I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

stever

"E" as in elongated I suppose?

Steve
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wevk

I was in back of a 70 Hemi-Cuda a couple of days ago.
(it had "Hemi" scrolled on the back flanks) Real poor
idle at the lights. The driver was goosing it at about 40 mph breaking the tires loose each time. Had to rollup my windows due to the haze of unburnt hydrocarbons spewing forth from the exhausts.

Not obscure but it's not a car you see rolling down the road, under it's own power, every day.

speedshift

You should have saved and labelled some of those unburned hydrocarbons--they'll be collectible some day ;-).

A Hemi definitely has its own sound, barely restrained, like it could go dashing off in several directions at once.

Mr_Shiftright

A "real" '70 Hemi Cuda is actually quite rare by American standards, and quite valuable, again by American standards.

There are so many clones and fakes out there, though, that one has to wonder if someone really is out there abusing a genuine $60,000 Cuda on public roads.

But then again, all beasts need their exercise.

speedshift

450 hp isn't a stock hp rating so that number is a little suspect without more information.

Why a 'Cuda over a Viper? The 'Cuda has a lot more mystique to a certain generation of geezers.

I know the Viper is a serious car but I have a hard time taking it seriously. It's cartoonish and sounds like a UPS truck on steroids.

Okay the 'Cuda is a little cartoonish too, kind of a study hall rendition of a '69 Camaro, and it's way too wide to be a ponycar. I'll take my hemi in a Road Runner.

Mr_Shiftright

Collectors tend to buy their dreams, it's true. For a 50 year old geezer it is muscle cars. Perhaps the 12 year old growing up today will want a Viper.

mtypex--I doubt there will be any SVXs around when you are 50, any more than you are going to find a '79 Celica very easily now.

Besides, SVX are cheap right now, just go buy one while you can if you like them. Now's the only chance you'll have. Maybe $6000-7,000 and you're into a really nice one. And buy all the spare parts you can find.

But since they aren't worth restoring at $7,000 book value, nor will they increase in value as time goes on, most will disappear except a few babied originals kept on the curiousity self. Another problem is very slim aftermarket for parts.

Cars need to be accumulating value as they grow older, not getting cheaper, or they will vanish unfortunately.

Lotsa people don't "get" this basic principle, and wake up in ten years and say "Hey, where are all the ______? I really wanted one!"

(e.g., early Datsun 510 two door 4-speed. SCCA racers got them all and cut 'em up)

a_l_hubcaps

"I doubt there will be any SVXs around when you are 50, any more than you are going to find a '79 Celica very easily now."

But you can find a '77 Celica. That's my brother's...it has since been repainted in the original bronze color. I haven't uploaded the "after" photos yet.

-Andrew L

speedshift

Here's a rule I've tried to follow all my car-owning life: never own a car that goes "blap blap".

sphinx99

a_l_hubcaps,

Looks like you're having quite a bit of fun... and it's looking nice!

a_l_hubcaps

sphinx99-

Thanks for the compliment. I just posted the new pics showing it after the repaint.

-Andrew L

sphinx99

That looks like a lot of fun! If you don't mind my asking, what was the cost and time involved in the restoration? This is the sort of thing I've always wanted to do, but I haven't known where to start.

magnetophone

Verozahl, I don't understand why these cars are so great. I see them all the time (240SX's). I even see the converibles every now and then.

Mr_Shiftright

Well if you want these cars, better get them now, they are disappearing fast due to their low value. . A '77 Celica has the lowest value of any car in the CPI price guide which is a sure sign of near-extinction. Hurry!

a_l_hubcaps

sphinx99-

First of all, it's important to note that we are not restoring the Celica to perfect showroom condition. It is going to be my brother's daily driver and not a show car. So, for example, we used Bondo to fix the rust rather than the proper method of welding in patches, and the paint job was from Maaco rather than a more upscale shop. The cost of restoring a car varies a lot depending on how far you want to go.

With that said, my brother paid $1000 for the car originally, as shown in the first photos on the page. It was driveable, but needed a lot of work to be a reliable runner. We did most of the mechanical work ourselves, paying only for parts. The only mechanical job that was done professionally was the brake system, which cost a few hundred for new rotors, pads, wheel cylinders, etc.

As for the body work, we spent $250 to get the frame straightened at a shop, and about $100 on junkyard parts to replace those that were damaged. The sanding, rust repair, priming and reassembly were all done by us (this takes a lot of time and patience). The paint job cost about $400. So, altogether, I'd estimate that the total cost of this project including the cost of the car was around $2500 or so.

-Andrew L

bretfraz

And talk about a rarity! I see more SS Chevelles and GTOs than I do one of those.

My mom bought a Celica GT new in 1978 after riding in a Celica like yours. I wanted her to get the Datsun B210 but my mom was swayed my the Motor Trend Import Car of the Year award the Toyota won. In hindsight the Celica was tons better than the Datsun but what did I know........ I was 13 at the time.

