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Periodic Maintenance

jahmfgjahmfg Posts: 1
edited March 2014 in Honda
I know absolutely nothing about cars. Our dealer says that we should bring our car in for a tune-up (more than just an oil change) every 7500 miles, and a major tune-up after 30000 miles. The 30000 mile check-up includes changing all the fluids, checking everything, rotating the tires, etc. It costs around $350. Are they ripping us off? Do we really need all this maintenance? I want to keep my car in great shape, but I don't want to waste money on unnecessary check ups. I get the oil changed every 4000 miles, and so far, have taken the car in for its 7500 mile tune-ups. My 30k is coming up soon.
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Comments

  • alcanalcan Posts: 2,550
    Radio/Tape Player

    REMOVAL & INSTALLATION

    Accord

    Disconnect the negative battery cable. If so equipped, disable the Supplemental Restraint System (SRS).
    Remove the floor console and the front console panel.
    Remove the ashtray and ashtray holder.
    Remove the two screws holding the radio at the rear of the unit.
    Carefully push the unit out the front of the dash. When access is gained, disconnect the multi-pin connector and the antenna cable from the unit. Remove the unit.
     
    Reinstall in the reverse order. Take great care not to damage the dash trim and instrument visor. Make certain the connectors are firmly and squarely installed. If applicable, be sure to enable the SRS.
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Posts: 1,391
    What's in a 7500 mile tune-up?
  • blerner1blerner1 Posts: 12
    All,

    I just brought my 2000 Honda Accord EXV6 in for its 30k maintenance and I was told it was going to be $300.

    The dealer also just called me and told me that my rear brake pads have less than 2mm left on them. To replace the pads, redo the rotors will be an additional $150.

    The car has 32k miles on it. Am I getting ripped off here.
  • malachy72malachy72 Posts: 325
    a brake job at 30k. However dealers are the most expensive place to get non warranty work done. Find a good (honest) local guy/shop and I don't mean a national chain.
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Posts: 1,391
    Not sure you have platinum plugs (it's highly probable).....if they are changing the spark plugs (check your owner's manual) it may not be needed (that's about $100 in parts and labor right there).

    New air filter is going in.

    You should change the transmission fluid (about $100)....

    Rear pads....turning down the rotors should only cost about 10 to 20 dollars. It should cost less than $100 to do the rear brakes.
  • bburton1bburton1 Posts: 395
    Regarding disc brake rotors-some places like to "true" them up by grinding every time they change pads. A useless waste of money which will really cost you when they finally get them so thin the rotors have to be replaced. Grinding/turning a rotor that is not warped is gross-went with a friend to have maintenace done on his BMW-had a very in the face screaming match with the maintenance super-went home and on the way got rear pads and did it myself in less than 30 minutes for 1/10 of what the crooks wanted.

    Yeah find somebody other than a dealer to do non warranty work or do it yourself. Changing ATF is really easy on most cars. Just use the right one. I can change brake pads on my accord in less than 30 minutes.

    Be careful out there-not all dealers are crooks but some are.
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Posts: 1,518
    All over the "Maintenance & Repair" sector, I repeatedly note that I am one of the slowest, although most experienced, of posters. Change the brake pads on the rear of a car in 30 minutes? It takes that long to do the preliminary preparations that lead to starting the work-- for me. You fast handed tool twisters are, well, apparently danged fast. (:oÞ
  • venanzikvenanzik Posts: 72
    Is there a transmission filter within the transmission on this car? It is an automatic. Also, I am planning on getting the coolent changed since i am not sure if it has ever been done (wifes car)and was wondering if a flush and fill would be needed or just a drain and fill? the coolent looks normal in color. May as well ask one more. I noticed it burning more oil, what fixes will prevent this (the car does not leak oil)?
    Car has 135K.
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Posts: 1,391
    Whatever floats your boat.

    I personally prefer turning or replacing my rotors, just to get a nice flat surface on the rotors for the pads to bed properly.

    It costs me more money in the long run....but that's what floats my boat.

    The oil...try Max Life. The STP is just a viscosity enhancer, which makes the oil really thick, not quite ideal for cold starting conditions. I'd check the exhaust to see if there's any blue smoke coming out.

    Coolant....I always do a water flush and fill.

