unless they cut the price in half (spoiler alert: they didn't) it never had a chance.
I built one yesterday (since was looking at the color chart) and if you get a coupe, and skip the $6,700 Z51 package (some good stuff, but summer tires), and keep the accessories to a minimum, you are still at about $67k (probably before shipping). So even if you can buy at sticker, with tax/tags it is impossible to get one below the low $70s. And that is a lot of scratch for a toy, so not many 30 YOs are going to be in the market.
I think that thanks to the price, the Corvette is always going to be an "old man's car", because for the most part they're the only ones who can afford one! Even though the car is a bargain, for what all it does, it's still basically a trophy, a toy, an indulgence, or whatever you want to label it. And younger people, no matter how badly they might want one, usually just don't have that kind of money.
I've tended to consider the Corvette as sort of a "midlife crisis" car, starting at some point in the '68-82 generation. I think that image sticks with me because I always picture Larry Tate driving one, in the later episodes of "Bewitched".
I dunno when midlife crisis is supposed to hit, though. I'm about to turn 52. I keep fantasizing about a new Hemi Charger, but I'm at the point now where I'm starting to realize it's later than I think, and, to quote Mama's Family, perhaps it's time to sing or get off the pot! So maybe a Charger is going to be my midlife crisis car?
I've always had a (negative) thing about cars as phallic symbols; I really never like image branding or labels, on any product, ever. Probably due to my lower-middle-class/at best middle-class upbringing, in fact I have tended to goof on those things.
Now, the Corvette is a phallic symbol car, or at least can be. But I love the American-ness of it, that it's been built for almost 70 years, and that its place in the lineup hasn't been moved around and watered down (no four-door or SUV named Corvette, LOL). On the current car, I think the engineering is pretty amazing (I detest the term 'world class'). But on the 'phallic symbol' thing, I guess I just have to keep telling myself, "It's a Chevy".
On the 2022 orange C8 I looked at at the Cleveland Auto Show, I remember the base price prior to destination charge was $60,900. I saw Camaros that were maybe $11K less than that, but to me that's a way less-appealing car. MHO only.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
A friend had an '06 Z06 coupe. With a stick. It was amazing. He was an old man, and always drove Vettes for the last 25 years of his life. But, he also liked the performance models.
All of those exoticars (I include the current Vette in that now despite being far less expensive) attract a certain sort of buyer, and not just those who can afford to buy one. It takes something else, a certain kind of mindset, desire to be seen, to prove to others they've made it, whatever. Around here we have a lot of techbros and financial types raking in the dough and many of them have Lambos, Ferarris, Audi R8s, you name it. They may be younger than the stereotypical Corvette buyer, but really they are of the same personality, just younger.
I think most older Corvette buyers (MHO only) always wanted one when they were younger, and couldn't afford one for many, many years. The buyers you mention, Greg, would most-likely scoff and look down their nose at a Corvette (or anything American). That's another thing I like about Corvette--it's a 'thumb your nose' to guys of that ilk, LOL.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
In 1983 I looked at a 1974 Corvette- a 454 stick. Ended up going with the 1973 Bavaria, which I had been enamored with since it was introduced in 1971. I think Corvettes are great cars- I have several friends who own one or two- but they have never been on my "Gotta have it!" list. I prefer 2+2 coupes; if I was going to get a 2 seater it would either be an F-Type, a 911, or a Cayman S- although I came THIS close to buying an Elise...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I think most older Corvette buyers (MHO only) always wanted one when they were younger, and couldn't afford one for many, many years. The buyers you mention, Greg, would most-likely scoff and look down their nose at a Corvette (or anything American). That's another thing I like about Corvette--it's a 'thumb your nose' to guys of that ilk, LOL.
Probably true, though one of them just posted his newly-acquired Ford GT on Instagram. Hope he never finds out it was made in Canada.
That's right, and it was probably the same 30-40 years ago for Ferraris etc as well. There's also a cranky old man Porsche demographic that fits in somewhere, especially for limited edition 911s.
I think Corvettes can be cool, the C8 especially is a great value for what it is, although with housing and living costs, maybe less attainable for younger generations than ever. There's still a negative stereotype out there too, think C5 washed with a diaper, chrome wheels, maybe a lawn chair and time out doll for shows, owner has jorts/tucked in shirt/white sneakers/fanny pack/weird off-brand bluetooth headset from 2006 etc.
I'm effectively into middle age now, don't have much of an itch for a midlife crisis car, more concerned with keeping the oldie on the road and having a modern car that will be OK with local roads and weather.
All of those exoticars (I include the current Vette in that now despite being far less expensive) attract a certain sort of buyer, and not just those who can afford to buy one. It takes something else, a certain kind of mindset, desire to be seen, to prove to others they've made it, whatever. Around here we have a lot of techbros and financial types raking in the dough and many of them have Lambos, Ferarris, Audi R8s, you name it. They may be younger than the stereotypical Corvette buyer, but really they are of the same personality, just younger.
sadly, I think my late-middle aged (unless I plan to live until 120!) moment was a Maverick. Not quite a C8 or Porsche, but at least it did not break the bank.
If you go to FB and search ‘Corvette Furman’ and page down just a little, there are 25 pics of my friends and his brother and their cars which are sequential VIN’s. Story there too. Mike Furman was their salesman in Gaithersburg, MD. He’s the no. 1 Corvette salesman in the U.S. and has been selling them 42 years.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
sadly, I think my late-middle aged (unless I plan to live until 120!) moment was a Maverick. Not quite a C8 or Porsche, but at least it did not break the bank.
