Subaru Crew Problems & Solutions

hondafriek

I cannot give you the actual PSI but it is variable according to the type of master cylinder and whether you have 1,2 or 4 piston calipers but given that the pressure is hydraulic I would imagine it is well in excess of 50PSI.

  Cheers Pat.

hondafriek

http://www.scoobymods.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1- - 122
 For brake info.

 Cheers Pat.

taddison

I have the Motive Power Bleeder and it works great. I've flushed 4 cars with it so far, including a friend's Outback.

I bought it because the last time I flushed a system by pumping the pedal it ruined the seals in the master cylinder, just like the Motive Products web site says can happen.

I run it at 10-12lb pressure, which seems to give a moderate flow. I could have gone higher, but to do so would mean tightening the adapter down harder to prevent the rubber seal from leaking, and it felt like this would be putting too much stress on the reservoir (I'm assuming you have the universal adapter with a chain that goes under the reservoir).

I went through a large bottle of fluid (32oz?) per car.

Make sure you siphon out all the old fluid from the reservoir and add fresh fluid to it before starting, otherwise it will take a long time and a lot of extra fluid to flush all the old stuff through the lines.

Tim.

kevin111

If your car oscillates several times and not just a couple, your strut is bad. Is it $600 for all 4? That sounds reasonable. I have gone to many different dealers to ask about this on my previous cars - an Acura and a Toyota, about $300 for the front and $300 for the rear.

$600 for just the rear seems very exorbident. This is my first Subaru, but I would be shocked if Subys are that much tougher to install rear shocks than any other car.

In terms of play - I thought this was used to judge the rack-and-pinion. It could be the bearings.

If you do not trust the mechanic, shop for another. When I had a rack-and-pinion problem, I went to over 5 different mechanics to diagnose the problem, till I found one that I liked. It ended up working out well. Basically, I tried to get a little familiar with the car, so if something seems odd with what the mechanic is diagnosing and the cost, I will try other ones.

bat1161

2000 OB 5 spd wagon
41000 miles
I think it was the left one(have to double check the invoice).
All covered under warranty (including the loaner).

Mark

amsbear

Thanks for all the information and tips regarding this. I do have the one with the universal adapter and yeah it looks like it would be a little tricky tightening it down evenly and not overtight as well. Too bad that they don't provide a real screw down cap that would mate better to the MC.

When (if) it gets above 40F I'll be giving it a try. Maybe I'll get some SS brake lines to further help eliminate the soft pedal feel.

Thanks,

Alan

celica115

I took my WRX to the dealer on Monday because I suspected there was a leak from oil pan. I left my car there for one day, and the next day they called me to pick up my car. They said it is not a leak, it is something called "undercoating". It will look like engin oil when the oil pan gets hot. I was happy of course because there is no leak. Unfortunely, they must charge me a check-up fee for $86.60 because the check-up is not under warranty. I personally think that is not resonable since I went to a Subaru Dealer. If I knew there is a such charge, I would pay $25.00 for any shop on the street for lifting up my car and check. Do other Subaru dealers charge for that kind of service in different states. It is so bad in NYC. Even through I called SOA, they said the check-up is not covered under warrenty. What do you guys think about this?

Luk

ateixeira

Ken: try Monroe Sensatronic struts. No need to spend so much cash.

Jack it up with the wheel off the ground, see if there is any play. Turn it slightly and see if it whines or clunks or otherwise makes any other funny sounds. If you have a rear LSD make sure both rear wheels are off the ground, maybe use the rear diffy as the jacking point.

Luk: that's actually not unreasonable, figure it takes them an hour of labor to drive the car on the ramp, lift it, check it out, document the issue, lower it, drive out. I don't know if shops even do anything under an hour of labor.

threesin: cluth chatter isn't uncommon on a cold vehicle before it warms up, but that doesn't seem to affect durability. Besides that, I'd just document your complaint with the dealer. Even if they don't think it's a problem they can enter a "customer says" complaint so if something comes up later you're covered.