    ATF: drop the pan and go the whole nine yards.
  • malachy72malachy72 Posts: 325
    the oil is not black, is it and your not seeing smoke from under the hood after shutting it off or while idling? You're probably getting some blow by at this mileage. 1 qt. every 1k to 2k miles really not too bad. You might try a high mileage oil like Max Life or just some STP if it annoys you, but again really not a problem.
  • armtdmarmtdm Posts: 2,057
    Whta th dealer says is required maintenacne is different then what the manula says. The dealer has to make a boat payment that is probably due.

    Never bring a car in for a 30,000 etc maintenance look in the manual and only ask for what requires replacement. the inspection items are a rip off and by not having them inspected does not void your warranty. Do only the required replacement items.
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Posts: 1,518
    Not quite the facts on the STP Oil Treatment. Yes, it is a high viscosity product, but you may not be aware that a major ingredient is zinc dialkyldithiophosphate. This chemical is known to be a significant antiwear additive. It is the very ingredient that has been decreased in SJ and SL engine lubricants, ostensibly to increase mileage and/or better protect catalytic converters at the potential peril of premature engine wear.
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Posts: 1,391
    STP sells two types of oil treatments

    The standard oil treatment (blue bottle) is basically a viscosity index improver

    The 4 cylinder oil treatment (red bottle) is that and contains the anti-wear additives (as you mentioned)
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Posts: 1,518
    I think that if you read the labels carefully you'll see that the blue bottle product has ZDDP additive in it, too.
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Posts: 1,391
    Maybe I gotta hit the Wal-Mart when I go home today
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Posts: 1,391
    yep zddp is in there.
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Posts: 1,518
    I truly wonder what the measured effect of the added ZDDP actually is. You can buy a Walmart house brand of very similar shelf appearance for about half the STP price.
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Posts: 1,391
    http://skepdic.com/slick50.html
    Whether it's trustworthy source....I don't know
  • apurushapurush Posts: 10
    How much did you guys pay for 60K scheduled maintenance? I am getting a quote for $300 in the Atlanta area.

    Thanks.
  • mrdetailermrdetailer Posts: 1,118
    I absolutely change power steering, brake and transmission fluids at that level. Will it also include a tuneup? They often want to do an oil change, but I always do that on my schedule. Change timing belt if called for also. Durn, I can just hear the cash machine going ca ching.

    Seriously, dealers are more conservative and want to maintain your vehicle well for you. The Manufacturers are interested in cutting costs since costs of maintenence are now routinely published and compared.

    It's a tough balance.
  • malachy72malachy72 Posts: 325
    a 99 cents store out there. You can get STP for a buck, I've seen STP car wax for a buck. I know it's not zaino, but I'm no fanatic, just looking for a little protection.
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Posts: 1,518
    I'll be looking around. I may be the only person in the Edmunds forum that doesn't know ANYTHING about Zaino. Now Drano is another story...
  • swschradswschrad Posts: 2,171
    a highly tested and thoroughly recommended product that cures cancer, heals the sick and lame, causes blistering paint to fasten back on tightly again, gets country singers back with the babe (the car starts again, the bottle is full, the dog doesn't bite, etc.) causes warts to fall off and the bushes out back to leaf out in $100 bills... and is BOTH a floor wax AND a dessert topping!

    call 1-900-gimme-mo today!
  • heather99heather99 Posts: 6
    i have a '99 accord lx 4dr and would like to clean the throttle body myself this time. i've had two occasions wherein my gas pedal sticks the first time i'm about to drive my car. i had to loosen it first by stepping on it to clear whatever is causing that. otherwise, my car will do a jack-rabbit once i get it moving. had my 2 dealers check it and they were both consistent in pointing to the throttle body as the culprit. they say that it needs to be cleaned because of dirt accumulation both airborne and from the fuel line. if this is going to be happening again in the future then i might as well do it myself and save the $80 they are charging me.

    any pointers on how to properly do it? thanks a lot.
  • alcanalcan Posts: 2,550
    Remove the air intake ducting to expose the throttle body, hold the throttle wide open to expose the back of the throttle plate and the area behind it, and liberally spray with an aerosol air intake/throttle body cleaner (NOT carburator cleaner). Scrub it all with an old toothbrush until the bore and throttle plate are clean. Done deal.
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Posts: 1,518
    Why the caveat against carburetor cleaner? And is the "throttle body/air intake" cleaner readily available? Shed some light here, your professorship! Many thanks. >;^]
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Posts: 1,391
    Carb cleaners contain a dry lubricant which keeps the butterfly nice and lubed. Never had a problem with carb cleaner cleaning my throttle body. It's less expensive too.

