I have to disagree on the extended warranty issue.
I have seen extended warranties pay for themselves and my decision to support them has nothing to do with the reliability of the vehicle. I wouldn't be buying a new car that I didn't KNOW had a great reliability record (sorry, Kia).
I don't buy warranties on stereos, TVs, etc - items with little or no moving parts.
The only way I recommend extended warranties on cars and trucks is if a plan is a factory plan, suits your needs, covers the components you need and you can negotiate a great price.
Buying an aftermarket contract is a waste of time - so is paying too much for anything.
what would you say per thousand might be the numbers of engines failed during the typical warranty period. Before the Toyota issue were there any significant occurrences?
my wife's '01 Sport Trac w/ 25k miles is due for an oil change. I bought Chevron Supreme SL 10-30. The manual suggests 5-30. I figured in the summer it might actually be a better oil. I don't want to turn this into an oil board, but how dangerously am I living here?
Just kidding - the differences are negligable, although some statistic toting, no common sense engineers may argue with you. Good thing we don't have any of those here on Edmunds.
OEM oil recommendations are for ideal conditions and ideal fuel economy situations, as manufacturers are incentivized by the government for beating CAFE standards. Most mfrs use a standard oil weight through the entire engine line - these standards do not take into account the temperature variations, operating range and driving style of each driver.
In short, they're too general to apply to most people's cars.
"Good thing we don't have any of those here on Edmunds." I presume that is jestfully postured, on the basis that anyone who has posted advice more than twice in this category is at least a "common sense engineer." (:o]
I find that in many areas, there is a sliding scale. The more education a person has, or thinks he has, the less common sense. That explains the rocket scientists who have a hard time tying their shoes.
Zueslewis and Fleetwoodsimca both have some very good suggestions and are very helpful. The highly technical complexity of cars today and the difficulity of finding a compitent and especially honest mechanic is even harder. I try to perform as much periodic maintenance on both my '98 V6 and '00 SE. Last week the check engine light came on on the 2000 Accord. After diagnosis, Honda svc. mgr. said that they will replace the oxy. sensor, replace the ECM, and replace the injectors. S.M. stated that this was a 'common' problem with this year and engine (2.0Lfi). Seems pretty extreme,....course that may just be the engineer in me.
You're very kind. I agree on your assessment of "Seems pretty extreme,...." Do you have a lot of miles on the car? I am wondering if you will be able to avoid some of the expense due to warranty regulations on emissions control devices, or other warranty items.
to my 2000 Accord, 2.0L, with only 28,750 miles. Fleetwoodsimca, I thought that this condition was like the annoying service engine light. I guess I should have asked to get the diagnosis code in writing, but this particular dealership seems pretty honest so I doubt if that will be a problem. Based on year and/or milage the vehicle is still under warranty, outside of that, it may have been a fairly costly repair. Any suggestions on web sites or other areas that may have information about recalls or common problems. My wife has the '98 V6 and we are seeing more issues and topics on common problems with this model. I guess I need to mention that our first Honda, a '85 Lxi, was perhaps the least costly vehicle to maintain and repair. In the thirteen years we had this vehicle, our repairs were less than $1800. Easy to see why we went back. Again, thanks and keep up the good work. If anyone knows how I can get in contact with Hondaguy, please forward.
I have an 02 Accord EXv6 with 24.3K miles. My honda dealer sent me a letter recently telling me to do 22,5Kmile Scheduled Maintenance which will cost 101.95+Tax. I was just wondering if I can skip some scheduled maintenance services, but just change the oil and filter instead?
This maintenance includes the followings: 1)Replace engine oil, filter and drain plug washer 2)inspect front brake pads, calipers,discs and hoses 3)inspect wiper blades 4)inspect exhaust and steering systems and suspension mounts 5)inspect and rotate tires 6)check/adjust fluid levels 7) road test Thanks in advance
they do that on those few cars whose trim letters get installed backwards. quite a few now have heard that "DROF" means driver returns on foot.
> seriously < , now, folks... inspections protect them and can steer business. the dealer keeps a copy of those reports, and if you have five "LF tire low and brakes need work" in your file and sue because the tire and the car parted company on a hard turn on the Interstate, they have a "get out of jail free" card in their folder.
the "suggested maintenance list" which is generally passed about now, including such things as rotating the battery water and replacing the lug nuts every 10,000 miles, is designed to see if any local villages have lost their idiot.
