Toyota Sienna Future Models

lekn

Thanks to richlavoie's link, I finally found what AWD system Sienna would use. It will be an open differential; and use the traction control to distribute power to non-slipping wheels. So this is the same system used by BMW X5, 3 series xi, Mercedes ML and 4 matic system. If implemented well, as in X5, it can work quite well.

But if it is good enough for Mercedes S class 4matic, it would be good enough for me :-)

canuck13

Anyone know how this AWD system compares to what you'd find in a Subaru or Audi?

plsbcheep04

First let me say to the regular posters a big thanks for sharing so much good information over the last several months. I have read the 700+ posts here and find most of them very helpful and informative throughout the "Toyota Silence Period". I have put off the Honda Odyssey purchase since the fall due to: 1) the news on this board of a new Toyota van announcement and, 2) the arrogance of the Honda dealers on price and their sarcastic/negative remarks of competitors. So thanks to many of you for the helpful info that has made the wait easier and hopefully worth while. The pictures from Sequoiasaurus and others were helpful to our family in deciding to wait until spring for the Sienna. Sequoiasaurus had great original pictures where many are copied to websites as their own. The effort is greatly appreciated. I bought a Tundra last year and have been able to keep the dealer updated through the information I have gleaned from this message board.

Jenr1: You may find it helpful to read back through the last 100-200 messages to find much information that you do not know. Your question is answered several times there as well as at Toyota's website stating that the power doors are NOT available on the CE or LE trims but are standard on XLE and Limited.

The "Limited" will be very nice and more than adequate to meet any families needs. For those of you that need more in "plush-ness" than a Limited has to offer, I hope Lexus does build you a minivan. That is such a tiny market that I don't see it from a pure business decision. I do not want to see Toyota price this van out of the reach of a mainstream market. Let's get real America, war is on the horizon, the economy is struggling and many of us are somewhat spoiled with our "need" for amenities like a "power passenger seat" or a "10 speaker vs. 8 speaker JBL system". My hope is that the 04 is affordable, reliable and comfortable with all the new features that Toyota has already incorporated. It certainly looks better and let us all hope that Toyota does not follow Honda dealer's history of price gouging. $25-$35K is enough to spend for a nice van.

lekn

First, it is official that 2004 Sienna will be at Toronto Auto Show (Feb 14-23). Hope that they will allow public to sit inside the car and they have price/specs available by then.

There are many different AWD system; and it is more related to how well executed the implementation is rather than the choice of system. Audi (A4-A8) uses Torsen differential + traction control. Subaru Legacy/Outback Auto uses a sophisticated electronic clutch type differential. Both works very well. Torsen has the advantage that power distribution occurs *as* wheel slipping occurs, rather than *after* slipping occurs as in Sienna's system.

There was some concern in X5's or ML's system (similar to Sienna's) use in SUV especially in off road use; mainly on its heavy dependence on brakes. In real world testing, their performance off road has surprised many people, i.e. more than adequate except in extreme cases.

It is likely that there will be no manual differential lock in Sienna's open differential design. The differential lock will help out in very slippery conditions to get the car moving. The advantage of Sienna's open differential design is cost and light weight, especially when all the essential components are already there (traction control, VSC, sensors etc). And in most winter driving conditions, Sienna's system should be adequate - as long as it is implemented well.

Right now, AWD + VSC is the best possible combination current technologies offer for winter driving.

unc8185

I disagree with the above post that Toyota-level luxury should be adequate for every buyer. There are such potential buyers out there. However, there are no true luxury minivans. These buyers are forced to settle. Hopefully, one luxury carmaker will one day decide to fill this gap. Such a desire should not be interpreted as a desire to eliminate affordable vans. Rather, there should be choice for all types of buyers.

Why shouldn't the minivan market expand to reflect a variety of offerings? The SUV market includes a range from the very basic to the the very plush. The minivan market should offer the same.

If I could avoid a minivan and use a luxury sedan or SUV, I would. However, our wheelchair lift needs 41" of height, and my wife has trouble climbing into a tall SUV. Thus, we are looking for a reliable, comfortable, and luxurious minivan. We are just unable to find the luxurious part. IMHO it should be an option.

