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Acura TSX
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aqpham
Nice interior and handling, and loved the dashboard. Nice tight short throw shifter, something you can't say about a maxima. I did find the seat bolsters slightly tigher than I prefer, again maybe just something to get used to (the Max has farily wide seats), although I am not very wide, so this could be an issue for others.
Overall, a nice car, but I don't think it excited me enough to spend 27K on one. Might just break down and spring a few K more for a G35 6 speed, which would probably be perfectly happy with a powerglide with all that power and torque.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
1. Nice car, but I don't see the value over more powerful V6 powered FWD sedans from Honda, Nissan, and Mazda that are roomier and cost less.
2. Nice car, but for only a couple grand more, I can get myself into an entirely different class of car - RWD, Euro, etc.
The TSX sits in a funny spot in-between. That's both its strength and weakness.
- Mark
Exteriorly, at best its not too ugly, but it is bloated looking, with the tallest doors I've ever seen. My wifes 2001 Accord is sportier looking, let alone my Integra.
The interior is a uniform sea of grey, with no contrast and a huge dash. The drivers side door panel felt loose. It seemed huge inside.
Drive-wise, the engine is very smooth, with plenty of power, with a bit of a high pitched whine. The transmission felt perfect, with the easy clutch and throw of my car. The ride was smooth, with much less body roll than the Accord, but more than the Integra.
So great drivetrain, OK suspension,, fair exterior and unappealing cockpit. I then drove over to Lexus and drove an IS300,and found a much more Integra like package in terms of size, cockpit style and drive. I know, different breed with RWD and more bucks, but the reality is Honda/Acura just don't currently make a sporty, small sedan. Too bad.
Infiniti took the plunge into affordable RWD products with the G35, and they can't seem to keep the demand for the car contained. Those are flying off the lots. Why should Honda alone play it really safe by introducing only FWD products ?? They took a looong while to introduce an SUV alternative (MDX & Pilot), while the competition was raking up the moolah for years. If the TSX takes off, then they would be encouraged to keep the FWD trend going.
Even with minivans, they desisted from offering a large well-designed van with a V6 for a long time with resulting tepid sales (for the then 4-cylinder equipped Odyssey), until they realized that such a formula would not work in the US. Then they introduced the current Odyssey, which has been a roaring success since. All those years of missed minivan sales (running well into 100s of thousands over several years), should have wisened them up a bit onto what pushes American buttons. What is it that prevents them from seeing the success of the BMW 3-series who rarely discount from MSRP ?? Did their success with the S2000 (which has held its price better than any BMW Z3), not instill the realization that if they introduce a RWD product, it will sell ?
Later...AH
cool commercial
Nice car. The 6-speed MT is just right for the engine in this car. RPMS at 75 was about 3200, and 6th seemed to be where 5th normally is, so I guess they spaced the other 5 gears where 1-4 normally are. I was surprized the car wasn't quieter. The engine was very smooth and power delivery was very linear, but I thought it could use more power. The dual-zone Auto Climate Control is great. Nice sound system. The interior is very nice, very refined looking. Overall it's a nice package, but not really as fun to drive as I expected.
The sales person made a big deal about the 4 year, 50000 mile warranty (yeah, some other cars have that, I thought to myself). She also told me that Acura auto-manual transmissions are just like the SMG on the M3 (well, not exactly, I told her). I think she had the BMW SMG confused with the regular BMW auto-manual trans. She also made a point to tell me that Acura dealers do not sell cars below MSRP, even though I hadn't asked about price.
They might not be willing to deal on the TSX (yet), but I'll bet that dealer will be ready to shuck and jive when the new RL and TL replacements arrive.
Interestingly enough, their 0-60 time with the manual transmission was 7.6 seconds. I had expected faster times, especially since MotorWeek times tend to be faster than other reviewers. Perhaps their test range was slower that day. Quarter mile was 15.9 seconds @ 90mph. 60-0 braking was 126 feet, I believe.
I guess it was BS.
I noticed you had a 0-60 time posted on one of those "other" boards. How did you get it?
I guess they think most people are stupid and aren't going to figure it out? (at least before they buy)
My recent experiences at the same Acura dealership have been much different, however. I think they now have new ownership. Very friendly, knowledgeable and professional and made me want to buy a car from them.
I'd be careful in comparing MotorWeek's numbers with non-MotorWeek numbers. Every magazine/program seems to approach 0-60 differently. However, I've noticed that MotorWeek numbers usually are "fast" compared to other publications. Even faster than Car & Driver in a number of cases.
There is a chance that the MotorWeek TSX might have been slowed by different track conditions. I'll have to look at the video again, but the skies were overcast and I couldn't immediately tell if the ground looked a bit damp.
Granted, there's more to the car than standing-start runs, but MotorWeek's comments jive pretty well with my driving impressions -- a fine car, but its performance won't be a compelling reason to choose it over another. This is a car that will inspire few people, no matter how ultimately satisfying it may be to own.
That said, and while cars are more than 0-60 runs, I'm surprised at slower than expected run. But then, weather and track conditions can dictate a lot in the results and we just can't compare two cars drag raced on two different events. A good measure of acceleration would come from comparison tests that should follow shortly. Not too long ago, C&D had compared a bunch of sport sedans in the $30-40K class, including the TL-S, 330i, G35 etc., and they all turned much slower then expected time based on earlier results. I believe TL-S and G35 were the quickest at 7.6s or so, while we have also seen them, and others included in the comparo, run much quicker and in mid 6s range.
A road test of European Accord with 6-speed revealed 0-62 mph acceleration potential at 7.9s, but then, it was a 0-62 run (every mph takes more time as speed gets past 50 mph), had less power and torque (190 HP/163 lb.-ft) and possibly with different gearing setup. TSX should do 0-60 in 6.8-7.0s assuming that the driver doesn't short shift and traction isn't an issue with VSA switched off.