I've got my own consulting thing going and it's pro-consumer and anti-manufacturer.
I've got a load of credits stacked up where I only need 8 more for my master's. I can CLEP the 4 math courses - love that CLEP thing - that and the Texas Homestead Act.
Thanks very much for your responses. I'll just have a regular oil change for my 01 Ex V6. Here is another question for you. My 01 Accord is still under warranty, if I skip some scheduled maintenance and if there are some problems with my car later on, are these problem going to be covered by the warranty? I never really read the warranty for my car. Thanks in advance for your information
like a transmission replacement if you haven't done the required services. I've seen a few problems with Honda Accords and Odyssey transmissions -
It all depends on the service department, service manager, etc. Things like transmission services are good to keep up with, although I disagree with the manufacturer's recommended frequency in most cases. You also don't have to pay $125 at the dealer when you can have the service done for $49.95 at AAMCO. It doesn't matter where it was done, just that it happened.
as long as the parts/fluids/supplies meet the car maker's standards, you are free to shop around. if you buy "GN oil" and "parkoliter" filters, they might not be up to standards. if you don't recognize the brand name, be suspicious... and squint hard, some of the forgeries are clever.
as a general rule, if you do your required services and keep the receipts, you have some power in the relationship.
if you do the "optional" services and keep your receipts, you may have over-serviced, but the only thing that gets hurt is the pocketbook.
if you analyze the driving you do, and perform the proper service schedule, and keep your receipts, you are in the strongest position. for instance, I do 12 miles to work each day, and I do it on class-B roads, not the interstates, because I don't like the pinheads and roadhogs and pretend-fighter-pilots who are out there to poison the commute. that puts me in "severe service".
I pay a little more to the car mechanics, I keep my cool and don't pay the money to my cardiologist and the support staff on the cardiac ICU wing, and do better in the end. since I don't try tearing off the roof when something does finally go wrong on my cars, the dealer treats me properly.
You have hit upon one of my strongest observations: There are people like you and me that seem to have very little trouble with most any motor vehicle we own and use personally. There are others out there that have lots of problems with the very same models and years of vehicles. Young drivers in the early years of operating vehicles tend to have many problems, and yet later in life, some of them seem to move out of that category. Others seem to have vehicle problems follow them like a shadow through life. I have my theory and explanation for this phenomenon, as do you, I'm sure. >:oÞ
or at least, that may be part of it. over the years, through many little fits of intemperance and mistakes, I have found that things done in haste and with Big Freaking Hammers tend to break, often rather spectacularly and occasionally rather publicly.
I had an uncle that couldn't get 15,000 miles off a new car before something monstrous would start conking out. car after car after car after car. they got into the hundred-thousand club around our neighborhood.
part of it is maintenance, part of it is not beating the machine up. if a race team gets a couple thousand miles off an engine, it appears to be pretty unusual... they do trials, workups, the race, and if it was a 400 to 600 miler, it's time for another mill and put this one into a backup or photo car. that's because they have shaved and stroked the engine to its limits, and they don't like to have 'em blow on the 24th lap any more, it gets too expensive on the circuit.
ymmv, especially on the state fair circuit, but it should argue the point until somebody points out that their man Goosey Wallwhacker runs two seasons on each junkyard pull, and all he does is file the points......
"Those (insert car here) are pieces of junk". It usually comes back to lack of maintenance and the presence of abuse. The abuse doesn't mean they're drag racing the car, they're just poor drivers.
It's always someone else's fault - the car, the manufacturer, the dealer, their neighbor for recommending the piece of junk - never the owner - it kills me.
where the manufacturer had replaced the clutch three times out of goodwill and the guy was still complaining at 30,000 miles. I told him to do the right thing and buy a performance clutch. The manufacturer didn't have to replace the clutch the first time, dummy.
not the gadget but the goon. However, that being said, there are some cars that just are cow dung. I've owned Hondas for the past 15 years and I'm pretty fair about the maintenance , with belts, hoses, timing belt, fluid changes etc. But from what I've read, the same attention to a Ford Focus for example, might not yield the same results with a significant difference statistically. BTW, I'm very jaded as my first car was new '72 Vega.
well, I'm sure you're still driving that Vega, then, eh? the old Iron Duke, yes sir, they don't make 'em like that any more.
