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GM Engine Knock

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Comments

  • sonjaabsonjaab Member Posts: 1,057
    GM ain't the only one trying to hide
    problems under the rug ! Take a trip
    over to www.tundrasolutions.com
    Quite a few toy boys crying about knocking
    I-force v8s....and lets not forget the
    sludge issue ! NO auto maker has troublefree
    vehicles.

    Sure up here in frozen NY I have the cold start
    knock..but now its summer NO KNOCK at all.
    ALL my cars and trucks from Caddies to Toyotas
    have had a cold start knock in winter time !
    And all the dealers said CONDITION NORMAL !
    LOL.....geo
  • rayt2rayt2 Member Posts: 1,208
    Mine knocks during every cold start, be it spring, summer, fall or winter makes no difference, lasts for up to a minute now and goes away.

    Will be passing through your way next Thursday on way to Kingston, Ontario Canada for the annual dog show/camping trip with wife and kid. Then again on 8/14 to Brockville, Ontario. I'll wave as we go over the bridge or might be able to stop for a quick brew. LOL

    Ray T.
  • sonjaabsonjaab Member Posts: 1,057
    I might be in the bay then. Doing phys. therapy
    3 times a week now in Oswego. Broke my shoulder
    ouch! Be sure to bring picture ID and all your
    vac.papers for your pets. The border guards are
    pretty picky now ! Don't for get to stop at the
    AMMEX store for cheap booze and cigs on the way
    over ! Remember to declare them on the way back.
    There is a new Can casino just between king. &
    Gan. off the 401..E-mail me let me know !....geo

    BTW: my motel is right next to the 1000 islands
    bridge exit 50 south off rt 81. Stop in for a
    pee break !
  • gator36gator36 Member Posts: 294
    Look at the GM Piston Slap website.

    Some apparent threats were made...


    http://www.angelfire.com/tx5/gmpistonslap/

  • rayt2rayt2 Member Posts: 1,208
    It goes to show if the shoe fits GM doesn't want to wear it, maybe this could be the best thing to happen because it WILL bring more attention to the issue with media coverage to boot, remember the exploding gas tanks GM Bully Boys???

    If you haven't registered your knocker more than ever we need you to do it now ladies & gentlemen ! There is going to be a class action down the road I smell it in the air !


    Do It Now, it's easy & costs nothing!

    http://www.angelfire.com/tx5/gmpistonslap/


    Ray T.

  • nomoregmnomoregm Member Posts: 158
    ...I mean GM is a great company. They boast all kinds of profits. They send thier company loyals on all kinds of trips to Vegas and such. Do you really want them to fix your cars and not do all that corporate fun stuff--instead? You are a bunch of party poopers. Buy GM. Eat it and swallow it like the rest of us did.
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    last post before yours was exactly one week...doh!
  • gator36gator36 Member Posts: 294
    No Suprise here, the Copper content was again over 3 times the average....
  • gator36gator36 Member Posts: 294
    Interesting thing I discovered.

    I was able to talk to a engineer at GM powertrain regarding Oil Samples. This was his job, oil sampling. Well, he got into alot about the methodology of sampling. The equipment used and the reports he has generated. The way this gentleman talked was very candid. What it comes down to, is the in one way he is suprised as to how low the copper in my oil reports have come back as he has seen up to three times that amount in normal oil samples.
    He is not suprised as to how low because of the sampling method used by the lab. Apparently the lab I used uses a plasma flame to burn the oil and then a gas chromatograph with give a spectrum analysis of the makeup. The flaw here is that larger particles will not burn and therefor are not represented. This is the "Cheap" method. Apparently the more expensive labs use a much more costly method that measures on a microscopic level.

    I did some checking and there appears to be alot of evidence to support this.
    As to where all of the copper is coming from? We will see as I have another conversation coming up...
  • rayt2rayt2 Member Posts: 1,208
  • cspauldingcspaulding Member Posts: 159
    I am finally rid of our '00 big block. (See WI lemon law) If anyone needs/wants some advice on BBB, let me know.