I guess if I add the 2 cars together (absurd total payments since I financed a bunch for a short term) once they are paid off, I could replace it with 1 payment for something really, really nice. That I would not really need, and would feel guilty getting, since it would be right about the same time that we retired and went onto a fixed income!
I suppose I could just go work for OF at Enterprise, and make whatever I take home from that be my car payment fund!
I was 35 when I bought my E24 M6. My only regret was selling it; that's why odds are that my next car will be a true ///M model- I'm not getting any younger.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
If it was 1981 and I was shopping a highline car, this would be an easy choice (admittedly a bit more expensive than the others):
I doubt I will have the midlife urge for a flashy or sporty car - I am not feeling it yet, and not getting any younger. The right G Wagen could be fun, and I like some configurations of the new Bronco, but even the latter is relatively reasonable. I've always appreciated something comfortable and unique/understated over loudly sporty and flashy.
Out of the three the Lincoln was probably the easiest to live with.
As long as you took seasickness pills for the wallowing ride and did not try to go around corners too fast.
I actually had an opportunity to drive a bustleback Seville a few times when it was new. My first job had what amounted to a COO for a while who had one. I mentioned part of this in a comment on Adam's video but will expand upon it here. I worked directly under him and for a while he was able to disguise his drinking problem although it later emerged and he departed in rather ugly fashion. He used to invite me to lunch for the sole purpose of driving him back to the office after he drank too much. The Seville had the V8-6-4 and in short-trip driving I believe it was always on 8 cylinders so I didn't notice any issue with it. It had the lightest and most vague power steering I had ever encountered, quite disquieting actually even for the times. Otherwise it drove nicely and was lovely inside except for the abundance of plasti-wood on the dash.
I think it was Motortrend, who did a comparison test of a 1980 Seville with the 368 (before the V8-6-4), a Mark VI with the 351, and a New Yorker 5th Avenue with a 318. I really don't remember much about the article, except that the Seville was the quickest, although both it and the Mark VI performed better than you'd think a 1980 car should. The poor New Yorker was a dog, in comparison. I've tried searching for that review online, but can't find it. However, one one of those lists that compiles old acceleration times, I was able to dig through and find this:
Seville: 0-60 in 10.5 seconds, 1/4 mile in 17.7 Mark VI: 0-60 in 10.9 seconds, 1/4 mile in 17.7 5th Ave: 0-60 in 14.1 seconds, 1/4 mile in 19.6
I can't remember which one Motortrend liked the best. I seem to recall it was one of those wishy-washy verdicts where they said they were all good in their own ways, and if one car had shortcomings, they came up with excuses for it. For example, the 5th Avenue would have been considerably cheaper than the other two, so they probably cut it some slack there. And having a smaller engine, they probably made some excuses for its sub-par performance.
On the flip side, though, MT probably tested most of these cars, the way they were most commonly equipped. Even though the Diesel was fairly common, and I think technically "standard" on the 1980 Seville, I'd imagine most had the 368. On the New Yorker, 49-state models had a 318-2bbl standard, with a 360-2bbl optional. California models only had a 318-4bbl. There was a 360-4bbl, but it was only used in police cars, as well as a handful of high performance Miradas and Cordobas. And, oddly, was offered in Puerto Rico, according to the EPA at least. Every once in awhile, I'll hear about an '80 New Yorker with a 360-4bbl, and the story is often the usual "someone who knew how to pull some strings at the factory", but I always suspect those.
With the Mark VI, I could imagine a good deal of those actually being equipped with the 351-2bbl. According to the EPA website, the 302 was actually fuel-injected in Lincolns for 1980. "Fuel injection" equates to "expensive" in my mind for back then, so I could see the 351 being a good value.
One last thing re.: Mike Furman, the Corvette salesman:
I'm always looking on FB's "All Original Cars" page. I was looking at a '65 Corvair Corsa, which I like a lot, that was recently bought by a poster there--although the car is in need of work. A "Mike Furman" posted there about it, and I clicked on his link and it's the same guy. He had posted on "All Original Cars" about his Nordic Blue '71 442 W-30 (no longer owns), and his '67 Corvette coupe. Nice to see he's an enthusiast, and not just a salesman. I saw someone post on the Corvette Forum that he tried three supposed "Corvette specialists" and that in two days, two hadn't called him back but Mike himself called him back within half-an-hour.
P.S. I'll admit always wanting to do the cliched Corvette-across-Route 66 thing. I imagine by now there's all types of things about where to stop/where not to stop along there. When I drove my daughter out to CA in 2019 we were on Route 66 by mistake for about one mile, in Tulsa, as the interstate went parallel to 66 for many, many miles. The idea of taking a cross-country trip off the interstate, and on no time schedule, is quite appealing to me. An episode of the TV show was filmed in a small town ten miles west of us, where the episode renamed the town name of Kinsman, OH to "Amity" for the episode. They said in the episode it was Ohio, and it was filmed just over the OH/PA border, but you didn't have to be a genius to know 66 doesn't go in OH.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
RE.: '81 luxury cars--I started my first real job in Sept. '80 and travelled 50% of the time. No one in my family was ever a luxury car buyer; most were kind-of proud that we were all entry-level buyers, LOL. I can remember my grandfather saying about his daughter's '67 LeSabre, "I don't even like it as well as mine ('67 Impala)", LOL.