-juice

celica115

I fully understand the dealer should have paid by someone because they did an hour job. Should SOA cover it? Let's say, someone (not a mechanic person) suspects something wrong with the car, he or she brings the new car back to the dealer to check. Dose he or she expect a check-up charge if the car is good? No way, if something I break and is not covered under warranty, that's resonable. I am saying that SOA should cover the diagnosic fee. If I am the one who visit the dealer every 3 months, that's not resonable. I just want to say that diagnosic fee should be covered atleast or by bumper to bumper warranty.

Luk

p0926

Well that changes things (you didn't say that you were still covered by the 3/36k bumper to bumper warranty). I'd be upset too if they charged me a diagnostic fee.

-Frank P.

ateixeira

It doesn't hurt to ask. Call 800-SUBARU3 and politely lobby for a reimbursement.

I can see how they're not going to cover every case, because someone with OCD will drive them to bankruptcy.

But within reason, i.e. one diagnostic within the 3/36 warranty, seems like they could cover.

-juice

idahodoug

for the dealer perspective. If anyone at anytime could bring their warranted vehicle in for free checkups, the system wouldn't work so well, would it? Not to mention we'd be paying a wee bit more for cars to make up for this "socialized inspection service".

My feeling on it in this case is this. A guy comes in and says "I've got oil leaking out of my pan, I can see it". This guy hasn't even bothered to lay on his side, reach under and get some on a paper towel to confirm or deny his own supposition, mind you. So I'm the dealer and I can A) tell him no, you don't have a leak -see you later, or tell him I'll check for him but he'll have to pay for it if there's no problem.

If he was NOT told there would be a charge if no warrantable condition was found, then there's an issue here, but I think the position that a warranty is carte blanche to come in for every imagined problem is not realistic.

IdahoDoug

sebberry

On my new Outback H6, I have noticed a couple of things about the Titanium Perl paint on the lower cladding/bumpers.

It seems to scratch easily. I have noticed a couple of small scrapes down to the black base layer where a door has bumped it. Also, a friend of mine chipped the back bumper, again down to the black while putting something fairly light in the back of the car.

Second, there is what appears to be very small bubbles in the clearcoat by the front right headlight.

I am suspecting that the clearcoat was applied too soon after the colour coat.

Anybody else have this problem?

thanks.

merrycynic

Celica 115,
 I think you should be reimbursed. I think it presumptuous of the dealer to expect a customer to be able to differentiate "undercoating" from oil leakage. Furthermore, if the car did indeed have an oil leak, was under warranty and you didn't report it in timely fashion, and the car suffered further damage due to this neglect, it could legally be held against you, if you tried to make a warranty claim. It is especially insulting that they had to keep your car over night for something that should have been immediately obvious to them. If it wasn't possible to immediately discern this, how could the customer be expected to ascertain the situation? Why is the undercoat leaking? If the under coat leaks, is routine undercoating maintenance required? If you ask me, it all sounds very suspect. After you get your money back, you might want to find a friendlier outfit to service your vehicle.

ateixeira

I'd just get touch-up paint for those scratches. The bubbling is a different story. Show that to your dealer and see what they say.

But still, a repaint probably won't be any better. They don't usually have access to the clean rooms and paint-curing technology that factories do.

Useless trivia: the painting booth at SIA is shared with Isuzu.

-juice

20llbean

I agree that the bumper paint is very easy to scratch. I once closed my garage door with the bumper hanging out enough to have the metal inside door handle take a couple of gashes out of the bumper to about 1/8" an inch in depth and 4 inches in length. I took it to the dealer and for 70 bucks they fixed it. Fix was great, you cannot tell that it happended at all. For minor scratches, I use the titanium pearl touch paint. Got it from the dealer for 5 bucks. Not sure how else one can protect the bumpers as they are a bumper!

But the sube bumpers are softer then any other car I have own.

lucien2

I'm a part of the nasioc thread already, so I will leave it be.

celica115

I will try to make a warranty claim from SOA. I'll post the progress later. I don't blame the dealer for the charge since they spent time to do the diagnostic. I am upset because the diagnostic fee is not covered by SOA. Is that mean if the owner is not 100% sure his car has problem, do not bring the car back to the dealer, otherwise there is a diag charge? It dosen't make sense.

Luk

idahodoug

I disagree. This is no different from the following:

Calling in a Sears repair for a new refrigerator that periodically makes a "tumbling" sound that turns out to be the ice maker dumping ice into the tray. You should pay.

