Subaru Crew Problems & Solutions

ballistic

Understand that none of this is meant to disagree with your justified anger, but I think the target of your fury should be broader than just the dealer and his prep people.

Unless I'm mistaken, fully-assembled Subarus containing specified levels of all fluids are driven, not pushed, from the end of the assembly line to short-term storage. From there they might be transported to the port of departure, but then they're driven onto the ship. Upon arrival here, they're driven off the ship at the port of entry, configured with port-installed accessories, and then driven onto trucks for transport to dealers.

The initial reponsibility for filling the transmission (to enable driving it before it ever arrived at your dealer) rested with Subaru/Fuji Heavy Industries in Japan. The dealer prep process certainly should have checked and caught a low-fluid situation, but they didn't create it. Some damage may already have occurred before they even got it. They should get a share of the blame, but certainly not all of it.

paisan

How low was it? Did the tech properly check it? My guess is that it wasn't low at all. As I posted earlier a new TCU would probably have cleared up the problem in the first place....

-mike

paisan

Ahhh Jeanette you have played right into Ballistic an I's hand...

For instance the interior cargo space provided by a mini-van is far GREATER than SUVs. Safari has the same interior room as a full-size SUBURBAN!

Just cause your SUV has a higher floor, doesn't mean it has more room or clearance. As for getting through inclement weather, there are several AWD minivans out there.

So tell me a situation your SUV provides better than an AWD mini-van could? This all stems from your original statement where you say you don't want it to look like a mini-van...

-mike

miamixt

What EXACTLY is Dealer Prep anyway?. I know what Dealer Service Fee's are when you buy a new Car, just an extra built in Profit Margin! My XT came with low Engine Coolant, a Dashboard Buzz that made me hate my new purchase, Windshield wipers that thunked in the massive Rains (used Rain-X, was told by the Potamkin Subaru Service Manager Jim Bosilay that I voided my Warranty) I had a leaking Tire, this Service genius told me it's normal to loose 5 PSI a Week, I felt like punching him out! And STU, my Transmission has done some strange shifting too, actually just the Engine reeving with no movement. I predict a recall down the line? I have found Subaru Customer Service Representatives to be excellent, however I had to purchase the "Gold Added Security" Service Contract to give me some added peace of mind. It is quite disappointing to know that Subaru will allow a Dealership to operate without Subaru Certified Technicians! By the way, I love my XT now, I will never step foot into my Selling Dealer, Potamkin Subaru of Miami, part of the Planet Automotive Group.

03xngreen

I’m sure there are dealers with fine service centers, and those on this board who frequent them, will probably jump to defend. But, I wonder just how often dealer services are to blame for Subaru issues. I’m one of those that have had horrible service at a dealer and will never go back to it.

In over the year or so reading posts on this forum, I seem to recall a number of times that dealers overfilled, under filled, mis-diagnosed, offered bad advice, and even broke.

I wonder if Subaru should pay more attention to the competency of their dealer’s service departments. Some of them are giving the manufacturer an undeserved bad rap.

ballistic

So tell me a situation your SUV provides better than an AWD mini-van could?

About the only functional advantage would be a bona fide requirement to tow really heavy loads - exceeding two tons, say. And even then, if the need is infrequent, a suitable tow vehicle can be rented for the occasion, rather than driving a sub-20-MPG behemoth all year long with one or two people aboard most of the time.

Bottom line, a high percentage of large SUV purchases are motivated by their alleged style/coolness factor and nothing more. And given that they're a menace to everyone else and playing into the hands of foreign oil producers, that is incredibly selfish and superficial.

paisan

Also if you did some true off-roading, I could see it. I use my trooper to tow 5000bs about 10K miles a year and I hit the trails about every 2 months for offroading/rock climbing.