As a kid growing up in So Calif you got used to seeing all sorts of odd little Japanese cars that simply didn't exist in the rest of the nation. Datsun F10, 210, 310, 510, 610, 710, and 810s, Dodge/Plymouth (Mitsubishi) Colts, Toyota Coronas, Mazda Rx-3 and Cosmos, Chevy (Isuzu) LUV, Ford (Mazda) Courier, etc, etc. All prowling the streets of the San Fernando Valley in the 70s and 80s.

jrosasmc

My dad also bought a Celica GT liftback new in 1978. That was the car that started his love of imports; he loved it so much he kept it for ten years until the body rusted off (we live in Vermont). He traded it in on a 1987 Chevrolet Nova (Corolla) which we still have to this day. Those Toyotas do run forever, but you can't control the rust.

Mr_Shiftright

They were good little cars, but like you say, not much in the sheet metal department. But you got a good car for not much money.

magnetophone

I guess it's because Texas is not as cold as "up there", but I still see older Celicas. I saw a Corona wagon this weekend. Datsun 810's are common- the very smallest Datsuns I never see.

A few years ago, probably 4 or 5, I saw a Datsun convertible with a white hard top and a red body. It looked like a boxy Alfa Romeo spider - it was really a nice looking car. I couldn't see if it had a designation, but the car couldn't have been newer than like 1972. Any guesses?

speedshift

1600 or 2000 would be my guess. A boxier interpretation of the '60s sportscar look. The 2000 was very hip back in the day because it had five(!) speeds and IIRC a twin cam engine.

bretfraz

Is what that little roadster was. I remember them well as I had a neighbor who owned two of them back when I was a kid.

Have a look at them here:

http://www.datsun.org/roadster/default.html

sphinx99

Wow, I need to get out west.

In Detroit (salt city) you never see old Japanese cars. I see a decent number of mid-to-late 80s Preludes and (more rarely) similar vintage Accords and Civics, but that's it, and all of those are in advanced states of rusting. I don't think I've seen older Toyotas or Datsuns on the road, ever, except at the Woodward Dream Cruise, of course. Of the older Japanese cars, the first run of Acura Legends seem to have survived the Detroit salt best, but even those experience severe rusting problems. Ditto a number of American makes. Only old Buick and old Mercedes sedan boats seem to have survived the salt, although the Buicks lose their paint and the Mercedes lose their trim.

Get a working '70s Celica and drive it in the summer in Michigan, and you'll be driving a car that's probably more rare than a Ferrari.

jrosasmc

What about older '70s or '80s Volvos? Do they survive Detroit winters well?

a_l_hubcaps

There was a Peter Egan R&T column once, when he described moving to one of the big salt states (Wisconsin? Help me here, Shiftright, you work for the magazine :-) ). I remember he said that the chrome exhaust tips on his Mazda "became streaked with rust. That was just before they fell off."

I live in NJ, which has a fair amount of road salt, but I guess it's not as bad as the Michigan area. The Maaco paint on my Pontiac has survived two winters without rusting out, and we all know about Maaco's reputation.

-Andrew L

speedshift

He lives in Wisconsin now. I think he grew up there.

I guess Michigan's rust-out tradition goes back a long way. My father kept his Nash on the road (what's a Nash?) by bondo-ing my mother's old nylons over the rust holes.

I vividly remember us buying a one-year-old '57 Chrysler Saratoga that was already starting to rust in the rockers. The salesman wrote "rust here" on the front passenger door over the rust (I guess so a bodyshop could fill the holes) and for some reason I thoought this made the car and us very special. I still remember the feeling of superiority I had on the drive home.

Mr_Shiftright

Yes, Peter lives in Wisconsin, which is like Pakistan to me, I know very little about it.

It's the salt, sure but also when the cars get hit or the engines blow, they get scrapped because of the low resale value. This does in many more old cars than just rust does I think. They never get a second chance to live because of the economics involved.

It's hard for any late 70s car to get respect, much less get saved from demolition.

magnetophone

Since it only snows here maybe once a year, twice or three times in Dallas, there is no salt on the roads. I believe when the overpasses ice over, they use sand.

magnetophone

In fact, I really don't know what "rusting" really looks like. I lived in Seattle and Austin for most of my life... and in Seattle it doesn't snow often either. I have seen some rust on the lower panels of some cars, like holes maybe the size of a baseball at most. Does a completely rusted car have rust larger than that?

Mr_Shiftright

Sometimes the frames actually break in half on the old ladder-type construction, and on unibodies the rusted floorpans and box structures will sag so much you can't open or close the doors.

On "frameless" cars like a Porsche 911, if the rust gets into the body structure and/or suspension anchoring points, you can just throw the car away, there is no fixing it.

andre1969

...and one thing I remembered was that your typical 1977-era Impala or Caprice looked better than your typical late '80's anything. Why? The cars rusted so badly that the only way to keep them on the road and looking halfway decent was to keep repainting them and doing body work every few years!

