jerry, it's well that you -did- go to the expense of genuine Honda ATF. Dexron-III is great ATF, and Hondas -will- run on it. But over a thousand miles or so, you'd have become aware of progressively harsher shifting. Virtually all asian imports use a "grabbier" facing material on the clutch plates that requires an ATF formulated with more highly friction modified additives than G.M. automatic transmissions need. Dexron-III has a lesser friction modifier additive, and as the impregnated additive from the original Honda fluid slowly leeched out of the fibrous clutch facing material, it would've resulted in the harsher shifting I mentioned above. I had a 96 Accord that I used Dexron-III in, but, in combination with a 10 oz. bottle of Lubegard HFM to supply the extra friction modifiers. It worked well, but, at $17.00 for the Lubegard HFM, I'm not sure I really saved any money. Going with the Honda ATF means you don't have to worry about incompatibility issues. Even if you change fluid every 15,000 miles (recommended by virtually all transmission rebuilders by the way), it's still a relatively cheap maintenance item - espcially if you plan to keep the car over the long term. Since you mentioned the old fluid was filthy, I would suggest one more drain and refill now that you have a few miles on the new fluid. The new fluid has been dissolving pre-existing varnish deposits, and it would be a good idea to get that gunk out while it's still in solution. Over time, it'll undoubtedly start re-depositing, negating all the work you went to in the first place.
worst case scenario - engine failure under warranty, service records produced, engine oil sampled and analyzed, claim denied due to non-use of prescribed lubricant.
I'm not saying it's going to happen, but it certainly could. And the manufacturer has the right to examine all facets of the claim since they are the guarntor of the warranty.
I recently sallied forth and procured a supply of Valvoline 5W-20, suspecting that they could prescribe that weight and make one wish they had believed it! I figure I'll run the thin and drizzley until the warranty runs out, and then reconsider the decision. Perhaps by then I'll have "adjusted" to the new weight. And if not, I'll return to 5W-30. Done deal.
Maybe an old subject but if the manufacturer's can get .1 of an extra mpg at the cost of increased wear on YOUR engine-IMHO they would do it in a NY minute. Still have yet to hear a logical reason why can't use 5W30-course like all things there may well be a very good reason.
My Honda CRV took a rock in the windshield and its spreading rapidly. I respect your opinions on this board so I am asking a question. Did not contact insurance co. yet but I know they will say to go to local glass guy. My question is: should I request Honda o.e.m. or go with what they have? What is your experience with glass installers? Believe it or not I am going on seventy been driving since I was sixteen and this is my first busted windshield.
time to drive with no glass problems - good on ya!
I would contact your insurance company and have them set you up with a glass replacement. By all means, have them use Honda glass, if it's available - most aftermarket glass is "pretty good", but some cheaper stuff will have distortions and will be noticeable to an appraiser (for future trade value).
No you don't have to use it-stuff is really expensive-think it is about $3 a quart-u can buy some really cheap merkon III and save maybe $1 per quart. Course there is a good chance you will need a new tranny in about 5K miles for $3-5K. Also the new 5 speed Honda trannies are way way complex and doubt if there are but a handfull of people even able to begin to work on them.
You are taking a big chance if you use synthetic atf instead of honda atf-the clutches in the honda tranny require specific lubricity levels and those are provided by the honda atf. 3 quarts at $3 each every 30K miles-that is not big money-but a new tranny is big bucks.
The more I read and hear, the less respect I have for Honda cars. I don't think I could ever buy one, knowing that I would feel like a fool for having done so; putting myself in a position of using goods and supplies from the Honda "company store," or seriously risking a disaster from using non Honda products! The situation is ridiculous, if true. Competition makes prices come down while exclusivity makes them go up. I'll close, feeling contempt for the judge (so to speak!). (:o]
My brothers 90 Honda accord has ams atf since it's existence has 117k on it not one tranny problem or intimation of one, I thought if the manufacturer provides an alternative in addition to their on proprietary fluid that use of the alternative will in no way be in violation of warranty requirements because they are the one's stipulating the alternative for use.
