Periodic Maintenance

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Comments

  • zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    that's another given that doesn't need to argued about.
  • atlantabennyatlantabenny Member Posts: 735
    Personal experience strongly supports Zueslewis' statement that shorter rotation intervals are critically important.

    Under a then-10k interval, my 99 Accord's front tires showed good tread until one day, with the wheel turned at an angle, I noticed the inner tread to be wearing thinner.

    Wanting to save the tires, I proceeded to rotate but then noticed bulges on the inner sidewall - not otherwise visible or noticeable except when the tires were removed, handled and inspected.

    Those bulges could have led to a catastrophic outcome on the interstate if I had rotated beyond 10k. And to think the car had not been potholed or curbed on those premium brand tires.

    For this reason alone, moral responsibility dictates at the least a 5-7.5k rotation interval and REJECTION of any assertion that longer intervals make equal sense !!!

    Technical considerations such as better wear pattern and the associated handling and ride characteristics are also valid per my personal experience but are now really secondary to the safety aspect.

    I hope other forum readers will take note for their safety !
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    Take the recommendation of the tire manufacturer, and be certain you "obey" the rotation mandates that will keep your road hazard and mileage warranty in effect. If your buying tires from a decent dealer, the road haz warranty is worth its weight in gold.
  • bburton3bburton3 Member Posts: 185
    Got lazy on an 80 accord-didn't rotate for a long time-rear tires got really cupped-thought it was a bearing going-replaced a bearing and then looked the tire in the shadows and saw the cupping. Seems to be worst on front wheel drive cars for some reason-sometimes hear other cars going down the road wah wah wah-really badly cupped.

    Now have 80K on a set of Michelin X-One's and no cupping and no out of balance-rotate at 10-15K intervals. Probably get another 15K or so out of these before replacing.

    IMHO rotating is kinda like flossing your teeth-don't have to but there are downside issues/consequences.
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    It is generally held that the cupping is created on the rear tires of FWD cars as a result of suspension harmonics that typically just can't be defeated. I guess keeping "perfect condition" shocks or struts on the rear is about the only thing that helps. Aaaaaaaah! EXCEPT for frequent rotation, to allow the rear tires to be "straightened out" by doing time on the front. If you wait too long, the cupping gets to a point that rotation can't even out the tread any more. As in flossing, you can cure gingivitis, but if you wait too long and lose some supporting bone, it cannot be regenerated.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    those dental hygiene analogies are deep and scary!

    yeah, the back end of a FWD car will always ruin the tires back there unless you replace the rear struts with every oil change... :-P

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • swschradswschrad Member Posts: 2,171
    and that's for SUVs as well as FWD.

    I was at my dentist's today, and he said nothing about rotating teeth. I was not going to ask >:-D
  • zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    to change the air in your tires, too - stale air is the leading cause of tire wear. Ask yourself - how old is the air in YOUR tires? Have you ever smelled the air coming out of a tire?? You wonder why it smells that way??

    Funny, but sad story.

    When I was with Super Shops, I was training two new tire guys in our Beaverton, OR store. The bay doors were open and this sweet old lady in a white '92-93 Buick Century rolled up and asked if we rotated tires and how much it cost. I explained that we could do it right now, it would cost $19.95, including balancing and it would only take a bit of time. She agreed and said "Oh, I forgot - make sure you "fluff" them, too".

    I asked her what she meant by "fluffing" her tires and she looked at me like a had three heads and asked me how long I'd been in the tire business. She explained that she had just moved up from Southern California. I made an excuse that "Maybe it's the difference in regional dialect" and said "Ma'am, can you explain what the guys did?".

    She went to explain that one time in about 1982, when she was getting new tires, she noticed the white powder inside. She asked about it, and her tire shop guy (THAT SHE KEPT FOR 20 YEARS) told her it was "sealing powder" and she had to have her tires fluffed at every rotation. I asked what he charged her. She said it was $29.99 for the rotation and balance and an extra $20 for "fluffing", but because there was an accounting difference for the "fluffing", she had to pay cash.

    I was silent. We went ahead and rotated her tires and "fluffed" them with the baby powder we used to mount slicks with.

    I then took her into the office and explained what had happened. She had been paying this guy $20 every 5,000 miles for nearly 20 years. She didn't believe me, but what was I to do? I couldn't take her money. I gave her the rotation for free. I thought of my parents, then in their late 70s, and how badly I'd beat someone if they scammed my folks like that.
  • bburton3bburton3 Member Posts: 185
    Great story-ain't it a wonder how creative crooks can be-at least this "fluffing" probably did not harm the tire. A doc friend got suspicious about his huge bills for his MB maintenance. They charged the guy for new belts, aiming the headlights and the whole spiel. Well doc puts some clear fingernail polish on the heads of the phillips screws used to adjust the headlights, puts his name on the drive belts and did something to the oil filter holder. Anyway he goes to pick up his MB-looks at the bill and then take Heinz und Fritz for a little inspection-he never went back-started going to my VW guys who were not crooks.