BTW - I sure hope that the glove box is lighted in the new Sienna. The lack of a light in our 2000 Sienna XLE seemed strange to us. Other complaints on the 2000 XLE included the lack of a power passenger seat (to be omitted on the 2004 Sienna?) and a decent radio. The 2000 Sienna's stereo was just awful. We always wished that the Sienna's stereo could have been comparable to our Lexus ES300's system.

tommy38

http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/030127-1.htm
Both the new Sienna and the 04 Nissan Quest will be shown there.

samnoe

What you talk about the price is not true. Chrysler, so far the most luxury minivan, with all options, the T&C Limited w/DVD system and all power options, with AWD, comes also to about $40,000! and even a Ford Windstar Limited with all the options is almost $35,000. So if you add to this options a laser cruise control, rear-view camera, parking assist front & rear, telescoping steering wheel, new powerful engine w/5-speed tranny, you do the math: it should be no less than $43,000!... But Toyota will probably not do that, so if you have a fully equipped model with all your features for about 35 grand, you should be happy.

And for those who are seeking the luxury minivan, altough it's not Toyota quality, the new Mercury Monterey will be out next fall, with a sticker price about $45,000. I guess there will be a lot of luxury features.

By the way, in the pictures of the new Sienna I see very 'plain' sun visors, with no extenders like most other minivans, Chrysler, Honda, etc. Does anybody have any idea about that? Or will they offer secondary visors?

sequoiasaurus

I've taken the time to put together all the info I received from the Detroit show, official press release and info from these discussion groups on the new Sienna.

I've made a simple chart so that it may clarify some of the info on each model.

Sienna Chart

If this doesn't display correctly let me know. I tried in mozilla and it didn't work. However, it did in explorer.

Also, I've added to my webpage some of the links posted here and other items. It call be easily accessed at Bowellville Garage

shabbycat

I come here and get all excited about the 04 Siennas. I really don't like a lot of extras on cars, but what I do like about the 04's are the shoulder belts/headrests in all seating positions (I have 3 kids and will often have *thier* friends in the car as well), and the optional 8th seat. Sigh...... and I really like the idea of the conversation mirror and tons of cupholders.

Seqiouasaurus (sp?), thanks for putting together the chart!

jctobin

Great chart, Sequoiasaurus! The big missing piece left on the new Sienna is pricing, but I'm sure that will be revealed in the next few weeks.

I'll go ahead and display my ignorance; What is an 'open' differential?

Is it likely that the AWD van is normally FWD and only transfers power to the real wheels when slippage occurs?

shabbycat

I was looking at minivan reviews last night and noticed that a poster on another board (I think it might have been Epinons Mazda MPV discussions) said that there would be a BMW Minivan in 2004/2005. It was something like, "BMW minivan, yes, you heard it here first folks"..... so obviously just rumor at this point.

I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum. I just need a safe reliable minivan to haul my family around in. I'm looking for nice minivans that *don't* have all the extras, LOL. Those are tough to find! My most important concerns, are safety, handling, and, of course, price.

nicolekir

Hey thanks for all the great info on the future Sienna. Has anyone heard if there will be a moon roof available in the Sienna LE?????

steveb84

I've been a bit behind, but I'll try to answer a question that was posed to me.

Interior Colors: Fawn(tan) and Stone (gray)

Each interior is officially available with each exterior, but I'm sure some combinations will be more difficult to find than others.

Hopefully I can catch up in the next day or two.

Steve

sequoiasaurus

The moonroof will be available but on what models I can't answer. That it one that is still up in the air right now. I'm willing to bet optional on LE, XLE; and standard on XLE Ltd.

We'll see soon hopefully.

beckyok

The only thing not on the current CE model that I truly need is a luggage rack. It is available in a package but not alone. Will the rack be put on all the new models? Can a rack be added after-market? If I get a positive answer to this, my decision will be easy, a CE under 23 grand!