The typical '77 Impala might've had a repaint or two on it by '93, where a late '80's car would be looking bad, and just about ready for its first.

kevin111

Do they sell the A-series in Mexico?

magnetophone

I don't believe so, but I have heard several rumors that it will be sold here. I have heard reports of them showing up in the Boston area. One thing is for sure, though, it will not be the current generation, which has had a bad reputation for crashworthiness and the ability to be blown over in high winds.

checkme

My wife saw the A-Class during her recent trip to Mexico City, so there is reason to believe that it is sold there.

ghulet

...I saw one of these, except it was an yellow-orange color:

http://adcache.collectorcartraderonline.com/10/4/2/35119042.htm

magnetophone

Is it worth $4,200? A 2001 Fiat Marea 5-cylinder wagon with leather isn't even worth $4,200.

ghulet

...the car is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. I could sure think of cars I'd rather spend $4200 on for sure, especially given the car's dangerously small size.

Mr_Shiftright

If it's not a rust bucket, it is definitely worth $4,200, if it is truly "excellent". Even more than that if it's really sharp. Possibly up to $6,000.

Micro-cars are a very hot market, but they have to be very sanitary and in good working order.

speedshift

I drove a SEAT 600(?) in Spain in 1972. Is it the same car?

andys120

The Fiat 500 was Italy's Model A (if the Topolino was the Model T), the car that put post-war Italy on wheels.

Mr_Shiftright

The 500 is a two cylinder air cooled and the 600 is a 4 cylinder water cooled.

The car to have is the 650 Fiat Abarth. Real fun up to 50 mph or so.

Perfect car to keep at that little 5,000 sq ft. beach cottage in the Hamptons, don't you know.

jrosasmc

Saw a Lancia Scorpion for sale on Ebay a couple of nights ago. How rare are these cars, and how good are they?

andys120

they are pretty unusual now, most of them rusted out or sucumbed to numerous quality control problems.

Like many Italian cars they are probably nice to drive but you don't want to own one. IIRC it was concieved as a successor to the Fiat X 1/9.

It was sold in Europe as the Lancia Beta, suceeding a much prettier design.

andys120

Aren't they pretty rare? Only 3-4k sold or something like that? It looked like a black F-150 with thin white stripes along the sides of the stepside bed. Is that supposed to be wood?

A truck that asks more questions than it answers.

andre1969

...only 1808 Blackwoods were sold. They did sell 522 in August though, so maybe they got lucky and sold another 500 in Sept, and 500 in Oct, so maybe they're up to 3000.

I haven't seen one yet though. There's a local Lincoln-Mercury-Mazda dealership that has 6 Marauders sitting on its lot...I'm sure they've got a Blackwood stashed somewhere!

andys120

I have yet to see a Marauder.

bretfraz

They had their "Mountain Moonshine Festival" over the weekend. Lots of old (30s-40s) dirt track cars and the most black 1940 Ford coupes I've ever seen in my life. Must have been 50 of them there. Those old shine runner cars are ultra-cool.

Plenty of early NASCAR race cars on display. Even got to meet Junior Johnson who was the Grand Marshal for the parade.

idletask

And given that the automobile crowd is way different than in the US, the most odd car I've seen on the road recently was a Chevrolet Trailblazer.

Living 30 miles away from Deauville, where all Parisian bourgeois come for the weekend, you can see some pearls by there too. For example, Morgan Aero, De Tomaso Pantera, Citroën SM, Peugeot 504 coupe, Matra Rancho... And if you happen to lurk by there in what they call the Rallye International de Deauville, a <beep>load of cars from the 20s to the 70s. Impressive to see how many of these cars still exist, and in good shape, moreover. Of particular notice last year was a Lamborghini Miura, a BMW Isetta (which I simply cannot believe its owner drove it from Paris to there... See http://www.cqql.net/bmw.htm) and a Peugeot 403 Cabriolet (yes, Columbo's car).

Mr_Shiftright

The French love their old cars but they do not overrestore them like Americans do. Many of their old cars have a nice patina to them.

jrosasmc

Now is this why many old Renaults, Peugeots and the like can survive in their native country and not here, where they were disasters?

checkme

So that's what that is! My local BMW dealership has an Isetta in the showroom. I have always wondered what it was.

argent

This morning I saw a Stutz Blackhawk, one of the weird-[non-permissible content removed] "modern" Stutz cars produced in the 70s and 80s by James O'Donnell (see http://members.fortunecity.com/stutzblackhawk/ecompany.htm for pictures). In proportions it's similar to my neighbor's '69 Lincoln Mark III, with headlights and fender flares from a 70s Pontiac Grand Prix (on which it was probably based -- the 70s Blackhawks began as Grand Prixs), a "Squarebird" style roof, and a Continental spare tire ala early-sixties Chrysler. (It WAS, apparently, based on a design by Virgil Exner, who was responsible for the "toilet seat" Continental tire cutout on Chrysler products.) It was lipstick red, and really amazingly tacky.

 

The other day I also saw the bizarre sight of a RED DeLorean -- yes, the car had been painted -- wearing diplomatic plates, no less. Ah, the joys of Los Angeles.