    One short note, BBB told me twice "Chevy says it's not covered by lemon law". I had to push BBB (even through my 20 work slips for the first 1 1/2 years) to even get them to set the hearing. Did the hearing in writing, which worked good. GM's only defense...the oil leaks from the side of the motor weren't related to the knocking (even though they were on the same side of the engine) and our visit in December of '00 wasn't in the first year of ownership (purchased in April '00).

    GM got an awakening from the decision, but still messed with us on the interest and collateral costs (which we never got).

    Chris
  • rangerwillierangerwillie Member Posts: 59
    I can't believe I'm asking you all this question. I've been reading all sorts of info here at Edmunds for several months now. Never posted until today.

    Here goes: Would anyone in this thread w/ the knocking problem still recommend a Silverado?

    I really like them, and my dad's has the 5.3 and he has no probems so far. Do you know more people who have the problem, or more people who don't? Is it possible to hear it in a relatively short time, or does it take over a year to crop up?

    Also, does anyone have any info/links regarding this problem in the 3.4 v6? We bought an Impala last year and so far, so good. But I've heard (a few times) that this engine is susceptible as well. Please respond.
  • noobie1noobie1 Member Posts: 326
    My truck is an 8.1L, 02 purchased in Sept 01. At about 500 miles I began hearing a ticking at start-up which I thought was dry lifters. It grew into a clatter as mileage increased, now 15,000, still only at start-up.
    More than likely all GM products are susceptible to this problem, although not all are afflicted. As rumor has it, EPA requirements are ever demanding fewer pollutants; Looser clearances are GM's solution. That's one problem. But what is even more aggravating is GM's response to customer complaints. It is a cynical mockery of the warranty system, making the warranty of little value when major complaints are simply defined as 'normal'.
    The truck? I love the thing, ha! You gotta give the engineers at GM a lot of credit. It's a great truck; However, in need of a few refinements. Would I buy one today? I recommend patience; Wait until you know for sure this problem is solved. I think eventually it will be if not already. To find out, talk to people with 03's with at least several thousand miles, talk to mechanics who work on them, and as you are doing now, use the internet.

    -David
  • nerdnerd Member Posts: 203
    I had a 2000 Sierra with the 5.3L engine. It started knocking at about 9000 miles. The dealer replaced the engine at 20,000 miles after a battle with GM. The replacement engine, reportedly with the new pistons, started knocking after about 5000 miles. Since I had been having so many other problems with the truck (15 visits to the dealer for warranty work in 19 months), and got a "go take a hike" response from GM, I traded it for a Mazda B4000 last February. The Mazda has been troublefee except for a failed trip odometer.

    I hope you have better luck than I did.
  • rangerwillierangerwillie Member Posts: 59
    noobie1,

    As far as the '03 goes, I just saw one on the lot today... they're now using the front end off the avalanches (or it looks similar anyway). Uggggly, IMO. I wasn't in any hurry to buy one. Now I don't know if I would, even if they do finally solve the piston slap problem after 3 long yrs. The new look is a big mistake for chevy. At least for my business it is.

    I thought they were (GMC/Chevy) the best looking trucks out there. Followed by Ford/Tundra (I lump them together b/c so similar, Toyota obviously copied F-150, and rightfully so since it is the best selling vehicle for so long). I thought the new Rams were way overdone. Like a big pig snout. I was just starting to get used to them. Now, the new Chevy is actually making me think they look good!
  • rangerwillierangerwillie Member Posts: 59
    I love the ranger/b-series trucks. I think the mazda's look better, so good choice. I understand they also offer slightly more warranty protection. My friend had a used B4000, '94 I think. He loved it. I loved it.

    Only problem ever w/ the Mazda was a leaking tranmission (5 spd). It was very common. A seal leaked in transmissions built in Japan (I think). They usually replaced the seal. My friend went all over town till he finally found a freeze plug that fit in the hole. No more leak, and probably a longer term solution than a new seal :)

    My dad's '88 Ranger (2.9 L, 5 spd) had the same problem, and it is the only major prob. he's had w/ it so far (replaced water pump and heater core also). He still has the truck.

