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Comments
So... are you going to tell people how much smaller a 6 year old vehicle was than a new one is now?
The fact alone that vehicle size has increased indicates that MPG would have dropped.
JOHN
I don't know how you accomplish that kind of mileage but I think I would hate to be behind you on an onramp!
gagrice...not trying to speak for "isellhondas", but he's been a great Edmunds contributor for quite some time based in Washington state.
I do expect your average MPG over time to hit what the professional reviewers and the averages most people are experiencing, though.
That is....about 40 MPG - 45 MPG...or about 10%-15% more than with a regular Civic.
I see people who keep detailed log books where they mark down every drop of gas bought, MPG, what they paid etc, etc....
Not me! Hey, whatever makes you happy, I suppose!
I enjoy reaidng these battles of the keystrokes, but hybrid technology is not there to save money, it is there to save the environment, and it is in its infancy. Originally all cars were electric, then ran on alcohol, then on gasoline. People did not think much of internal combustion in the late 1800's early 1900's. Electric was the way to go. Electric motors are more efficient that the most efficient Internal combustion engine, which produces parasitic heat in huge amounts.
With LEV, ULEV, PEZ, etc cars, even V8 SUVs, the amount of polutants have become nearly a non-issue with any of them. The issue has always been the amount of polutants that are emitted by either older cars on the road, or ones that haven't had proper maintenance.
I highly doubt that a carbeurated 1985 engine even well tuned, can control the air/fuel mixture as well as the modern OBDII compliant fuel injected engines. A carbeurated engine has no feedback from the exhaust side as to how much fuel has been burnt, while OBDII FI engine has an oxygen sensor to tell the computer how much fuel to add or remove from the next cycle. While too lean of a mixture is not good either. Knock sensor will prevent the FI system from destroying your engine internals from premature combustion (knock, ping). I highly doubt that a 1985 FI system can do all the fine tuning on the fly that a modern FI engine system does. The goal here is to have such a control burn that a catalytic converter is not needed. A 1972 Honda CVCC engine did not need a cat because it was burning so lean, but it was installed anyway to comply with the regulations. A 2004 Civic produces less pollutants in 200 miles than a 1985 Chevy sitting in a parking lot with the engine off. The most pollution your Civic does is when you fill it up at a station that has no vaccum vapor recovery system. As far as I know only metro NY and CA have them. You can tell a Vaccum vapor recovery fueling station by the double hose or a very thick filler hose with a rubber boot going over the nossle.
Hybrid Vehicles Chat Room
Immediately following at 6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET, we keep the chat party going with the Mazda Mania chat.
Mazda Mania Chat Room
The Town Hall chats are a great place to take these message board topics LIVE. Hope to see you there this week!
PF Flyer
Host
Pickups & News & Views Message Boards
No engine running at standstill/coasting/trafic
Smart Entry/Exit
Electric AC
Traction Control
CVT (much better than a conventional auto)
Vehicle Skid Control
Roomy rear seat
Bluetooth
Side curtains
Excellent crash ratings
Redundant buttons on steering wheel for climate/radio
The car suits me fine. If/When I get bored, I'll buy something else to park next to it. For now, I'm cool. Also LAUGHING at the morons bidding 30-31k on a UNLOADED Prius on eBay.
Prius?
Mercedes C320
Jeep Liberty
Subaru WRX
Audi Allroad
Audi A4
VW Cabrio
Ford Exploder Sport
Lexus RX300
I like the Prius the best out of the above. Go figure...
Next car/SUV.... Porsche Cayenne (sp) Turbo
Otherwise - anyone have any questions or comments on the HCH?
Civic hybrid is much better in that regard.
Sorry gang - stay on topic or create a new discussion where the posts belong. Otherwise I may not be so kind to move your posting but simply delete them.
What I like:
* Well-appointed interior
* Good rear-seat legroom
* Reasonable acceleration
* Good gas mileage the first 48 hours (44 mpg)
* Comfortable seating
* Good price (probably not usual for these cars right now)
What I don't like:
* Not as seamless use of electric as the Prius
(Might be because this car is stick, Prius I tested was automatic)
* A/C turns off at stop lights (just annoying, that's all)
* Minor mpg advantage over normal Civic
* No fold-down rear seat
* No exclusive use of electric power, like Insight or Civic
* Battery drains quickly (short 1.5-mile hill nearly drained it as it assisted the engine)
Since this is mainly a commuter car, most of my objections really don't swing me either way on the car. I like the car, but don't love it. The Prius I looked at was a sexier implementation of the technology, but the ridiculously inflated prices made me turn away.
Basically, I think of the HCH as a car that gets a little boost from the electric motor for speed and economy, and a car that stalls/restarts itself at stoplights to save gas. Since idling engines have always bugged me, the self-stall feature is a nice one for me. I'd rather sit in a drive-up line or a traffic jam with no engine noise. I just wish that it used the electric motor for low-speed activity the way the Prius does. This is probably only an advantage in places like L.A. where it's not unusual to be travelling under 20 mph for a fair portion of your commute.