One would reason that through R&D ample testing of the alternative was completed and found to be suitable for use, prior to recommending it within their manuals, if however they stipulate you have to use only their product to maintain the warranty does'nt this fall within some infraction of the Manguson act
Hi all, I just spent $100 on the 7500 mile maint & just to day I spent $200 on the 15000 mile maintenance. Are they necessary to be done, or can I do without them (i.e. just do regular oil change) ? For example, when the car reaches 30k, the maintenance done will cost $ 400! I just think that the dealer may be putting a lot of $$$ in his/her pocket...am I wrong ?? please help because I don't feel like spending all this money on a leased car!
I have the same dilema also. Just had my accord 03 serviced for its 7500 mile check. The next big one is $400 bucks. Seems the majority of work doen is just looking over certain aspects of the car.
I have had a least 6 replaced over the years on varioys cars. Never noticed a problem wiht any aftermarket window Many aftrmarkets will waive the deductible on your window whereas the dealer never will.
I totally agree with you Mike, this is too much cach to spend !! Does this required manitenance happens only with Honda ? I mean this required spending. Is it the same story with all the other brands ?
I had an Alero last year and I got by fine just by doing regular oil changes....any comments ?!
As you know, some of the "maintenance" items are sort of over worked by the manufacturers-- they ask you to perform the tasks perhaps more frequently than is absolutely prudent. What I really dislike is being put in a position of needing to use proprietary products from the OEM to complete the maintenance and achieve satisfactory results.
Thanks for your imput on the windshield, found out that there is no oem glass replacements but they have something called "greenshieldglass" which is the tint like the oem thats on the CRV. Still checking as to who will get this tinted windshield for me. Also in New Jersey its very difficult getting a break on the deductable.
I going to need rotors replaced or smoothed out (not sure if that the correct terminology) since they have recently begun to vibrate/pulse. Any idea of what sort of cost i am looking at to have a garage replace the rotors or grind them down? ALso, do accords require honda specific antifreeze/coolent? I have a 92 accord LX auto 145K
You're almost sure to have warped rotors that need "turning." It's really a shaving of the rotor surface removing the high spots. Replacement is the only solution if there won't be enough disk thickness left after shaving. I've had mine satisfactorily done by a Meineke shop for $90 covering the front disk pads, turning, labor and a lifetime warranty.
"Torque" your lugnuts after the service to lessen future warpage. It's short for equal tightening of the lugnuts with a torque wrench so warpage from brake-heat dissipation is minimized.
As to coolant type, sorry don't have info. Maybe someone on this forum can reply, or do a websearch.
New rotors are probably $50-$100 each and unless warped or worn too much they should not need replacement. To machine them smooth is relatively easy and cost is minimal.
As to Honda coolant, ther are only two types of coolant made to my knowledge, the Orange Dexcool or equivalent and the green ethelene glycon still used by most of the world. Honda coolant if a different color is probably compatibile with one of the two types!
thanks for the info..and same to you armtdm... what is the proper tourque for the lug nuts. I have heard this before and will take it as good advise. Thanks
Glad to help. The torque # is usually in the owner's manual. If you don't have it, and no one else on this forum can offer the info, try this Honda tech-head site: http://www.voy.com/8971/
Post your question and the good guys at that site (topics cover predominantly early 90s Hondas) will respond within a day or 2.
Hand warped rotors on an 80 accord-quickly learned to never ever let anyone with a impact wrench close to wheels with disc brakes-even if they use torque sticks. This is interesting-had badly warped rotors-way bad shaking when on brakes - then retorqued wheels to 80 foot pounds-really improved the problem-did not have to have the rotors turned.
Some tire places automatically torque to 100 fp or more regardless of what you tell them-when ever I have to let them mount tires-take my click type torque wrench and when it comes time to torque them down-I hand them the wrench. Replacing rotors on older Honda's is an expensive proposition-the rotor is pressed into the bearing assembly-you usually can not remove the rotor without replacing the bearing.