    Course there are crooks in every kind of business out there-just get at least 3 opinions before you let anybody cut on your body.
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Member Posts: 1,391
    Michelin & BFGoodrich
    http://michelinman.com/care/tire_saving_tips/index.html

    Goodyear
    http://www.goodyeartires.com/faqs/Rotation.html

    Bridgestone/Firestone
    http://www.tiresafety.com/

    Those are what I consider to be the major brands here.

    VW recommends 10k rotations to coincide with 10k oil changes. 1.8T & VR6 & V6 get 5,000 mile oil changes, but 10k tire rotations.
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    Looks like 2/3 tire manufacturers say within the 5000-8000 mile range, one provides no mileage (just rotate) and VW at 10,000 (5000 us at the low end of all ranges) . Other then rotation, which no one seems to disagree with, the mileage to do it at varies based upon tire and car manufacturer and individual driving experience and driving habits/conditions.
    So, for 99% of the public, rotate your tires and to play it safe and sleep at night go with the guide that came with your car. For the 1% base it on what works for you.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,691
    good to read. I had thought the rear wheels and the changing camber over bumps and with loads in the trunk caused different wear on the rears. On long mileage tires, the 8000 might be early enough to prevent patterns being worn into the tread, on faster-wearing tires, I'd go down in miles to 6000.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    and I can assure they DO NOT warranty the tires that come on their cars - the tire manufacturer does.

    What do they care when you rotate?
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    But tire warranties are not worth the paper they are printed on, primarily the ones on mileage. they simply prorate (based upon thread depth or time of service) the price against the highest MSRP they can find when you can go across the street and buy that same tire for less even after the prorated price. Hazard warranties are almost impossible to find today, some outlets offer them but manufacturers, tough to find.

    Agree, no car manufactrurer warrants tires or batteries and batteries have very similar waranties but at least for a year or so are 100% replacement guaranteed regardless of usage. Besides, what good is a Firestone warranty (if you are an SUV owner) if you have to get another Firestone?

    Shall we talk about how often to replace struts and shocks?
  • zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    on a Monroe package - yeah, right!

    That's happening.
  • swschradswschrad Member Posts: 2,171
    then I guess you better start saving your pennies up now!

    maybe they would like to get real and not get laughed at. anybody at federal-mogul reading us??
  • jjpcatjjpcat Member Posts: 124
    I'm new to this board. I am wondering what problems I would get if I don't rotate tires. What's that cupping problem? How to spot it?

    I have owned 8 FWD cars. In the past, I changed cars so often that most of them were sold before I had to change tires. But I intent to keep my current car (2k1 Civic) for a longer time. I check tires at least once per month and I haven't noticed any uneven wear left and right. There isn't any irregular wear either. I estimate the tires would last for 60-70k miles and thus I rotated front and rear at 34k miles (the first rotation and, hopefully, the last rotation for this set of tires also). By doing so, I am hoping all 4 tires will come to the end of their life at the same time.

    So, my question is, if I don't see any unusual wear, why do I need to rotate tires at the recommended interval?
  • zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    it's pretty much impossible to spot irregular wear on a daily or weekly basis - by the time you notice a pattern of cupping or edge wear, it's too late.
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    Regular rotation simply helps you get longer mileage out of a set of tires. If that is negative in some circumstance, you might want to disregard it. A case in point: I had a set of Uniroyal tires on a Geo Prizm that could not be successfully rotated. I think I had let them sit too long without rotating, and the result was they "took a set" and I had to leave them there. That shortened the service life of the entire set of tires.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,691
    I kept original position for tires on a new 93 LeSabre for 12K since they were so smooth. Then when I rotated them, they never smoothed out. One of the service manuals I have from GM (Helm) says a lower number for first rotation - maybe it was 6K then 7.5K for rotations ever after. I won't make that mistake again; I'll rotate early on 03 like at 5K and then regularly thereafter.

    I've heard others suggest that new tires should not be in same position on car too long from another technician.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Member Posts: 1,391
    someone mentioned that the all auto manufacturers basically agree on the 6,000 to 8,000 mile rotation interval, which I showed that there are exceptions, VW for instance.

    Although the auto manufacturers are not tire manufacturers, they still know the suspension better and have previously done testing to see what intervals are suitable for the car.
  • zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    OEM tires are still junk, though, and I think the first thing most people should do is replace thier tires after buying a new car - as in my case with DCC and Goodyear, they aren't going to do anything for you, anyway, warranty-wise.
  • clint98v6atclint98v6at Member Posts: 54
    The "good" indicator on the battery of my 98 Accord has disappeared. It still cranks ok but it's probably best to replace, since it's 5 years old. Are there any benefits to the factory battery compared to one from an auto parts store?