    I want an extended cab that people can actually take trips in. This ruled out most small trucks, the Tundra, and the old Rams. The F-150 supercab is OK, but the seat back is too straight for more than 30 mins. or so. Chevy is best choice, IMO. Anyone know how the Dakota quad is? The leg room looked great on paper, but I've yet to sit in one. I will have to look at the new Ram also. An SUV would fit as well, but I'd rather have a bed.

    As a side note, I hate when seats are low slung, like you're sitting on the floor w/ your legs sticking straight out. The Isuzu Rodeo, Nissan Pathfinder and Xterra really annoyed me in this respect. Tacoma wasn't great for me either. They felt more like sports cars than SUV's or trucks. Must be a Japanese thing.

    I loved the Isuzu Trooper, though. Best SUV I test drove, overall. I may get one of those, if they're still selling around 20K when I buy. I hear they're very reliable. And no engine knock. I think the engine (3.5 L DOHC) is GM sourced too! :)

    Sorry for getting too off topic w/ last 2 posts, pf_flyer.
  • nerdnerd Member Posts: 203
    You sound like an informed buyer.

    I don't know why Ford won't upgrade the rear seat on the F150. It is the reason my wife didn't like my '95 Supercab (otherwise a fine truck). I guess Ford wants to push buyers to a Supercrew.

    I did consider the Dakota before buying the Mazda. I had some concerns with Dakota reliabiity and gas mileage, but guys I know who have Dakotas have had good service from them and haven't complained about gas mileage. The local Dodge dealers aren't too great - another reason why I got the Mazda. The Dakota might be the best buy for you. I agree with you on the styling of the new Rams.

    By the way, my Mazda has a 5-spd automatic made by Ford in France.

    I see you live in Lubbock - GO TECH!
  • rangerwillierangerwillie Member Posts: 59
    "I see you live in Lubbock - GO TECH!"

    Heck yeah! We might surprise some this year. Unfortunately OU and UT are prob. out of reach. A&M will be motivated after what happend last year (and it's at Kyle Field- darn). Also, we have a top 5 strength of schedule, a rarity for us (especially as far as non-conference goes), oh no!

    If you don't mind my asking, what part of TX are you from? What dealer did you get your truck at? Did you have more problems w/ dealer, or w/ GM?

    I've been hearing the dealers are nice enough, but their hands are tied (GM). Was that your experience?
  • txyank1txyank1 Member Posts: 1,010
    and thought rear leg room very comparable to the back seat in my Sierra. Just narrower. My problem was I couldn't get the driver's seat adjusted to where it was any where near as comfortable as mine. And of course I was disappointed in MPG ratings. That's where GM has a BIG edge - Power/Economy. If they just get the knocking problem fixed. Fortunately mine doesn't do it......yet.
  • nerdnerd Member Posts: 203
    I purchased my GMC from Lively in Longview. They treated me very well; in fact, they fought the battle to have GM replace the engine in my Sierra. And, they were always arranged appointments promptly and provided a rental car for overnight. Had it not been for them, I would not have stayed with GM as long as I did. It was the treatment I got from GM customer service that ended everything.

    I know a lot of guys who own GMCs, and none of them have complained to me about their dealers. You are right in assuming that GM ties their hands. On the other hand, warranty work provides steady business for a GMC dealer. It is only when a customer walks away from GM does a dealer really suffer.

    I did find the local Ford dealers to be jerks in general. Three of them tried to make me deals on a new F-150; all three offers were so bad as to be insulting. That's another reason why I chose a Mazda.
  • rangerwillierangerwillie Member Posts: 59
    Yeah, what you said makes sense. Dealers have no motivation to screw you over- it's GM who suffers (paying the Dealer) from all the warranty work. That's why the bigger problems they have are the ones they try to cover up...

