The previous Michelins I had on the car were simply awful in the snow... I've now got a set of Bridgestone Turanzas on the car; we've only had one light snow so far this year, though. They seemed to go pretty well, but I'll have to report back when we get actual snowfall. Even with the awful tires which allowed a good deal of rear end slippage and oversteer if you weren't careful, it was never unpredictable or uncontrollable, at least at resonable and prudent speeds for snow driving. I find the brakes easy to modulate as well, even without ABS; I've really got to step on them firmly to lock 'em up on snow (all bets are off on ice, like with any car, however.) Overall, my 740 isn't too bad; I like having the manual transmission for second gear starts, as well (I know newer Volvos have this feature on their auto trannies, but I prefer a stick all the same.) A locking or limited slip differential would be nice, but at this point I can't justify the expense to install one.
I used to drive an old 140 wagon in the Colorado winters and with studded snows and a sensible driver it wasn't bad at all for most normal snow conditions. Better than most RWD cars, probably because being so gutless it had built-in traction control.
I can safely note that my 850 sedan, even without studded snows, performs very well in the Vermont winters. With its winter mode in the automatic transmission and a sensible driver- I drive really slow in the winter- it's very good.
In response to jrosasmc's previous queries about 1975 240's, reliability of older volvos, and snow abilities I would like to state that I have a 1975 245 that I have owned for 4 years, and it is perhaps the most reliable, cheapest transportation I have ever heard of. I race it in rallyx on weekends, drive it flat out during the week (often shifting over 6000 rpm), and put a couple hundred a year into maintenance. I change the oil once a year with amsoil, and it just keeps on going. It will keep up with traffic pretty easy with the 4.3:1 rear diff and the bulletproof B20 (possibly the toughest motor ever made) doesn't mind 5000 rpm on the interstate for hours on end The handling is pretty impressive with some minor mods incuding ipd springs. I have taken it snow camping several times and it starts instantly in sub zero temperatures, and can powersteer through deep snow drifts with ease. I have even trailered a 25 foot Bayliner Cabin Cruiser with it. I wouldn't even consider trading it for a FWD "folvo." I currently own about 7 RWD volvos, along with various german makes (porsche, BMW, etc.) and this car is by far my favorite. The Unique styling of old volvos can really grow on you (really they are less boxy than most cars of there time) And to the person that said 240 parking brakes don't work- they need to be adjusted as the pads wear by turning a wheel inside the rear rotor/hub that can be accessed with the wheel off. On my car they can lock up the rear tires instantly at any speed, and kill the engine from full throttle near redline (if the clutch doesn't let loose). Best parking brake I have ever used....
A 240 with a stock B20 is a slug. Granted just about the only way you can kill one is with a sledge hammer or a torch, but a performance vehicle, it's not. Also-- I didn't know that they made the 245 with a B20. In Sweden, all 245s had the B21. Oh well.
They really are no fun to drive with a stock motor, that's true. The car is just too heavy for a basically anemic engine. But they are a LOT better car than the 140s, so they were progressing.
The problem with the stock B20 motor is that the camshafts are no good and neither are the timing gears. Neither one stops the car (usually) but they contribute to the motors very sluggish performance and its annoying noise levels. But you swap out the cam, using a B20E head and the SU type carbs, and some better timing gears, and of course rebuild that distributor, and you have a totally different car. And yes, they can be made to "handle" very well, too. But not stock.
The parking brake shoes are just too small. If I lived on a hill with a 240 and a stickshift, I'd recommend a wheel chock for sure. The parking brake is just poor engineering, plain and simple.
240s with B20 is the exception. Most came with the B21, which did help the performance. As we've discussed before, even those cars are no speed monsters, but for the mid to late 70's, they were allright. The OHC B21, and especially the B23 has some wicked performance potential compared to the pushrod B20 if you find someone who knows how to work these engines.
I suppose you can make anything go fast, but a B21 wouldn' t be my first choice. Still, being OHC, it was about time for Volvo to enter the 20th Century, that's true, and it was a good engine. Too bad they didn't have it ready sooner.