    CRC makes a specific Throttle body cleaner.
  • alcanalcan Posts: 2,550
    Carburator cleaner is pretty strong stuff, it's formulated to dissolve the varnish build-up from evaporating gasoline. Does a pretty good job of damaging the factory coating on some FI throttle body bores and might not be O2 sensor compatible. Air intake (throttle body) cleaner is designed to remove the softer, sticky carbon build-up in FI intake systems and is 02 sensor safe. Since carbs are going the way of the dodo bird where I'm from, there are a lot more aerosol air intake cleaner choices in the auto parts stores than carb cleaners. It beats me why some DIY'ers intentionally choose the wrong product for a job when the right one is sitting next to it on the shelf.
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Posts: 1,518
    All my 4 wheelers have fuel injection, and I have taken to using my oldest containers of carb cleaner for spot cleaning concrete in my garage. I haven't bought a new container of the stuff in several years now. For whatever reason, I have never noted the presence of air intake/throttle body cleaner in auto parts stores. I'll sure keep an eye peeled for same.
  • inkieinkie Posts: 281
    Alcan is right on the money. Most carb. cleaners contain harsh aromatic solvents that will cause damage to the components in the throttle body assembly including the sensors.
    If the ingredients on the cans of STP or Wallmarts alternate does not list the percentage of zddp write to the manufacturer and ask for a MSDS sheet this sheet usually lists all the ingredients over .25% unless its a trade secret.
  • swschradswschrad Posts: 2,171
    if you are dealing with a savvy outfit that understands the Federal laws that require the MSDS be readily availiable to users if ingredients mandate one, they will have them on their web site. in 3M's case, it's a click from just about any product page to the MSDS, and the one time I went to the dupont site, it was also right there.

    if you're talking about Sleepy Joe's Creepy Crud, however, not being able to find the MSDS should tell you something all by itself.

    now, if they were all availiable in one central location like www.whatsinthisstuff.nonexistent, that would be really nice.
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Posts: 1,518
    Good thoughts and info. I gotta remember to shop for some of that thar stuff...
  • venanzikvenanzik Posts: 72
    hi all, a few questions here.
    first: can a do it yourself person who chages oil and filters handle changing hoses and belts with normal gargage tools or is this somthing a garage should handle?.
    Second: if i was to change the hoses. How do you access the bottom hose comming off the radiator? it seems to be behind the plastic guard under the bumper.
    Third: are the belts easy to change? is there a tension spring or is it held tight by losening some screws? easy or hard job?

    Any help and thoughts would be appreciated thanks
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Posts: 1,518
    ...as an expert makes it appear. You might do well to "assist" a knowledgeable friend while he does some of the procedures you are interested in. That reminds me of the old adage, "See one, do one, teach one." (:o]
  • swschradswschrad Posts: 2,171
    yes, the old "gotcha" comes out again. nothing is easy, there is always one car model out there in which you have to hoist the engine and take off the right rear fender to get to the radiator cap, and there are no commonalities.

    that said... provided you can get access to the clamps, pulleys, and tensioner involved in a particular car, it ain't brain surgery.

    I just discovered, thinking ahead to possible breakdown causes as I tow a load to a vacation in east bloody noplace, that I have a little issue if my serpentine belt snaps or gets flipped. no problem getting a belt here, so I have one in back.

    the issue is that my 5.0L / 321 mill in my 2K exploder has a tensioner that is really inaccessable due to the oversized alternator and radiator of the tow package. and I can't see anything to grab onto to pull the thing up... excuse me, get underneath the car and PUSH away... except the pulley bolt on the dern thing. can't pry, it is next to the sender "gear" and the crank position sensor. hose those up, you are walking, no doubt. good thing the belt is in great shape, but you never know 60 miles from the nearest dealer....

    there is always one hose end someplace, I find, that is the billy devil to get a screwdriver or clamp tool (vise-grip is my version) onto. and with the tighter clearances, you have to be sure you get the hose alignment marks right. cheap hoses don't have any, which makes that more difficult.

    look over what you got, and try to reach everything you will have to fiddle with, before you decide to hit the parts store.
  • coleboycoleboy Posts: 13
    My dealership charges $10 more than their normal price for oil changes on my 2002 Odyssey. They say it's because these vehicles need a 'special' kind of oil. Is everyone else experiencing this with their newer Accords & Odysseys?
  • malachy72malachy72 Posts: 325
    are now recommending 5-20 weight oil in new vehicles. I've seen the Pennzoil version at Wal-Mart and it cost the same as the other Pennzoil weights.