    I guess what I meant was, it seems like most people I know have better experiences at GM dealerships than others. Too bad GM has to screw it up.
  • rangerwillierangerwillie Member Posts: 59
    ...worst treatment we got (as young, obviously first time new car buyers) was also at a Ford store. Pollard Ford in Lubbock.

    We were looking at the Taurus. At the time (2001), base models were advertised (written on the window) for around 16,500 after rebates at another dealer- Gene Messer Ford in Lubbock. This was not selling price mind you, though it was a decent deal. This was MSRP - rebates and incentives. The one we wanted was just above base model, advertised at Gene Messer for around 17,000.

    Well, the salesman at Pollard made us test drive the one we wanted, then brought us in- even though we told him 3 times we were not buying till 4 weeks later (we wanted to save some money).

    He wanted to know what payments we were looking for. We said, "we aren't looking for payments- what's your best price?" He looked straight at us and said, "how does $410 /month sound (on a 60 month loan). Yeah right. (financing was already really low at this time- Sept. 2001 and we had a trade in and planned on a down payment)

    We said,"we told you we aren't loooking for payments, we have financing already, but if we were, $410 a month is ridiculous- and it certainly does not come from your best price. We said, "$410 a month is too much for MSRP on that car, and we know there are rebates on it." He said, "It does? Hold on." He leaves, for a loooong time, then comes back and says
    "I spoke w/ my manager and you're right, it does have a rebate. How does $390 a month sound?" We said "how does around $330 a month sound?" He said, "I can do a lease for that."

    We left.

    At home, we ran the numbers on a loan for $17,000 for 60 months at 6.5% (from our bank)- it was $353/month. That was w/ tax and all, and w/out our trade in or down payment. And that price was MSRP essentially (only giving us the rebate, no special "deal"). He was trying to get us to pay at least $40/month over MSRP on a 5 yr loan!

    What a waste of 1.5 hrs!

    We happily bought an Impala from Scoggin-Dickey Chevrolet in Lubbock in October.
  • cspauldingcspaulding Member Posts: 159
    Here in Wisconsin we dealt with a Ford dealer and Chevy dealer in the same small town (around 4,000 people) - The Chevy dealer was full of bs, while the Ford dealer was more like an old time dealership, and has bent over backwards with our new truck. Guess they all have good and bad.
  • rangerwillierangerwillie Member Posts: 59
    You're exactly right.

    Dealerships are ran by people- and unfortunately some people are not very nice. That is why the next time I buy a vehicle I won't mind going to look at Fords again.

    In fact, Pollard Ford might be a good dealer overall. But I probably won't go to that specific dealer again, just as a matter of principal.
  • rangerwillierangerwillie Member Posts: 59
    Anyone heard of a 2003 that knocks yet?
  • gator36gator36 Member Posts: 294
    I had the opportunity to drive a 2003 2wd 4.8l silverado for 2 days. My wifes car was in the body shop and the only 2 rentals were either a Mercury sable or the 2003 silverado... No brainer...
    This truck was apparently less than a month old.
    With less than 1500 miles on it I think I heard the dreaded piston slap. It is hard to tell. It seems that GM is getting very sly on this one. The 2003's are all drive by wire and it appears that cold, the PCM commands a higher idle than previous years. This may be to heat up the pistons quicker at an idle that would not present the piston slap.
    Starting it up yeaterday morning it idled at 1100-1200 rpms for about a minute. My 2001 does not flare that high for nearly as long....

    Walter
  • ryanbabryanbab Member Posts: 7,240
    wow 1100-1200 rpms at startup?

    Mine is at likr 5-600 in the warmer temps and 1000 in cold temps
  • gator36gator36 Member Posts: 294
    The rpms really blew my mind. This was first thing in the morning here in So Cal. Temp was approximately 61 degrees. Truck parked outside all night.

