GM Engine Knock

sonjaab

Prob. cause Mr. GM couldn't drive
the T/A personally and couldn't
feel the tuned port stumble from
idle ! Or get wet from leaking T-tops !
The vette still no GM guy in person !
Ever try and watch a 300 lb. lady
TRY and get in it ?
LIke I said I TOOK my lumps and dumped
them.
Since its been years I will have to
search..for the paperwork ! But now I
guess the process ain't much different !
good luck again .........geo

BTW: New Chevy I'll be there commercial
is on now !.......lol

bphose

HELLO TO RAYT BY NOMOREGM: (message from bphose@cs.com) please e-mail help if possible.

I SAW YOUR MESSAGE ABOUT YOUR ARBITRATION. MY FATHER IS GOING TOMORROW FOR THE SAME THING ON HIS 2001 3500 SILVERADO CHEVY TRUCK. ANY SUGGESTIONS ON WHAT HE SHOULD BRING OR DO. DO YOU KNOW OF ANY WEBSITES WHERE HE CAN GET GOOD INFO TO HELP HIM. HIS GAS MILEAGE IS ABOUT 5.8 TOWING AND ABOUT 8 WHEN NOT TOWING. HE IS SUPPOSED TO GET ATLEAST 12.2 PER THE SALES PERSON AND OTHER ARTICLES HE'S READ. POOR FUEL MIXTURE IS CREATING SOOT ON THE INSIDE AND OUTSIDE OF THE EXHAUST PIPE. TRANSMISSION IS NOT RIGHT. BURNING OIL SOMETHING AWFUL. NO ONE WOULD ADMIT A PROBLEM. ARBITRATION IS ON 6/14. IF YOU SEE THIS AND HAVE ANY IDEAS PLEASE E-MAIL ME AT BPHOSE@CS.COM. THANKS FOR ANY HELP.

rayt2

Try here for some info http://www.angelfire.com/tx5/gmpistonslap/index.html

 and hopefully NoMore will give you some advice also.

Ray T.

nomoregm

I will e-mail you as soon as I gather everything I have and copy it into the message for you. I'm no expert but I have spoken to one. There is no guarantee of a win but you may have a better chance. I'll be in touch in about 1 or 2 hours with a package.

nomoregm

No, Sonja--honestly never tried to get a 300-pounder in a vette. However, I do believe they give up the title, "lady", after reaching 275 lbs. "Hereford", then substitutes. Saw that on the Man Show, I think.

I do respect you for trying. And in keeping on topic: I can see why you need a pick-up with more power than the Tundra. :_ )

Sounds like you could have appealed to the Dept of Agriculture!

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

sonjaab

At both my hearings there was me, a
old retired guy, the 300 lb lady, and
the GM guy on the phone !...LOL
Got the JAMB each time !.....geo

jpfltaw

I took a sales brochure with me to my 99 shakerado hearing. Every time the GM rep, on a speaker phone, brought up that something was normal. I'd respond with " show me on what page in your sales brochure that [ defect / complaint ] is normal for a truck". The arbitrator was also a retired guy, he really liked that. All of the repair tickets and a written log, visits - conversations, actions or inactions.

To make it, short. I won !!

nomoregm

Nice touch. Good advice--bring everything. Did you get a buy-back? Did they give you the right amount of dough using the mileage deduction or did they try to sosk you for more because of non-issues like they do with a lease?

skid3

After using conventional oil in a pickup for 18,000 miles I switched to synthetic. The synthetic leaked thru the seals and gaskets more than the conventional oil had. after 9,000 miles I switched back to conventional oil. the truck has over 102,000 miles to date with no oil problems.

skid3

I refer to this discussion from time to time to check for posted news about whether or not GM has corrected the engine knock problem in current production models. I wish to buy a new Chevy pickup, but hesitate until I find that engines now in production have been corrected. Does anyone have current information?

allchevy

Skid3 Don't buy your new GM truck unless you like feeling embarrassed every time you start it up.
The "Professional Grade engineers" are still out at school learning to build engines like GM used to be able to do.

obyone

"The "Professional Grade engineers" are still out at school learning to build engines like GM used to be able to do."

