 Civic hatch that has treated me well.

bd21

The years is mainly what I was referring to because that is what will hit the average driver and battery life. I like the Toyota better too, it just doesn't make sense from an economic point of view. Ecological sense Yes!

redbaron42

>>>These costs can't be recovered in gas saving.

Why do I keep seeing this non-sensical statement? Do you have a crystal ball that tells you that the price of gas will remain at $1.50 a gallon for the next six years?

Should the price slowly inch up to between $3 and $4 per gallon over the next five or six years, the Hybrid fuel savings will more than pay for an eventual battery pack replacement.

bd21

Let see gas was 68 cents a gallon when I was driving at 16 and now I'm 44 and gas is $1.30. It only took 28 years to double. So yes, I'd say I have a crystal ball and gas won't be that much in the next 10 years.

rfruth

Gas is $ 1.25 a gallon here in Houston is that even better ? (forget the fact that a barrel of crude has been over $30 a barrel for quite a while now, and most of that is imported) OPEC must be laughing so hard they have tears in their eyes cause we think gas is 'cheap' its sad that they have US over a barrel and we like it.

bd21

I will demonstrate the math for you, so you can see my point a little more clearly. First, lets take a standard Toyota Prius $20,500 (list price which you will have to pay full MSRP right now) and a Honda Civic LX 4-dr sedan automatic (you can buy one for $15,500 or less anywhere in the country right now). Both cars are about the same size and similarly equipped. The Prius should get at least 52 MPG combined driving and the Civic should get about 32 MPG. If we drive both cars 12,000 miles per year for the next eight years, here is what the numbers would look like. Lets even assume gas prices go up to $2.50 a gallon tomorrow. The Prius will use 231 gallons a year and the Civic will use 375 based on the previous figures above, meaning the Civic will use an extra 144 gallons per year. If I multiply 144 gallons X $2.50 per gallon of gas X 8 years of driving = $2,880 in additional gas cost for the Civic. Remember, you paid $5,000 more than me for your car, so you are still down $2,120 eight years later. Surprise now it gets better, it's about time for you to replace those special high tech batteries that will have to come from the dealer. How much will that cost? Good question, they won't tell exactly, I've asked. But I have a technical background and I have done a lot of research, so you can expect to pay at least $2,000. Now my figures are very conservative and using my $2.50 cost per gallon cost, gave the Prius a big advantage, but history over the past 30 years tells you that gas prices are actually pretty steady. But my figures let gas prices go crazy and you still won't make up the difference to make a Prius or a Civic Hybrid cost effective. I think they are both great ideas and good cars, but like I said they just don't make economic sense!

bd21

Well it gets even better on the battery cost for a Prius! I just called the Toyota Parts Department this morning and I got the real cost of the battery that goes with the generator for the Prius. He said they were finally able to get the price. It's a whopping $5540 and of course there will be a few hundred more required for the installation. Also, confirmed you should not expect more than 10 years out of the battery. Yes, in ten years the price may go down a little, but not enough to offset everything else I've already addressed. As I said, my figures were extremely conservative, so if you want to drive a hybrid, just remember your operating costs are a whole lot more than everyone else with a regular car.

lngtonge18

Good lord!! $5540??? Thanks for just causing me to choke on my lunch. No hybrids in my future for that fact alone.

john1701a

The ACTUAL price in TODAY'S LOW-VOLUME production is about $3,800. The quote above is clearly incorrect, perhaps it has something to do with the "with the generator" remark. Why is that included? It has no physically dependency to the pack. There's always a possibilty that the wrong pack was quoted, each generation of Prius gotten a smaller & smaller battery-pack. Honda has made improvements with the one IMA uses as well.

And there is absolutely no need to replace all the modules inside either. You can replace as few or as many as you want (in HSD, anyway).

When the warranty expires 8 years from now, there is absolutely no reason to believe the battery-pack will suddenly wear out immediately after that and there is no reason to believe the HIGH-VOLUME production price will be the same either.

Clearly, the price will drop due to increased need (many more hybrids).

Clearly, a salvage market will emerge, where you can just buy a battery-pack from a wreck instead.

Clearly, the third-party suppliers (currently Panasonic) will begin to compete, causing lower prices.

Clearly, NiMH technology will continue to improve. Much research is being done to improve those batteries for portable electronic devices.

Not so clearly, an aftermarket battery-pack could emerge offering improved performance at a competitive price.

Also keep in mind that Toyota is able to earn a profit with Prius. Do you really think that would be possible with a battery-pack price so high?