Don't forget the 940 as well. In a 1994 comparison test of family wagons, Consumer Reports clocked a NA 940 at a sluggish 12.7 seconds from 0-60. Heck, even my own Mercury Villager minivan could run rings around any 940 wagon.
Yes, the NA 940 was just about as much a slug as the 240. WHat would a base Taurus wagon do at the time? I view the base 940 as a basic work car. Pretty simple design, and robust and safe. Nothing fancy or fun about it at all.
...for a base Taurus wagon was around 11.5 seconds. I forget the year though...somewhere between 1996 and now. That'd be with the 3.0 Vulcan V-6. I think that engine was actually a bit quicker in the '86-95 Tauruses.
Yep, GM is still lots of old tech, and it's hurting them image-wise, even if it works pretty well. This is why BMW beat up so badly on Volvo in the marketplace.
MY 1ST VOLVO {NEW} WAS A 1971 142S 2DR, LOST A CAM AT 14K.... LOVED THE 79 242GT, FUN TO DRIVE BUT THE ONE I LIKED BEST WAS THE 76 BERTONE.. ALTHOUGH THE V6 VPR ENGINE WITH THE OHC OIL SCREENS REQUIRED CONSTANT CLEANING UNLESS YOU WANTED TO R&R ENGINE. THE 85 244 WAS NO ROCKET, BUT, A GOOD COMMUTE CAR...
I never cared for the Bertone myself. Aside from the fact that it was just a normal production Volvo with a roof job, I didn't find it accomplished anything. It didn't make the car prettier, it took away headroom, and it didn't make the car any more valuable at resale time. So, no looks, no performance, no practicality, and no value. Sounds like a bad idea, don't you think?
really took Volvo AB to the cleaners on that deal. How do you hire one of Italy's best styling houses and come up with a car that's no better looking than a 242?
I see it doesn't get much love here, but I'm interested in a 1990 780 Turbo I saw around here. I kind of like the way it looks (1980s kitsch in a Maserati Biturbo kind of vein) and it's an interesting contrast to my other car (a Citroen DS, the most brilliant automobile in world history even though it has a truck engine). Also has a very nice interior (something more important to me than head-turningness) so it might be a good thing to keep in the driveway (the Goddess gets the garage!) and tool around in.
Also, it only has a tape deck, so how difficult is a head-unit install on one of these? I didn't buy a Mercedes 300E (more expensive and a little bit rougher inside than the 780) because changing the stereo is supposed to be a nightmare....
I do plan also on taking it to a local Volvo specialist if the seller comes down a bit on price.
I'm not interested in putting a V8 in one or anything at any point, although if the engine died I understand that the straight six from the 960/S90/S80 2.9 is a drop in with about the same power and more torque that might even be lighter than the iron-block turbo four.... (That engine that's apparently going to be the backbone for Jaguar in the future. 'Bout time they went back to the straight six!)
Nothing wrong with a Bertone particularly, just don't pay extra for it. Just treat it like a regular Volvo in the marketplace. As with any early 90s turbo design, the turbo definitely has a lifespan, so if the original turbo is hitting 100K or so, double-check it for noise, leakage or oil burning.
Most stereos just pull out with the right tools inserted. A qualified shop should know how to do this pretty easily and it might pay for you to just pay for that...a quick stereo swap around here costs about $60-100.
The stereo opening is the DIN standard size, so you could easily install any aftermarket system. The turbo B230 engine was a very good engine that could take a lot of abuse. I disagree with shifty on this one. The engines I've seen (quite a few, actually) can easily do 200,000 miles without trouble if the oil chages have been done regularly.
Thanks for the advice. I'm sending it to a Volvo specialist on Thursday to check it out mechanically.
As for paying $60-$100 for a headunit install -- wow! That's a fifteen minute job, tops, on a car with a standard (DIN, double-DIN, etc.) sized stereo when you buy the harness ($7-$10), and maybe a ten minute job when you just cut the old plug off and splice directly. Even on my Citroen DS, which required some re-wiring and cutting of metal to fit a DIN headunit inside a shafted bay (the trim-ring around it was DIN-sized, though), it didn't take more than an hour. My time is precious, but not to the tune of $300-$400/hr precious! (Now, installing the AC Delco alternator retrofit in the Citroen, THAT was a b***h! Must've spent five days tracing the wiring harness on it, even though I had a very good map!)
