Periodic Maintenance

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  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    Particularly in this day, when engineers put anything out of reach with reckless abandon, spark plugs may have poor access for fingers. In such cases, the boot pullers can come in handy. I have a buddy who swears by them and won't touch a plug change without his special puller/plug boot grabber. I decided I needed one. I rarely use it, but what can I say... ? (:o[
  • swschradswschrad Member Posts: 2,171
    that require that little extra help. nice of BMW to have stashed their tool right where it would be needed. the rest of us have to fuss and cuss through all our mystery pockets in the tool bag before heading out to see if we can find something that will work on that blinkin' dratted last plug...
  • haspelbeinhaspelbein Member Posts: 227
    It's a DOHC engine, with the spark plugs very far recessed. The boot has a very long stem (approx. 4-5 inches) with the top covering the complete spark plug cavity. The top of the boot is very flat, and it's not easy to get any kind of leverage without that tool, unless you're willing to scratch or pierce the boot.

    On the plus side, since the whole spark plug cavity is protected, the plugs looked almost new when I pulled them at 30K miles. No oxidation on the contact to the spark plug wire, no grime in the threads, etc.
    I've never been faster changing plugs on an engine.
  • soccermum02soccermum02 Member Posts: 47
    We've had a 2002 auto CR-V for over 5 months. The maintainance card from Honda states the first oil change at 4 months or 8,000 km (5000 mi.). I took it into the closest dealer (not the one we bought it from). But when they learned it only had 4700 km (less than 3000 mi.), they said to wait, because the oil in it from the factory had some additive in it that should not be changed before 8000 km.

    Two days later we got a reminder card from the dealer that sold it to us. It recommended a 3 mo. or 5000 km first oil change.

    What gives? Thanks for any advice.
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Member Posts: 1,391
    HOnda uses a special break-in oil, used to help the engine components seat itself better. Honda Technical Center recommends to leave it in for the whole duration.
  • according2meaccording2me Member Posts: 236
    Has anyone gone to copper plugs for the 4cyl accord engine. I'm looking at using the NGK v-power coppers instead of the plats. The number appears to be the same minus the "P". Copper #ZFR5F-11
  • soccermum02soccermum02 Member Posts: 47
    Thanks for the info. Now I also know which dealer to take it to for maintainance and repairs.
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Member Posts: 1,391
    Changing to copper means you'll be changing the plugs more often. You'll be changing them every 30,000 miles.
  • according2meaccording2me Member Posts: 236
    Yeah, I know I'll have to replace them more often, but on my I-4 accord it's very easy to do.
    And a 4pack of coppers cost less than 1 plat.

    I've got 85K on the original plugs now and my engine still starts and runs fine, but my MPG has decreased. I thought I'd try some inexpensive NGKs this time.
  • gslevegsleve Member Posts: 183
    that for optimum efficency that if one does about 12k or 15k a year change them annually less stress on the ignition components allowing for longer life, as the electrode wears the bridge necessary for the gap continues to increase requiring perhaps more voltage and increased snap time to sustain that bridge thereby increasing the stress on the system.

    At a 1.79 a piece they are cheap insurance each year for your car to run optimally and only take less than perhaps 15minutes to replace, given you already pregap them and antisieze them.
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    I've never seen an instance where using an antiseize compound was really beneficial in the installation of spark plugs. I have changed hundreds of them in many, many engines-- motorcycle, car, truck, you name it. I am curious if anyone has any evidence that such use has been effective.
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Member Posts: 1,391
    It's just added insurance.
  • rayt2rayt2 Member Posts: 1,208
    I have found the need for anti-sieze on my 91 Honda CRX w/1.5 spark plugs. At 63k I puchased the car and first thing I did was change plugs. After almost snapping off all the plugs during removal I never put them back without anti-seize now. The mechanic who changed them last before I bought this car over torqued them IMO, so after the battle to get them out I vowed never again. I am not one to have to helicoil a spark plug hole, that has it's own inherent problems. Anti-seize is the answer for me.
    P.S. this car now has 164k and still driven 100 miles a day to/from work.