JOHN

rfruth

The battery replacement thing has been blown way out of proportion but that $ 5540 figure is impressive ! Basically the battery pack is like the piston rings, they/it should last the normal life of the vehicle (the Prius FAQs on toyota.com says "refer to applicable owner's warranty information booklet for details") But the engine may get re built at some point & the rings replaced likewise the battery pack may short out or be damaged by water and need to be completely replaced or someone could have $ 5500 burning a hole in their pocket and not want to mess with the old one, the rest of us are going to get out there with a volt meter and check for weak cells spending the $ 10-20-30 bucks for new ones as needed. Thats not to say there is no risk, what if the battery pack is stolen ? Insurance should cover it but you'll still be out a few hundred not to mention the inconvenience . The person in the Toyota parts dept that quoted the $ 5540 figure and the need to replace should be in sales.

bd21

Assuming the parts manager I talked knows what he is doing, the price I stated is correct. He said he had looked up before and he was surprised too! Call you own Toyota deal and check, let me know what they tell you. There are two batteries, one to start the car and one that is part of the power plant, which the generator is connected too. I believe the price is right and I agree the price will come down in the future, but even if it goes down 2/3 of the price it's still a lot. This battery is not like a normal car battery type, there are not separate cells that can be changed. It's more like a nickel cadmium battery. As everyone knows batteries will eventually lose their ability to be recharged. The timeline is a guess, but around 10 years makes sense to me. I keep cars 12 to 15 years and I haven't had to replace any component over $300. I think the way to go is to lease a Prius if you have to have one. Again, regardless of the battery cost, the Hybrid will still cost you more to drive over 10 years, even if you don't change the battery compared to a regular Civic as I have already shown.

jc11901

I have been lurking around observing the good math and objectivity applied to the Hybrid costs vs. conventional gas machines. I believe there are hidden costs that we all bear from burning fossil fuels that have not been accounted for. What are the costs to those seniors, children and others that suffer from respitory illnesses as a result of burning more fossil fuel than maybe necessary? How do we consider and account for the National Security costs? How do we consider the fuel we are wasting out of our tailpipes instead of leaving the remaining (finite) fossil fuels for our industies? Costs to giving subsidies to oil companies? As a society we pay dearly. Some are willing to pay more than others. I think most of us are on the right track. It is just a matter of being a little more vigilant about our purchases. Long term is, in my opiniion the best consideration. Thanks Joe.

rfruth

I don't doubt that the price quoted was correct, wonder how many will pay it ? Thank you for explaining the difference between the 12 volt lead acid battery and the HV battery but when someone walks up to the parts manager and says give it to me no doubt the'll get it !

aknight53

I need some help with my dilemma. I bought a 2003 Civic hybrid in March, thinking I could save quite a bit of money from fuel savings (going from a Jeep cherokee). I now find out that every 10,000 miles I need to shell out $100.00 for maintenance, with an (expensive) oil change in between. So much for any savings I thought I could get. My husband says I'm stuck with it, I would lose too much by trading it in so early. I did check with my dealer, I can get into a 2002 CRV for same payments, but it's a little bigger than I need. What I actually want is a hybrid all wheel drive which is not yet on the market. so, help, do I keep the car unhappily, or trade for a used gas guzzler? The 4 wheel drive is really important to me in the northern NY winters. Am I stuck?

john1701a

> This battery is not like a normal car battery type, there
> are not separate cells that can be changed.

WRONG!

There are 28 individual modules inside of the Prius battery-pack. Each is completely independent of one and other. In fact, an owner had one punctured by a (brainless) aftermarket speaker installer that didn't stop when he felt resistance. The hybrid system didn't even flinch. It just displayed a warning that a module was damaged (had a screw drilled into it). Everything continued to operate just fine without that module.

Honda will very likely adopt a similar design. They are following the same kind of development path Toyota did. Simply adding or subtracting modules is how they'll likely adapt IMA to work with other Honda vehicles with different power needs.

JOHN

jc11901

Hi, I too live in NY. I would trade my CRV for your Hybrid. Joe from Long Island.

dudka

I now find out that every 10,000 miles I need to shell out $100.00 for maintenance, with an (expensive) oil change in between.

How much were you paying for 10,000 mile service for the Cherokee? My 10,000 miles service is about $100 on the Civic Si at the dealer, My girlfriend paid $120 for 10,000 mile service on her Focus. Seems that your 10,000 mile service is right on par with the rest of cars. Do the maintenance your self and you will save a ton.