-mike

ballistic

OK, offroading, but I'd think the best choice for that would be something with reasonably tidy dimensions - Wrangler, Land Rover, Bronco, Grand Cherokee, even your Trooper, which is by no means huge - that sort of thing. How many of the massive Cadillac Escalades, Chev Suburbans, Ford Expeditions/Excursions do you suppose actually ever do any hardcore offroading? Or even Hummer H2s? My guess - close to zero. Most are bought for shallow one-upmanship, pure and simple.

opus9

We have a 2000 Outback Sport that had to have rear-wheel bearing surgery at about 50K. $Ouch$! Now, at 70K, the other side is exhibiting same anti-social whine. Before I fork over several hundred more $, has anyone dealt with this same issue? Of course, my dealer played the "this never happens card" the first go-around. Any good crying to Subaru National? Loved the car for all these years, but never had this problem with any Mazda, Toyota or Honda we've owned. Thanks for putting up with a first-timer, Subaru Crew!

paisan

Very true, I have seen 1 H2 on the trail (which coincidentally we needed to pull out of a rut) no burbans or Excalades. You are right most of them are bought for vanity.

-mike

ateixeira

Stuart: keep in regular touch with 800-SUBARU3, keep updating the case info. The dealer seems a little clumsy, so work with SoA. That's what I would do.

3 strikes, they're out. That's the lemon law. If they try to fix it twice, and it still fails a 3rd time (within the first year), it's a lemon. If you must, have a lawyer call them, but hopefully you'll be able to work it out with SoA directly. It'll take less time and aggravation by far.

opus9: now I'm raising all kinds of red flags. First of all, at 50k miles, that might have been a warranty item. I'm not sure, but I would have called 800-SUBARU3 and worked with them, people here seemed to have obtained favorable results that way.

And yes, rear bearings were an issues with those, up to the 2001 model year. The 2002 design is more fault-tolerant.

Another red flag - usually when those are replaced, they used Legacy bearings, which were more robust. So maybe the "fix" was not done properly last time.

I would certainly call Subaru and work this out with them, you should not be paying for a 2nd set of bearings after just 20k miles!

-juice

opus9

A.J.: Thanks for your input: I will do as you've suggested. Nice taste in cars, too: my "mid-life crisis mobile" is a '92 Miata. Best car for its purpose I've ever owned!
Steve

als5

I have a 1987 subaru GL wagon with 42K miles. I had the exhaust replaced by Subaru and then they told me two cylenders had no compression and were asking a great deal of money for repair. I do a great deal of mechanical work myself. They said that I had leak by. I got the car home and checked the compression and the two cylinders on the passenger side had zero compression. I think it might bee the head gasket. Any help would be appreciated.( FWD)

cptplt

why does the 2.5 SOHC need plugs changed every 30K and the DOHC every 60K?????

jfl

I believe it's because it's harder to get to the plugs on the DOHC so they used platinum tipped plugs and gave it 60k between changes.

The SOHC uses regular plugs with 30k changes.

Recalls a story I mentioned before: my '83 Rabbit GTI specified very expensive Bosch "silver" plugs. When I changed them, the originals were plain ol' Champions! 8~P

Jim

kekoa

I'm a new member to townhall but have been reading the messages for a while and found them to be helpful as a new owner of a forester xt. The problem is between 2000 and 3000 rpm while accelerating, the engine seems to stammer, or miss, then above 3000 rpm it seems to be alright. The service dept said that computer needs to be reflashed but doesn't have the software to do it. Any feedback would be helpful.

georgeinmd

Subaru has a service bulletin concerning rear wheel bearings:
 http://www.endwrench.com/current/Current6/03/WhBearRep.pdf Might bring it to their attention.

George

ateixeira

Speaking of plugs, anyone have the part number for Bosch Platinums for the Phase I DOHC 2.5l?

I'm close to the 60k mark and starting to collect the parts needed. So far I have the air filter, PCV valve, fuel filter, gear oil, motor oil, and oil filter.

Belts are already done, timing belt is only due for inspection at 90k, change at 105k. I'll probably change that at 90k.

I figure I still need an O2 sensor (is it just one, and where?) and plugs. What about plug wires? Should I swap those out now?

That plus I'll flush the coolant. Anything I forgot?