I probably looked at Cadillacs more than B, O, P's in person at the time, as both my hometown Chevy dealer and also the Chevy dealer in the small town where I went to college, about 65 miles away, had Cadillac, although definitely not many in inventory.
I like the Seville right up to the rears of the back doors, but I just can't handle that extreme bustle-back. I know that Chrysler and Lincoln both went for a similar look later, but not nearly as dramatic (thankfully). I like the Seville's interior since it was largely Eldorado, and I was always in awe of a flat floor.
I can remember hearing a story that the first 8-6-4 the dealer in my college town got in, caught fire on an employee's drive in it on I-80. Never verified, but that was early-on and always stuck with me.
My hometown dealer--and don't kill the messenger, I know it's bold/snotty and not true--ran a newspaper ad that had their name, "CHEVROLET" to the right, "CADILLAC" below, and the words "There's really nothing in-between" between them, LOL.
My friend and I were in a newspaper photo ad for my hometown dealer as we were checking out a new, gold '69 Hardtop Sedan deVille in the showroom. The dealer took our pic and it was used in an ad in the paper. My parents apparently never kept it and I have looked to no avail in our paper on newspapers.com.
My college dealer was the only place I ever saw a '77-79 Coupe deVille with no vinyl top. It had a weird fiberglas-looking body-colored part around the quarter window, and I distinctly remember that car had visible file marks on the B-pillar. Funny what sticks with you.
Something I remember seeing in Eldos of that period, but I know was also used even earlier and in Rivieras and Toronados, was the door handle on the right door that was accessible from the rear seat. Totally unnecessary probably, but that struck me as the peak of luxury, LOL.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Something I remember seeing in Eldos of that period, but I know was also used even earlier and in Rivieras and Toronados, was the door handle on the right door that was accessible from the rear seat. Totally unnecessary probably, but that struck me as the peak of luxury, LOL.
Yes, nothing new under the sun. If you ordered a '66 Toronado with the deluxe interior, your rear passengers got their own door handle.
With that '77 Coupe Deville, it's like they didn't know what to do with the opera window. It doesn't seem like it really lines up with anything on the rest of the car. The bottom of it is above the beltline of the door, but below the decklid. The upper edge doesn't line up with anything either. And while the window is upright, but the rear window is angled, it makes me think of the '92+ Eldorado, although not quite as severe.
It also looks like three of the four corners of that opera window are rounded off, while the fourth (upper left/front) is a right angle. Odd.
I tried to look for a pic of a similar vintage Electra coupe with no vinyl top, but couldn't find one. I did find a '79 Ninety-Eight, though...
While it still looks a bit mis-matched to me, in relation to the bottom and the top of it, I don't mind it, as much. Actually, it looks like the top of the opera window might line up with the top of the window glass in the door. It's just that the door has a frame around it, so the glass doesn't go all the way to the top of the door opening.
In general though, you can tell these cars were designed with vinyl roofs in mind, whereas in the past, the vinyl roof was more of an afterthought.
*Edit: Here's another Ninety-Eight coupe, sans landau roof, that shows it off a bit better...
I didn't remember the driver's door having the handle for the rear seat; talk about luxury! LOL
My friend's '63 Riviera with the Custom interior option has it but I'll have to ask him if it's on the left side as well.
That green '79 Ninety-Eight looks particularly naked without the fender and C-pillar nameplates, and it probably also had the optional body side molding which the vast majority did, even though I like the looks of those cars, and most others at the time, without them.
The quarter window looks better than Caddy's IMHO. The Electra had the same quarter window as the Ninety-Eight I seem to remember.
That Olds reminds me of the Chevy engine in Olds debacle. I can recall my good friend's grandfather's '77 dark blue Delta 88 sedan, which he bought upon trading in his aqua '71 Delta 88 sedan. He was born in the 1890's, a wonderful guy, but I can plainly remember him telling us, "It has an 'L' as the fifth digit in the serial number, which means Chevy engine. The thing that gets me is, I thought I was buying a 'Rocket V8'".
I believe customers got a check for $200 for it. But it was underhanded.
One of the magazines at the time I remember reading, said something to the effect of, "You're probably better off with the Chevy 350", but back then especially, the way GM handled it was not good. Their take was something like, "You ordered a 170 hp 350 4-barrel and that's what you got".
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
While I think the B-body coupes took a bit of a step backward with the 1980 re-skin, I think the C-bodies actually improved a bit. Here's an '84 Ninety-Eight coupe... It has more of that upright "personal luxury coupe" roofline, but I think it comes off better here than it did on the B-bodies. I think my issue with the b-bodies is that the '77-79 coupes already looked good, and the '80 re-skin did nothing to improve that. In fact, it gave the rooflines too much of a "corporate" look. But with the C-bodies, the Electra/Ninety-Eight were already the same, and I think the only difference with the Coupe DeVille was that the window was a bit smaller and more squared off. But the '77-79 C-body coupe roof was a bit awkward to my eye, so I saw this as an improvement. In general, the whole C-pillar/quarter window area just seems like it flows better.
This style looks like it could almost be turned into a hardtop...get rid of the B-pillar and the frames around the windows. Although, I suspect there might not be enough space for that back window to roll down into.