The oil change cost on the Civic Hybrid is comparable to other syntethic oil change prices. Have your husband do the oil change with Mobil 1 from Costco, for under $20. Heck, wallmart sells 5 quarts of Mobil 1 for $22-$25. I don't think the Civic Hybrid needs all 5 quarts.

If you have to have AWD hybrid, wait a year or so, Ford will come out with Hybrid Escape and I am sure Honda has one in the works too, along with Toyota.

aknight53

My Jeep didn't get serviced every 10,000 miles, it had regular oil changes and checks, tires rotated etc... but was never close to $100.00. It went trouble free for 3 years. We also had a mechanic friend who took care of us, I guess I'm reluctant to let someone other than the dealer touch the car since it is so different. The dealer charges an extra 10.00 for oil changes, maybe I should let our mechanic friend do it again. I also do not like the noisy and ineffective (at least to this new user) ABS brakes, anyone else feel the same about this?

bd21

Alright gang since I kinda started this battery issue, I decided to spend some time at the Toyota dealer today and do some research. Here is what I found out. The battery does cost over $5400 and it is a Sealed Nickel Metal Hydride battery with 6 cells and 28 Modules. The battery does not have a memory and it is supposed to last the life of the car. The only problem was they could not find anything in writing to verify that statement(believe me they looked everywhere). The modules are wired in series and they said they are replaceable independently. However, there is no price listing for separate modules and again nothing in writing they had to verify that. I drove last years Prius a year ago and I thought it was O.K., but a little small & underpowered. Today I drove the 04, what a change, much roomier and plenty of power. I think it is a sound car and well worth looking at, but I'm still not fully satisfied with the battery questions. I like facts, not "it's supposed to last" and "you can change cells". The service department told me all maintenance including oil changes, tire rotations, and any other checks is covered as part of the regular warranty. You don't pay anything for the first 3 years or 36k miles. He acted like that was the way Toyota packaged the Prius, but maybe this was just their deal here in Ft. Walton beach. They obviously like Prius's here, they have 72 on back order. The bottom line is only time will tell, but at least this discussion has put some considerations on the table.

hybriddriver

$5540 is the correct cost of a Prius battery pack. But isn't this a board for discussing the Civic hybrid? The Civic hybrid uses a smaller battery pack that only costs around $2,000. Still alot of money but much less than the Prius battery pack. The Civic hybrid battery pack is composed of 120 1.2 volt D cell nickel metal hydride batteries. Yes the same kind of D cell batteries used in flash lights. Except these are high energy density nickel metal hydride batteries and therefore cost about $16 each. You can actually go online and find the cheapest cost of these nickel metal hydride D cell batteries. If the pack ever goes bad, you can open it up, find out which cells are bad and just replace those. Plus Honda warranties the battery pack for 8 years and 150,000 miles. Certainly, you can make an argument that driving a hybrid will cost more than driving a fuel efficient "normal" car. But we must consider the actual costs here. Over the last century the earth has warmed up about one whole degree fahrenheit. Most scientists believe that most of this warming was caused by human activity - namely the burning of fossil fuels releasing heat trapping carbon dioxide into the earth's atmosphere. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that if this trend continues the earth will eventually get too hot for normal conditions. Scientists predict that if the earth warms up 4 to 6 degrees the polar ice caps will melt raising see levels 3 feet and submersing large amounts of costal areas and even some entire countries under water. Even before that happens scientists predict that the first catastrophic manifestations of global warming will be catastrophic weather changes. Deserts could see massive rain fall. Rain forests could become deserts. Crops could fail. Famine would sweep across the globe. I do not think that this is a future that we should leave for our children. More immediately, our dependence on foreign oil has led to a trade deficit, resentment of our country by others leading to the need for increased national security. The burning of fossil fuels also causes immediate health problems. As a society, we all pay for the national debt, increased national security, increased health care and we pay the worst way of all with our health. More children now than ever are suffering from asthma. More people than ever are suffering from other respiratory problems and perhaps lung cancer. As a hybrid driver, I am proud to do my part in helping to curb this activity. Even if it costs me a little bit more personally, I believe that it is worth it to reduce the cost to society as a whole. With our current technology, hybrids and as someone else mentioned, ultralight weight vehicles are the way to go now. How about ultralight weight hybrids? The ultimate solution will be a hydrogen economy were the only exhaust is harmless water vapor. But cars using that is probably 2 to 3 decades away.

bryceme

Currently renting 2004 Prius for a few days before considering purchase/lease. Not bad. Appears to be strongest (mileage wise) with a lot of stop and go traffic. I am not as impressed with prolonged highway speeds.