Then again, there are a lot of people who are scared of any wire that doesn't plug into a power outlet, I guess...
The problem comes in when there's lots of proprietary hardware. For instance, one can't just replace the headunit on a Bose system or on a Volvo/Dynaudio one -- you have to keep it as is or replace everything. I basically wanted to know where the 780 stood on that continuum.
I really don't know without looking at it, so in those cases I always advise the safest route for people. But yes, some swaps are not so easy, you're right.
Listen to this- My neighbor's '93 240 wagon's tailpipe was hanging loose this morning as I saw him leaving his house to go to work. Now I see why you rag on old Volvos' exhaust systems. I mean, that thing was hanging so loose it wasn't funny at all, considering the image he has to project daily (he's our county judge). Looks like that stupid rubber donut broke apart.
I should add that his 240 was built near the end of the model's run (12/92). I know this car very well, since he bought it new. It only has 100.5k miles on it too! (We like to discuss our Volvos from time to time)
I remember riding in the very first Volvo I ever got into: It was my mom's coworker's new '92 240. Even then, I thought it was outdated, because the whole interior looked as if it was right out of the '70s, because everything looked so old-fashioned. I mean everything from the seats to the instrument panel design. Do you agree with me, Mr. Shiftright?
The basic design of the dashboard came in '73 140-160 series. It was dressed up when the 240 came along in '75, and in '81. That's it. Yes, in '92, the design was getting very old.
Now now, the '92 Volvo wasn't old, it was retro. It was ahead of its time by 10 years or so. The fact that it had never NOT been retro just makes it more innovative.
2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])
If you're still around, the 780's stereo, although it's a different model, shouldn't be too different than the 740's (which I ripped out for a Blaupunkt head unit.) The only real pain was bypassing the factory amp and running new speaker wire from the amp (which is under the steering column) to the unit. Just a bunch of splicing, that's all. I certainly wouldn't pay an install shop to do it. If you keep a Citroen running by yourself, an old Volvo's stereo should pose no challenge!
They're okay but hard to tune. You need a special tool to adjust the jets and you can't do that while the car is running. So it's...shut off engine, open carb, insert special tool, take a guess, start up engine, shut off engine, open carb...etc etc...
Also there's a diaphragm inside that goes bad. But generally they'll give more power than the SUs, but less economy.
If you have the tools and the knowledge, they aren't bad.
I don't know what drives me, but I just love the old, old boxy Volvos from the late '60s up through the late '80s. My college friend and I were having a discussion about Volvos as we were driving in her car today (she has a '97 850, I have a '93 850); she agrees with me that there is a magic about them. They're simply elegant- yes, even the earliest 240s!
No offense, but I think they're really fun to drive, even though many blast them as boring and dull. I've driven everything from a Miata to 5-Series BMWs and I seriously don't get the same thrill from those cars as I do with, say, a 5-speed 240 or 850. And yes, Mr. Shiftright, I give you permission to digress or disagree with me, since I know you kind of dislike old Volvos. But I would die for a '75 240 right now.
Oh, I don't dislike them, I just find it amusing to call them "fun". Do you get out enough? I'm worried about you LOL!
I suppose you could try to fling one around a turn and scare yourself, that might be fun, presuming you could duct tape yourself to the seat so you don't fall out the window.
My favorite old Volvo would be the 120 Series 123GT...next favorite a P1800 ES with modifications,next favorite or close favorite a 544 Amazon wagon, next a 544 B18 sport, next a 122 4-speed coupe.
Least favorite (okay, I despise them) would be a 164, followed by the 144, also a car I don't like)
240 series are okay, I can live with them.
I like 444s but wouldn't buy one because of the B16 engine.
I do like the 544 Duetts, although they're a little too old for my tastes.
My father now wants to buy an old vintage Volvo to tinker on and repair himself. He's thinking of either a 140 Series, P1800, or 240. Your take on this, Shifty?