Calling in a furnace repair man because your house is cold, and having him tell you it's because the digital thermostat was set to "hold" instead of "auto". You should pay.

Dropping your new car off for diagnostics because the brakes make a "funny sound" that turns out to be normal ABS operation because that day there was a lot of ice. You should pay.

C'mon. Be reasonable here and accept responsibility for your own actions and your own knowledge. Sure, cars are complicated, but lift a finger on your own behalf and learn enough about them to be well informed. Or. Or what? Or pay someone else to inform you. You can't have it both ways. That's the way the world works and always will.

If you didn't know that for the last 30 years cars have been undercoated from the factory and it is dark in color and glossy, and you don't have someone in your life you can ask, and you don't take a minute to reach down in there and get a bit on a paper towel to make a decision yourself - pay someone else to decide. I think it's unreasonable to permit yourself to be the lowest common denominator in terms of vehicle knowledge, and not expect to incur some costs for that chosen level of ignorance.

IdahoDoug

merrycynic

IdahoDoug, I respectfully disagree. Your analogies are a bit off the mark. If the refrigerator or furnace was emitting fluid, then you would have a valid analogy. I suspect in those circumstances, you might have a different opinion. The personal computer expectations of consumer knowledge is unreasonable to me. Anyone can purchase these autos. I don't expect my grandmother to make chemical analysis. If this is in fact such a simple procedure, why wouldn't the dealer "take a minute to reach down in there and get a bit on a paper towel to make a decision". The dealer could then cheerfully send the customer on his/her way with confidence, instead of inconviencing the customer with an over night diagonstic procedure and the accompanying expense. Now if the customer insisted on the procedure despite the dealers explanation, then I would agree with you. I think leaking undercoating is suspect on its own merits. If this is in fact a typical by-product, some mention should be made in the manual. I don't recall reading this in the manual. I don't plan on re reading it for the sake of this forum. If it is in fact there, then you are right and I am wrong, and I humbly retract my position on this matter. Lets face it, even if it is in the manual, the dealer who is so opportunistic to take advantage of a customers ignorance is not a "friendly" dealer. I'm sure if anyone brought their vehicle in for this at my local establishment, there would be no charge. That good will keeps me and many others coming back for required service.

celica115

The first two scenarios can not be used on this case because someone needs to come to your house to do the service (On-site service). No matter what reason for the service, you must pay unless your warranty includes the on-site labor. I am a computer technician. If someone comes to my retail store with a warranty computer, I'd do a 3 minutes check first without question. If someone physically damage the computer, then he has to pay for the broken part even it is under warranty.

Luk

idahodoug

OK, so my analogies are off the mark because two of them don't involve automobiles and they involve someone coming TO your house instead of you going TO the service place? Of course, analogies are meant as similar scenarios, not exact reproductions so I think you're choosing to focus on the differences as a way of avoiding my point. Those were legit analogies IMHO. However, I can do better. Here are some very similar situations I think someone should pay for:

- My ABS example above (owner should pay).

- A customer comes in and cannot get his car stereo to work. The dealership finds the power has been disconnected which activated the anti theft feature. The owner then admits he was installing some fog lights and had disconnected the battery. The owner should pay.

- A customer comes in and says he has fluid leaking out of the engine bay of his new car and asks that the car be checked out. The dealership checks all fluid levels, puts it up on the rack and inspects for leakage and finds nothing. Then the car is brought around for the owner and is idling while the owner and service manager discuss next steps. Suddenly the owner points at the ground and says "There, that's what I was talking about." He is pointing at normal condensation from the air conditioner operating. The owner should pay.

So, who do you think should pay in these three examples and why? Basically, my entire point comes down to this. People should pay for their own ignorance, and I don't mean ignorance in a negative way. The dealer is not taking advantage of someone in this circumstance, because they're a business and should be paid for their time. In this case, the substance on the oil pan was either engine oil or it was not. You can take 15 seconds to determine this yourself, or pay someone else to do it for you.

Your comment that chemical analysis is needed was not appropriate. If you're a car owner and you don't know what engine oil smells like, looks like and feels like, then I say you are approaching the ignorance end of the spectrum of vehicle owners. Anyone who has not pulled their dipstick, wiped it clean and reinserted it knows what engine oil is like. If you, or I suspect an engine oil leak and we see what looks like the leak I would think that we should reach in and get some on a finger to smell and decide if we have a problem. Very simple.