Well, I go 30,000 and use synthetic. I service 5 cars 4 use ATF and never had a tanny problem yet but the oldest is only 154,000. Only dropped tha pan and replaced the filter twice on that one and filter was fine, magnet had some debris but basically clean. Newer cars say 60,000 severe and 100,000 normal, my Buick does anyway, I did a drain and fill at 30,000 anyway but of course a drain and fill only gets about half the fluid out. However, this has worked for me over the years. In the case of ATF more changes are better the question is when are the changes overkill? If you have a drain plug the drain and fills are really easy and you can do them more often
for tranny fluid changes. if you are burning up the fluid, changing it when you change oil is NOT the answer, finding out and fixing the overstress is.
unless there is contamination, hard use aka towing, or overheating, the 30,000 change is wasteful. but if you have to do it, and I always have, I say do the filter at the same time and be sure the bigger loose chunks of the transmission are taken out of circulation. also wipe down the metal whiskers on the magnets or replace them in the pan.
joe average or jane dull doing the mall thing and poking along in the traffic jam to and from work can wait to 60,000 or later, monitoring the state of the fluid off the dipstick for changes.
Another benefit of the 3K oil and filter interval is that every other oil change you should also rotate the tires. It helps me to keep up on several cars and trucks, with less chance of "forgetting." Also, when shopping for replacement rotors, Bendix is hard to beat for the buck at CSK auto parts stores.
Well, the other arguement against rotation is that if you don't do it then you only replace two tires at a time in lieu of 4. Also, whether you rotate every 5000 or 10,000 also does not make a difference as you still get the same wear on a tire.
You nailed it, zueslewis. Another aspect is the nature of some tire warranties. They insist that you rotate the tires at least every 6K, if you expect to invoke the mileage guarantee, and perhaps even the "driveability" guarantee.
I had my breaks looked at and yes there were warped. Mechanic mentioned i still had some life on the pads and figured i could do new rotors (said they were thin) and pads later on in the year at the same time. Unfortunaly he said my 92 accord has the type of rotors where they are part of the hub which will cost more. I was wondering if the pulsing will have any effect on the suspension parts up front if i wait to have it done. And on another note, the place in which i bought my tires recently noted that my "boots" were cracked and water came out of one of them and said i will need a new axle. Is this true? any help is appreciated.
Yes, to replace front rotors on Honda you have to remove the hub, so you basically looking in new bearing(puller,BFH,propane torch to remove the hub),new rotors and 2-3 hours of labor. By doing axle at same time(if you have water in CV joint - it is on way out) you can save some hours of labor cost.
Also, whether you rotate every 5000 or 10,000 also does not make a difference as you still get the same wear on a tire"
It makes a HUGE difference, especially on a front drive car.
Way off base. Over 50,000 miles I will have rotated my tires 5 times but you will have rotated them 10 times. We both get the same mileage I GUARANTEE it! I have simply gone 5000 more miles before rotating but it is compensated for by going 5000 more in each location. It makes no difference believe me. In fact, you could go 12,500 and only rotate 4 times. The tires on each axle get the same amount of miles just on each one longer then yours.
more than 50% of my driving is highway usually, I never bother to rotate my tires more frequently than every 15K, and I always get 50K out of each set, even on FWD cars.
If you mostly drive around town, the steering tires tend to get pretty rounded off and chewed up relatively quickly, which makes them noisy, so in this case it is better to rotate them more frequently. I have a friend in this situation - he never rotates his tires at all, but just replaces them one pair at a time, and he loses miles on each set that he would have had if he rotated them.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
You know, I've raced cars for 23 years. I was a regional manager for a huge tire/wheel company (Super Shops, Inc (HP parts, tires and wheels)) and I lost count of all the classes and seminars I've attended from BFG, Michelin, Dunlop and Yokohama. Additionally, I've dealt with literally thousands of tire customers through various stages of their tire ownership experiences. You might say I know more than the average guy about how tires work and wear.
On a front drive car especially, the front tires take a beating with lateral loads and torque application that usually causes wear patterns on the outside of the tread. Once you let a tire go for 10-12K and that pattern starts, there's no reversing it and it gets worse fast. The only thing you can do is run the tires on the front position for shorter intervals, rotating them frequently, so they spend time on the rear where they wear much more evenly.
I could really care less if armtdm or anyone else wants to put on a brand new set of tires and do burnouts 'til the cord shows - it's not my money.