One of the magazines at the time I remember reading, said something to the effect of, "You're probably better off with the Chevy 350", but back then especially, the way GM handled it was not good. Their take was something like, "You ordered a 170 hp 350 4-barrel and that's what you got".
That must have been a magazine looking for favors from the GM PR department.
Olds people never accepted the GM explanation. Even though a lot of them were older like your friend's grandfather and were equating the '70s Olds V8s to the original Rocket V8s that were quite revolutionary when first introduced, the 2nd-gen Rocket engines were still felt to be superior to the SBC by Olds aficionados. Supposedly higher nickel content in the block, not as leaky with the valve guides/seals, no soft cam problems, no bolts through the coolant passages that required sealant on assembly, etc. The main advantage of the SBC was that it was cheaper to build.
I've always heard the main reason the Chevy smallblock was the one that survived the longest was that it was simply the cheapest to build. The main thing I've heard about with the Olds block, was the high nickel content that allowed it to be stronger, yet lighter, than the Chevy block. The Pontiac and Buick engines, while durable enough, did not adapt well to emissions controls.
I've heard the Chevy smallblock in general being referred to as "having a weak bottom end". I don't know if that means the block itself, or the crankshaft, or what.
This may just be an old wive's tale, but I've heard the problems with the Chevy smallblock date back to when it was first designed. Supposedly the block was was too fragile, but instead of redesigning it from scratch, they just added on weight here and there to the weak parts. About the best analogy I can think of, is that if you have a 2x6 board, but then realize you needed something stronger...but instead of replacing it with a 2x10, you simply nail up another 2x6 next to it.
The engine always gets praised for its low reciprocating mass, which is all fine and dandy, but overall, it was a fairly heavy block, as I understand.
As a companion piece to that Ninety-Eight, here's a 1980 Electra coupe... It's interesting that they actually went through the effort to change the quarter window slightly between the two for '80, considering they didn't bother to do that in '77-79.
I don't think the weight variance matters *too* much for most drivers, but probably is more of a factor with racers and such, where every pound matters.
But at the end of the day, whether you have 500 lb of Ford smallblock, 525 lb of Mopar 318, or 575 lb of Chevy 305 on top of the front axle of a car that could weigh 3500 lb or more, I wonder if a ~75 lb spread makes that much of a difference.
I'm surprised that the Buick 350 is so light, at only 450 lb. It's not listed in that chart, but I've heard the Pontiac 301 was listed at around 450 lb, and it was considered fragile. So I wonder how Buick managed to do it? As far as I know, the Buick 350 was pretty durable, although the early 231 V6 was not. I wonder though, if perhaps that Buick weight is just a "bare" block, while some of the other weights might have more added (intake manifold, or whatever?)
You know me and what general car websites say after years have gone by, but it seems like the SBC is usually on lists of "greatest engines of all time". You do sure see them in every make of old car at shows and were also used in racing.
A friend of mine wrote an article for Hemmings where he said, other than it was heavy and an oil leaker (thought not an oil burner), the Studebaker V8 was one of the most durable V8's once the soft cam issues of '51 and '52 were taken care of. He detailed all his reasons.
One reason I bought '66 Studebakers twice in a row, was I thought the Chevy engine would be easier to have serviced. Ironically, in my current, low-mileage car, that's the only point of the car I've had problems with, LOL. Intake manifold gasket, water pump, and carb (although I really can't moan about carb issues on a 1966 car). The engine guru in the national club says that V8, which was built by McKinnon Industries of Canada and was apparently used in trucks there, and possibly Pontiacs, has the Power Pack heads. I'm certain that Stude didn't ask for that but took whatever GM would sell them. The installation around the Stude steering is a Rube Goldberg thing...it's almost on little stilts. As a result, the air filter element is Studebaker-only. A Chevy 283 one won't fit.
When I've gone into area garages, the first thing I say is, "It's a Studebaker, with a Chevy 283". My oil change invoices even have that printed out on them, LOL. I say that before they have a chance to say, "I don't know anything about Studebakers".
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
I liked that Electra, until I saw "DIESEL" on the lower front fender.
Well, Olds got back at Chevy by Chevy installing Olds diesels in Chevys!
I came close to considering a new '82 Monte Carlo diesel. My friend's Dad was a Chevy/Buick dealer Service Manager at a store about 25 miles from where my parents lived. I remember him saying "we're tearing them down with sometimes as little as 15K or 20K miles". That was enough for me, in addition to the way they sounded.
An advantage one always reads about SBC's is 'lightweight'. I recall seeing the term 'evergreen' used too.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Isn't "evergreen" just a fancy way of saying "it's been around for ages" ?
I've tended to hear the phrase "low reciprocating mass" which people might interchange between "light weight". I think one reason it's popular is that it's compact in size. At least, just eyeballing it, the Chevy smallblocks always seemed physically smaller than most other V8 engines, with the exception of the Ford smallblock. Years ago though, a mechanic said that the heads can make a difference, too, so when you look under the hood, a lot of the "mass" is actually from the heads, not necessarily the block. And I guess with Hemi heads, and in later years DOHC heads and such, that can definitely be true.