nope, nowadays they make engines that get out of their own way, at least once, somewhere
if you have a pure yapping dog, keeping up with the maintenance and avoiding beating on it will get you to "worst car I ever had" status. not doing so means it goes in the yard on blocks along with the Yugos and the Gremlin and the Vega.
there WERE vegas that lasted long enough to go down the road flapping their fenders like birds, shaking rust flakes over everything on either side.
the owners were helped by the fact that it only took a few years to corrode to junk, though
were on their second or third engines. Only thing worthwhile when I got rid of it were the Michelin Radials which gave a smooth ride. Of course the engine block was cracked so speed or going uphill was not an issue. The rust was another story. GM should have gotten together with Anheuser-Busch and made the body out of beer cans.
my grandparents bought a new vega wagon in 1977 that car had 246000 miles on it when they got rid of it and it still ran all they did was regular maintainence it was a great car for them never let the down once
Some of the vehicle abusers don't act with negligence. They just don't have, and some never develop, a sense of the mechanical. They never become intuitive about the signals the vehicle is sending to them through the chassis and steering wheel, the wheels, the engine. To them, the vehicle never acquires an aura of communication. And don't you hate to suggest anything to people who presume you to then be responsible for THEIR results!
I believe it's every father's or big brother's responsibility to learn about automobiles and pass info on to new drivers in the family. I can't count the times I've had experience with guys who didn't know where their spare tire was, ladies who didn't know which side the gas door was on and people who couldn't set the clock or adjust power mirrors.
We KNOW the really important things like checking the oil and taking the car to the shop when it makes a funny noise are being completely neglected.
I have a 92 accord with 95k. I emailed the local dealer asking how much it would cost to change the timming belt. He emailed me back saying
"When we replace the engine timing belt we also recommend replacing the engine drive belts and several seals located behind the timing cover as well. The estimate to complete these repairs is $575 + tax. The service can be completed in one day."
Is this a resonable price?
Do I need the extra stuff done?
Could my local mechanic handle this? (no doubt he would be cheaper)
I seem to remember a problem with higher mileage '90-'93 accord oil seals blowing out. If you decide not to replace the seal, at least get the retainer clip installed.
Does that price include the water pump also?
I drive an '01 LX w/77k miles and my accessory belts look almost new. Yours is 10 years old, so maybe it is time to replace. Since I haven't had to replace my timing belt yet, I don't have any pricing info. But, I'm sure many others with accords will respond. If not here, go to the accord problem thread and post there.
To me that seems a bit high for belts and a seal, but dealers are always trying to find the upper limit that their customers are willing to pay for every job.
According to the pages at ahm-ownerlink.com, the 2003 Accord I4, CRV, and Civic seem to specify oil changes every 10,000 miles, but oil filter replacement only every 20,000. I don't take issue with the extended oil change interval (for normal conditions), but how responsible is it to skip the oil filter every other time? I was under the impression that the filter was at least as vital as the oil to maintaining the engine. Perhaps Honda is building their engines so tight these days that very few combustion particles make their way into the oil. Any comments?
if there wasn't enough slip between the rings and the cylinder walls to let some debris from explosions into the cylinders and eventually into the oil, there would not be enough slip for the pistons to move when the explosions occurred. and the engine would not run. so that ain't it.
some microscopic dirt is supposed to be suspended in oil and kept from plating out again by the detergents and additive package. but most of the crud is supposed to be trapped in the filter.
which has to mean that Honda is full of beans about filters being good for 20,000 miles. of course, they charge two to five times what they should for those oil filters, so maybe it's diplomacy , but the fact is I would never leave an oil filter in a car for 5000, let alone 20,000. ever. not even in the original box in the trunk would I leave one in my truck for 5000 miles.
Under the "severe service" schedule, they specify oil every 5,000 miles, but filter only every 10. I am not a big fan of dealers adding their own interpretations to the factory maintenance schedule, but I think most shops would change the filter every time they change the oil. The two seem to go hand in hand.
As for filter prices, hondrparts.com has them for $4.25 each. Word on the street is that Fram makes some of Honda's OEM filters now, so there may be better alternatives.