    You might just call a quick lube place and ask if they charge extra for the 5-20 change. I'm sure they don't. Then tell the dealer of your findings.

    Just a thought.
  • crv16crv16 Posts: 205
    As with my '01 Accord, the new Honda's require 5w20 oil. While hard to find, it's no more expensive than the other blend oils. I've bought 4 cases, with them not being more than $1.50 per quart.
  • malachy72malachy72 Posts: 325
    Thanks to the guys at Performance Oil Technology.........

    New for model year 2001: Ford and Honda specify 5W-20 motor oil for ALL cars and light trucks.

    Ford and Honda disguise the real reason by telling customers it is better for their vehicle. DON'T BELIEVE IT! Ford even went as far as to print "Use 5W-20 oil only" in bright yellow on the oil filler cap.

    They are NOT looking out for the customers best interest. They are looking out for their best interest which ultimately results in more billions of dollars profit for them while all you end up with is less protection for your engine and an engine which will wearout sooner. Read on to learn the TRUTH behind 5W-20 and beware because more OEM's will be doing the same thing in the years to come.

    Question: My owners manual specifies 5W-20 oil. Do I really need to use 5W-20 oil and why did my 2000 model year vehicle require a 5W-30 oil, while the exact same engine in my 2001 and 2002 requires a 5W-20 oil?

    Answer: Absolutely Not! You DO NOT need to use a 5W-20 oil. Do not let your dealer scare you by telling you that you have to use it for your warranty. That is one of the biggest lies and deceptions that dealerships use to scare customers. Once you know the facts and the law you will be much better informed to protect your rights and use what is really best for your engine.

    The ONLY reason 5W-20 was specified for your engine is to increase the CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) reported to the Federal Government. CAFE is the combined average fuel economy of all of a vehicle manufacturers product line. Minimum CAFE levels are specified by the Federal Government. In order for a vehicle manufacturer to continue selling profitable large trucks and SUV's, which typically have poor fuel mileage ratings, as compared to smaller cars, and still meet mandated CAFE requirements, they must also sell enough of the smaller cars which have much better fuel economy ratings to offset the poor fuel economy ratings of the larger vehicles. For model year 2001, the change to a 5W-20 oil will allow Ford and Honda's overall CAFE to increase by a very small amount, typically in the tenths of a mile per gallon range. 5W-20 oil is a lighter viscosity than a 5W-30 oil and therefore has less internal engine frictional losses, or less drag on the crankshaft, pistons and valvetrain, which in turn promotes increased fuel economy. This increased fuel economy is virtually undetectable to the average motorist without the use of specialized engine monitoring and testing equipment under strictly controlled test track driving when compared to a 5W-30, 10W-30 or a 0W-30 viscosity motor oil.

    Therefore, 5W-20 has absolutely no benefit to you, the customer, other than to make you have to buy their expensive Honda or Motorcraft oil (which neither Honda or Ford actually manufacturers an oil; they simply source it to the low bidder) and get an oil which provides less protection for your engine!

    Question: What are the negative aspects of using a 5W-20 motor oil?

    Answer: There are many negative aspects, the most important is that 5W-20 has less film and shear strength than a 5W-30, 10W-30 or a 0W-30 motor oil. This can lead to increased and accelerated engine wear under today's demanding heat and high stress engine operating conditions. In our analysis, there is a limit to how light of a viscosity an engine oil can go, as a light viscosity oil such as 5W-20 offers less protection for your engine. What's going to be next 5W-10? If you operate under severe service conditions such as towing trailers, hauling heavy loads, stop and go driving in hot weather or sustained high speeds on the highway then you are even in a worse predicament. You would be much better off using either a 5W-30, 10W-30 or a 0W-30 motor oil.

    Question: Could using a 5W-30, 10W-30, 0W-30 or even a 10W-40 or 20W-50, oil in my vehicle which specifies a 5W-20 oil void my new car warranty?

