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Acura TSX

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Comments

  • gearhead10gearhead10 Member Posts: 84
    Yup, the 325i is much quicker than either the TSX or A4 (in stock form). Quicker than you would think for its only 184 horses and a very smooth I6 too. And as you said, it does handle much better and is more fun to drive. But we're talking $5400+ more similarly equipped here--is that really a fair comparison?

    The A4, while having 30 less hp than the TSX, felt torqier at low to mid rpms, probably due to actually more torque (166 ft-lbs) being available from 1950 rpm on up--equal to the torque PEAK of the TSX. The TSX IS quicker 0-60 though as the A4 runs out of steam above 6000 rpm.

    If you really like the A4's interior better, drive a frontrack again before buying. I'd bet you could get one equipped similarly to a TSX for only a few hundred more (sport, premium, xenons). I haven't compared the two cars back-to-back but I believe them to be very close. Both are great values. I agree that Honda has better reliability rep than Audi and other European makes though.
  • ptrekkerptrekker Member Posts: 51
    >>Yup, the 325i is much quicker than either the TSX or A4 (in stock form). Quicker than you would think for its only 184 horses and a very smooth I6 too. And as you said, it does handle much better and is more fun to drive. But we're talking $5400+ more similarly equipped here--is that really a fair comparison?


    If you are leasing, keep in mind the BMWs have better (or at the very least equal) depreciation making the leases comparable.
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    The Audi and BMW also come with free scheduled maintenance for 48 months/50,000 miles.
  • ecoeco Member Posts: 23
    This translates closer to 175ft-lbs of torque and 195hp- quite impressive!

    Can you please explain the "translation"?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,441
    BMW residuals are indeed comparable to the TSX, but a 325i with premium, leather, heated seats, xenons and manual transmission is about $34500 sticker.. I left out the sport pkg, as the BMW doesn't need it to outhandle the TSX, but if you add that, you are moving up closer to $36K. Even with the low money factors on the 2003 325i, comparable leases are about $70/month, or 20% higher. I personally would rather have the BMW, but they really don't compete with each other pricewise, if they are equipped the same. If you price the automatic, it gets even further apart, as the TSX is the same price with auto, while the BMW is $1275 more.

    regard,
    kyfdx

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  • stretchsjestretchsje Member Posts: 700
    Can you please explain the "translation"?

    I estimated 15% drivetrain loss.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    The TSX 6-spd made 171hp and 153lbft torque to the wheels, bone stock with 1700 miles on the engine. Torque had quite a peak between 2500-5000rpm, yet dropped off earlier than you might expect.

    The numbers appear to suggest that the crank rating of peak torque may be 172 lb.-ft (as in Japan) with the same peak power (200 HP).

    As far as quick drop off of torque at higher rpm is concerned, the evidence is in the power output. Between 6000 and 6800 rpm, the power gain is only 15 HP, so it is a wider power curve instead of a higher power curve. With slightly more torque at high engine speed, the engine could have an additional 10-20 HP.

    The BMW 325i with only 184hp and 175lbs-ft of torque can do 0-60mph in 7 seconds flat. Can the TSX beat this time? I don't think so. See MotorWeek's review.

    And what if it does in another? One road test does not tell everything. I have seen 7.4s for 325 in some tests, and 6.9s in others, so there will be variances. TSX has the potential to make the run in 6.8-7.0 s. That said, I would be interested in two performance numbers measured: 0-40 and 5-60.

    The A4, while having 30 less hp than the TSX, felt torqier at low to mid rpms, probably due to actually more torque (166 ft-lbs) being available from 1950 rpm on up--equal to the torque PEAK of the TSX.

    Was this a manual-to-manual comparison, or auto-to-auto? With manual, TSX should feel torquier because the gearing is tighter and torque output is not too far apart. With automatic, Acura was less aggressive in terms of gearing, possibly to get better ‘mileage’ results. Acura should have used a little more aggressive gearing (as it does in RSX) with the auto.

    But then, I have seen people complain about high revs and need for tall gearing, so I guess that part is addressed with the auto.

    The Audi and BMW also come with free scheduled maintenance for 48 months/50,000 miles.

    What is the cost of maintenance over the time? What is covered?
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    Does anyone have a link to a site showing hp/torque curves? I know, I'm dreaming, but I had to ask anyway.
  • ecoeco Member Posts: 23
    In Canada, the cost for 80000km (included in the price for Audi) is $1314.5 including PST and GST (sales tax). Assuming 20000km/year (which is what is covered by maintenance) and including first two appointment which are free in Canada, it averages $27.38 per month including tax.
  • gearhead10gearhead10 Member Posts: 84
    325i: The variances for 0-60 times are typically about 0.5 sec test to test. That said, BMW publishes a time of 7.1 but they are usually conservative. Their published time of 6.4 for the much more often tested 330i has been bested by mags by 0.2 - 0.4 secs. I would agree with you that 5-60 numbers for all tests would be much more useful to potential owners who don't want to abuse their cars.