Any way, my only real personal experience with a Chevy smallblock is the 305 in my Mom's old '86 Monte Carlo, and the 305 in my Granddad's old Silverado. No complaints about either one. The Silverado was a bit of a guzzler, by the time it got handed down to me, but it only had a 3-speed automatic, no overdrive. I remember when it was newer, it had no trouble getting into the lower 20's on the highway. And it wasn't exactly a lightweight. I remember going to a landfill one time with a load of junk, and it was one of those where they weighed you going in full, and then coming out empty, and would charge accordingly, I estimated it weighed around 4200 lb (taking into account my weight, and a few odds and ends I had in the cab). But then, seeing some of the as-tested weights that we've posted here in the past, of cars like a '76 Aspen wagon, '77 Bonneville, Caprice, etc, maybe that's not too surprising.
The definition in the Free Dictionary is pretty nebulous:
ev·er·green (ĕv′ər-grēn′) adj. 1. Having foliage that persists and remains green throughout the year. 2. Perennially fresh or interesting; enduring. 3. Automatically renewed or repeatedly made valid: a contractual evergreen clause. n. 1. A tree, shrub, or plant having foliage that persists and remains green throughout the year. 2. evergreens Twigs or branches of evergreen plants used as decoration. 3. Something that remains perennially fresh, interesting, or well liked.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Another term that I tend to hear is "venerable". I know what it's supposed to mean, but I think with regard to engines it usually means "it still does its purpose fairly well, but there are better choices out there and it still should have been retired eons ago". Basically, a nicer way of saying "Hoary"
Although you gotta be careful nowaday, because when you pronounce the word "hoary", people probably think you mean something else
'Venerable' definitely sounds better than 'hoary'. LOL
That latter word reminds me of this brief story.
When daughter and I drove to CA in 2019, by sheer accident (no pun intended) we drove past the fatal accident spot of James Dean, and it is so marked by sign.
That got me more interested in Dean and the accident, which I'd of course heard about before, and I bought a book by a guy named Lee Rankin that is full of pics taken that day before and after, and other things related to the accident.
Last September, my sister, her husband, and a friend of mine took a break from the Studebaker Drivers' Club national meet in Indy and drove up to Fairmount, the town of 3K where Dean grew up and is buried. The historical society there is full of Dean memorabilia from his childhood up to his death. His family must have never thrown out anything. The house he grew up in is still lived in by his younger cousin, who lived there when Dean did. Tidy farmhouse; recent F-150 in the driveway. At the historical society they tell you the cousin doesn't mind people pulling into the lower driveway to take pics of the house, which to me is very big of him.
Anyway, at the cemetery where Dean is buried, his aunt who raised him is buried there too. Her name was "Ortense". Gotta wonder if her parents didn't like the name with an "H" in front.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
I remember one of my Consumer Guide auto history books using the word "Hoary". I think it was in reference to the Aspen and Volare, saying something like "The slant six and 318 were hoary old affairs by this time, but still served their purpose."
Took the old dear out for a short drive today, noticed a few oldies: 80-83 Cordoba, 70s Z car of some type, 60s Beetle, 58-60 Ford truck, amazingly intact first gen Neon sedan in kind of a magenta color. With spring on the horizon, the old stuff will start coming out for weekend drives.
Also drove by the house I posted some time ago, where the owner has a fetish for mid 60s Fords. Spotted 4x 64 Fords, including the black Galaxie that looked nice in streetview pics.
I had wanted yesterday to get out to the space and at least pull the Cruiser out and let it run 'til warm, but didn't get to it, sigh. Did wash my Cruze Sat. and it had been disgusting. I did take the WeatherTech mats out of it and wash them--they were revolting. But a mountain of laundry to do kept me from going out to see the Stude yesterday.
It is pouring rain now which is a drag, but maybe it'll clean up all the dirty stuff on the streets from winter.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
It got up into the 70's yesterday and is supposed to again, today. Not to sound like an overprotective parent, but I really don't want to get the old cars out onto the road until I'm confident most of the road salt from the past winter has been washed away. Oh well, I guess I could run them up and down the driveway a few times!
Oh, I agree 100%. I have a couple Stude buddies who are like "Meh", but I feel, as you probably do, the car is so well-preserved at this point after so many years, why be lazy about driving it before the roads are all washed off?
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Comments
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
I built one yesterday (since was looking at the color chart) and if you get a coupe, and skip the $6,700 Z51 package (some good stuff, but summer tires), and keep the accessories to a minimum, you are still at about $67k (probably before shipping). So even if you can buy at sticker, with tax/tags it is impossible to get one below the low $70s. And that is a lot of scratch for a toy, so not many 30 YOs are going to be in the market.
us old guys, hoarding all the money still!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I've tended to consider the Corvette as sort of a "midlife crisis" car, starting at some point in the '68-82 generation. I think that image sticks with me because I always picture Larry Tate driving one, in the later episodes of "Bewitched".
I dunno when midlife crisis is supposed to hit, though. I'm about to turn 52. I keep fantasizing about a new Hemi Charger, but I'm at the point now where I'm starting to realize it's later than I think, and, to quote Mama's Family, perhaps it's time to sing or get off the pot! So maybe a Charger is going to be my midlife crisis car?
Now, the Corvette is a phallic symbol car, or at least can be. But I love the American-ness of it, that it's been built for almost 70 years, and that its place in the lineup hasn't been moved around and watered down (no four-door or SUV named Corvette, LOL). On the current car, I think the engineering is pretty amazing (I detest the term 'world class'). But on the 'phallic symbol' thing, I guess I just have to keep telling myself, "It's a Chevy".