    Looks like the new taillights will fit on a 2001.
    Also the 2003's have the lighted entry on them.
    If it is dark enough they will light the DRLs and revers lights. This truck had the curbside lights under the mirrors.
    Some cool new things. Even though I don't like the window switches..
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    how's the mirror paint holding up? Any new dings?
  • txyank1txyank1 Member Posts: 1,010
    I bought a couple sheets of carbon fiber style vinyl to cover the chrome on my mirrors. Haven't put it on yet. I talked to a local window tinting shop about putting it on but our hours conflict. Hate to screw it up myself! Think I'm hearing the early signs of the dreaded "knock". 22k miles now and hear some noise occasionally on startup that doesn't last but a few seconds. But it is a new sound.
  • rayt2rayt2 Member Posts: 1,208
    If your keeping the truck for any length of time document it and register at the piston slap sight as well as GMCS. Also report it on the NHTSA website too! GM isn't gonna do anything till their forced to for this "normal" condition as your well aware, but the first step comes from the consumer! Mine is getting louder as time goes on and didn't rear it's head till around 17k. I think the fact that Iv'e been using my 6000 lb. travel trailer more has something to do with it since the engine works alot harder when I'm towing. When I start it up cold after a workout you'd think it was a diesel. My biggest concern is RESALE value when I'm ready to sell. I would not buy a knocker from a used car dealer or private party period! Common sense would tell me otherwise. So how do I get rid of the truck when it's time??? This is the problem WE will all face when that time comes, degraded value because of the knock and GM could care less they already got your hard earned $$$. I could always donate it to my fire department for a live burn drill, but you get my drift.

    Ray T.

    Ray T.
  • ryanbabryanbab Member Posts: 7,240
    Obyone: They are holding up better than i thought. I was going to repaint them after my 1500 miles trip (round) to NC. However i only have 1 or 2 small chips (which i added some touch up paint to).
  • cspauldingcspaulding Member Posts: 159
    You may want to pursue Lemon Law if you meet the requirements ... at least here in Wisconsin, one of the items that qualifies you is a loss in value - the arbitrator definitely sided with us on ours. LOL.
  • xyz71xyz71 Member Posts: 179
    I HAD a small knock at start up - lasted 5-10 seconds - truck had about 22K. I took a
    trip - about 3K miles - I am not a slow driver -the first 700 miles took 10 hours - including
    stopping for BR breaks and gas, I was driving 85-90 MPH and still getting passed. Also spent
    time driving in Rocky mountains - truck in 4x4 -snow covered road. This was by far the most
    difficult miles I have put on the truck.
    BTW - I switched to M-1 before the trip -
    When I left Houston the temp was 90 degrees - the first start up in Colorado was -10 (truck sat
    over night). I expected to hear a loud knock at start up - but engine was quiet. My knock is gone
    - and has not returned - I now have over 33K on the truck.
    The only time I hear a knock now is after changing the oil - lasts about 3 seconds - and I consider
    this normal.
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    BR break?
  • xyz71xyz71 Member Posts: 179
  • rayt2rayt2 Member Posts: 1,208
    C- Lemon Law no good in NY after 18 months or 18k miles so I'm S.O.L. on that one. That's why I would have to take the approach of consumer fraud by GM on me the poor cheated consumer ! LOL

    XYZ, Driving high speed or in 4 wheel drive is not the same to me as pulling a 6600 lb. trailer over hill and dale at speeds of 70-75 mph. I've logged 2500 miles on truck pulling this trailer this year and it's definately made a difference in the audible and longevity of my knock issue.I also only had the knock initially for 5-10 seconds, now it lasts much longer and is much louder too! One thing you've done I have not is switched to M-1 oil, maybe I'll try it but never was one to believe in syn oils especially at the price they get for it.