Changed my filter at 3500 miles especially with the 5W20 recommended oil its pretty thin. Just to let you know the filter is midget size but pretty sturdy. I did not see any filters as a replacement for this dinky Honda filter they put on the CRV but be very careful if you see any. the Honda filter has a large valve on the bottom and it does not look as if they are using paper filter media. And I do agree, anyone that goes 10,000 without a oil change is asking for trouble.Maybe Honda is using the lengthy oil change as a selling point to court people that lease.
"...anyone that goes 10,000 without a oil change is asking for trouble."
Then I will gladly be the test case as long as I own my Jetta VR6. 12 months or 10,000 miles is the specified interval (yes, both oil and filter get changed, and I use synthetic even though it's not required). I know what you're thinking, better me undermaintain my car than you, right?
On the other side of the coin, you have a good point about the 5w20 oil. As it is used and breaks down, it will thin to some extent. I don't think you'd want it much thinner than 20. Many people have recommended switching the cars that recommend 5w20 to a 5w30 or 10w30 oil, as these oils tend to be more durable. It's something you might want to look into since you appear to be interested in taking the utmost care of your car.
Asked Honda customer service tecs. if going to 5W30 is okay. Answer was: you will void warranty so I will stick with the light oil and change often.I will probably change oils after warranty expires. With synthetics you have a better chance of getting your 10,000 miles. Good Luck!
it isn't mandatory that you go with a 10,000 mile oil change frequency - you can change it whenever you want. Honda's mandatory oil change frequency is simply the minimum allowed before engine warranty claims are denied.
Chevrolet recommends 7,500 miles for light duty. Every Chevy tech I know still recommends 3-4K intervals. Chevy may deny your engine claim if you can't prove you're changed the oil at least every 7,500 miles. It's simple - you guys make things too hard.
So right! Now, I would elect to drop down to 3-4K intervals for oil and filter changes. It is very little expense to help protect a very large investment-- a new car or truck.
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Comments
I have seen extended warranties pay for themselves and my decision to support them has nothing to do with the reliability of the vehicle. I wouldn't be buying a new car that I didn't KNOW had a great reliability record (sorry, Kia).
I don't buy warranties on stereos, TVs, etc - items with little or no moving parts.
The only way I recommend extended warranties on cars and trucks is if a plan is a factory plan, suits your needs, covers the components you need and you can negotiate a great price.
Buying an aftermarket contract is a waste of time - so is paying too much for anything.
Plus, there's no way to really get that information.
OEM oil recommendations are for ideal conditions and ideal fuel economy situations, as manufacturers are incentivized by the government for beating CAFE standards. Most mfrs use a standard oil weight through the entire engine line - these standards do not take into account the temperature variations, operating range and driving style of each driver.
In short, they're too general to apply to most people's cars.
I presume that is jestfully postured, on the basis that anyone who has posted advice more than twice in this category is at least a "common sense engineer." (:o]
I find that in many areas, there is a sliding scale. The more education a person has, or thinks he has, the less common sense. That explains the rocket scientists who have a hard time tying their shoes.
This maintenance includes the followings:
1)Replace engine oil, filter and drain plug washer
2)inspect front brake pads, calipers,discs and hoses
3)inspect wiper blades
4)inspect exhaust and steering systems and suspension mounts
5)inspect and rotate tires
6)check/adjust fluid levels
7) road test
Thanks in advance
sounds like you are spending $70 for the "H" of it.
Greetings from sunny Miami.
> seriously < , now, folks... inspections protect them and can steer business. the dealer keeps a copy of those reports, and if you have five "LF tire low and brakes need work" in your file and sue because the tire and the car parted company on a hard turn on the Interstate, they have a "get out of jail free" card in their folder.
the "suggested maintenance list" which is generally passed about now, including such things as rotating the battery water and replacing the lug nuts every 10,000 miles, is designed to see if any local villages have lost their idiot.
A great way to get your foot in the door with the automotive companies.
I've got a load of credits stacked up where I only need 8 more for my master's. I can CLEP the 4 math courses - love that CLEP thing - that and the Texas Homestead Act.
Thanks in advance for your information
It all depends on the service department, service manager, etc. Things like transmission services are good to keep up with, although I disagree with the manufacturer's recommended frequency in most cases. You also don't have to pay $125 at the dealer when you can have the service done for $49.95 at AAMCO. It doesn't matter where it was done, just that it happened.
as a general rule, if you do your required services and keep the receipts, you have some power in the relationship.
if you do the "optional" services and keep your receipts, you may have over-serviced, but the only thing that gets hurt is the pocketbook.
if you analyze the driving you do, and perform the proper service schedule, and keep your receipts, you are in the strongest position. for instance, I do 12 miles to work each day, and I do it on class-B roads, not the interstates, because I don't like the pinheads and roadhogs and pretend-fighter-pilots who are out there to poison the commute. that puts me in "severe service".