On the 2022 orange C8 I looked at at the Cleveland Auto Show, I remember the base price prior to destination charge was $60,900. I saw Camaros that were maybe $11K less than that, but to me that's a way less-appealing car. MHO only.
That car had 505 HP in a NA V-8.
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
I think Corvettes can be cool, the C8 especially is a great value for what it is, although with housing and living costs, maybe less attainable for younger generations than ever. There's still a negative stereotype out there too, think C5 washed with a diaper, chrome wheels, maybe a lawn chair and time out doll for shows, owner has jorts/tucked in shirt/white sneakers/fanny pack/weird off-brand bluetooth headset from 2006 etc.
I'm effectively into middle age now, don't have much of an itch for a midlife crisis car, more concerned with keeping the oldie on the road and having a modern car that will be OK with local roads and weather.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
If you go to FB and search ‘Corvette Furman’ and page down just a little, there are 25 pics of my friends and his brother and their cars which are sequential VIN’s. Story there too. Mike Furman was their salesman in Gaithersburg, MD. He’s the no. 1 Corvette salesman in the U.S. and has been selling them 42 years.
I suppose I could just go work for OF at Enterprise, and make whatever I take home from that be my car payment fund!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I goofed on those when they were new and I still feel the same way now.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
If it was 1981 and I was shopping a highline car, this would be an easy choice (admittedly a bit more expensive than the others):
I doubt I will have the midlife urge for a flashy or sporty car - I am not feeling it yet, and not getting any younger. The right G Wagen could be fun, and I like some configurations of the new Bronco, but even the latter is relatively reasonable. I've always appreciated something comfortable and unique/understated over loudly sporty and flashy.
Out of the three the Lincoln was probably the easiest to live with.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
I actually had an opportunity to drive a bustleback Seville a few times when it was new. My first job had what amounted to a COO for a while who had one. I mentioned part of this in a comment on Adam's video but will expand upon it here. I worked directly under him and for a while he was able to disguise his drinking problem although it later emerged and he departed in rather ugly fashion. He used to invite me to lunch for the sole purpose of driving him back to the office after he drank too much. The Seville had the V8-6-4 and in short-trip driving I believe it was always on 8 cylinders so I didn't notice any issue with it. It had the lightest and most vague power steering I had ever encountered, quite disquieting actually even for the times. Otherwise it drove nicely and was lovely inside except for the abundance of plasti-wood on the dash.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
Seville: 0-60 in 10.5 seconds, 1/4 mile in 17.7
Mark VI: 0-60 in 10.9 seconds, 1/4 mile in 17.7
5th Ave: 0-60 in 14.1 seconds, 1/4 mile in 19.6
I can't remember which one Motortrend liked the best. I seem to recall it was one of those wishy-washy verdicts where they said they were all good in their own ways, and if one car had shortcomings, they came up with excuses for it. For example, the 5th Avenue would have been considerably cheaper than the other two, so they probably cut it some slack there. And having a smaller engine, they probably made some excuses for its sub-par performance.
On the flip side, though, MT probably tested most of these cars, the way they were most commonly equipped. Even though the Diesel was fairly common, and I think technically "standard" on the 1980 Seville, I'd imagine most had the 368. On the New Yorker, 49-state models had a 318-2bbl standard, with a 360-2bbl optional. California models only had a 318-4bbl. There was a 360-4bbl, but it was only used in police cars, as well as a handful of high performance Miradas and Cordobas. And, oddly, was offered in Puerto Rico, according to the EPA at least. Every once in awhile, I'll hear about an '80 New Yorker with a 360-4bbl, and the story is often the usual "someone who knew how to pull some strings at the factory", but I always suspect those.
With the Mark VI, I could imagine a good deal of those actually being equipped with the 351-2bbl. According to the EPA website, the 302 was actually fuel-injected in Lincolns for 1980. "Fuel injection" equates to "expensive" in my mind for back then, so I could see the 351 being a good value.
I'm always looking on FB's "All Original Cars" page. I was looking at a '65 Corvair Corsa, which I like a lot, that was recently bought by a poster there--although the car is in need of work. A "Mike Furman" posted there about it, and I clicked on his link and it's the same guy. He had posted on "All Original Cars" about his Nordic Blue '71 442 W-30 (no longer owns), and his '67 Corvette coupe. Nice to see he's an enthusiast, and not just a salesman. I saw someone post on the Corvette Forum that he tried three supposed "Corvette specialists" and that in two days, two hadn't called him back but Mike himself called him back within half-an-hour.
Here's his Corvette FB page: https://www.facebook.com/corvettefurman
P.S. I'll admit always wanting to do the cliched Corvette-across-Route 66 thing. I imagine by now there's all types of things about where to stop/where not to stop along there. When I drove my daughter out to CA in 2019 we were on Route 66 by mistake for about one mile, in Tulsa, as the interstate went parallel to 66 for many, many miles. The idea of taking a cross-country trip off the interstate, and on no time schedule, is quite appealing to me. An episode of the TV show was filmed in a small town ten miles west of us, where the episode renamed the town name of Kinsman, OH to "Amity" for the episode. They said in the episode it was Ohio, and it was filmed just over the OH/PA border, but you didn't have to be a genius to know 66 doesn't go in OH.
