1970's & '80s Volvos

Mr_Shiftright

Yes, a 210 is the wagon version of the 544. I have a picture here of a 1961 Volvo wagon, which is called in this book I'm reading a "Duett Utility" and numbered as a P 445. This is from a 1961 book from Europe that I have. I'd love to have one!

jrosasmc

You said yourself at one point that a 122 wagon isn't a bad choice at all as well.

amazon

THe 445 was based on the B16 volvo 444. WHen it became equipped with B18 and 12 Volt electrical system, it was renamed to 210.

Mr_Shiftright

a 210 would be a better choice I think although the 445 looks pretty nice.

A 122 wagon wouldn't be a bad car to tinker with. I'd suggest an IPD cam to get rid of the junk stock camshaft, a B20E head, rebuilt engine with Mahle pistons and Vandervel bearings, SU carbs, electronic ignition, American alternator with revised mounting system (stock Volvo generator mount is BAD), steel timing gears, overdrive transmission, bilstein shocks, thicker swaybar and a/c from a Japanese car. Now wouldn't that be a nice ride!

amazon

.. the alternator and its mounting. They're just fine.

If you use a B20E head, you'd better also bore the stock B18 block to a B20.

Mr_Shiftright

No I mean the stock 122 generator mounting--it's really bad. So I would switch from generator to alternator.

Yes, boring to 2 liters would be great.

jrosasmc

What are the advantages of an alternator over a generator?

Mr_Shiftright

mostly better charging at low speeds I think.

amazon

We've had this discussion before, and I have never had any problems with the alternator or generator mounting whatsoever.

Mr_Shiftright

The generator mounts wear from vibration. I don't think I ever saw a good one on a B18. Very common problem.

People compensate by tightening the swing arm and this create excessive tension, which then wipes out the water pumps, another problem on the B18s.

amazon

I never had that problem.

Mr_Shiftright

Look at the u-shaped bracket that holds the generator. The holes are starting to wobble out into an oval. Most people don't notice it unless it gets really bad.

jrosasmc

I've discussed over in the Alfa Romeo board the value and/or significance of the last Spiders produced for the U.S., which were called "Commemorative Editions." It was mentioned that all they are were leftover '93 Spiders sold here as '94s, and that they're not worth significantly more because of the special badging and dashboard trim.

Volvo did something similar back in 1993, sending the last 1600 240s built from about Feb. to April over to the States as "240 Classics." These Volvos had special alloy wheels, body-colored trim and mirrors, wood trim, and a special dashboard plaque that told you what number of 1600 your car was, all too reminiscent of those so-called '94 Alfa Spiders. What bugs me is that these 240 Classics are being sold for ridiculously high prices, whether they're on Ebay or not. And I know that my own '93 Volvo (not a 240, but an 850) will bring about $5500 tops if I tried to sell it; people claim that you can get about $9000 for a clean 240 Classic. Any comments and/or reflections on this Volvo phenomenon?

ghulet

....I'm guessing anyone who would pay $9000 for any Volvo 240 either needs a psychiatric examination, or they think last-of-the-breed automatically means collectible (which, IMO, is highly doubtful in this case). You know how it is, people can ask whatever they want for anything, and in many cases, there's someone somewhere willing to pay it.

Mr_Shiftright

I suppose in an auction you can hype some foolish people into spending more than they should, but a few careless purchases certainly do not make the market.

If you pay $4,000 over book for a car with some decals and a few odd trim pieces, then it's YOUR turn to hype the car and get someone to pay $4,000 over book so you can break even. But the book value stays the same no matter if a few people over-pay.

Common sense dictates that you cannot intrinsically increase a car's value with $100 worth of add-ons. Especially when the car was not exactly everyone's "dream machine" to begin with.

At least the Bertone models had a different roof line, but here again it was just a tarted-up old Volvo, and a not very pretty one at that.

Now on the other hand there was the Volvo 123GT, which IS worth more because the GT equipment is significant and really worth having, like overdrive, special dash, and I believe other mods which I forget at the moment. So that car is worth double a run of the mill 122.

ghulet

Last night I saw a pretty ratty, kelly green 244 wagon, I'm guessing late '70s (single round headlights, taillights not flush), containing the requisite young bohemians. The kicker was, this car had Montana plates (I'm in Chicago). I can't imagine driving a ratty old Volvo that far, though I guess it says something about its durability. Or maybe it just says something about the owners, I dunno.