If the gearings are similar and the power curves similar, wouldn't the 0.3 seconds faster time of the TSX be attributable to the extra 2 mph and the slight increase in power? How similar are the vehicles in weight?
I don't see how a TSX could run a hypothetical 6.8 second 0-60 based on the 7.9 second Euro Accord 0-62 (converted from kilometers) test, given the relatively small difference in power and the 2mph difference in test timing. Only way to get there is if the power curves are indeed significantly difference and the gearing much better tuned. All of which is quite possible, of course, but only more tests will tell.
I guess what I'm getting at is the market that is buying the TSX is looking for a very nice and well equipped sedan with an AT that has a good hp rating and feels nimble and quick enough around town. They don't really care about 0-60 times but when friends ask them how much power it has, they'll say 200hp and that'll sound good. A lot of people posting about the TSX don't seem to be owners but seem to care a lot about its performance numbers. I think we know we're in the minority. The TSX is a very nice car for the Honda/Acura faithful that does a lot of things well, just not superbly, with acceleration not a high priority in particular. I know this isn't what many of us hoped for but I guess Acura wasn't aiming at selling the TSX to us. JMHO.
BTW, many posters have said they think the $27k price steep for what the TSX offers. I think any lower and it'll be competing with too many non-luxury brands. Acura's trying to bolster its image and a price that is too low will undermine this. Plus, they make more profit with the price as is. Bet they didn't have to twist mgmt's arm too hard for that one.
Assuming similar gearing, 10 HP can trim about half second in Euro Accord. Also of significance is the way a car accelerates from 0 to 60. The first 40 mph probably takes as much or less time as it does for the next 20 mph. You will notice this in tests that reveal acceleration by 10 mph increments. Which means, the last 2 mph could cost as much as half second!
Let us assume that it takes 4s to accelerate from 40 to 60 mph. This means, a gain of 20 mph in 4s, or it takes 0.2s for each mph, and 2 mph gain would mean 0.4s. Now, this makes use of a simple math assuming a linear acceleration curve, which doesn’t happen, so in reality, 2 mph gain from 60 mph to 62 mph could take at least 0.4s.
Add the two, and we would have accounted for about a second to the run time. This does not invalidate Motor Weeks test, but that test alone cannot be used as a benchmark. It is also important to note that TSX and Integra GS-R have similar weight to power ratio at peak. In low to mid range, the ratio favors TSX due to a stronger torque curve and tighter gearing. Clearly, TSX should be able to at least match, if not beat, GS-R, in a straight line run (a car that consistently ran 0-60 in 7.2 s or less).
Is there much weight difference between the tested Euro Accord model and the U.S. TSX?
The only damper here, is that the GSR to achieve the 7.2secs 0-60, had to be clutch-dumped at very high revs, thus negating the "In low to mid range, the ratio favors TSX", since all these tests never were at "low to mid ranges".
The 0-60 of the TSX sounds about right at 7.6-7.8 secs with the 6-speed manual, based on my seat-of-the-pants feel while driving the TSX. The Automatic would be lucky to get into a sub-8.5sec range. By really abusing the transmission, some magazines may be able to come up with figures closer to the 7.2-7.4sec range (with the 6-speed) but I would not want to own that car, after they are done with it.
Later...AH
Interesting. Where did you see that? Everything that I've read reports about 30% of the TSX's will be 6 speeds. That contrasts with the majority of sedans only offering 5% with a stick.
"By really abusing the transmission, some magazines may be able to come up with figures closer to the 7.2-7.4sec range (with the 6-speed) but I would not want to own that car, after they are done with it." - Hunter
Which is true of any car driven to peak performance in a magazine test.
I pounded my '98 GS-R relentlessly for 210K miles, and it's still on the original clutch with over 220K on the ticker. The pressure plate spring release in the clutch for my '96 Integra broke @ 239K miles (they just wear out over time), but there was still plenty of friction material left on the clutch itself.
Obviously, it would be better to have a car that meets one's performance needs without requiring you to drive the snot out of it 24/7.
Damper, if you expected to launch TSX at high rpm. With better power delivery down low and extremely short gearing (at least 10% shorter), you wouldn't need to clutch dump at high revs. In fact with TSX, I will be surprised if dropping the clutch at 2000-2500 rpm (with stability control switched off) didn't create traction issues.
That said, every car tested by magazines go through the same process to get the optimal run, whether it is a Viper or a Focus. So, I would worry about any car that has been abused in a road test.
Strager, I second, would be nice to hear some comments and experiences from owners.
MotorWeek has put the on-line version of the review up on their web site:
http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2235a.shtml
IS300- I own a 5-speed IS300 an it is a smooth quiet car that gets only 20-21 mpg on the highway. It is rate at 25 but geared low like the Mazda 6S I like the TSX but it is a little low on power. The CL-S 6-spped is great but being discontinued and the Accord 6-speed has the power an a wide ratio and should have good performance and good mileage; test drive was very good.
#1972 S2000s are no longer holding their value and new ones are being discounted. A Honda dealer has a new 2002 with 300 miles for $27, 995 that's over a $4,000 discount. New ones are being sold $1000 to $1500 under MSRP and are immediately available. The latent demand for S2000 has been satisfied.
Is it a new 2003 Honda Accord EX 4-cylinder ? With the 160hp/161Torque DOHC i-V-tec engine ? If that strains up your hill, then I would really look at something other than the TSX.
However, if your Accord is equipped the older 2.3L SOHC vtec engine with 150hp etc., then the TSX might prove to be spunkier.
Later...AH