    Ray T.
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    Excellent point, and it fits right in with my thinking on the matter. If you know how tight spark plugs are supposed to be, and you do your own installations, chances are you will never need antisieze compounds. Some folks just have to "wrench hand" the little rascals until they are well beyond torque specs. It reminds me of attempting to change a tire on the side of the rode, when YOU weren't the last person to tighten the lug nuts. I have found it very useful to put a little spray can lube such as WD40 on lug bolts just before you put the nuts back on. It does aid in the next removal, and can extend the life of the lug bolts. If you've ever had to replace a lug bolt, you won't want to do it again. These are things that speak in favor of DIY maintenance!
  • spleckspleck Member Posts: 114
    I change my plugs at least annually and without using anti-seize compound, they've never been hard to remove. I think if you're going to sell the car, or you wait more than a year before changing the plugs, then the next person to change them would appreciate some anti-seize.

    One application of anti-seize may actually help with the next FEW plug changes. You may also not be able to change your plugs when you want to.
  • tblazer503tblazer503 Member Posts: 620
    it cost me about 50cents. not very expensive insurance. OTOH, I haven't had any claims for insurance in 4 years but it costs me a heckuvalot more.
  • cutehumorcutehumor Member Posts: 137
    I changed them out at 93k miles two years ago. I have 109k miles on my car now. I put antiseize compound just in case. I actually had a 87 corolla spark plug break off by a dealership tech. so it's cheap insurance.

    how many years would you say bosch platinums are good for? I know they say 60k miles, but it will take me about 6 years to reach that mark. what do you guys think? miles or interval? I feel like I'm in the oil change discussion. LOL
  • spleckspleck Member Posts: 114
    I would definitely use anti-seize if you're going to wait 6 years! If your plugs are easy to get to, I would change them yearly. Just like your yearly medical checkup, you'll be able to see if anything serious is going on by looking at the plugs.

    I think Bosch claims they're good for a few years or something though. They also claim that you don't need anti-seize because of the nickel-plated threads.

    Also, copper is 6 times more conductive than platinum. So if you replace your plugs often, copper will perform better, but it is not as resistant to corrosion/oxidation.
  • pluto5pluto5 Member Posts: 618
    IMO changing plugs is not analogous to a medical checkup which you only need every 3 yrs. unless you are a geezer.
  • spleckspleck Member Posts: 114
    Did you mean to post that information on webmd.com instead of edmunds?
  • swschradswschrad Member Posts: 2,171
    because of the need for blood analysis, so guess that makes me a true creaky old fart.

    therefore.. always rotate your surgical socks at 2000 calories, change your walker tips as the grass changes colors to prevent skids, and be sure to make your next appointment to get your arteries reamed before you leave the hospital :-D
  • tblazer503tblazer503 Member Posts: 620
    so will definitely need changing out much sooner than the plat plugs. I changed out a set of plat plugs on a friends Civic at 100k miles. You could fit a nickel between the electrode and tip, and still have lots of room left over. Dropped some plats in there for her... :rolleyes:
  • haspelbeinhaspelbein Member Posts: 227
    ...simply look at your plugs. If you see corrosion or electrode wear at XYZ miles, then it's probably time to change them. If they still look decent, you can probably go to longer intervals.

    If you, like Spleck, use them as a diagnostic device...well, I'd pull them whenever I feel like it.

    But it honestly depends very much on the vehicle. With my truck I essentially have to remove the intake manifold and most of the associated emissions control components to change the plugs. Those plugs will be changed at 60K intervals, just like the manual states. ;) (The last copper plugs showed definite signs of wear when I replaced them. Hope the plats hold up a little better.)

    I'm using anti-seize on my plugs. Don't know if it is necessary, but unless I hear something negative about it, I will continue to do so.
  • according2meaccording2me Member Posts: 236
    of an I-4. The plugs are very accessible. They're right on top of the engine so it's easy to change them. That's one of the reasons I'm going to use coppers, also cost.