Mr_Shiftright

Oh, they run and run those old Volvos---I mean if we took that car in for diagnostics there would probably be 125 things wrong with it, but the basic driveline in those cars can stagger along for ages--I'm sure by now it's noisy, wheezy, and thumps and bumps like a Third World percussion concert, but you rarely will see a catastrophic failure in these cars. You do have to be tolerant of a lot of basic faults, though. You aren't going to get the solid feel of an old German car.

amazon

This car is also worth more because it's rare. The Tach, stromger engine, and mirrors are also included in the items special for this car. I want one....

Mr_Shiftright

Me, too. It would be a great car to have--so easy to work on, attractive in a plain Swedish kind of way (pretty clean design) and even sorta fun to drive, good fuel economy, sturdy, lots of parts available except trim pieces. All in all, a real bargain in a very driveable "collectible" car.

amazon

They seem to be pretty expensive, though. At least the asking proces are high. What do you think a mint 123GT should be worth in the Mid West?

amazon

How would the market react to modifications such as the ones we've been talking about? (bigger head, 2.2liter, bigger cam, etc.)

I saw a 121 with a B20E complete with the FI and all in Sweden not too long ago.

amazon

There were (very) few 16 valve DOHC aluminum heads made by Volvo and others in the mid 70's for the B20 engines. Now that would be cool!!! I remember having seen an article about a 121 with a Turbocharged, NOS, 16 valve B20. This car had a top speed of 180-190MPH, and the engine had 450 HP at 9000RPM.... It was dubbed the Midnight Blower, and would scare many vettes in Stockholm at the time.

Mr_Shiftright

180-190 mph sounds dreadfully optimistic don't you think? I don't see how the aerodynamics would permit such speeds with "only" 450HP, and besides, I don't know who'd be nuts enough to go that fast in a 70s Volvo. Even a new Viper or Vette can't go that fast with equal or more HP and both are a mighty handful at 160+

justin

i had a hand-me-down Volvo DL, 1980, that was given to me in 1989. 4 Door, gas engine, 4 speed with OD, tan terry cloth interior. everyone else in school had Escort GT's or Baretta's, but i had the Volvo. even then, i knew the Volvo was HOT. if only i had taken care of it. i got rid of it with about 170k on the clock. somehow anti-freeze was in the oil. not pretty. but over it's lifetime, before it was "mine", it only needed numerous exhaust systems and that is it.

personally, i miss it so much. if i could get a 93 sedan or wagon, in good shape, i would love it. they had "style" that nothing today has. i know they aren't for everyone, but i can still smell the interior of that car. crank sunroof, no tach, wobbly speedo, huge steering wheel, four round headlights up front. beautiful!

bleonard

bleonard

I am looking for a engine wiring diagram and a clean wiring harness.

Bill

Mr_Shiftright

I think eBay is your best shot or googling the specialty Volvo boards.

wascar

How do I know when I need new shocks ? How do I know if I need them in front or back or both ? It sure bounces over the Boston streets. What's kind is best for the 240 ? 1993, - 100,000. miles

Mr_Shiftright

Bilsteins if you can afford them. Boge are pretty good and cost less--a good alternative. Koni, also expensivo.

Stay away from KYB and cheap American stuff.

If you have 100K on original shocks, you definitely need them. Most shocks are tired on any car at 80K.

esommer

Just replaced rotors, calipers, rubber lines and fluid on our 83' 242T that we are restoring. Although we have followed the brake bleeding procedure in the manual, we still are unable to build up a solid brake pedal. It goes right to the floor. Any thoughts on what we may be doing wrong? Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Mr_Shiftright

we're discussing this in your first post on the subject. Try to avoid duplicate posts---thanks!

allfader

thats correct. the car does exist up to this days:).
this amazon where the fastest of its time, and i can tell you that the fastest janne went in this car was 185km/h in third gear... the acelerator pedal got stuck under high speed tests outside stockholm and the nitrous system engaged... the engine you refer to was a b20 with nos and a weber dcoe that was mounted before the turbo,this was combined with water injection in later years the kugel fisher mekano injection system was mounted... do not know if there was made a measurement of power after this...

esommer

I have been told that you cannot just add an intercooler to a non-intercooled 240T.