I probably looked at Cadillacs more than B, O, P's in person at the time, as both my hometown Chevy dealer and also the Chevy dealer in the small town where I went to college, about 65 miles away, had Cadillac, although definitely not many in inventory.
I like the Seville right up to the rears of the back doors, but I just can't handle that extreme bustle-back. I know that Chrysler and Lincoln both went for a similar look later, but not nearly as dramatic (thankfully). I like the Seville's interior since it was largely Eldorado, and I was always in awe of a flat floor.
I can remember hearing a story that the first 8-6-4 the dealer in my college town got in, caught fire on an employee's drive in it on I-80. Never verified, but that was early-on and always stuck with me.
My hometown dealer--and don't kill the messenger, I know it's bold/snotty and not true--ran a newspaper ad that had their name, "CHEVROLET" to the right, "CADILLAC" below, and the words "There's really nothing in-between" between them, LOL.
My friend and I were in a newspaper photo ad for my hometown dealer as we were checking out a new, gold '69 Hardtop Sedan deVille in the showroom. The dealer took our pic and it was used in an ad in the paper. My parents apparently never kept it and I have looked to no avail in our paper on newspapers.com.
My college dealer was the only place I ever saw a '77-79 Coupe deVille with no vinyl top. It had a weird fiberglas-looking body-colored part around the quarter window, and I distinctly remember that car had visible file marks on the B-pillar. Funny what sticks with you.
Something I remember seeing in Eldos of that period, but I know was also used even earlier and in Rivieras and Toronados, was the door handle on the right door that was accessible from the rear seat. Totally unnecessary probably, but that struck me as the peak of luxury, LOL.
a '77 Coupe de Ville with no vinyl top. It is rather awkward I think--unlike the '79 and later Eldos without one.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
It also looks like three of the four corners of that opera window are rounded off, while the fourth (upper left/front) is a right angle. Odd.
I tried to look for a pic of a similar vintage Electra coupe with no vinyl top, but couldn't find one. I did find a '79 Ninety-Eight, though...
While it still looks a bit mis-matched to me, in relation to the bottom and the top of it, I don't mind it, as much. Actually, it looks like the top of the opera window might line up with the top of the window glass in the door. It's just that the door has a frame around it, so the glass doesn't go all the way to the top of the door opening.
In general though, you can tell these cars were designed with vinyl roofs in mind, whereas in the past, the vinyl roof was more of an afterthought.
*Edit: Here's another Ninety-Eight coupe, sans landau roof, that shows it off a bit better...
My friend's '63 Riviera with the Custom interior option has it but I'll have to ask him if it's on the left side as well.
That green '79 Ninety-Eight looks particularly naked without the fender and C-pillar nameplates, and it probably also had the optional body side molding which the vast majority did, even though I like the looks of those cars, and most others at the time, without them.
The quarter window looks better than Caddy's IMHO. The Electra had the same quarter window as the Ninety-Eight I seem to remember.
That Olds reminds me of the Chevy engine in Olds debacle. I can recall my good friend's grandfather's '77 dark blue Delta 88 sedan, which he bought upon trading in his aqua '71 Delta 88 sedan. He was born in the 1890's, a wonderful guy, but I can plainly remember him telling us, "It has an 'L' as the fifth digit in the serial number, which means Chevy engine. The thing that gets me is, I thought I was buying a 'Rocket V8'".
I believe customers got a check for $200 for it. But it was underhanded.
One of the magazines at the time I remember reading, said something to the effect of, "You're probably better off with the Chevy 350", but back then especially, the way GM handled it was not good. Their take was something like, "You ordered a 170 hp 350 4-barrel and that's what you got".
This style looks like it could almost be turned into a hardtop...get rid of the B-pillar and the frames around the windows. Although, I suspect there might not be enough space for that back window to roll down into.
Olds people never accepted the GM explanation. Even though a lot of them were older like your friend's grandfather and were equating the '70s Olds V8s to the original Rocket V8s that were quite revolutionary when first introduced, the 2nd-gen Rocket engines were still felt to be superior to the SBC by Olds aficionados. Supposedly higher nickel content in the block, not as leaky with the valve guides/seals, no soft cam problems, no bolts through the coolant passages that required sealant on assembly, etc. The main advantage of the SBC was that it was cheaper to build.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
I've heard the Chevy smallblock in general being referred to as "having a weak bottom end". I don't know if that means the block itself, or the crankshaft, or what.
This may just be an old wive's tale, but I've heard the problems with the Chevy smallblock date back to when it was first designed. Supposedly the block was was too fragile, but instead of redesigning it from scratch, they just added on weight here and there to the weak parts. About the best analogy I can think of, is that if you have a 2x6 board, but then realize you needed something stronger...but instead of replacing it with a 2x10, you simply nail up another 2x6 next to it.
The engine always gets praised for its low reciprocating mass, which is all fine and dandy, but overall, it was a fairly heavy block, as I understand.
Here’s a list of engine weights, the SBC doesn’t seem all that heavy.
https://www.gomog.com/allmorgan/engineweights2.html
It's interesting that they actually went through the effort to change the quarter window slightly between the two for '80, considering they didn't bother to do that in '77-79.