-- James
i drive a cvt civic hybrid, and don't have any problem with the air
conditioning shutting off when auto stop initiates. i think the problem only occurs with manual civic hybrids, cuz i remember reading that somewhere
minor mpg advantage over normal civic
i'm getting around 42.0 mpg while the car is still new, and my friend who has an automatic ex is seeing around 31.0 mpg (he ran the car empty and took note of the miles, he also lives near me and commutes the same roads as i do). thats over a 10 mpg boost, and if you think about it in the long run, thats not just saving money, but also time at the pump, and doing mother nature a little favor
i do agree with you that the car really needs to have seamless electric power at speeds lower than 25 mph. but this would then be emulating the toyota synergy drive, which is all copyrighted and protected...so i dont think honda wants to dabble with that. the civic is not a true hybrid - it is a weak but efficient gas car with an electric motor that assists it when needed.
the battery also does drain quickly, but it also charges just as fast. it really needs to have twice the capacity. and greater power.
I'm getting upper 50's calulated tanks, more than 700 miles for 13 gallons of gas.
This is my best commute average.
This is not a few select tanks or trips, and I have not had a tank average under 53MPG since I owned the car.
They have a real mileage database at greenhybrid dot com that shows people's averages of all hybrid types and some non-hybrid cars.
Out of 37 HCH's there are 12 averaging over 50mpg. Good driving tips if you are interested in improving your MPG perforamance.
I would confirm with a tax pro, but I'll bet that's what they'll tell ya.....
My 2 cents..........:)
Second, the IRS rules clearly state you must retain ownership of the vehicle for a full 3 years.
Since your HCH is a 2003. $0 is the amount you can claim. Sorry. (Complain to the current administration for not having approved that bill for the hybrid incentives.)
JOHN
For example, for the people who took a $2000 deduction for the 2003 tax year, meaning they purchased a qualified vehicle before 12/31/2003, and then the car is totalled in January 2004 - are they then required to file an AMENDED return saying, "actually, I did not buy or use a qualified hybrid vehicle in 2003" ???
I'm looking on the IRS site to confirm, but I don't think "how long you have the car" is applicable. I may be wrong, but I doubt it....
Lars Bogart
"Sales or other dispositions. If you sell of otherwise dispose of the vehicle within 3 years after the date you placed it in service and know or have reason to know that it will be changed in any of the ways above, you are subject to recapture rules. In other dispositions (including a disposition by reason of an accident or other casualty), the recapture rules do not apply."
So, translated, that means that if you lose the car to an accident, you are not required to return the credit that you have taken in a previous year. So the three year rule applies for AFTER you have taken a deduction the first time.
What is DOES NOT SPECIFY is what is done if the car is lost to accident BEFORE you have taken a deduction at all.
That's where a tax expert could come in handy, because the still unanswered question is "do I get the first deduction in year one if I do not end the year with possession of the car?"
Lars
Comments?
Lars
http://www.detnews.com/2003/business/0311/18/c01-328385.htm
And yes, the current administration was involved with those.
JOHN
John, are you looking for a good political debate?
I would suggest that this forum is not the place for political topics or jabs, especially given the election year and firey potential.
Thanks
does anyone know the capacity of the tranny case, i.e. how much fluid
I need to buy to refill it if I drain it myself?
Thanks...
Split folding seatback is one thing the HCH does not offer, but REALLY, how many times is that feature ever used? I have had two cars with that feature and cannot remember using it more than once or twice if that much. Stick your item out the side window like 90% of other car owners are required to do if it's too big for the trunk.
The engine is slightly less powerful on the HCH - but who buys a civic as a hot rod? The 16-24 age group "ricers" are the only ones who might.
Rear seat cupholders are not available on the 2004 HCH - so I put in a $10 plastic console for my kids to use back there.
Radio antenna on the HCH is mounted on the roof and not in the back glass - big whoop.
Moonroof not avail for the HCH - another big whoop. Moonroofs are notorious for leaking, breaking, letting in heat - who needs the hassles?
Other than those minor items, the HCH and the EX compare quite well.
And another item is that the "premium" price paid for the Hybrid WILL come back to you at resale time - the history of cars in America shows that if a model in a car line (DX, LX, EX) SELLS for more when new, it will thus similarly sell for a higher amount at resale and/or trade-in time. A 2000 LX will not bring as much as a 2000 EX, right? Thus it stands to logic that a 2004 EX will not bring as much at resale as a 2004 Hybrid.
And how does anyone know that Hybrid technology is "more fragile?" That's just a guess, not based on anything factual.
The "long run" money savings are not that enticing in terms of quantity of dollars, but Popular Mechanics did a cross country trip with a gas Civic and an HCH and put a Hybrid at 1 cent per mile cheaper gas wise. That's not much, but a penny saved is a penny earned, is it not?
And who can put a price on the feeling one gets at every red light when YOUR car shuts off the gas engine and does not sit there and pollute while idling like 99% of the rest of the cars on the road?
So I would advise someone NOT to buy a Hybrid if their SOLE GOAL is to save MONEY - but some things are more important than money, like thousands of cars polluting less PER MILE, which the Hybrid does over every non-hybrid out there.
mytwocents.....
So go get them in trouble!