    The last V6 I had was a bugger to get the back plug wires and plugs off. I definitely used plats when I had to replace them.

    Did you say you got 60k out of your copper plugs?
  • haspelbeinhaspelbein Member Posts: 227
    The truck is an I4 with 2 plugs per cylinder. (Unfortunately, not all I4s have them on top of the engine.)
    They are relatively easy to get to on the exhaust side, a pain the in the rear on the intake side.

    Yes, 60K on the factory copper plugs. Even though wear was clearly visible on the original plugs, I didn't notice any difference in drivability or fuel consumption with the new plats.

    I have another I4 and an I6. Both are very easy to change. I notice hardly any wear or corrosion when I (first) replaced the factory plugs at 30K. But since plugs are so cheap, I replace them anyhow.
  • tblazer503tblazer503 Member Posts: 620
    you must have an early to mid 90's nissan... =)
  • haspelbeinhaspelbein Member Posts: 227
    ....but *buzzer* you lose.

    We will pass the question on to the next candidate...;)
  • according2meaccording2me Member Posts: 236
    in their truck or ranger.
  • tbonertboner Member Posts: 402
    Ok, I didn't really guess, read his profile, LOL.

    TB
  • haspelbeinhaspelbein Member Posts: 227
    Yes, the '97 Ranger it is. Amazingly enough, the most reliable vehicle I've driven so far. I'm the original owner, and not even so much as a lightbulb burned out. It still has to see any kind of service department from the inside.

    According2me - Great job without reading the profile. ;)
  • tblazer503tblazer503 Member Posts: 620
    and I thought that Nissan was the only one with that weird design. Completely confused my dad when he looked at it... =)... didn't believe me until he saw it himself...
  • haspelbeinhaspelbein Member Posts: 227
    Must be some factor in the cylinder head/valve design that leads to a low-turbulence distribution of the fuel/air mix, therefore requiring more than one spark. I just don't know why in this engine.
  • according2meaccording2me Member Posts: 236
    that had that engine in his Ranger. His truck had over 475k on the odometer and he said he had no major engine repair done to it. But it was on it's 3rd trans.
  • swschradswschrad Member Posts: 2,171
    is that under the EEC-IV engine computer in my '90, the computer tried every minute per service information to turn the secondary bank of plugs (the easy ones to get to, naturally) OFF, and sniffed the tailpipe to see if they could stay off or had to come on for emissions.

    this resulted eventually in a national informational "recall", I think around 95 or 96, in which VP National Parts send a letter and a sticker for the engine compartment. the sticker reminded one and all there were TWO sets of plugs, and both had to be worked on.

    I think we can all guess the reason why... primary bank plugs rusted in, not doing any good at all, gaps worn to a quarter inch, while customers scream and stomp about how the truck won't keep running even though they keep changing the plugs. the VISIBLE plugs, the secondary bank, the one the EEC-IV keeps trying to turn off.

    so basically, the "other four" plugs are insurance to keep Ford legal with the EPA, is the way I read it.
  • 03accordman03accordman Member Posts: 671
    Honda says change oil at 10K miles, and the manual too says to make sure the factory oil is left in the engine long enough so that the engine settles down nicely. The dealer says change oil every 3.5k miles. Don't know what to do. Anyone shed some light on this?
  • leirexleirex Member Posts: 50
    I posted somewher about this. At a new owner clinic held by the dealer from which I bought my EX V6, the service director told NOT to change the factory filled oil until the first maintenance scheduled. He, however, recommended regular oil change at every 3750 miles even if Honda in manual recommends it at every 7500 miles. It is you call and decision, I guess.
  • zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    is that is the longest you can go and still maintain warranty coverage.

    Several years ago, Federal warranty law was called in to control manufacturer's recommendations on maintenance intervals. Manufacturers were required to change their owner's manuals to show the highest mileage where warranty coverage would not be effected. It was determined that to do otherwise was misleading to the consumer.