Has anyone driven both 2004 Prius and 2004 Honda Civic hybrid? Thoughts/ comparisons.

rfruth

I agree here we are worrying about battery packs (not that you shouldn't be concerned, it's a Civic hybrid forum lets talk about it) at the same time the price of crude is at a all time high (see below) over 50 percent of which is imported some from countries we'd rather not deal with, asthma and breathing problems are on the rise and if and when the sea level goes up we are in deep dukey. There are two Japaneese companies with high mileage low emmision cars but what is Detroit doing except laughing all the way to the bank ? Where are the 40 MPG Suburbans and Explorers ? They've been in the business 100 years and probably have R & D budgets that would make heads spin so I think they could do it if they wanted to but making next quarters numbers is top priority and we consumers snap them up after all the price at the pump is low...
 
- snip -
LONDON - U.S. oil prices slipped today, but the New Year's Eve session sealed 2003 as the most expensive year for oil prices in more than 20 years -- averaging $31 a barrel.
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/business/2329524

hybriddriver

I have been driving a 2004 Civic Hybrid for about 4,000 miles now. I have also test driven a 2004 Prius. Which one is right for you depends on you. For me, I chose the Civic because I liked the tight handling, good acceleration and it looks like a normal car. Mines has a continuously variable automatic transmission. The car finds the RPM that is right for the conditions and varies the output ratio to keep the car accelerating while engine speed remains constant. This results in a very smooth power delivery. The Prius has the same thing. I prefer a car that handles well and at least performs somewhat like a sports car. After all people do supe up Civics and race them. So that is why I bought a Civic Hybrid because I feel it is more fun to drive. The only real advantage of the Prius is that has more room. Except the sloping hatchback gives little head room in the back seats. What kind of mileage you will get depends on how you drive. If you go to consumerguide.com and look up the 2004 Prius, you will find that consumerguide only got 36.7 miles per gallon with the 2004 Prius. Well below the EPA rated 60 MPG city and 51 MPG highway. That is because they drove the car in performance testing and at high freeway speeds. Consumerguide got 39.3 MPG for the automatic Civic Hybrid and 47.6 for the manual transmission Civic Hybrid. In my experience with my automatic Civic Hybrid I am getting about 42 MPG. So I estimate that if I were to drive a Prius, I would get about 40 MPG. Seems to me that the Civic Hybrid gets better MPG in real world driving than the Prius - at least according to consumerguide.com. Perhaps if consumerguide would have driven the cars to maximize fuel economy, as many hybrid drivers do drive, the results would have been different. I am sure that there are Prius drivers out there getting 50 MPG or more. There seems to be something very fishy about the EPA ratings because my car is supposed to get 47/48 MPG in the city/highway. But even if I drive very carefully in the city to maximize fuel economy, I only get about 40 MPG in the city. I don't know how the EPA ratings are done, but they don't stack up to real world results. According to consumerguide, however, the manual transmission Civic Hybrid at 47.6 MPG does come close to the EPA estimate of 51 highway and 46 city. I live in the San Francisco bay area. I drive in stop and go traffic, keep up with fast moving traffic going up and down long hills and keep up very well with fast moving freeway traffic. At 42 MPG it is a fun and wonderful car to drive. Here is a link to the consumerguide review: http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/new/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/- - 37572

john1701a

> Seems to me that the Civic Hybrid gets better MPG in
> real world driving than the Prius

That's likely because the data you are comparing to is giving a false impression. Many 2004 Prius owners only have COLD WEATHER data to report, since they've only owned them during that season.

Once the weather finally warms up, you'll get the true story. Over the last 3 years, my Prius varied from low 40's in the winter to 50 MPG in the summer.

So just like when Civic-Hybrid came out, you have to wait to get enough data to draw a true picture of efficiency.

JOHN

hybriddriver

To see real data on an actual 2001 Prius and 2004 Prius go to http://www.john1701a.com
Thanks a lot John.

bryceme

At end of 2 day rental decided not to go with hybrid yet. Some intriguing aspects to Prius. Acceleration and handling quite good. Maybe just a problem with rental but on several occasions would not "start". Got all panel lights on. Took about 5 minutes of flicking power switch on and off.

Cold weather mileage (driving to work early AM for 45 mi. So. Cal commute) when temp 40 F gas mileage was only in high 30's. 10 mpg better on trip home at slightly higher speed when temperature 15 degrees warmer

This car is quite the ticket for normal rush hour stop and go traffic. Unfortunately, a fair amount of my miles on greater than 200 mile trips.