-juice

ateixeira

kekoa: you can reset the ECU yourself. Disconnnect the negative battery terminal, wait 30 minutes. Then reconnect, have the keyless remote handy just in case. Start her up and let her idle until warm.

It'll run rich for the first tank, so mileage will be poor for that tank. It'll learn and entirely new program starting from scratch, hopefully without that hesitation.

It could be something like condensation in the gas lines. For that you could try DryGas, it helped Kate's problem with stumbling.

Al: statistically I think you're right - head gaskets are most likely. Pistong rings are far less common with Subies.

-juice

p0926

Juice- "Anything I forgot?"

Or you could just do like me (who was also facing the 60k maintenance) and swap out Sandy for a new XT! (nudge nudge)

-Frank

ateixeira

OK, but my budget is about 0.5% of that "service". ;-)

-juice

maverick1017

I would get a set of wires just in case. when I did the 60K on my DOHC it was stuck on so tightly that it took me a good two hours just get the boots off, destroyed the wires in the process. if you don't use them you can always return them.

Mike

hondafriek

I would definitely replace the spark plug wires, after 60K they are past their use by date, in the scheme of things they are not a big cash outlay.

  Also Murphys law usually comes into play in removing plug boots that have not been removed in a long time.

  Cheers Pat

ateixeira

What kind of tools to I need to access the plug? 6" extension? Do I need one of those pivoting ratchets to work around that bend?

-juice

hondafriek

You can buy a dedicated kit for plug removal, comes with pivoting ratchet and extension and plug sockets, works out cheaper than buying individual pieces.

  Cheers Pat.

jlemole

jdlangan

Away for a few days, and catching up -

I never said I preferred one of the huge SUV's - the anti SUV sentiment here seems to be mostly about bashing Excursions et al. I'm assuming that a 7 passenger Subaru would be in the size range of the 'old' Durango, or the 'new' Explorer - this is going back to '00 when Juice and others first discussed the fact that one was on the horizon, and were comparing it to the current Forester. Also, my Explorer gets pretty darned near the same mpg as the Outback does, within 2 mpg in fact, but I also have a manual transmission on both so that factors in.

I think it also depends where you live, we live in upstate - and I mean the 'real' upstate, not just north of the city - New York. Our two snowstorms so far this year have dumped 18-24 inches on us each time. We do cross country ski and flyfish, and drive into some pretty questionable spots. Would an AWD mini-van get us in and out? Don't know.

Yes, a mini-van has a good amount of cargo space, but not the heavier duty suspension to load it down as I often do the Explorer. We also tow, nothing monstrous, but more than I think a van would handle, unless you went to a big engine, etc.

Honestly, an extended cab pick-up with cap would make the most sense given what we use the vehicle for, but it wouldn't solve the kids with friends issue and I wouldn't put animals - especially injured or otherwise compromised ones - in the back w/o climate control for transport.

I certainly respect all of the opinions here, but the statement I made and what I still wish, is that a company that I like the products of, would make a larger vehicle that fits what we need, simply my own opinion -

p0926

Jeannette- Hey, there's nothing inherently wrong with not liking minivans. Personally I can't see myself behind the wheel of one either. But I do think that they are the best choice for many of those rushing to buy monster SUVs. What I find particularly irksome is the huge number of buyers who base their purchase, not on what they need but on what's the latest fad or out of a desire to keep up with the Joneses.

As far as whether a minivan is the best choice for you, that's for you to decide. But I've got in-laws who live near the Tug Hill Plateau and they have a 1980s Chrysler FWD minivan that's never gotten stuck in the snow so an AWD minivan should do fine. In regards to the other major categories, here's a comparison between the Toyota Sienna AWD and the Ford Explorer 4WD XLT:

Sienna / Explorer

Max Cargo capacity: 149 / 82 (Cu ft)
Max payload: 1325 / 1411 (lbs)
MPG: 18-24 / 15-19
HP: 230 / 239
Towing capacity: 3,5k / 7k (lbs)

As you can see, the Sienna gets significantly better gas mileage (20% better) and has a huge advantage in the cargo carrying dept (45% more). The payload is pretty much a draw (Explorer has 6% more) as is horsepower (Explorer has 4% more). The Explorer's only real advantage is when it comes to towing (50% more). Still, I would think that the Sienna's 3,500 lbs is adequate for most people.