    Follow you service guy's recommendation and common sense, whichever is better.
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    Change your oil and filter every 3000 miles, and you won't have to worry at all about that aspect of your vehicle. There will be no controversy about waiting too long.
  • haspelbeinhaspelbein Member Posts: 227
    That's very interesting that the EECIV computer tried to turn off the secondary set of plugs. Very strange. Why wouldn't you fire both plugs? Was the engine not designed to start combustion process with both plugs all the time? And was it just a way to get by the new emissions standards ?
    Actually, the more I think about it...it's pretty sad.

    I'm still not quite sure how you could completely miss a set of plugs during service. I mean, the ignition wires are clearly visible. It's one of the first things I noticed about the engine.

    I don't know how my OBDII controlled engine behaves, but it would be very interesting to see if both plugs are firing all the time.
  • alcanalcan Member Posts: 2,550
    from Mitchell Repair Information Company:

    Dual Plug Inhibit (DPI) allows PCM processor to switch ignition system from single to dual plug operation. During cranking, vehicle is in single plug mode (only plugs on right side of engine fire). When engine starts, PCM sends a command to EI module to switch to dual plug operation.

    Ford's way of trying to get a few extra years out of a dated engine design while maintaining driveability and emission levels.
  • haspelbeinhaspelbein Member Posts: 227
    Ford's way of trying to get a few extra years out of a dated engine design while maintaining driveability and emission levels.

    That's what I thought, I'm driving a dinosaur.

    Just curious, what is the advantage of using only one plug during cranking ? Less of an electrical load ?
  • swschradswschrad Member Posts: 2,171
    except that doesn't apply, either. you don't get better life out of the secondary ignition bank, except perhaps the coil pack and the wires... the plugs take just as much of a hit just sitting there and getting exploded on. I think it was just C Y A for marginal emissions on the edge of the plugs' life.

    4S plug was sort of interesting to remove and replace, but I seem to remember that 3P was even stinkier... 4P was cramped but it was reachable. not as bad as the 302 boss mustang, where you had to hoist the engine to replace plugs (they eventually approved punching a hole in the fender skirt and supplied a hole plug kit), but required a little more finesse than I was surely used to.
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Member Posts: 1,391
    Honda oil changes: for the new HOndas...keep the break-in oil for at least 7500 miles, then if you want, 3000 mile oil changes.

    dual plugs per cylinder: I believe some Mercedes motors still use this setup. What it allows is a more complete burn, as the second plug fires afterwards to burn whatever hasn't. If you get a MSD (or equivalent) ignition system, it does the same thing on one spark plug (per cylinder), Multiple Spark Discharge.
  • mikek37mikek37 Member Posts: 411
    The factory manua states that the first oil change should be done at 3.750 miles. But then again the manual stated that you can change the oil every 10,000? Ill stick with the first change being around 3,750 and 3000 miles following.
  • haspelbeinhaspelbein Member Posts: 227
    Why would you need a second plug for a second spark ? Couldn't you fire the same plug twice ?

    I've otherwise seen two plugs in very hi-flow injected engines, where the fuel distribution inside the cylinder varies too much to ensure proper ignition by one plug in a single location.

    But normally this is not the case, as highly turbulent injection should be far more fuel efficient and allows for more homogenous fuel distribution.

    Which MB models use two plugs ? Just curious. (Mine only has one per cylinder. Maybe I was cheated ? ;) )
  • zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    spark concept at lower rpms.
  • tbonertboner Member Posts: 402
    But if you can't change the primary plugs, was ther enough plug wire to swap the wires, after of course changing the secondary plugs?

    TB
  • haspelbeinhaspelbein Member Posts: 227
    Actually, each plug has it's own wire and connector on the ignition module. You can replace them one at a time, there is really no dependency.(At least on my '97 Ranger.) I actually replaced the secondary plugs and wires first, drove around for a month with that combination, and finally changed primary plugs and wires once I had the time to remove the intake manifold.
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Member Posts: 1,391
    I've heard MB uses the dual plugs...don't know which ones though
This discussion has been closed.

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