    Answer: ABSOLUTELY NOT! Vehicle manufacturers only recommend using motor oils meeting certain viscosity grades and American Petroleum Institute service requirements. Whether a motor oil is a 5W-20, 5W-30, 10W-30, 0W-30, 10W-40 or 20W-50 (for racing and high performance applications in, for example, a Cobra R Mustang) or even a synthetic vs. a petroleum based oil will not affect warranty coverage. The manufacturer is required by Federal Law to cover all equipment failures it would normally cover as long as the oil meets API service requirements and specifications and was not the cause of failure. In addition, the Federally mandated Magnuson - Moss Act states that a manufacturer may not require a specific brand or type of aftermarket product unless it is provided free of charge. If your dealership continues to tell you that you must use 5W-20 motor oil and or/ a specific brand of 5W-20 motor oil, then ask them to put it in writing. Their position is inaccurate, and, in fact violates existing law.

    Additionally, if there is ever a question of whether or not a particular motor oil was the cause of an engine failure make sure to get a sample of the used oil in a clean bottle, typically 6 oz. minimum. The oil can then be sent to two independent testing labs for analysis. This is standard procedure for most commercial vehicles, trucking, construction/excavation and fleet companies and there are numerous certified test labs all over the country. Remember, a knowledgeable and informed consumer is your best defense against being taken advantage of by a car dealership service center.
  • I hope you are right on the "...will not void the warranty." Did you note any supporting evidence other than what you have said above?
  • zueslewiszueslewis Posts: 2,353
    you call the "Magnuson-Moss" police. Lemon law firms have been trying to get manufacturers to comply with Mag-Moss and state lemon law statutes for a while, and the manufacturers will not do it unless they've been sued and are in the final stages of litigation.

    What in the WORLD makes you think they won't deny an individual's warranty claim? They will, they have and they will continue. Please - ask me how I know!
  • malachy72malachy72 Posts: 325
    says I found this on another board. It may, in fact, be some MLM oil sales pitch. Sorry if that was not understood. Hopefully, some one can come along and further clarify.
  • malachy72malachy72 Posts: 325
    c'mon tell the story.
  • malachy72malachy72 Posts: 325
    I contacted the guy who posted the Q & A about engine oil viscosities vis a vis manufacturer's warranties. He said that he found the info on an AMSOIL website.
  • zueslewiszueslewis Posts: 2,353
    but they're trying to incline some consumer confidence. AMSOIL is correct in the Mag-Moss theory, but that still doesn't keep the manufacturer from analyzing your oil after you lose your engine, finding that it was not the oil they mandated, and denying your claim, making your life rough with no car for the year until your sue someone and win in court.

    The law is great for rattling cages, but when you are forced to use it, time stands still.

    As a service manager, I've seen several warranty claims denied for incorrect oil usage. I'm certainly not saying it should have happened, just that it did.
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Posts: 1,391
    the only thing I have against Amsoil is....most of their oil (except the XL7500) are not API certified....yet they claim it meets and/or exceeds SJ/SL specs.
  • zueslewiszueslewis Posts: 2,353
    that make claims that aren't substantiated. The claims are hardly ever challenged, so why worry? They can pretty much say what they want.
  • malachy72malachy72 Posts: 325
    the general issues surrounding claim denials, i.e., the engine, the type of oil used, miles, etc.
  • zueslewiszueslewis Posts: 2,353
    is lack of documentation for maintenance.

    I don't care if you go to Jiffy Lube, the dealer, Uncle Fred or if you buy your oil and filter at Wal-Mart and do it in your driveway, save your invoice! If you buy your own, write the date and mileage on the receipt - it's that easy.

    All a person has to prove is that a level of maintenance was done that meets the manufacturer's requirements.

    I know many people do their own LOFs, but "I do my own LOFs and don't keep receipts" is exactly what a manufacturer rep or extended warranty adjuster wants to hear. That's their "out" and their fully within their rights to deny the claim if you can't PROVE you've done maintenance.

    You can call Uncle Fred in an arbitration, but without an invoice, his testimony is worthless. At that point, you've already lost use of your car for a long time anyway.
  • Your several responses starting with #45 are supportive of the attitudes and conclusions I came to many years ago concerning vehicle choices: Do not buy a vehicle in which you have less than high confidence, regardless of the manufacturer's warranty. When I get hit up to buy extended warranties, I enjoy telling the sales people that if I thought I needed such a warranty, I would not have bought that car. I express this attitude because, if you DO HAVE TROUBLE, the chance that you will get satisfaction (at a reasonable price in emotion, time, effort, and money) is almost zero-- period.
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