I pay a little more to the car mechanics, I keep my cool and don't pay the money to my cardiologist and the support staff on the cardiac ICU wing, and do better in the end. since I don't try tearing off the roof when something does finally go wrong on my cars, the dealer treats me properly.
I also don't have much trouble.
I had an uncle that couldn't get 15,000 miles off a new car before something monstrous would start conking out. car after car after car after car. they got into the hundred-thousand club around our neighborhood.
part of it is maintenance, part of it is not beating the machine up. if a race team gets a couple thousand miles off an engine, it appears to be pretty unusual... they do trials, workups, the race, and if it was a 400 to 600 miler, it's time for another mill and put this one into a backup or photo car. that's because they have shaved and stroked the engine to its limits, and they don't like to have 'em blow on the 24th lap any more, it gets too expensive on the circuit.
ymmv, especially on the state fair circuit, but it should argue the point until somebody points out that their man Goosey Wallwhacker runs two seasons on each junkyard pull, and all he does is file the points......
It's always someone else's fault - the car, the manufacturer, the dealer, their neighbor for recommending the piece of junk - never the owner - it kills me.
nope, nowadays they make engines that get out of their own way, at least once, somewhere
if you have a pure yapping dog, keeping up with the maintenance and avoiding beating on it will get you to "worst car I ever had" status. not doing so means it goes in the yard on blocks along with the Yugos and the Gremlin and the Vega.
there WERE vegas that lasted long enough to go down the road flapping their fenders like birds, shaking rust flakes over everything on either side.
the owners were helped by the fact that it only took a few years to corrode to junk, though
We KNOW the really important things like checking the oil and taking the car to the shop when it makes a funny noise are being completely neglected.
"When we replace the engine timing belt we also
recommend replacing the engine drive belts and several seals located behind the timing cover as well. The estimate to complete these repairs is $575 + tax. The service can be completed in one day."
Is this a resonable price?
Do I need the extra stuff done?
Could my local mechanic handle this? (no doubt he would be cheaper)
Thanks for your feedback.
Does that price include the water pump also?
I drive an '01 LX w/77k miles and my accessory belts look almost new. Yours is 10 years old, so maybe it is time to replace. Since I haven't had to replace my timing belt yet, I don't have any pricing info. But, I'm sure many others with accords will respond. If not here, go to the accord problem thread and post there.
To me that seems a bit high for belts and a seal, but dealers are always trying to find the upper limit that their customers are willing to pay for every job.
some microscopic dirt is supposed to be suspended in oil and kept from plating out again by the detergents and additive package. but most of the crud is supposed to be trapped in the filter.
which has to mean that Honda is full of beans about filters being good for 20,000 miles. of course, they charge two to five times what they should for those oil filters, so maybe it's diplomacy
As for filter prices, hondrparts.com has them for $4.25 each. Word on the street is that Fram makes some of Honda's OEM filters now, so there may be better alternatives.
it's like putting on clean left socks and keeping the dirty right sock on day after day.
I don't buy any competing arguments, change the bloody filter, it doesn't cost any more than a lunch at Mac and Don's Supper Club.
Then I will gladly be the test case as long as I own my Jetta VR6. 12 months or 10,000 miles is the specified interval (yes, both oil and filter get changed, and I use synthetic even though it's not required). I know what you're thinking, better me undermaintain my car than you, right?
On the other side of the coin, you have a good point about the 5w20 oil. As it is used and breaks down, it will thin to some extent. I don't think you'd want it much thinner than 20. Many people have recommended switching the cars that recommend 5w20 to a 5w30 or 10w30 oil, as these oils tend to be more durable. It's something you might want to look into since you appear to be interested in taking the utmost care of your car.
Chevrolet recommends 7,500 miles for light duty. Every Chevy tech I know still recommends 3-4K intervals. Chevy may deny your engine claim if you can't prove you're changed the oil at least every 7,500 miles. It's simple - you guys make things too hard.