Thanks, Becky

shabbycat

they sell all sorts of luggage/ski/bike/etc. racks. I noticed someone else posted about Sienna roof racks not being able to hold aftermarket luggage carriers so it might be better to get the Thule or Yakima aftermarket ones anyway. We have Thule on our Subaru and really like them.

todd3940

Are memory seat settings going to be available????

sequoiasaurus

Hasn't been confirmed but unlikey. My Sequoia Limited doesn't have them either.

jenr1

Sequoiasaurus...YOU ARE THE BEST!!! Thanks so much for putting that chart together and for all the pics you posted. I know that it may have seemed to others on this board, from the question that I asked on power sliders that I haven't read much, but I found this site about a week ago and have read every post. These posts have been so helpful, but a bit overwhelming, everything is getting so confusing. This chart is awesome. Thanks to all you have saved me from almost buying the Honda. Now it is all down to price!!! I called a few of my local dealers today and not one knew an exact date or which model they were getting. Actually they didn't even know the things I know. Although PLSBCHEEP04 said that it has been stated many times in the last 200 post and on Toyota's website about there being NO powersliders on the CE and LE model I don't see that on toyota's website...I do see that it says standard on all models except the CE obstacle detection sensors with "pinch protection" on power side doors and back door. What is that, am I still confused or what? Also, does anyone know if the model(s) that do have power sliders are they power on both sides?

lachancs

Sequoiasaurus,

I noticed nobody was able to privide the color of that '04 Sienna listed on that web site. Have you been able to narrow it down? Do you think it would do any good to shoot an email to someone at that site asking them?

I'm with you, I like that color. Now the real task - finding out what the heck it is?

sequoiasaurus

jenr1, Interesting that you bring up "pinch protection" That is the very reason I got rid of my first and only minivan, which was a 99 Olds Silo. My 1 year old son reached back into the power closing door and the door did not reverse on its own as it's supposed to. The door literally created a small dent in his arm. Fortunately kids bones are very flexiable and he was fine within a few minutes. Very scaring. I did make a call to our attorney about I but didn't press the issue and just got rid of the minivan within days. This was not the only problem I had with it just the icing on the cake. Never again will I own a GM product. So from that story did you figure out what pinch protection is?

From the info I compiled I tend to think that the CE may in fact not come with power doors but I could be wrong. Another one of those "we'll have to wait and see"

lachancs, No I haven't figured out that color. I think it's the Blue Mirage but could be the strato mica. Plan on going to the dealer one evening to check out others.

sequoiasaurus

This board is now in the Town Hall Top 10 this week. Which is nice b/c it shows the interest the new Sienna has gotten lately.

But what's more interesting is the Nissan Quest board has not had a post in the last week now. Even over at FreshAlloy.com there has been hardly any mention of the Quest either.

I wonder what's going through the minds of the folks at Nissan right now?

encool

Hi to you nice folks out there. My second baby is coming out late March. If Toyota delivers on its promised schedule (well, hopefully my wife too), the baby can come home in a brand new Sienna. I have been told that it can take a few months for a production line to work out the glitches after a big model year change and therefore the first batch of cars tend to have poor qualities. Can some knowledgeble folks comment on that? (owners of camry'02 and 4runner'03 maybe?).

toyotaken

First of all, as for the questions that have been brought up recently, I hope I can answer some of them. Also keep in mind that there are still some things that haven't been set in stone, so some information may change.

As for the power doors. I would guess that some of the confusion is that the LE trim level doesn't have them as standard equipement, but should have them as optional equipment. They will not be avaialable on the CE trim level as far as I know.

Also in regards to Toyota's first year production models. Toyota is known for putting together a pretty good vehicle right off the bat. However, just like any other manufacturer, they may find ways of improving things incrementally. Typically, the last model year for a particular vehicle design has fewer problems than the first model year as they have worked out most of the issues by then. However, Toyota typically doesn't have as many issues as most manufacturers. They are one of only a couple of manufacturers that I would feel comfortable purchasing a first model year design.

A couple of examples of minor improvements that were made from 1st to second year models would be the addition of some padding under the floor of the Corolla to help improve crash-test scoring. Or the addition of some additional padding in the doors for the Camry for the same reason. There weren't really any reliability issues related to either vehicle at all. And like most good companies, I'm sure that they've learned a few things from each of these occurances, and will have made changes to what they do to prevent things like this arising in future vehicle introductions.

Hope this helps.