One of the knockers is the 5.7 which has been around longer than I can remember. Does that mean they never knew how to build engines?

lwittorf

I said I would post when I found out what GM was going to do about my knock. Well today I got my 100 k warranty. the whole engine is covered internally except for abuse so I guess that is all right. All I did was tell them if I didn't get a warranty a Dodge or Ford would be in the drive way. They said they would bend the rules and just send the warranty even though the shop manager couldn't hear the rattle. YOU CAN GET IT IF YOU LET THEM KNOW YOU ARN'T GOING TO PLAY GAMES. Good luck all.

tomh12

On June 12, you posted that you would have your arbitration results in 5 days. What is the verdict? I hope congratulations are in order.
Tom

noobie1

Me too, but this silence is making me pessimistic.

-David

rayt2

Gip M has got the postman locked up so he can't deliver the good news to Nomore! LOL

Ray T.

nomoregm

Nothing yet--you know I'm checking that mail religiously---LOL! I think the arb said 5-days for his decision but maybe it takes more time to process--not sure. The more time goes by the less optimistic I get, though.

obyone

with a phone number to call just for these situations. Moreso if it got lost in the mail by the USPS which isn't so unusual nowadays.

guy21

As I remember the process from last year, the arbitrator is usually independent from the BBB. He has 5 business days to get his decision back to the BBB for processing and distribution. Then, as GM is paying for the process, they would get a copy of the decision before the consumer will. Don't be surprised if they appeal it before you even get a copy. And yes, there should be a phone number (usually 800#) you can follow up on at this point. Good luck.

rayt2

Back in 88 when I went thru this with GM on the 86 Lemon pickup, I waited 2 full weeks for the decision from arbitration hearing to come in the mail. It was also in my favor ! That's when I ordered the first year run of the new body style and Ext. cab, something I always said I wouldn't do was first model years. That truck went 120k before I sold it. The Rado I waited a model year and low and behold they still ain't got it right.....go figure!

Ray T.

rayt2

Back in 88 when I went thru this with GM on the 86 Lemon pickup, I waited 2 full weeks for the decision from arbitration hearing to come in the mail. It was also in my favor ! That's when I ordered the first year run of the new body style and Ext. cab, something I always said I wouldn't do was first model years. That truck went 120k before I sold it. The Rado I waited a model year and low and behold they still ain't got the engine gremlin worked out yet.....go figure!

Ray T.

jaguar0027

I'm anxiously awaiting your verdict! Best of luck to you pal! I hope one day we can all get rid of our knockers and get a GM engine we can all be proud of having... you know like they used to make em!

We should still all try to get together and get on Dateline, or some other nationally televised show. I think that may give corporate GM scumbags something to think about!

nomoregm

...GM claiming in their C5 article, that the internet created all this [non-permissible content removed]. But we all see that GM is advertising all over the internet creating their own version of crap with messages like, "We'll be there" and "Pro-grade". Makes me GD sick. We are real people--they are an entity. An entity with glutinous CEO's that are not only bringing their own companies down, but the stock market entirely.

Fact is, I've lost much more in the market than my POS Camaro is worth and I'm sure you have also. It's a matter of principle that we fight on. Oby, you once said to me to take my knocks and move on. Thats what these bastards want, not only in the car industry, but in every facet. No way, no more. No more.

Remember the USS Liberty.

PAman

First, I've heard this arguement before. It is almost identical to the mold problem we are having to deal with here in Texas. The insurance companies are squealing like stuck pigs over having to pay out thousands, sometimes millions, on houses with mold infestations. Sometimes, the variety of the mold growing in the house is deadly. When a big company suddenly has to honor their policies, warranties or guarantees to the tune of several million dollars, they get nervous.

As for your situation, when they claim that the Internet cause all of this, you can answer, yes, and there are also people on the Internet that think Roswell is a government coverup, Elvis is alive and the FBI killed JFK.

The difference is that there's not an alien space ship parked outside in the parking lot with Elvis driving it, but there IS a knocking GM pickup, which GM has already acknowledged in other buyback cases and in several Technical Service Bulletins. Then ask them if the Internet created those TSBs, or were they the result of independent customers that don't know each other and have never heard of this forum from around the country, dissatisfied with their $25K-30K trucks taking them back to their dealer, naively believing their trucks were "like a rock" and that GM/Chevy would "be there" because they are "professional grade?"

And, oh, by the way, don't forget to offer to let the arbitrator drive the truck around the block or on the freeway.

Good luck!

Joe

guy21

During my arbitration, the GM rep tried to discredit the fact that I was knowledgeable and well prepared by saying I had relied on the Internet. He said it contains mostly false information. Let's see; if numerous independent sources (customers) are all saying the same thing as you are or having the same experiences with the product, who has the truth on their side? As PAman says, when you match that up with GM's own documents there is a pretty good case.

nomoregm

Fixing our engines would not have broke GM. Companies, especially insurance companies can sometimes go 12 feet out on a four-foot board for lack of knowing the future.