As far as I know from his post, Celica was not even talking about any fluid actually hitting the ground - he apparently just saw brown stuff on the oilpan. Undercoating will not drip off a car like engine oil, so I'm making an assumption here. It is a high temp coating designed to handle the very high heat levels of automotive components without so much as moving. Celica can enlighten us on that.

So, no - I don't think it's fair to expect the dealership to check out every little imagined problem an owner can come up with and for them to pay for it.

An interesting analogy-that's-not-an-analogy ocurred in my life on Thursday and I'm looking at a nice wicker basket of cheese, crackers and chocolate that was the upshot. A new neighbor moved in a week ago. Nice couple our age with two kids our kids age. We walk a lot and stopped to say hello and exchange numbers last week. On Thursday, I got a call from his wife that something was leaking on the garage floor and could I come take a look? She thought it was transmission fluid. So far is this an analogy? I realize it's not a Subaru...

Rather than take it to the dealership and pay them to tell her what it was, she called a new friend - me. I walked over and told her it was only radiator fluid and that it was coming out of the water pump. She didn't know any mechanics, so I called mine, got her in the next day and my wife watched their kids while she and I dropped the car off. She paid for a new water pump, and did not pay a dealer to check all fluids and put it up on the rack.

My point here is that she was faced with a similar question as Celica was "what is that stuff?" and chose a different route than Celica did. She took the initiative, knew she needed to know what the fluid was and found a way to discover the answer. She is what I would call a discerning student of life. Nothing against Celica, but do you see the difference here? One answered the question "what is that?" by bringing it to the dealer and the other found another way to answer the question.

That's why I'm about to eat a couple of Bailey's filled chocolates and watch the snow fall outside the window. Get it?

IdahoDoug

shakey2

Back in august '02 dfgriggs reported a problem called "stumbling", saying that "its like the engine loses power for a split second or so". If dfgriggs is still reading this, did you find the cause? I have a "shaking" problem that may be similar to yours, and would like to know what causes it. A full description of my problem is in message # 879. Suggestions from anyone will be welcome.
By the way, does anyone know of a good Subaru power train diagnostic expert in central Jersey? I'm willing to pay for repairs even tho' its under warranty because Subaru says they can't fix it. If I can get it fixed, I'll sue Subaru under the Consumer Fraud Act (triple damages).

once_for_all

just my $.02, is it not also true that there are true warranty issues that never get brought in? IMO, these kinds of problems balance out.

I sell/install drip irrigation systems, and it is truly amazing how some customers are nit picky to an unreasonable degree and don't want to pay for it, while others truly have a problem but never seek a warranty solution. Case in point, on an early wear out problem with a certain model sprinkler, we have some customers that have had their sprinklers replaced twice at manufacturers' cost, while others assume it is normal failure and have been purchasing replacement sprinklers ever since. Where is the fairness in all this? I think you have to do what it takes to generate enough consumer happiness for repeat business, and that is all that a manufacturer/dealer should do. After all, profit is the motive for being in business.

nippononly

examples of normal ABS operation and normal A/C condensation drippage are both items covered in the owner's manual, so ignorance on the part of the owner in those cases should be chargeable - it is your responsibility to read that darn manual.

Example two is meddling with the car's electrical system that implies knowledge of the car's systems, so if that person is too ignorant to know what is going on with the radio afterwards, it is their fault.

In similar fashion, someone who knows nothing about cars should not be poking around the undercarriage, as they will not know what anything is down there, and they will not know if something they see is wrong. It is not their responsibility to know about that stuff, and it is not their job to be down there looking. So if their ignorance at that point causes them to bring the car in for inspection, they should pay, I think.

NOW, if there is smoke rising, or leakage onto the ground (which would not be mentioned in the owner's manual), or a burning smell, then I think the owner is perfectly within his/her rights to expect an inspection at no cost.

bkaiser1

I have to agree that the titanium paint on the lower part of the Outbacks is fragile -- it chips off if you look at it wrong! After nearly 50K miles with my 01 Outback, I've collected a few scars on the lower body.