    I have a Yuasa battery in my Honda motorcycle that is still going strong after 7 years. Not sure if they make auto batteries. Any battery replacement suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!
  • bburton3bburton3 Member Posts: 185
    There are only a few places that actually manufacture batteries in the US-maybe 3 r 4. Best deals I have seen are in Sam's Club. Buy the most cca's you can find. Just replaced my 97 accord battery with one from sam's-was still green but was starting to have starter drag.

    When you replace the thing-get some axel or similiar heavy grease and cover the terminals and the connectors. Scrape any mung off the connector. Best to replace the battery when u have a choice-if u have to do it on the road-you will be overcharged for the cheapest POS around.
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    Some years ago, Yuasa combined with Exide in Pennsylvania. They manufacture motorcycle and car batteries, as I'm sure you know. My experience is that Yuasa motorcycle batteries are among the best-- but I have had a bad one. I personally respect Exide as well.
  • swschradswschrad Member Posts: 2,171
    exide is the sole name behind the car, tractor, truck battery lines, as they have for a hundred years. yuasa uses exide as a marketing arm for their small-service wet cells under that agreement they have.

    if you are looking for gel-cell batteries or nicads, etc, then you as a battery store deal directly with yuasa as I understand it.
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Member Posts: 1,391
    OEM tires can be junk, it depends on which brand of tire it came with OEM.

    From my experience, OEM Goodyear tires are pure junk.

    OEM Michelins such as the MXV4 Energy Plus are excellent tires for OEM.

    Say it looks like you're from Lansdale, PA....I mean Merck, PA
  • clint98v6atclint98v6at Member Posts: 54
    Thanks for the battery input. I'll see what I can find locally. I'm sure Honda charges more than the auto parts stores.
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    Personally I love AC Delcos, one of the few truly maintenance free ones out there (cannot even get to the cells.) But they do not make one for all applications. After that i just go to Advance Auto or Auto Zone (good warranties) and get the largest CCA over the OEM that I can find that still fits in the holder.
  • swschradswschrad Member Posts: 2,171
    no substitute for maximum CCA on a winter day.
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    ...but I prefer being stranded in parking lots or on mountain trails with a dead battery that I knew was on its way out. It's more fun to do it the hard way, and really suffer. Well, my past performance would indicate I feel this way. I am contemplating turning over a new leaf, and buying batteries just ahead of trouble, instead of grasping for whatever brand is available after walking a few miles... Ha! (:o]
  • zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    You know, I did notice a couple of Merck buildings nearby. I actually live on Sumneytown Pike where most of the main entrances to all those facilities are.

    I wish more manufacturers used Michelins, especially the MXV4. That is one tire I make an exception for in my rantings. Goodyear RS-As on the PT Cruiser GT - they suck. 6 attempts at balancing, including 2 load-force operations (removing tires from wheels, etc), and I still have a wobble at 7,000 miles.

    Then again, what does it matter? It's in the shop for 3 weeks to get a new PCM - it's the 6th time for that problem (check engine light, stalling, hesitation) and was towed 3 times.

    Can you say lemon law?
  • bburton3bburton3 Member Posts: 185
    What a pita they are-will have to admit the MXV4's I had stayed in balance for their entire 73K life-but wet, snow/ice traction was not acceptable however. The X-One's I now have are superb now even with 81K on them and another 15K of tread left.

    Yeah I would big time look into the lemon law requirements-maybe you could get a real deal on a DC product that was a little more reliable-wow that would drive me out of my little noggin. Good luck.
  • zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    "Yeah I would big time look into the lemon law requirements"

    Click on my profile - it's handled, believe me.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    How often do most people replace their struts? I have seen many people post that 50K is the max that any strut can go, but it is EXPENSIVE to replace a set of four on many cars. My old Subaru OBS had struts all around, and would have cost more than $1000 to do all 4, and I never did.

    I generally figure 40-50K from each set of tires, and strut replacement every two sets of tires is a good plan, but that might mean the original struts are on the car to 100K.

    Just wondering what other people think...

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    I just had my Camry in to look at and the front end people said that the struts are a little worn but not too bad and not really leaking. 154,000 miles and original struts.

    Car still handles well too.
  • swschradswschrad Member Posts: 2,171
    on a 91 olds ciera.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,691
    and that was too late. It's a soft riding LeSabre (98) and the struts got softer slowly and
    I didn't realize it until last summer how they were letting the car wallow. I couldn't replace
    them due to a surgery coming up. And just now got it done>

     Put on Monroe Sensatracs at Sears (Had half price installation and Monroe has $75 coupon for additional purchases at store for 90 days). Car handles great and they're not brutally hard at first like ones I put on the 93 LeSabre also Monroes but 8 years ago. Those replacements lasted about 100K and then started to get a little soft.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    since it is a car you drive all the time, you do not really notice when the struts/shocks go soft and flabby, because it happens so gradually. Short of them leaking then, there is no way to know to change them until the tires start getting ruined (cupping etc), and that is an expensive way to find out, because then you may need to buy new tires as well!