The fact that someone actually ARGUES such a commonly known fact with goofy logic, made-up mathematical equations, and absolutely no idea of what he's talking about bugs me. The reason it bugs me is if someone jumped on Edmunds looking for tire info and read a few of those posts, they'd think it was OK to use such a foolish maintenance concept.
I feel a responsibility towards people who just hop into these discussions looking for information and aren't "in the know". It's our responsibility NOT to mislead them with incorrect info.
You have the knowledge and experience (as you have so eloquently noted) and what you say is probably correct for most drivers, no argument.
However, as someone else pointed out they rotate every 15,000 and a lot depends on the the type of driving and how one does drive. In addition, as you know, tires have chagned dramatically over your 23 years of experience and I know that you are factoring that into your comments.
So, as with most things in auto maintenance, there is no absolute, it is whatever floats your boat and makes you feel good with that warm and fuzzy feeling that comes with the belief that your car is well maintained. That is 5000 mile rotations for many people for others 7500 to 15,000. Just depends on the car, driving habits, climate, road conditions, and who does your maintenance.
Oh, and tire pressure which no one has mentioned. A tire inflated to near the max PSI will wear longer then one inflated to 26 PSI on a tire with a max of 35 psi. You won't get the ride but a pressure of 30-32 PSI will yield more mileage (especially on the front of a FWD car) then a tire at 26 PSI.
I don't think you can make such a blanket statement - it depends on the car's suspension set-up, the weight distribution, other things. This is WHY each car has its own manufacturer recommendation for tire inflation, regardless of what the max allowable pressure is for the tire.
Don't forget that if you overinflate the tire, you will end up with an uneven wear "line" down the middle of the tread.
AFAIK, car manufacturers pretty much unanimously recommend tire rotation at 7500 miles, and there is no doubt this will improve tire wear a lot, and help you get max mileage from each set. I merely meant to say that being lazy about it will not necessarily spell disaster, or even the loss of a significant portion of the potential treadwear of your tires, depending on your driving patterns.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
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Comments
Honda says that's the stuff to use, and if you don't, you risk losing warranty coverage. And yes, they can do that.
I'm not saying it's going to happen, but it certainly could. And the manufacturer has the right to examine all facets of the claim since they are the guarntor of the warranty.
I would contact your insurance company and have them set you up with a glass replacement. By all means, have them use Honda glass, if it's available - most aftermarket glass is "pretty good", but some cheaper stuff will have distortions and will be noticeable to an appraiser (for future trade value).
You are taking a big chance if you use synthetic atf instead of honda atf-the clutches in the honda tranny require specific lubricity levels and those are provided by the honda atf. 3 quarts at $3 each every 30K miles-that is not big money-but a new tranny is big bucks.
One would reason that through R&D ample testing of the alternative was completed and found to be suitable for use, prior to recommending it within their manuals, if however they stipulate you have to use only their product to maintain the warranty does'nt this fall within some infraction of the Manguson act
I just spent $100 on the 7500 mile maint & just to day I spent $200 on the 15000 mile maintenance.
Are they necessary to be done, or can I do without them (i.e. just do regular oil change) ?
For example, when the car reaches 30k, the maintenance done will cost $ 400!
I just think that the dealer may be putting a lot of $$$ in his/her pocket...am I wrong ?? please help because I don't feel like spending all this money on a leased car!
any comments are highly appreciated...
Same glass IMO.
I had an Alero last year and I got by fine just by doing regular oil changes....any comments ?!
"Torque" your lugnuts after the service to lessen future warpage. It's short for equal tightening of the lugnuts with a torque wrench so warpage from brake-heat dissipation is minimized.
As to coolant type, sorry don't have info. Maybe someone on this forum can reply, or do a websearch.
As to Honda coolant, ther are only two types of coolant made to my knowledge, the Orange Dexcool or equivalent and the green ethelene glycon still used by most of the world. Honda coolant if a different color is probably compatibile with one of the two types!
Post your question and the good guys at that site (topics cover predominantly early 90s Hondas) will respond within a day or 2.