    My A4 - TSX comparison was with MT's. A4 is geared pretty low in 1st also and it was my subjective "feel" while driving it. Didn't do any 0-40 timed sprints with salesman in car.

    Maintenance for Audis is just basic oil/filters/checkups every 10K miles for first 50K--nothing that should be the deciding factor for someone on the fence. Warranty covers everything except tires. Bigger incentive is the 1.9% financing they're offering. Be nice if Acura matched that (just trying to help you guys out here)=D
  • uncledaviduncledavid Member Posts: 548
    As for the BMW 325i, I think everybody here will agree that vehicle is superior to both the A4 and TSX in most (and perhaps all) respects. But, that isn't the point, the BMW costs a lot more and is going to be far more expensive to maintain. CR rates the BMW 325i "below average" in reliability and the high costs of parts and routine servicing is well known. I could easily afford the BMW, but I opted to go a different direction because I didn't want an unreliable vehicle.

    As for the A4, I drove it extensively. I did not find it one bit more fun to drive, and disagree with the suggestion that it has more torque in the middle. Also, the power delivery in the TSX is more linear (no turbo lag). Overall, I think you'll see similar levels of acceleration in the two vehicles. I think the A4 has a slightly nicer interior, and the ride is better.

    My take on the TSX: It will not accelerate, handle, or ride nearly as well as the BMW. It doensn't have as nice an interior as the A4. The A4 also has a certain European charm that the TSX will never match (my totally subjective impression). But, the TSX will offer many of the advantages of both those vehicles, with Honda's reliablity and low upkeep.

    The TSX is a car you can purchase and keep for 10 years (as I did with my Accord Cpe EX). The A4 and BMW are cars you lease, and walk away from before they become liabilities.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    A website as a repository of dyno plots (chassis and/or engine) would be nice. Honda typically publishes its engine dyno as a part of "factbook" section in its JDM website. Then there are other resources like dynospotracing.com that have a few dyno plots.

    Here is the dyno on TSX mentioned earlier.
  • suavechavosuavechavo Member Posts: 39
    I finally got a chance to see the TSX in person and sadly I was a little disappointed. They only had a few on the lot and I have yet to actually drive it. One of them was a black TSX equipped w/ a spoiler package and different alloys that made it look terrible. They also had a red one w/ tan leather that looked pretty good, but some parts of the interior did look a little cheap. Also, there doesn't seem to be a price difference between the auto and the 6 speed. I wonder if resale would force me to choose the auto, which I really don’t want. My sister though, who is a huge Honda fan, would have loved this car. But, she bought a Pilot instead a few months ago. I do think that I would probably choose the Bimmer, Audi, Passat, or the S60 over the TSX, but since I haven’t driven it yet, I can't really say. Also, those cars are much more $$. I hope does it drive great cause it seems like a great bargain for the price. Also, w/its long list of standard features its pretty hard not to consider it.
  • ptrekkerptrekker Member Posts: 51
    But, that isn't the point, the BMW costs a lot more and is going to be far more expensive to maintain.

    Not really. While the up front costs are higher, there are maintenance costs only after the first 50k. For the first 50k it costs - zip - to maintain. Obviously, though the maintenance is priced in.

    I realize this is the TSX forum, but I was so hot on that car. I liked it more than the A4, 9-3 but then I drove the BMW.
  • wmquanwmquan Member Posts: 1,817
    Is the interval similar to other Acura vehicles? I've had an Integra and now an MDX, and it's always interesting to see how expensive maintenance can get if you use the dealer and go by the "severe conditions" schedule. Of course, I think some dealers try to scare some customers into following the "severe" schedule when they don't really need it (which makes visits about twice as frequent). The manual states pretty clearly what the conditions are.
  • ptrekkerptrekker Member Posts: 51
    That's been my biggest beef with Honda/Acura:

    While the cars are relatively trouble free, when you do go in for scheduled maintenance they try to hit you for a lot. Even worse is that the dealer where I bought my honda makes you wait on line for 6 hours to get in the shop -- then wait 6 hours for your oil to be changed.
  • wmquanwmquan Member Posts: 1,817
    My Acura dealership's service department is quite good. Sometimes some services have taken longer than expected, but when we complained, they entered that into our file and it seems to have improved. So long as we schedule in advance, they'll give us a loaner even for a short oil change (a four-door Integra, or, nowadays, an RSX).