-Frank P.

paisan

I have a place in the southern adirondacks.

-mike

PS: my dad gets in and out with his Legacy L + snow tires no problem :

kens

juice,

I've read at the other forum that NGKs are better performing than Bosch.

Ken

jlemole

I have relatives who live on the St. Regis River (north of Saranac Lake) who have survived the last umpteen years with a succession of Honda Accords!

Jon

ken_from_nj

was in geneva over xmas - my sis has been there 12 years. they run a suburban (now about 10 yrs old) and a honda accord. never have gotten stuck in snow. burban for kid/stuff/etc hauling - honda for day to day driving/commuting etc. they're thinking of replacing the burban. i recommended this 7 passenger subie thing. when does it come out?

locke2c

I'm not at all surprised. Platinum plugs are actually not better than copper, they just last longer. Change your coppers every 20k-30k miles for best performance.

-Colin

ken_from_nj

just reading up on this topic today & saw a discussion about windshield replacement. about 2 weeks ago i was cleaning my 95 crysler cirrus off after sitting all weekend under a snow/ice storm and after heating her up & clearing the windshield - i had a crack from the left to the right side of the windshield. the whole way along the bottom by the wipers. sooooo - called my insurance & comprehensive covered it after my usd 100 deductible. so only usd 100 out of my pocket - the bill was for usd 373 total per the invoice. they did it at my work while i was working in the parking garage. relatively quick/easy however that was for a simple/normal windshield - not our forester one w/the wiper heater elements. all just fyi.

ateixeira

I may be the opposite of most folks, I'm finding minivans more and more appealing. The breed has improved drastically over the past 2 years, split folding magically disappearing seats are all over the place. Add AWD, stability control, side curtain air bags, DVD players with wireless headphones, seating for 8, what more could you want?

Of course my parents didn't drive vans, they had wagons and lead sleds. So maybe I don't have the feeling that I'm driving my parents' cars.

Still, I hope Subaru can combine these best characteristics of minivans in a fun package, if so I'll be first in line.

-juice

nygreg

please move the SUV discussion to another thread and stay with Probs (opinion withheld). Thanks.

Greg

p0926

ateixeira

That *is* my problem, I need a Subaru in the lineup that meets those needs. ;-)

But back to your normally schedule program...

-juice

jlemole

The oil capacity on the Phase II motor is 4.2 U.S. quarts. If I fill the oil filter prior to screwing it on, does that amount to roughly .2 quarts? Is so, it would make adding the correct amount of oil waaaay easier.

Jon

ateixeira

Um, sure, it's 0.2 quarts. ;-)

I think it might actually be a little less, but check the dipstick.

-juice

dcm61

The OEM (non-turbo) filter takes 8 oz. (.25 qts.). I fill the filter then put the rest in the engine and add 3 more qts., for a total of 4 qts. I run the car for a day or two and check the level. The last oil change the dipstick read right on the full mark with the 4 qts. For easier dipstick reading, stop the car on the level, pull the dipstick and leave it out for a couple of hours (time may vary), insert the dipstick, pull it out and read it. You only get one chance at reading a "clean" dipstick as the dipstick will smear oil in the dipstick tube when it's pulled out.

DaveM

dill6

Just thought I'd share my experience, maybe this will be useful to someone else - my '02 WRX had the clutch shudder from the beginning, dealer 'couldn't duplicate the problem' - 'sorry, seems to be fine', etc. every time I took it in (3 times for the clutch specifically)

Finally, at 35K miles with the waranty about to expire, I wrote SOA. I tried to be reasonable and persuasive rather than ranting and raving. Within days I got a call from my dealer saying SOA had notified them that they would authorize replacement of my clutch as a 'good faith' gesture, not as a warranty item (meaning no follow-on warranty on the new clutch) if I wanted it on those terms. After a little thought I said 'OK'.