Some tire places automatically torque to 100 fp or more regardless of what you tell them-when ever I have to let them mount tires-take my click type torque wrench and when it comes time to torque them down-I hand them the wrench. Replacing rotors on older Honda's is an expensive proposition-the rotor is pressed into the bearing assembly-you usually can not remove the rotor without replacing the bearing.
unless there is contamination, hard use aka towing, or overheating, the 30,000 change is wasteful. but if you have to do it, and I always have, I say do the filter at the same time and be sure the bigger loose chunks of the transmission are taken out of circulation. also wipe down the metal whiskers on the magnets or replace them in the pan.
joe average or jane dull doing the mall thing and poking along in the traffic jam to and from work can wait to 60,000 or later, monitoring the state of the fluid off the dipstick for changes.
"Also, whether you rotate every 5000 or 10,000 also does not make a difference as you still get the same wear on a tire"
It makes a HUGE difference, especially on a front drive car.
remove the hub, so you basically looking in new bearing(puller,BFH,propane torch to remove the hub),new rotors and 2-3 hours of labor. By doing axle at same time(if you have water in CV joint -
it is on way out) you can save some hours of labor cost.
It makes a HUGE difference, especially on a front drive car.
Way off base.
Over 50,000 miles I will have rotated my tires 5 times but you will have rotated them 10 times. We both get the same mileage I GUARANTEE it! I have simply gone 5000 more miles before rotating but it is compensated for by going 5000 more in each location. It makes no difference believe me. In fact, you could go 12,500 and only rotate 4 times. The tires on each axle get the same amount of miles just on each one longer then yours.
If you mostly drive around town, the steering tires tend to get pretty rounded off and chewed up relatively quickly, which makes them noisy, so in this case it is better to rotate them more frequently. I have a friend in this situation - he never rotates his tires at all, but just replaces them one pair at a time, and he loses miles on each set that he would have had if he rotated them.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
You know, I've raced cars for 23 years. I was a regional manager for a huge tire/wheel company (Super Shops, Inc (HP parts, tires and wheels)) and I lost count of all the classes and seminars I've attended from BFG, Michelin, Dunlop and Yokohama. Additionally, I've dealt with literally thousands of tire customers through various stages of their tire ownership experiences. You might say I know more than the average guy about how tires work and wear.
On a front drive car especially, the front tires take a beating with lateral loads and torque application that usually causes wear patterns on the outside of the tread. Once you let a tire go for 10-12K and that pattern starts, there's no reversing it and it gets worse fast. The only thing you can do is run the tires on the front position for shorter intervals, rotating them frequently, so they spend time on the rear where they wear much more evenly.
I could really care less if armtdm or anyone else wants to put on a brand new set of tires and do burnouts 'til the cord shows - it's not my money.
The fact that someone actually ARGUES such a commonly known fact with goofy logic, made-up mathematical equations, and absolutely no idea of what he's talking about bugs me. The reason it bugs me is if someone jumped on Edmunds looking for tire info and read a few of those posts, they'd think it was OK to use such a foolish maintenance concept.
I feel a responsibility towards people who just hop into these discussions looking for information and aren't "in the know". It's our responsibility NOT to mislead them with incorrect info.
However, as someone else pointed out they rotate every 15,000 and a lot depends on the the type of driving and how one does drive. In addition, as you know, tires have chagned dramatically over your 23 years of experience and I know that you are factoring that into your comments.
So, as with most things in auto maintenance, there is no absolute, it is whatever floats your boat and makes you feel good with that warm and fuzzy feeling that comes with the belief that your car is well maintained. That is 5000 mile rotations for many people for others 7500 to 15,000. Just depends on the car, driving habits, climate, road conditions, and who does your maintenance.
Oh, and tire pressure which no one has mentioned. A tire inflated to near the max PSI will wear longer then one inflated to 26 PSI on a tire with a max of 35 psi. You won't get the ride but a pressure of 30-32 PSI will yield more mileage (especially on the front of a FWD car) then a tire at 26 PSI.
Do you concur with that statement????
Don't forget that if you overinflate the tire, you will end up with an uneven wear "line" down the middle of the tread.
AFAIK, car manufacturers pretty much unanimously recommend tire rotation at 7500 miles, and there is no doubt this will improve tire wear a lot, and help you get max mileage from each set. I merely meant to say that being lazy about it will not necessarily spell disaster, or even the loss of a significant portion of the potential treadwear of your tires, depending on your driving patterns.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)