    The pricing of their service is definitely on the high side, unfortunately. It's pretty similar to what the Mercedes-Benz and Lexus dealerships charge around here, though perhaps a few percent lower. Just going from the Honda label to the Acura one seems to make them think they can charge significantly more for their services. To be fair, this dealership is located in the most upscale area of all the Acura dealerships around here.

    My comment about the "severe conditions" maintenance schedule does require some thought. The manual lists conditions that happen to everyone -- stop-and-go with a lot of idling, severe weather, frequent short trips, etc. But the key is that the manuals says that you drive mostly under those conditions, as opposed to just occasionally (who doesn't hit stop-and-go traffic at least once in a while nowadays?).

    Some of the Acura dealerships try to push you into the severe maintenance schedule by saying, "well, you know traffic is bad here, so you do stop-and-go, so you should go to the severe schedule." That basically makes service visits every 3,750 miles instead of 7,500, and makes the annual services significantly more expensive.

    Of course, if one does their own basic maintenance or has it done outside of the dealership, you can cut your costs. Realistically, the old-fashioned idea of changing your oil every 3k miles is dated.
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    #2132 not trying to criticize you, but I owned a BMW for 3 years and they are expensive. Anything that is not cvered under warranty is expensive. For example, there was a low spoiler and if you drove up to a forward parking curb it rubbed and had to be replaced, $240. The maintenace covers the oil intervals when the light comes on at 10,000 miles pproximately; you change the oil an filter more often. Wiring to a light got shorted $75 to fix. It goes on and on. On the other hand I had an Acura for 85,000 miles and only had to replace a slave cylinder on the clutch $300. Pretty good for 6 1/2 years.
  • 3449gabi3449gabi Member Posts: 5
    is every 5,000 miles under harsh/severe conditions and every 10,000 for normal. I have to say that I looked at those cars when I was shopping and the A4-1.8T does not do anything for me and the interior doesn't look any better unless you go to the convertible, the climate controls and some other functions are to low and controls are too small, or may be is that my partner had a 2001 VW VR6 that he got rid of it in 22 months and at that moment they use to look more similar than today. Also what about the head room and the rear leg space and no navi available wich in my case was a-plus in getting a new car. But I am not going to bash BMW, it's that I could not justify(afford) to spend around 33,700 for the 325 and not even have the option to get leather or a 6 cd changer and a premium sound system unless you spend even more money in a Harmon Kardon stereo. And my experience with the G35 loaner(3 times) when I had my G20 was not so good, these two cars are not as quiet and every time you accelerate in the case of the G35 auto my head will feel as is somebody was shifting. Why do I want to have so much power if I only going to use it 5-15% of the time. I think the more H.P. you have in your last car the more you probably want in the next one, 75,79,and my old G20 145, now with the TSX I have 200. May be the next one I will want 250. I just can't understand how some of you guys that have a car in the 127-160 H.P. range bash the TSX because it doesn't have to much power. First you guys must not commute or just use the car only to go to the lake or the beach on the weekends. And for some of you that can afford them, good. I am sure it must be nice to have one of them in your garage. This may sound kind of silly but it feels good to drive this car and I'm sure that if you own any of the other ones you will feel the same way. You will always find something in that car that is going make you smile.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    While the Z was entertaining it was just too much car to drive every day. I enjoyed the Intregra more. I now drive a 95 GS300 daily. It's slow but I love it. We also have a 94 LS400 and an 03 Accord EX-L 5MT coupe. I'd rather drive my Gee. It all comes down to what you want to drive. The comparisons can be made all day long but when you stand back and look at it, all of these cars are mostly the same overall.
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    they also had an accord v6 doing 0-60 in 8.0 seconds while almost everybody else was in the 7.0 second range.
  • eechoseechos Member Posts: 2
    Does anybody know the OEM part number for the Oil Filter in the TSX...??
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    Your Acura service department knows.
  • eechoseechos Member Posts: 2
    they told me they aren't allowed to give parts numbers out...
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    Ask your salesperson to get you the number. Tell them you expect it as service after the sale.
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    If they still won't give you the info, you could always call/e-mail Hoehn Acura in San Diego -- they offer wholesale pricing on Acura parts (I've purchased lots of stuff from them in the past at prices well below my local dealer's).

    http://www.hoehnacura.com

    They could give you the p/n, or you could just order some filters from them.