About your paint bubbling, I had a similar problem with the paint on my car caused by the clearcoat being applied too soon after the base coat. It caused "crazing" which looks like millions of 1/8 inch cracks in the paint. It's apparently not uncommon in cars from the Indiana plant. My entire car was repainted in December 2002 under warranty as a result, and it looks better than new.

The downside to having the entire car repainted, aside from being carless for 4 weeks, was that the body shop did a horrible job reassembling the interior of the car. The windows leak (even a back "non-rolling" window), the door panels rattle, 2 windows needed to be retinted because of overspray, my washer nozzles spray the road instead of the glass, and the list goes on and on...so much for the "subaru" body shop.

Brian

ateixeira

I don't think it's the paint itself - it might be the surface below. I'm sure it's harder for paint to stick to that plastic vs. say, sheet metal.

Any how, every car gets dings, you should see my neighbor's Volvo. Forget Battle Scars, that thing looks like something out of Mad Max!

-juice

ducktapeguy

I just installed the SS brake lines over the weekend, it could have been a really quick job if it weren't for those nuts. You're supposed to use a flare nut wrench to prevent stripping the nuts, but even with one of those I still ended up messing up one nut. If you try to get them off and start rounding off the corner, just use a small pipe wrench to break it loose. A lot easier, and with less damage to the nuts. First one took me an hour of cursing and pounding and trying everything, the next three only took about 10 mintues.

kens

So, how do the new SS lines feel?

Ken

ducktapeguy

To tell you the truth, I don't really know. If there is a difference, it's not a huge difference. It's not something you would immediately notice if you weren't aware of it. I also upgraded to Axxis pads too and did a complete flush of the brake fluid (Valvoline Synpower), so it could be a result of all three of these things. To me, the brake feels a little stiffer, not as mushy. But then the feeling could be all in my head, just me trying to justify my expense.

Kens, you try those steering rack bushings yet?

dave226

I'm running out of fixes for my rear brakes. I have a 2000 Legacy with rear drums. At 9000km they were out of round. Dealer machined them, made sure springs were correct and that the shoes were not too tight against the drums. At around 20,000km they're out of round again.(hard braking at highway speeds make a horrific whomp whomp noise from the rear) The car is driven mostly around the city with little highway, so there should not be great heat build up. The front rotors have been fine. I'm running out of ideas as to why the drums are going out of round and what I should be doing differently. Any ideas?

paisan

Must be the brighton model, cause I haven't seen a legacy in years with rear drums.

-mike

lucien2

dunno. But I would have the tire balance checked. My old 4Runner once had a similar problem- horrific shuddering like an earthquake during heavy braking. The culprit? one rim had thrown its weights during an off roading trip.

rangner

I've noticed a jerk when I step on the gas from coasting. I just changed the differential gear oil on my 2000 OB. On the front diff. drain plug there was about 1/4 inch of metal bits. The rear diff. was ok, but also had a few metal bits on it as well.

I bought the car from a private party a couple of months ago, and I learned through reading his maintenance records that he never changed the diff oil on it. It had 43000 miles on it when I bought it. Now it has ~47000. The diagnosis in the repair manual I bought is a problem with the driveline. What's the problem with it? Is it better to try to sell/trade it? Or will it be generally ok as long as I take care of it?

nygreg

If they cut too much metal prior it is possible there is not enough metal to take the heat and thus they will continue to warp. Drums typically do not warp as easily as rotors. However, replacing them is probably the answer.

Greg

georgeinmd

I wonder if we're talking about the same thing? See my post georgeinmd Feb 20, 2003 1:12pm .

A little googling netted (!) the following: http://www.geocities.com/hobiegary/hesfix.htm and http://www.toad.net/~rrubel/bulletin.html#hesitation . Any experience out there with either of these solutions??? Thanx,

George

bkaiser1

All of my cars with manual transmissions have exhibited the same trait you describe: coasting, back on the gas, and the car jerks a bit. It's worse in lower gears than higher gears, but it's not something that I'd consider as abnormal with a MT car. If yours is an automatic, then maybe I'd be concerned.

As to the metal shavings -- that doesn't sound so good...

Brian

ateixeira

I agree with Brian, the metal shavings might mean the previous owner drove around on tires with uneven circumferences, or did some other form of neglect. The limited-slip function (if you have the AWP) of the diffy might be cooked.