Ken

rainbow24

Do you expect any first year new model issues to arise?

jenr1

Sequoiasaurus- Just when I thought that the power sliders would be safer!!! Well maybe the pinch protection feature has improved over time. Power sliders was important to us mainly for that reason and the convenience.
Since you went to the NAIAS and saw the Sienna in person and talked to them, I want to ask you if you think it would be worth me going to the Northeast IAS. It is coming to RI this weekend. Which is not far from me here in Mass. Do you think I will get anything more out of it than we in this board already know?
Another question I had for anyone that lives in cold weather.... Has power sliders ever been a problem getting stuck due to ice and cold? If so what happens? Will it break the mechanism?
One more to throw out there...has anyone heard if keyless entry will be standard/option?

toyotaken

I would guess that there shouldn't be any issues for the first model year of any consequence. The reason that I say this is that most of the systems they are using on the new Sienna are not new to Toyota in general, just to this particular model. For example, the laser Cruise control is used on some of the Lexus models.

As for Keyless, I would guess that it will be standard on the XLE and XLE limited models and optional on all other models with power locks.

Ken

rainbow24

What about issues with the new seating arrangement & design? What about the new engine design, and the new 5 speed automatic transmission that Toyota has put in its vehicles for the first time?

toyotaken

What about the new seating arangement and design? What's wrong with it that would be a problem?

What about the "new" transmission? They've been using 5sp transmissions in the lexus line for several years now with no issues.

blab, blab, blab, this is starting to sound like a one track discussion. As I said, if you don't have anything constructive to add, ....

Ken

andrewtran71

I think Toyota has put so much "quality and quantity" into the 2004 Sienna that some of us just get a little spoiled already and we naturally expect even more from Toyota.
As far as reliability goes, my parents bought the first year model Toyota Previa when it came out and it is still running just fine. They don't drive it very much so it has 120K miles.
My wife drives the first year model Avalon XL and it is still running fine with 115K miles.
My Lexus LS400 has 120K miles and it drives a lot quieter and smoother than some brand new cars.
Of course, nothing is perfect, but for the most part, Toyota's reliability is legendary.
The only reason I might not buy the first year model 2004 Sienna is because I'm afraid it is hotter than I thought and the price will be hot too! Since I don't believe in buying for more than $1,000 above invoice, I might have to wait until everyone else gets their hands on the 2004 Sienna and then Toyota will most likely go easier on bargaining room.

sequoiasaurus

jenr1, to answer your question..I doubt you will find more info at the show but if it's reasonably close there is no reason why you shouldn't go if you know for certain that the 04 Sienna will be on display. Check with the show folks to find out if it will be there.

My current Sequoia was the 3715 built at the Indiana plant. They have expanded the plant to bring in the new Sienna along wside of the Tundra and Sequoia.

The only issue I've had with my Sequoia is brake troubles. I wasn't the only one either. It took nearly 18 months for Toyota to recognize the problem and address it late last summer. I've had 3 complete brake jobs in 27 months. However, my dealer was very accomodating and helpful during the issues.

My Sequoia was my first Toyota and it will not be my last. I'm very pleased with it's quality and design. If we were talking Ford, GM, etc I might say wait and let the bugs be worked out but I'm not even hesitating when it comes to the new Sienna. As a matter of fact I believe that we've come to a conclusion that we are going to get the Sienna. We're very excited.

rainbow24

Thanks for the honesty. First year vehicles have minor issues, no one is perfect. The dealer and manufacturer both stayed there with you on the service and fixing after the problem developed. Glad to hear that you would buy another import.

andrewtran71

Hey, rainbow24, have you changed to being Mr. nice guy or were you just having a little fun rattling a few people?
I guess you were just sick and tired of people like me saying that Toyota is number one?
I'm just having fun too.
But in the end, every single time, we all agree that Toyota and Honda make very good cars.
Hey, I guess Mazda makes good cars too since carguy1234 just pointed out to us that the latest C.R. says that Sienna is #1, MVP is #2, and Odyssey is #3 in reliability.
But seriously, sequoiasaurus has been very helpful to us all and he has done a most outstanding job of giving us information on the new Sienna!
We can count on rainbow24 to do the same when the new Odyssey comes out, huh?

rainbow24

In reality, the new Sienna looks great. I like Hondas. The Sienna will have it's day for a year or two. I believe that Honda and Toyota are the best cars in the world. I own a 2003 Accord EXV6 Coupe. Awesome. Camry; where's the Horsepower and transmission? Everyone has their preferences. If you buy domestic, look for trouble and no resale. Buy Honda, Toyota, Nissan...great reliability, excellent resale, Honda leading resale (www.ALG.com). I am big on safety & performance, that's why I buy Honda.

sequoiasaurus

I wipped up a comparo of the Sequoia vs Sienna. I know, I know there is now comparison but I'm driving a Sequoia now and I've had several emails asking me differences etc. So I made one up I also added the 04 Quest but there is very little info available on it.