    I'd be willing to bet the TSX uses the same filter that the Accord uses, in which case you could get a good deal on them at

    http://www.manchesterhonda.com

    They're good guys, too.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    "I'd be willing to bet the TSX uses the same filter that the Accord uses"

    I think so, too. Maybe that's why Acura dealers can't afford to release the part #, especially when Fram's already got them.
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    Another thought,

    When I had an Acura Integra GSR and wanted factory service I usually went to the Honda dealer and the price was about 1/2. Acura charge a lot for the free loaner car :(
  • bszetobszeto Member Posts: 24
    Answering Mazda6s' posting on #2078 and robertsmx:

    That's why the old Audi A4 and current VW Passat 2.8V6 is so good when it comes to helping the car achieve balanced handling. It has 190 hp and 206 lb. ft of torque...a little low compared to Altima, Accord, and the Camry's new VVT-i V6, but compared to those three cars, there's no torque steer, and the engine is still quite quiet. Just my 0.02
  • uncledaviduncledavid Member Posts: 548
    I just traded in my HOnda on a new TSX. I intend to do all of my oil changes, etc at the Honda dealer. The Honda dealer here took great care of my Accord and he has already said he can do oil change etc on the TSX. Even the Acura dealer acknowledged that the parts were identical.
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    I agree, a 2.8L V6 would have perfect for the TSX.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    In some reviews, Passat V6 suffers with the same stigma that Accord V6 suffers compared to the four cylinder counterparts. "More nimble" and better handling is associated with the trims having the lighter engine.

    That said, if V6 is a must have, one should get Accord V6 for less, or TL for a little more than TSX. Options are available from Honda/Acura anyway.

    TSX w/V6 would be atleast 100 lb heavier, and $2K more expensive (unless Acura decided to strip off some standard features). In other words, a car like the TL for the same price.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    I had the exact opposite experience with a Toyota Celica. Alternators, battery replacements, water pumps, radiator, rusted body, windshield spray system stopped working, broken seat belt latch. 3 Nissans in a row, no failures but many niggling problems for 6 years. Contrast this to my BMW, 1st visit to the dealer at 15K in a little under a year, only out of pocket costs were the alarm system. Bumper to bumper full warranty and maintence. Of course, this is built into the price. So while I agree in general Japanese cars are more reliable, I haven't seen it in many years of ownership, from Toyota, Honda and Nissan. My Ford was more reliable then these cars.
  • 6t66t6 Member Posts: 3
    I have 2 questions;
    (1)I may have missed it in all the postings, but has anyone seen figures on how many feet the TSX takes to brake from 60 to 0? I saw in CR that the Accord EX V6 took about 146', which is a bit long - does the TSX use the same brakes and have a similar stopping distance?
    (2) I've always stayed away from black seats because they were so unbearable in the summer, but the TSX black interiors look best to me. Does the perforated leather and what Acura calls "heat rejecting" tinted glass make a significant difference?
  • wmquanwmquan Member Posts: 1,817
    MotorWeek measured the Accord V6 60-0 as 133 feet, the TSX's as 126 feet. Those tests were performed with the same methodology but were separated by several months so there could have been some influence from test conditions.
  • uncledaviduncledavid Member Posts: 548
    I have the TSX with the Carbon (grey) interior. I feel that it is a reasonable compromise between the Black and Parchment (tan) interiors. Black seemed like it might get hot, and parchment would get dirty and scuffed up too easily. I really like the way the Carbon looks as well.

    But, in answer to your question, my car hasn't seemed to get too hot inside. The tinted glass helps. The moonroof tilts up,and you leave it open a crack to let hot air out in the summer. It hasn't been very hot out here (I live in Los Angeles) yet, although sunny all the time.

    I've never had leather seats in a car before. But, my guess is that the perforated seats don't help that much. The seats are designed to give you support in sharp turns. All that bolstering on the sides prevents too much airflow to your back.
  • jthokiejthokie Member Posts: 2
    I live in Georgia (so its hot!) and I have the black TSX interior. I haven't really noticed it being any hotter than any other car I've ever gotten in during those 90-degree days. I think the factory tinting helps... In any case, I agree that the black interior looks the best.
  • manualtransmanualtrans Member Posts: 10
    Does anyone else who has purchased a TSX, had splash guards come factory installed or dealer installed? I really hate the splash guards on the TSX and have pleaded with my dealer to NOT install them on my TSX that's coming in 3 days.

    I was just curious if anyone was able to uninstall the splash guards and cover up the holes that would leave in the wheel/fender area. I plan to unistall mine if they do come installed from Japan on the TSX.