-juice

ateixeira

Also have them check the wheel bearings, and balance the wheels, just to eliminate any other causes. Hopefully the new set will last forever.

-juice

axp696

The metal shavings are normal. That's the reason the lower bolt is magnetic, so it catches them and they don't end up back inside the differential. The differential oil really doesn't need to be changed as often as every 30,000 miles, so chances are good that unless there was an excessive amount of shavings, there's not a problem there.

ateixeira

1/4" of it sounds a bit excessive to me. I pretty much expect the metal shavings to be too small for the naked eye to even see.

-juice

vetmats

I installed a K&N air filter on my 2000 Subaru Outback last night. This morning, the car stalled once on the way to work. As I got closer to my office, the engine started to surge whenever it was idling. The RPM's would go from 1000 to 1500 and back down again repeatedly. And the engine would severely hesitate when I pressed on the gas peddle. A guy at work had a code reader, and we got a code P1507. As far as we could tell, this code means an "IDLE Air Control" problem.
Has any one else had this problem?
Any suggestions?

I am going to a Subaru Dealer tomorrow morning to get a new Subaru air filter to replace the K&N.

vetmats

idahodoug

The shavings are normal and that's why the plug is magnetic as mentioned above. A quarter inch of deposits (probably a combination of a grey sludge, some fine shavings and a few pieces the size of a long fingernail clipping, right?) is normal. Rest assured that magnet was doing it's job and those things were tightly clinging the entire time - not circulating around. Quality manufacturers use magnetic plugs because the complex machining of a differential often leaves a few little shavings here and there despite a careful manufacturing process.

50k miles would not pose a problem for the original diff oil, so no worries there.

I suspect this. You're astute enough to know how to change your own diff oil and therefore in touch pretty well with the car. Which means you can fall victim to the hypervigilant syndrome after you've seen something that concerned you (needlessly, it seems).

The lurch you feel is normal and it did it before you changed the oil. My automatic does it, too. The actual lurch is a combination of the fuel injection going from 'coast' (no fuel delivered), to gas applied and this is called "tip-in" and many cars lurch here. I feel my Subaru has worse tip in lurch than any vehicle I've owned and have heard this from other owners as well.

If you had a wear issue with your diffs, the first symptom is actually noise. A humming or whining sound - not slack. So this is not consistent with a drivetrain issue - nearly all of which would first manifest as noise.

Rest easy - your Sube's fine.

IdahoDoug

rangner

Thanks for all the helpful input. I think I'll talk to my dealer a little to see what they think, follow the maintenance schedule, and try not to worry so much. Thanks again!

nygreg

nygreg

I installed a K&N air filter on my 01 OB H4 4EAT about a month ago. I have had no issues. I believe my gas mileage increased approximately 0.5 to 1.0 mpg. Engine is running very smooth. Maybe you could reset your ECU.

Greg

ateixeira

I bet a vacuum tube is loose. That'll trigger a CEL and force the engine to stall. It happened to Lucien when he did some intake work and forgot to reconnect one of those tubes.

Trace back your steps, check for loose or disconnecting hoses.

I have a photo that might help. Look at this album and check out photo number 8:

http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4291908425

You'll see the tube I'm talking about. That's for a Phase I 2.5l from 1998, yours might be a little different.

-juice

vetmats

I checked all of the hoses/connections I could get to and double-checked that the air filter was seated correctly. However, I still had the same problems.

So, this morning I went to a Subaru dealer and got a Subaru-brand air filter to replace the K&N filter. I haven't had any problems after installing the Subaru-brand filter. The car idling behavior is back to what it was before the K&N.

The dealer suggested that my problems with the K&N air filter were due to the fact that I was due for a spark plug replacement. However, I can't buy that explanation because the problem disappeared with the new Subaru air filter.

Is it possible that I got a defective K&N filter?

ateixeira

Maybe too oil-soaked? It's possible.

-juice

zman3

I read something about this on a message board. I don't recall which unfortunately. I think it was a Ford truck board. People were having issues with the oil from the K&N effecting some sensor, maybe MAF sensor (Mass Air Flow)? I do recall that it was effecting idling/driveability issues.