Comments
The problem with the stock B20 motor is that the camshafts are no good and neither are the timing gears. Neither one stops the car (usually) but they contribute to the motors very sluggish performance and its annoying noise levels. But you swap out the cam, using a B20E head and the SU type carbs, and some better timing gears, and of course rebuild that distributor, and you have a totally different car. And yes, they can be made to "handle" very well, too. But not stock.
The parking brake shoes are just too small. If I lived on a hill with a 240 and a stickshift, I'd recommend a wheel chock for sure. The parking brake is just poor engineering, plain and simple.
Then GM is now using a two century old technology, right?
BUT THE ONE I LIKED BEST WAS THE 76 BERTONE.. ALTHOUGH THE V6 VPR ENGINE WITH THE OHC OIL SCREENS REQUIRED CONSTANT CLEANING UNLESS YOU WANTED TO R&R ENGINE. THE 85 244 WAS NO ROCKET, BUT, A GOOD COMMUTE CAR...
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Does anyone have any suggestions for things to look for that aren't at http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/6570/tips.html.
Also, it only has a tape deck, so how difficult is a head-unit install on one of these? I didn't buy a Mercedes 300E (more expensive and a little bit rougher inside than the 780) because changing the stereo is supposed to be a nightmare....
I do plan also on taking it to a local Volvo specialist if the seller comes down a bit on price.
I'm not interested in putting a V8 in one or anything at any point, although if the engine died I understand that the straight six from the 960/S90/S80 2.9 is a drop in with about the same power and more torque that might even be lighter than the iron-block turbo four.... (That engine that's apparently going to be the backbone for Jaguar in the future. 'Bout time they went back to the straight six!)
Most stereos just pull out with the right tools inserted. A qualified shop should know how to do this pretty easily and it might pay for you to just pay for that...a quick stereo swap around here costs about $60-100.
As for paying $60-$100 for a headunit install -- wow! That's a fifteen minute job, tops, on a car with a standard (DIN, double-DIN, etc.) sized stereo when you buy the harness ($7-$10), and maybe a ten minute job when you just cut the old plug off and splice directly. Even on my Citroen DS, which required some re-wiring and cutting of metal to fit a DIN headunit inside a shafted bay (the trim-ring around it was DIN-sized, though), it didn't take more than an hour. My time is precious, but not to the tune of $300-$400/hr precious! (Now, installing the AC Delco alternator retrofit in the Citroen, THAT was a b***h! Must've spent five days tracing the wiring harness on it, even though I had a very good map!)
Then again, there are a lot of people who are scared of any wire that doesn't plug into a power outlet, I guess...
The problem comes in when there's lots of proprietary hardware. For instance, one can't just replace the headunit on a Bose system or on a Volvo/Dynaudio one -- you have to keep it as is or replace everything. I basically wanted to know where the 780 stood on that continuum.
2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])
Also there's a diaphragm inside that goes bad. But generally they'll give more power than the SUs, but less economy.
If you have the tools and the knowledge, they aren't bad.
No offense, but I think they're really fun to drive, even though many blast them as boring and dull. I've driven everything from a Miata to 5-Series BMWs and I seriously don't get the same thrill from those cars as I do with, say, a 5-speed 240 or 850. And yes, Mr. Shiftright, I give you permission to digress or disagree with me, since I know you kind of dislike old Volvos. But I would die for a '75 240 right now.
I suppose you could try to fling one around a turn and scare yourself, that might be fun, presuming you could duct tape yourself to the seat so you don't fall out the window.
My favorite old Volvo would be the 120 Series 123GT...next favorite a P1800 ES with modifications,next favorite or close favorite a 544 Amazon wagon, next a 544 B18 sport, next a 122 4-speed coupe.
Least favorite (okay, I despise them) would be a 164, followed by the 144, also a car I don't like)
240 series are okay, I can live with them.
I like 444s but wouldn't buy one because of the B16 engine.
I guess technically they are 545 Duets. It's a 544 with a station wagon body.
My father now wants to buy an old vintage Volvo to tinker on and repair himself. He's thinking of either a 140 Series, P1800, or 240. Your take on this, Shifty?