    I have seen TSXs with and without splash guards and think that the ones without look much more classy and appealing. You never see BMWs or MBs with splash guards. I don't want them on my TSX.

    Please help me if you know anything about this. Thanks.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    That should be easy, if a dealer has to install splash guards on their cars let them have the car. I've never heard of such a practice. Telling them once that you don't want them should suffice.

    M
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
  • uncledaviduncledavid Member Posts: 548
    Splashguards, wheel locks, cargo net in the trunk, foglights, and cargo tray in the trunk are all dealer installed options. I find that a bit annoying because this stuff should be included when you spend that king of dough on a car.

    Oh well. Just make sure you get the dealer to throw it all in at deal time.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    I'm still waiting for the dealer to call with a 6 speed for me to try out. at this point the G35 6 speed is winning my heart (but i must wait for the 04s so i can get a color i like). if the tsx wows me with its handling and if it has more take at-speed take-off than my slow-as-a-snail jetta 1.8T 5 speed, it'll win me over.
  • ultimaultima Member Posts: 96
    Sorry... I just got that review in my email, so I thought it was new.

    By the way, I have driven the G35 -- if it's OOMPH you're looking for, then you will NOT be disappointed with the G35 -- it ROCKS!

    Note, however, the G35 will not hold its value as well as an Acura, there will be a substantial gas mileage difference from a 4-cyl to a 6-cyl, but given the G35 is rear-wheel drive, it does perform better for the enthusiest.

    Also, I believe both the TSX and the G35 require premium fuel (but I could be wrong) and believe the reviews I've read indicate the TSX has a nicer interior -- but again, have not tested a TSX myself yet.
  • uncledaviduncledavid Member Posts: 548
    although I think the engine will run fine on regular without that much loss in performance.

    The interior is a lot nicer on the TSX, but the power and torque down low is not in the same league as the G35.
  • parker19parker19 Member Posts: 59
    factor in cost, upkeep, reliability, features, etc .... which would you buy?

    I love the g35 but something tells me after the luster wears off of how great this car drives I would be happier with an easier to maintain acura
  • uncledaviduncledavid Member Posts: 548
    First, I should acknowledge that I faced this very choice a few weeks ago. I decided to get the Acura. So, I am biased.

    Its hard to say. Infiniti builds a very reliable vehicle and the VQ series of engines is proven. Infiniti dealers also offer better service than Acura (Acura dealers don't always offer loaner cars, for example). The handling and acceleration are great on the G35 and I lovethe exterior looks.

    In the end, I decided not to get the G35 because I hated the interior. The materials seem cheap, and there are losts of ergonomic gotchas (but again, this is my opinion only, many others like the interior on the Infiniti).

    Acura is only bring over 15,000 TSXs this year. I'm sure the resale vale will be excellent. It should be reliable as hell. IMO, it is a much more comfortable car and the interior is really, really nice. It handles extremely well for a FWD but I find the ride to be a little on the harsh side (others may disagree). I know it has a four-banger, but the acceleration and power around town seem more than adequate.

    The Acura is a lot cheaper, true. But, Infinitis can be had for decent discounts and you do get a larger more powerful car if you go with the G35. So, I don't think the Acura is a better VALUE - just less expensive overall.

    In the end, I went for the Acura because I liked the interior a lot better, and have had nothing but good experiences with Honda products. But, the G35 might offer more bang for the buck. If acceleration and power are more important to you than interior comfort and fit-and-finish, the Infiniti is definitely the better way to go.
  • hunter001hunter001 Member Posts: 851
    The G35 is rated as a good value among cars that compete with the BMW 330i etc., and is the only car considered by many, to be a true competitor to the BMW, from Infiniti. No other Infiniti is rated as a HOT product, unlike the G35. Even a year or so after its introduction, it still sells very close to MSRP....which will indicate how well it will hold its value in the long term. All other Infinitis sell for close to invoice.

    I distinctly noted that some of the materials employed within its interior, could be improved upon, which essentially means that the developmental dollars of that vehicle, went to developing its RWD drivetrain. The car is rated as a bargain for what it is sold at.

    Later...AH
  • uncledaviduncledavid Member Posts: 548
    In Los Angeles, dealers are routinely discounting the G35 for several thousand dollars. That may impact on resale value down the road, but also makes the car a great deal.

    As for the interior, I don't like it but others do. It could be argued that materials on the inside are low quality, but some Infiniti ownwers would not agree. In the end, even that is a question of personal tastes.
  • hunter001hunter001 Member Posts: 851
    Are the G35 coupes discounted in the LA region too ? I hear something different !

    Later...AH
This discussion has been closed.