Estimates are that this is a 30-million problem for GM. They have opted to sweep it instead. Their annual profits average 200 million--if we can trust their accountants.

If taking this thing in the "shorts" meant saving GM, for the big-picture's sake, I would gladly withdraw. It's purely a profit motive. They have calculated that no one will notice what's going on while they save a few bucks at the expense of loyal, red-blooded Americans. The Corporate world has shown us that justice is theirs, and Big government has joined forces with them.

They attack the internet--the very tool they use to capture our admiration and propensities. They fear the internet, it's one means of communication which they have limited control of, so far. If GM says that most of the internet is BS, I would agree by default that their theory applies to their own add-blitz, categorically. For now, I guess, I'll go watch TV, where, according to GM, I can get a higher ratio of truth to mendacity. Give me a effing break. No more, please GM, Nomore.

allchevy

Keep rollin fellow Americans...Consumers run corporations, not the other way around.
Knock on!!

nomoregm

You know, I just came from a big union party. We celebrated that fact that we beat some union- busting bunch of a-holes from Texas who tried to settle in the North East. It was poetry in motion. Just like you said--consumers run corporations. Consumers who work hard for the very corporations they purchase from.

Ask the check-out lady at your local wall-mart if she or he feels like they run the corporation.

And, please...consider changing your username. It doesn't look good on you.

tomh12

I think the slow reply to your arbitration may be in your favor. After all, how long does it take to say "get lost." BUT, to verify lost value could take a while.
Tom

obyone

forgot about it.

allchevy

You made me think it must be tough for UAW members to knowingly assemble the junk parts that make up a knocking engine.
But it's outside their contract to say anything to the mindless GM executives that design and authorize building thousands of defective engines.
Enron..MCI...General Motors....one has to wonder?

By the way all I own are chevys, all old style small blocks, when a piston had skirts, and a knock was abnormal.

Good luck on your arb..a house divided will not stand.

rayt2

Just talked to a guy today who bought a 01 Avalanche, he says it's using a qt of dino juice every 1400 to 1600 miles, guess what the dealer told him ............ it's normal ! He says he does not have the knock issue though.

Ray T.

burnsome

I'm new to the forum and just wanted to pipe in on my experiences. My 2001 Z71 Silverado started knocking on cold engine starts at around 15K miles. The dealer said it might be lifter noise, but i decided to change the oil myself from 5W-30 to 15W-50 during this hot summer down here in Georgia. Dealer said they use 5W-30 per the manual instructions. Anyway, the engine noise has completeley gone away after chaning to Mobil 1 oil in 15W-50. I dont know why, but it is so. I plan to try 10W-30 in the colder months to see if the noise comes back.

nomoregm

tomh12

And it is....?
Tom

nomoregm

And at least one arbitrator says to GM: "NomoreGM's knocking engine is NOT NORMAL!" NomoreGM has prevailed. My arbitrator agreed further that GM has lost its chance for a final repair attempt because they should have known the vehicle was a POS after the 4th service-repair attempt.

They must buy it back, including sales tax ($2k) and finance charges to-date.

Thanks to all of you for your previously posted congratulations. And many thanks to the Better Business Bureau--they indeed can do the heavy lifting.

jaguar0027

Glad to hear the decision was in your favor! It's nice to see the 'little guy' win against a jerks over at GM!

Best of luck with your next vehicle. BTW, what did you plan on replacing your Camaro with?

noobie1

Hearty congratulations, finally. Your a great example of persistence and hard work paying off. And, I'm sure I speak for many that your contribution here is very valuable and encouraging. Thanks a lot.

-David

sonjaab

GOOD for yoU! Better luck with your next
vehicle...............geo

guy21

Good work, by you and the BBB. Did you get a full price buyback or the miles driven out of 100,000 adjustment? If it was adjusted, did they use the mileage at the first repair attempt or the mileage at some other point?

nomoregm

Guy12, they used the mileage that was on it at the time of the arbitration hearing. I'm not sure but I think they can re-adjust that to reflect any additional miles I put on it before actually turning it in. If you sue outside of the BBB with a private lawyer, you can be awarded the full purchase price plus other expenses but with the free service of the BBB, you must take the deduction for miles based on 100k. I will be awarded my sales tax in full and my finance charges tho---Sahweet!