Realistically, longer trip at So. Cal highway speeds (at leat 70 mph with 75 mph more realistic) would likely result in average mileage under 40 mpg.

Final clincher was driving home after 13 hr. work shift. Seemingly adequate seat got uncomfortable about 35 min into ride.

Not sure I would try another small hybrid just yet but still hoping. Maybe an ultra clean diesel-hybrid is in the future.

john1701a

> Maybe just a problem with rental but on several occasions
> would not "start".

You forgot to step on the BRAKE PEDAL.

Not doing that means the power button will only start the accessories, not the hybrid system.

 
> would likely result in average mileage under 40 mpg

Using a non-broken-in car, with under-inflated tires, in the cold will yield low results. Actual owners that have racked up a number of miles now, carefully maintain tire PSI, and live in a warm climate have reported around much higher MPG at 70 MPH. Switching to synthetic oil helps too.

JOHN

pat

Folks, let's remember this is a discussion specifically about the Civic Hybrid. There are Prius discussions as well as more general hybrid (are they up to the chore?) conversations elsewhere in the Town Hall.

The search features on the left side of the page are outstanding - check them out.

:-)

hybriddriver

Have your mechanic friend do the maintenance for you. The Civic Hybrid should be cheaper to maintain than the jeep. The Civic only requires an oil change every 10,000 miles and the oil filter changed every 20,000 miles. I am sure you had the oil and oil filter changed in the jeep more frequently. Probably every 3000 to 5000 miles for both. Just let your mechanic friend look at your users manual that came with the car and he can do the job. The only thing that is important is to make sure that he puts in the specific weight oil specified in the manual. An oil too heavy in weight can damage the engine. Buy the oil from the dealer if you cannot find the specified weight oil anywhere else. Otherwise, it is just like maintaining a regular car. The hybrid part is virtually maintenance free. It just consists of a maintenance free motor/generator/starter, a maintenance free battery pack and the maintenance free IMA electronics. Your mechanic friend is more than up to the job. As for your brakes making noise, the only noise I have heard with my Civic hybrid is a soft whining sound from the motor/generator as it is slowing down the car. Kind of makes a cool turbine like sound as it is wining down. If you hear something other than that then there is probably something wrong. It might be that your brakes are worn down and you need a brake job. Again, have your mechanic friend look at it. The brakes on this car are just like any other car. If he determines that there is something defective, then you should take it to the dealer and have them fix it under warranty. ABS brake ineffective? Are you really braking so hard that the ABS is actually engaging? What I think you might be experiencing is the motor/generator disengaging below a certain speed and the engine auto stopping to save gas. After auto stop there is no longer any drag from the motor/generator to slow the car down and it feels like the car isn't stopping as quickly. That's perfectly normal. It happens at very low speeds, below the 4 MPH limit required for the auto stop to engage. Just realize what is happening and adjust the brake pressure accordingly.

hybriddriver

Please read post #517. You might find it helpful.
:-)

likramer

Dear Honda Civic Hybrid owners,

I recently made some inquiries to a couple of dealerships for the 2004 Honda Civic Hybrid car. I got the following quotes (please note these numbers do not include $100 processing fee, nor freight fee, nor tag fee).

For manual transmission: $16,954
For CVT transmission: $17,866

Are these price quotes good? What's the out of the door price that is reasonably good and I should bargain for?

Thanks a lot for your advice.

Li

hybriddriver

Those price quotes sound really good.

isellhondas

Something seems very wrong here.

Those prices are too low to make any sense.

likramer

So what's the regular out-of-the-door price for honda civic hybrid then?

Please note the price quotes I posted are not the out-of-the-door price. I think the final price will be in the 18K-19K for the CVT and 17K-18K for the manual transmission, if I add other fees and charges to the price quotes.

Thanks.
Li

larryi2004

My 2000 Civic VP will be paid off this fall. I've been considering buying a Hybrid, but after reading most of the discussions here I'm not sure it's a good idea.
My 2000 Civic VP gets 34 to 36 mpg. Consumer Reports (in their 2004 Buying Guide) shows that the overall mpg for the Hybrid 1.3 Four; CVT, is 36 mpg.
Why should I pay a premium price for a car that's supposed to deliver exceptional economy, if it doesn't get any better mileage than my present car?

isellhondas

The prices you posted are less then a dealer pays for the car so something is amiss.

Out the door prices will always vary according to local tax and license rates.

If you, indeed, can buy a hybrid for these prices I hope you have already snapped one up.