Glad I did. New clutch operates smoothly after about a month and 1,500 miles - no problems. Just got back from a Xmas trip to Jackson Hole, Wyo. where it was near zero F at night, not much warmer in the daytime - perfect behavior from the car. Its very clear to me that the original clutch was defective, or at least was not spec'd properly for the car.

I think the key in my getting a positive response from SOA was that in my letter I stressed that I was otherwise happy with the car, that I'd made every reasonable effort to deal with this through my dealer, and that if they did take care of it they MIGHT just keep me as a customer.

And now, in fact, I WILL be looking at the new Legacy's when they come out - I may wind up with an Audi, or? but I definitely will give Subaru another chance to sell me a car. If you have one of the early WRXs with the clutch shudder problem I would urge you not to give up on getting Subaru to replace the clutch.

ateixeira

Glad to hear they helped out, Bill.

-juice

subaru_team

and get a case started. Please have your VIN available and advise the Rep. that I'd like to see the case. I'm sure it will be taken care of properly.

Thanks!

Patti

subaru_team

still have the same parts warranty on this clutch. There were no "exclusions" on the goodwill gesture - that wouldn't be fair. It think what the meant was that since they couldn't duplicate the problem, they couldn't assure you that it would address the concern you were having.

I'm glad it worked out okay!

Patti

jdlangan

We also had the clutch shudder from day 1, were told it was 'normal', until ours just gave out at just over 40K - then they tried to tell us it was our driving habits as mentioned in previous posts. New clutch is great, I'd strongly suggest anyone with this issue persue it.

Be glad to drop the whole SUV/van thing, my issue was never with one or the other, but rather being accused of not having the intelligence or spine to choose what I prefer based on driving experiences and needs rather than worrying about what others think - last you'll hear on it here.

We live north of Albany, toward Saratoga, parents where we spend a lot of time live north of Utica/Rome, have a camp in the southern Catskills, spend a lot of time bopping around most of the state for rescue work and pleasure.

Juice, thank you for your usual sound advice and input on the clutch thing - heading off again -

Jeannette

paisan

I hope you can make some of the 48hrs. Blasting right through your area!

http://AZPInstalls.com/48hrs-04

Also I have a place about 40 min west of Saratoga.

-mike

mike1257

I have a 2001 Forester S Premium, 35,000 miles. Never had a problem until recently when I began to develope a hesitation at low, stop / go traffic. Did a fuel injection cleaning, but the problem persisted. It's gotten so bad now that I have stalled on two occassions; when stopped, the motor will sometimes race and I can feel a slight bounce; when accelerating from a stop, there is a delay and then an acceleration with my foot only slightly on the gas pedal. Think I might have heard a backfire, but couldn't be sure it was me given the heavy truck traffic. No lights / indicators have come on (except when stalling). Took it to a few mechanics and dealer, but they can't diagnose the problem for sure. It didn't act badly with the dealer, who thought it might be either the ratio sensor or air intake valve assembly. One mechanic thought it might be the TPS sensor, but dealer didn't think so and warned me not to let anyone adjust it. The car restarted after the stalls.

I've enjoyed reading the posts on this board, and have learned alot - hope someone might have some suggestions / perhaps a similar experience. Thanks.

subaru_team

ECU? It should have picked up the stalls. Maybe give us a call on Friday so we can check with the dealer to see what they checked. 1-800-SUBARU3. Please have the VIN and the dealer name available and let the Rep. know that I'd like to see the case.

Sorry about the problem, but I'm sure we can figure it out.

Patti

mike1257

Thanks for the quick response on New Years Eve, no less! I'll call on Friday. If it is the ratio sensor (or oxygen sensor) or air intake wouldn't that be covered by the warranty since I'm under 36,000? The dealer made it sound as if it would cost $$$. Thanks again.