Hmmmm...right now I don't want to buy any new car. Just another used car like the ones that I had before that gave me fewer headaches. If they are not going to honor warranties in this country any more, then I'll buy "as is" from now on and save myself some money in the process.

I'm truly tired of being pushed around by big-auto service thugs who think they're so slick and savvy. And I know this is a family site but they can all kiss my [non-permissible content removed]! You can bet the rest of my family won't be buying another one either after they saw how it affected me (and them for that matter). Watch your wallets and purses people. Americans have to stand up en masse and let these car makers know that they can't crap on us any more.

Thanks again, BBB! Keep up the good work.

Study the lemon law in your state--most are similar. Be sure you satisfy all the criteria prior to your arb and you will stand a good chance of wining, I now believe.

PAman

That truck will be on a used car lot sometime soon. So, if you wouldn't mind, would you please list a full description of the truck, including the color, model and VIN? Many dealers out there will NOT do the ethical thing and disclose it is a GM buyback--they only tell each other that at the private auctions.

Pity the next fool that buys your truck--unless they put a new crate motor in it.

Joe

jaguar0027

Nomore has a camaro not a truck. The GM 'normal knocking' is not just in the Rado's. I've heard it in Camaros's Grand Am's Denali's etc....

So.. nomoregm if you post, give us the nitty gritty about that knocking Camaro you have!

rayt2

Like I said the longer they take with a decision the better for you, as obviously was the case. GM may think they can pull the wool over our eyes but not to the educated consumer they can't!!

Ray T.

kg11

rayt2

You signed on the dotted line, GM says......gotcha ! LOL

Ray T.

nomoregm

I'm no lawyer but, if you've satisfied all of the criteria under your state's lemon law, that is, a certain number of repair attempts (usually 3 or 4) and/"OR" certain number of days out of service (usually 15-30)--all within the first year of ownership (called, "term of protection"), then you should have 3 years from the date of purchase to be qualified for a lemon law claim. The BBB only requires that the vehicle be under current warranty to file a claim. They use the states' lemon laws as a guideline to decide their cases. Go for it.

gator36

Look at this info:

"2002 Trailblazer, Envoy, Bravada (GMT 360/370) S, T 2002 Equipped with the 4.2 L LL8 Engine Knock Noise During Intial Start-Up in Cold Ambients [10°C (50°F)] That Typically Quiets Down as the Engine Warms Up

Some customers may comment about an engine knock noise that begins to occur within the first several thousand miles of use. This noise is most often noticed during initial start-up in cold ambients [10°C (50°F)] and typically quiets down as the engine warms up. This noise is more noticeable at 800-1100 RPM and/or 1700-2100 RPM. GM Powertrain engineering has determined that this cold engine knock noise is the result of an interaction between the engine piston and the cylinder wall. GM Powertrain engineering has also determined that this condition is not detrimental to the performance, reliability or durability of the engine. Realizing that this noise could be a customer satisfication concern, GM Powertrain has implemented a graphal coated piston for this application to address this noise. These new pistons have been in production since January 10, 2002 and will be available in service by June 1st, 2002. The part numbers for this piston is 88958991 for standard and 88958992 for 0.25 mm (0.0098 in) oversize.

Please follow this diagnosis process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed. If these steps do not resolve the condition, please contact GM TAC for further diagnostic assistance. This diagnostic approach was developed for the vehicle with the VIN you entered and should not be automatically be used for other vehicles with similar symptoms."

nomoregm

Here's a TSB for you:

If it knocks, it sucks--fix it. And please, stop trying to bury it under the rug, GM. We were born at night--not last night.

rayt2

I got this off the Van forum from an owner of a Chevy Venture
" ems1 Jul 15, 2002 (03:22 pm)
Regarding the piston slap: My '98 Venture developed the piston slap at about 25,000 miles. The dealer pulled the engine rebored the cylinders and fitted new pistons. I think they may have been redesigned, but not sure. I know they had problems getting the parts. The van was in the shop for a week. I have over 50,000 miles now and the engine makes a little noise on cold startups but goes away in about 15 seconds. I would prefer no piston slap but I can live with the slight noise I have now. It was a loud tapping before the repair and lasted for about 1 minute. I just had an oil analysis done and it showed no internal problems."

Imagine that! It's so nice to see GM constantly update their TSB on this issue to cover everything as "normal" I'm still rereading my owners manual and brochure to find that paragraph telling me that my brand new truck comes standard with a "knocking engine" which will NOT affect resale value!

Ray T.