Enjoy.
Sequoia vs Sienna

Also. I've updated a little info at the bottom of this from yesterday.
Sienna Chart

redlenses

Does anyone know how the outboard 2nd row seats articulate in the 8 passenger model to enable access to the 3rd row. I have yet to see this in any photos yet.

Cheers

richlavoie

sequoiasaurus, you are amazing. I hope you sell cars for a living... Here is some stuff I found in French in Canada:

1. Remote Keyless entry would be standard on all models (someone said earlier it would only come on the XLE).

2. Dualzone heating is standard.

3. AM/FM Cassette CD with 6 speakers in standard.

4.

richlavoie

sequoiasaurus, you are amazing. I hope you sell cars for a living... Here is some stuff I found in French in Canada:

1. Remote Keyless entry would be standard on all models (someone said earlier it would only come on the XLE). (auto123.com)

2. Dualzone heating is standard. (auto123.com)

3. AM/FM Cassette CD with 6 speakers in standard. (auto123.com)

4. I read somewhere that the steering wheel was tilt and telescopic. Can't remember where thought.

Hope this help in completing your chart. Can't help with the colour...

sequoiasaurus

With all due respect to our members who sell, I wouldn't even come close to selling cars!

Thanks for the info. I'll update tomorrow. I read about the wheel somewhere myself too but don't remember where. Dual zone heat would be for front and rear correct?

sequoiasaurus

This is a close as I can get with a photo.

Toyota Photo

The seat is folded (as in picture) then tumbled forward. This is an LE, but the CE is probably the very similar if not the same.

Jack
SequoiaSaurus
Bowellville Garage

sequoiasaurus

sorry I deleted 767.

Jack
SequoiaSaurus
Bowellville Garage

lekn

In #736 jctobin wrote:
> What is an 'open' differential?

Check this out:
http://www.howstuffworks.com/differential2.htm

All our cars have differentials in the driving wheels. AWD needs 3, front, rear and center. But we need something more. With all open differentials, when one wheel starts slipping, all the torque will go to that slipping wheel and the car would not move. We need something to redistribute power to non-slipping wheel. That's where the 4 wheel traction control comes into play. By applying brakes to the slipping wheel, torque can be redistributed to the non-slipping ones. (The link above also describes other AWD system's way of locking/redistribute power in the center differential)

> Is it likely that the AWD van is normally FWD and only transfers power to the real wheels when slippage occurs?

Actually, with Sienna's open differential design, all four wheels are driven at all times - i.e. a true "full-time AWD". However, the differential gearing can be set to be front biased or rear biased in normal driving. Since Sienna is designed to be a FWD vehicle, I would expect it to be front biased to retain some FWD characteristics in handling.

Interestingly, some other AWD such as Acura MDX's VTM-4 system, Volvo XC90's Haldex system or Chrysler mini-van's viscous coupling are closer to a "part-time AWD" - as they only drive the front wheels in normal condition, while distributing power to the rear wheel as required. So a more accurate description for them would be "automatically engaging part-time AWD".

jctobin

The great information provided by folks like yourself, Sequioiasaurus, Toytotaken, etc. has made this site a great resource for researching our next car purchase. Based on your description of this system, I'm sure it will work very well.

Someone made the comment that this AWD system can only respond after slippage occurs, but that doesn't seem valid to me, if all 4 wheels are driving all the time, then slippage is far less likely to occur in the first place. Other systems may have some theoretical advantage on paper but this sounds like it will work fine in the real world. Now I'm just hoping we can get an AWD LE for < $30K this spring, and this will replace our trusty 8-year old Legacy.

I found Sequioiasaurus' chart comparing the Sequioa w/ the new Sienna very interesting. Now that the Sienna has taken away the SUV AWD trump card, the chart makes a compelling case for the Sienna as the more practical choice for those looking for a large family vehicle. Unless you need the impressive towing capacity and high ground clearance of the Sequoia, the Sienna delivers greater passenger and cargo space in a more economical and fuel efficient package. Of course, it doesn't have that cool, tough truck image, but the Sienna seems a nicely enough styled vehicle that it should help counter the 'soccer mom' stigma that pushes many to SUVs.