Can anyone provide additional information on this subject?

Volvo used to offer an intercooler upgrade kit for around $700. I have checked with the local Volvo parts dealer and that kit is no longer available. The kit included such things as the intercooler, all the piping, wastegate, fuel pump, etc.

I have discussed with others that have simply added the intercooler and proper "plumbing" and then re-adjusted the existing wastegate. They didn't do anything with the fuel distribution.

I would like to intercool my car without replacing too many components, but I don't want to damage the engine either.

Any info is greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Eric

mkockler

I have a 1991 240 with 181K miles. For as long as I can remember, whenever I run the A/C when idling or in traffic the temperature gauge rises almost to the red. The dealer suggested that the temperature control may be sticking and need to be replaced. Can anyone explain how it works, how to test it, and how to replace it? Thanks.

Mr_Shiftright

Hi,

You should probably cut and paste this question into our "Technical Questions" topic on the Maintenance & Repair Board. This topic is more about discussing the history, models, etc. of "classic" old Volvos--so it's not about repairs.

The Tech Questions topic has a lot more gearheads in it and much more activity. Here's your link:

Technical Questions

best

MrShiftright
host

Mr_Shiftright

Hi!

This isn't really a technical board for Volvos. I would suggest that you contact IPD and see if they can advise you.

http://www.ipdusa.com/

good luck with your project!

MrShiftright
Host

blackdayz

I know this group is for newer models, but I was wondering if anyone can tell me if a 1968 volvo B18B engine is internally or externally balanced?

Mr_Shiftright

Just look for counterweights on the flywheel or harmonic balancer if you have external balancing. If you don't see any, then it's internally balanced.

If it's external, those parts will have to be on the crankshaft if you are balancing the engine dynamically.

Of course unless you are racing, all this may not matter so much...

amazon

It's internally balanced.

fuddle

Hello. I have an '86 Volvo 240DL, and the brake lights won't work. The normal back lights and the turn signals work fine, however. I have replaced the fuses and the bulbs, but the brake lights just won't work. Does anyone have any idea what it is? I was told by someone it could be the brake switch. If that's it, is it something I can do myself? If not, how much surgery would be required by a mechanic to fix it and how much might it cost? Thank you.

Mr_Shiftright

If I recall it's pretty easy. I believe that switch is on the master cylinder, a small silver cylinder with wires coming out of it. It's a ten minute job and probably a $10 part...oh wait...Volvo....a $20 part.

If the switch isn't there, then it's under the brake pedal...a little push button thing. Sorry I'm not sure but I sometimes get my old Volvos mixed up. I think it's a hydaulic switch on the master cylinder though, under the hood, just in front of the steering wheel area.

sdawg

I am totally new to the Volvo scene, but I noticed an 83 242DL for sale as I was driving home from work. I am quite interested in it. How much is one worth if it is in great shape? The body looks good and the engine has only 109000 miles, along with a lot of recent work done on the suspension and clutch. (its a 5 spd)Also, what it the approximate gas mileage on one of these tanks?

210delray

Having owned a 1980 242DL for 21 years (1982-2003), I can tell you they're great cars. Shifty though will disagree!

But I'd be very leery of buying one that old now, unless you obtain a long, well-documented maintenance history and have the car checked out by a knowledgeable mechanic. These cars are notorious for rust, especially right behind the rear wheels, and I've no doubt you'll find oil leaks if the car is put on a lift. Plus the suspension bushings front and rear are likely to be shot, unless they were part of the recent suspension work. Coolant leakage from the water pump gasket is a chronic problem, and exhaust systems seem to have a short life also, aft of the catalytic converter. Another problem is that the front seat cushion supports (wire and a wicker-like material) deteriorate over time so it's like sitting in a tub.