But at the end of the day, whether you have 500 lb of Ford smallblock, 525 lb of Mopar 318, or 575 lb of Chevy 305 on top of the front axle of a car that could weigh 3500 lb or more, I wonder if a ~75 lb spread makes that much of a difference.
I'm surprised that the Buick 350 is so light, at only 450 lb. It's not listed in that chart, but I've heard the Pontiac 301 was listed at around 450 lb, and it was considered fragile. So I wonder how Buick managed to do it? As far as I know, the Buick 350 was pretty durable, although the early 231 V6 was not. I wonder though, if perhaps that Buick weight is just a "bare" block, while some of the other weights might have more added (intake manifold, or whatever?)
A friend of mine wrote an article for Hemmings where he said, other than it was heavy and an oil leaker (thought not an oil burner), the Studebaker V8 was one of the most durable V8's once the soft cam issues of '51 and '52 were taken care of. He detailed all his reasons.
One reason I bought '66 Studebakers twice in a row, was I thought the Chevy engine would be easier to have serviced. Ironically, in my current, low-mileage car, that's the only point of the car I've had problems with, LOL. Intake manifold gasket, water pump, and carb (although I really can't moan about carb issues on a 1966 car). The engine guru in the national club says that V8, which was built by McKinnon Industries of Canada and was apparently used in trucks there, and possibly Pontiacs, has the Power Pack heads. I'm certain that Stude didn't ask for that but took whatever GM would sell them. The installation around the Stude steering is a Rube Goldberg thing...it's almost on little stilts. As a result, the air filter element is Studebaker-only. A Chevy 283 one won't fit.
When I've gone into area garages, the first thing I say is, "It's a Studebaker, with a Chevy 283". My oil change invoices even have that printed out on them, LOL. I say that before they have a chance to say, "I don't know anything about Studebakers".
Well, Olds got back at Chevy by Chevy installing Olds diesels in Chevys!
I came close to considering a new '82 Monte Carlo diesel. My friend's Dad was a Chevy/Buick dealer Service Manager at a store about 25 miles from where my parents lived. I remember him saying "we're tearing them down with sometimes as little as 15K or 20K miles". That was enough for me, in addition to the way they sounded.
An advantage one always reads about SBC's is 'lightweight'. I recall seeing the term 'evergreen' used too.
I've tended to hear the phrase "low reciprocating mass" which people might interchange between "light weight". I think one reason it's popular is that it's compact in size. At least, just eyeballing it, the Chevy smallblocks always seemed physically smaller than most other V8 engines, with the exception of the Ford smallblock. Years ago though, a mechanic said that the heads can make a difference, too, so when you look under the hood, a lot of the "mass" is actually from the heads, not necessarily the block. And I guess with Hemi heads, and in later years DOHC heads and such, that can definitely be true.
Any way, my only real personal experience with a Chevy smallblock is the 305 in my Mom's old '86 Monte Carlo, and the 305 in my Granddad's old Silverado. No complaints about either one. The Silverado was a bit of a guzzler, by the time it got handed down to me, but it only had a 3-speed automatic, no overdrive. I remember when it was newer, it had no trouble getting into the lower 20's on the highway. And it wasn't exactly a lightweight. I remember going to a landfill one time with a load of junk, and it was one of those where they weighed you going in full, and then coming out empty, and would charge accordingly, I estimated it weighed around 4200 lb (taking into account my weight, and a few odds and ends I had in the cab). But then, seeing some of the as-tested weights that we've posted here in the past, of cars like a '76 Aspen wagon, '77 Bonneville, Caprice, etc, maybe that's not too surprising.
ev·er·green (ĕv′ər-grēn′)
adj.
1. Having foliage that persists and remains green throughout the year.
2. Perennially fresh or interesting; enduring.
3. Automatically renewed or repeatedly made valid: a contractual evergreen clause.
n.
1. A tree, shrub, or plant having foliage that persists and remains green throughout the year.
2. evergreens Twigs or branches of evergreen plants used as decoration.
3. Something that remains perennially fresh, interesting, or well liked.
Although you gotta be careful nowaday, because when you pronounce the word "hoary", people probably think you mean something else
That latter word reminds me of this brief story.
When daughter and I drove to CA in 2019, by sheer accident (no pun intended) we drove past the fatal accident spot of James Dean, and it is so marked by sign.
That got me more interested in Dean and the accident, which I'd of course heard about before, and I bought a book by a guy named Lee Rankin that is full of pics taken that day before and after, and other things related to the accident.
Last September, my sister, her husband, and a friend of mine took a break from the Studebaker Drivers' Club national meet in Indy and drove up to Fairmount, the town of 3K where Dean grew up and is buried. The historical society there is full of Dean memorabilia from his childhood up to his death. His family must have never thrown out anything. The house he grew up in is still lived in by his younger cousin, who lived there when Dean did. Tidy farmhouse; recent F-150 in the driveway. At the historical society they tell you the cousin doesn't mind people pulling into the lower driveway to take pics of the house, which to me is very big of him.
Anyway, at the cemetery where Dean is buried, his aunt who raised him is buried there too. Her name was "Ortense". Gotta wonder if her parents didn't like the name with an "H" in front.
Also drove by the house I posted some time ago, where the owner has a fetish for mid 60s Fords. Spotted 4x 64 Fords, including the black Galaxie that looked nice in streetview pics.
It is pouring rain now which is a drag, but maybe it'll clean up all the dirty stuff on the streets from winter.