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • jc1973jc1973 Member Posts: 63
    HAVE 158000 MILES ON A 94 SUNBIRD ORIGINAL SHOCKS AND STRUTS STILL OKAY BUT IVE WENT THRU 3 SETS OF WHEEL BEARINGS BOTH SIDES CAR EATS WHEELBEARINGS FOR SOME REASON
  • vchengvcheng Member Posts: 1,284
    ..on the type and quality of the original or replacement components (oil, oil/gas, gas, precision machined vs teflon coating, pipe tube vs welded tubes, corrugated bellows vs exposed seals etc) and the type of driving (road quality and style of driving).

    For extremes, eg oblivious driver banging through a lot of potholes in a cheap car, might need (may not get, but need) new struts at 10k miles. A careful driver on smooth roads in a good quality car might make it to well over 100-150k miles.
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    Back in about 1996, I looked into "doing" a set of struts on a 1986 Chrysler LeBaron. Every where I discussed my interest, I was warned off by experts to never replace struts at home in your garage. The danger to life and limb was said to be too great. I bought the appropriate Monroe parts, removed the struts, rebuilt them, and reinstalled them. It was somewhat arduous, but a very satisfying accomplishment. I find I am not really attracted to a repeat performance, but will consider it!
  • vchengvcheng Member Posts: 1,284
    ...is from the compressed springs. Proper tools and work practices are a must. Otherwise struts are fairly straightforward to replace. Most vehicles would likely need an alignment check afterwards too.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,691
    Have the shop drive the car around the block before doing the alignment but after the new struts are put on. That will settle the new struts so there's no artificial position while doing the alignment. The shop that did mine this week didn't drive the car other than from the one end of the building to the parking lot to the next entrance to align it. When I brought it back the next day, some of the specs were out enough the alignment computer had them x'ed out for being out of specs.

     I knew they'd have to look at the alignment again so I didn't make a big deal out of not driving the car enough to move the struts into a settle position. The car has had a lead since it was new; I told the shop that but they treated me as the dumb blond type of customer. I was right...

    The business about driving the car around the block came from a talk radio mechnic who had called me back about the earlier alignment problems with the car. I had asked about brand of struts to use..., and he made taht suggestion.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • bburton3bburton3 Member Posts: 185
    Had one to get away from me-lucky no damage to me but broken bones are a real possibility. If you have access to a air driven impact or a variable speed 1/2" wrench-u can run the spring compressors down pretty fast with those-really slow with a ratchet wrench.
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    You could hardly do the job at all without an air impact wrench, and other "uncommon" tools. I have 2 sets of spring compressors and several roller cabinets and top boxes full of other high quality tools and supplies. If you have confidence in your abilities and you do the research, there are many automotive mechanical jobs that can be accomplished in the "home" shop. I used a China Marker grease pencil to register the alignment on the 1986 LeBaron I mentioned. When I got it all back together, the alignment was essentially as good as before the strut replacement.
  • mitchfloridamitchflorida Member Posts: 420
    For whatever reason, I had put off doing the ventilation filter change out. The dealer wanted an incredible $115+ Tax to change the darn thing out . . so I just never had it done.

    After 4 years and 51,000 miles, I finally went to the local Goodyear dealer and he replaced the filter for only $55 installed. It took the poor guy at least 45 minutes to get the job done . .. no way I could have done it on my own, glad I didn't try. But the difference in air quality is incredible , and it cools a lot better as well. This change out should be done every 2 years or so. For do it yourselfers see below. Has anyone attempted to do it themselves

    P.S. Goodyear used a Purolator air filter . . I trust just as good as Honda air filter that cost double the price!

    http://www.batauto.com/articles/cabinair.shtml
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    Your Purolator filter may be better than the OEM. Honda may "rebrand" a lesser filter.
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Member Posts: 2,882
    I've done the procedure twice on my '99 CRV, it's almost identical to the Accord. It took me about an hour and a half the first time, but less than an hour the second. The dealer wanted over $100, which does seem reasonable, an hour labor plus parts would be about $100.
  • treostertreoster Member Posts: 74
    This is very simple on 2003 Accord...seiously, a 5 minute job my mother could do.

    Honda OEM's micronAir filters....you can find the part number on www.mirconAir.com. Find a retailer, do it yourself, and save the $$$.

    Also, Honda uses the plain paper filters, not the "combi" (charcoal activated) filters...you may want to use these, as they are better (I notice a difference). I replace them twice a year, an it's a minor maintenance item that makes a huge difference.
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