    Ray T.
  • lneillneil Member Posts: 9
    Old story. I had a 1998 GMC sierra 4x4 z71 that had the engine knock everyone here is talking about.
    119 days in the shop, 3 engines. Insulted by the regional rep, yelling at a friend of mine who owned a fleet of GM trucks, "IT'S NOT A GM PROBLEM". Sounds
    like GM still doesn't care about it's customers.
    The reason why my trucked rapped, the oil journals where drilled incorrectly in the crank shaft. GREAT!!! in all 3 engines. Talk about premature wear out.
    Dumped my GMC.
  • xyz71xyz71 Member Posts: 179
    I do not understand why my knock went away - I had put maybe 300 miles on the truck - with M-1 before the trip - it did nothing for the knock.
  • rayt2rayt2 Member Posts: 1,208
    Sometimes the disappearance of the noise is just before it grenades itself............. only kidding, but it's odd that yours went away. All the machine shops I've talked to say the slap is abnormal and is causing premature wear to cylinder walls and piston skirts. Not to say what the wrist pins may be feeling thru all this clatter. GM knows it, but hey, to them whats a few 100,000 defective units w/a knock compared to 2 million without it. I hope mine gets me to the ten year mark then time for new, only time will tell plus the expense of an extended warranty for peace of mind.

    Ray T.
  • eric2001eric2001 Member Posts: 482
    XYZ's issue was "carbon buildup" that was burned off with higher rpms. Still has me wondering if the start-up noise is piston slap or not...
    -Eric
  • rayt2rayt2 Member Posts: 1,208
    Maybe carbon on XYZ's but what would you call mine ?? After a 360 one way camping trip pulling my travel trailer the engine had plenty of work out to burn off any carbon that might have been there. My truck has never had the carbon issue just the piston slap problem. IMO any vehicle that is building up carbon deposits from new has a computer/emissions issue going on that should be addressed not a decarboning every 10k miles, that's a bunch of GM BS for not wantng to address the problem, just mask it and hope the customer gets disgusted enough to give up the fight and go away. What ever happened to honesty and integrity in business, or was that something of generations ago! Oh that's right I forgot about Enron, World Com. etc, etc, etc.........I need a drink !

    Ray T.
  • cspauldingcspaulding Member Posts: 159
    GM wishes everyone would go away, but they were shocked when we didn't get another GM to replace the Lemon.
    Chris
  • eric2001eric2001 Member Posts: 482
    Were you running higher rpm's? I thought XYZ was running down into 3rd alot on his trip, keeping the revs around 4k, plus he added cleaners I thought...

    As for GM, well I received the semi-worthless 6/75 Major Guard, not that it will do any good. Bumper to Bumper $0 deductible is worthless if GM won't admit there is a problem.

    Enough ranting, pour me a glass.
    -Eric
  • solagratiasolagratia Member Posts: 1
    Anybody??
  • rayt2rayt2 Member Posts: 1,208
    I tow in 3rd gear tow/haul mode only, revs are around 2900 rpm I believe @ 70-75 mph, once in a while on a long hill climb if I haven't built up a head of steam it will kick down to second gear, then I pull 4500rpm's.

    Ray T.
  • rayt2rayt2 Member Posts: 1,208
    I have tried using O.D. but the tranny is constantly shifting in doing so, that will cause overheating of the trans which is not a good thing. 55 mph in 3rd tow/haul is when the trans usually drops down into 2nd gear bringing the revs up to 4500 on those long hills, so I try to anticipate to avoid the 2nd gear drop. You should hear that 5.3 scream when it does though! Then the next cold start-up it knocks like crazy for a couple of minutes.

    How did you manage to get the 6/75 major guard?? Did you have more issues then just the piston slap? Worthless is right, since they tell you everything is normal to avoid doing anything!
    The glass is poured and waiting for ya LOL.

    Ray T.
  • noobie1noobie1 Member Posts: 326
    Curious:
    Does anyone know whether receiving an extended warranty for the knock issue may disqualify one from consideration in the event of a future settlement of a class action law suit? I'm wondering if it could be argued that the extended warranty is a valued compensation already received. Any opinions? Any lawyers out there?

    -David
  • sonjaabsonjaab Member Posts: 1,057
    Be on the lookout for Marsha7. He is a lawyer
    and posts around !...............geo
  • noobie1noobie1 Member Posts: 326
    Gotcha. Thanks
This discussion has been closed.