I've long felt that part of the reason that minivans aren't perceived as cool is their boring, generic styling. The new Sienna and the new Quest show that the auto manufacturers are waking up to this. (Unfortunately for Nissan, their admirably daring styling just doesn't work, I predict this model will be a big disappointment in the market.)

bargamon

Hey Jack,

Yeah you have been busy here! Nice work.

As you know, my first Sienna in its first year had squeeks they never could fix. Im looking at the pictures and with all wheel drive and all this room makes for a compelling arguement. Good family friend also owns a Toyota dealership which could prove interesting. Be a hell of lot cheaper than replacing my ML!

Maybe will all the bells and whistles the wife may decide its a worthy trade off. I may have to buy her a boxter one day to make up for being a mini-van mom. But She'll let me drive it sometimes........

sequoiasaurus

Sienna has taken away the SUV AWD trump card, the chart makes a compelling case for the Sienna as the more practical choice for those looking for a large family vehicle. Unless you need the impressive towing capacity and high ground clearance of the Sequoia, the Sienna delivers greater passenger and cargo space in a more economical and fuel efficient package. Of course, it doesn't have that cool, tough truck image, but the Sienna seems a nicely enough styled vehicle that it should help counter the 'soccer mom' stigma that pushes many to SUVs.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Jack
SequoiaSaurus
Bowellville Garage

sequoiasaurus

Good to see you over here bargamon! Couldn't resist the link last night.

After personally seeing and sitting in the Pacifica and then reading a little more about it from the show brochure I just had to scratch it off my list. I was hoping for a little more bang for the buck but that didn't seem to pan out, especially when DC released pricing. Wow! Of course we don't know what the Sienna is going to be either but hopefully it will be comparable to the Pacifica but with much more bells and whistles.

What's interesting is my wife who absolutely hates minivans is somehow growing to like what she see's in the new Sienna. She still likes her ML too but wants a four seat convertible the next go round. So if we get the Sienna it looks like she'll be getting a "sports car" next! Sounds farmiliar huh?

Hang around at least till pricing comes out and maybe this will turn out to be a better deal.

Jack
SequoiaSaurus
Bowellville Garage

Karen_S

...I don't see anything in the title that suggests this discussion is for "comparing" future makes/models. A few posts have been removed as off topic.

Please concentrate on the Toyota Sienna only.

Thanks for your cooperation.

deepan

Are they located under the front seats. This could explain the lack of a drawer or power passenger seat. At present with this arrangement heat to the 3rd row is inadequate sometimes.

dplachta

peek at the Princeton facility '04 Siennas already made and find out what they are coming with, what their towing capacity is, what the prices are for the equipment, etc, etc, etc. What would it hurt if one of their fine employees relays this vital info to us???

wholigan

This board has been great! Big thanks to Toyotaken and Sequoiasaurus (sp) for getting all this information together! Most of our questions can be answered on John's Seinna chart page, therefore, if you have a feature/option question, take a look there first.

Now I digress to the questions at hand... First things first. I am not a fan of cars. In today's run-and-go society, they are a necessary evil (especially for those of us with kids). I just don't like dishing out $25000 (and that seems to be low for some vehicles) for something that will never appreciate and only (seems) to eat money! So... The Sienna CE is looking like a good option. Given that, I am hoping that "Toyota" experienced folk may be able to answer the following:
#1 - Can the HVAC filter be ADDED (like a dealer option) to the vehicle? While it is standard on the LE, I still do not have a really compelling reason to up-scale to the LE (unless my wife's allergies REALLY kick in ;-)
#2 - Will there be a different "quality" of interior material used on the LE versus the CE? Like a different "thickness" of seat material? Is there any sample difference - like on different models of the Corolla or Camry?
#3 - Does adding the optional TRACion control add rear disc brakes? I have not read anything about the braking system, other than the available traction control.

Outside of that, since keyless and CD player are standard on the CE, that is the way I would go (if I go the Toyota route)- unless given COMPELLING reasons otherwise...

Thanks Again folks!!!