Gas mileage is pretty awful by today's standards for a slow 4-cylinder: 20 mpg in the city if you're not stuck in heavy traffic and no better than the upper 20s on the highway (manual tranny).

I'd say you shouldn't pay more than about $1500 tops.

Mr_Shiftright

I think you and I are right on the same page about old 240s. I don't think they are BAD cars at all. My major complaint with them is that they are clumsy and boring to drive, but that of course is because of my particular tastes, not a fault of the car itself.

Definitely the exhaust systems are prone to failure, the rear swing arm suspension bushings and the usual pieces of interior falling off everywhere.

Old Volvos are sturdy cars but their interior build quality and paintwork is really bad. It's hard to keep these cars from looking like piles of junk--you have to work at it.The Volvo leather is particularly low grade.

So if you find a clean one inside and out, that's worth paying extra for (to a point).

I also agree, 18-22 mpg, perhaps a little better on the highway with overdrive transmission option.

Certainly I'd choose an old Volvo 240 over the equivalent year BMW or Benz or Sasab in terms of reliability and maintenance. And they are comfortable and roomy besides.

Problem is finding one that isn't all clapped out with too many miles on it.

hpmctorque

Although I didn't like them when they were new, or dislike them for that matter, I like them now. Boring can have different meanings for me, as in "boring, but with character", or just "boring, without character." It's hard to explain te difference but, for me, the DL/GL240 falls into the former category, and hence its appeal, while a '90s Buick Century or an Achieva (4 door, in particular, because the coupe, at least, looks kind of interesting) exemplifies the latter.

Mr_Shiftright

Boring with character sounds like a contradiction to me. I suppose you could steer one into a tree or slam it in reverse at 60 mph to pick up the pace, but otherwise I couldn't think of anything resembling excitement in a Volvo 240.

hpmctorque

Okay, this is a very subjective, individual thing, so I understand how my simple explanation came across as a contradiction. I'll elaborate. I drove a 240 just once, and was a passenger in another one a couple of times, years ago, and at the time I considered it a boring drive, plain and simple. No "buts", and I'm sure that the driving dynamics have hardly become more exciting with time. However, for me, at least, perhaps in a strange way, time + wear and tear can add a certain character and individuality to a car. Part of this intangible appeal may be that you come to respect an old tank that's been through some battles, but retains its dignity. In the case of the 240 it's the simple, classic exterior lines combined with the spartan yet functional interior, the rather high (when low was in) supportive seats, the utilitarian seat fabrics, and the tough, durable engine. Added together, these qualities impart a certain character to this car that, considering the current price, compensates for it's driving shortcomings. When the 240 was new, it's styling just looked dated and not with it, so there was little to compensate for the the way it drove. However, time and mileage have imparted a certain charm to the 240, that it didn't have when it was new. Allowing for better ride and handling, and the other differences we're familiar with, I might use similar language to describe the appeal of the Mercedes W123D. By comparison, FWD Buick Centurys and Olds A bodies, and the Achieva (or Ford Tempos, Mopar K-cars, etc.) never acquired the charm and dignity to which I'm referring.

210delray

You've actually hit on something my younger son mentioned when we had the Volvo 240. It was one year older than he was, but he said it still seemed more modern than the clapped-out K-cars used in his high school driver's ed class. (And these were newer cars than my '80 240.)

Mr_Shiftright

I think the concept of "character", while quite interesting, really isn't about the car itself but a projection of memories, fondness, etc. put upon it by the owner---something I often do myself.

But I was defining boring as very much tied to the tangible aspects of the car...basically a noisy, body-leaning, brick-shaped, sluggish old box. If we define "excitement" in a car as something to do with speed, precision, fabulous noises, "sexy" lines, tire-burning power, eliciting envy, etc.---well the poor Volvo 240 strikes out on all of those.

I mean, even an ox has character, but it's not the most exciting animal to watch or ride :P .

So one can like a boring thing (no comments on marriage please).

sdawg

How about the emissions? Many of the old bricks I see for sale are bragged to bea ble to pass the smog test. Is this something that you have to work real hard to get one of these cars to do? Are they naturally a nasty soot shootin' carbon emittin' greenhatin' manmade devil?