I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

sda

andres3 still posts in Chronic Cars and Edmunds Cars and Conversations. He has had quite the experience with his current Audi, a bad engine that he had to replace on his dime. Haven't heard any Neon references or complaints recently. He isn't real keen on Kia either.

ab348

I had to check to see if you guys were serious, but I think now that you are. You're talking about andres3. He's still around on Chronic Car Buyers and sometimes Cars and Conversations. He loves to go canyon-carving, he rails on about speeding being safe, and his latest Audi recently had a spectacular $15K engine failure. He can be entertaining sometimes.

andre1969

I think this is the only forum I really hang out in on Edmunds, these days. Back in February 2021 I popped into the old Dodge Intrepid forum, and the last post had been from October 2015, when another Edmunds member mentioned losing his 2000 Intrepid, at around 250,000 miles, in a serious side-impact crash. I dropped a post, myself, but nothing since then. Wow, the time goes fast. I had that car for a little over 10 years, from showroom to when it got totaled. But now, at roughly 12 years and 5 months since it was totaled, that car has been gone, for longer than I had it! Yet sometimes when I think back on it, it doesn't seem that long ago.

A $15,000 engine repair? OUCH! With the exception of my old Intrepid and my Ram, that's more than the purchase price of any other car I've ever owned!

xwesx

andre1969 said:

A $15,000 engine repair? OUCH! With the exception of my old Intrepid and my Ram, that's more than the purchase price of any other car I've ever owned!

To be fair, it was a complete engine replacement, but, yeah, point taken. OUCH!

tjc78

My neighbor had an 86 Fifth Ave. I drove it a handful of times. You are correct on the assessment, it drove bigger than the 89 Grand Marquis I had at the time. Very comfortable car though with awesome AC.

tjc78

Also, my Stepdad had a first gen Neon one of the first ones the dealer got. White with white hubcaps and speckled 90s grey interior.

At the time it had more HP than any of the other compacts and it was also pretty roomy. Handling was spot on and it was stable at high speeds.

That’s where the good stuff ended. It needed a trans very early in its life and needed the gas tank dropped a few times for fuel pump and gas gauge issues. A few other things crept up too. He didn’t keep it long, it may have been a lease.

Only picture I could find on snowy day
My 89 Grand Marquis LS
94 (or was it 93??) Neon
92 Buick Century V6

The white Fifth Ave is the one I just talked about along with an 86 Taurus GL 4cyl.

tjc78

fintail

I believe the Neon was a very early 1994 launch for MY 1995. Fun pic, as all of those cars are becoming uncommon these days.

tjc78

I just looked it up. Jan 94 launch for the 95 model year.

I’m having a tough time with the fact this was 27 years ago lol.

fintail

1994 was 28 years ago

I recall the Neon was a big deal at launch, and we all probably recall the ads.

tjc78 said:

I just looked it up. Jan 94 launch for the 95 model year.

I’m having a tough time with the fact this was 27 years ago lol.

andre1969

Yep, I remember the Neon coming out about the time my company finally picked me up full-time, after I graduated college. My first day of full-time employment was Presidents' Day, 1994. I thought that was kinda cool; my first day of full-time being a holiday that I got paid for

I had forgotten that the Neon was actually launched as a '95, that early on. There oughtta be a law against that!

I can still remember, one night in late 1996, when I had my evening job delivering pizzas. At the time I was delivering for Little Caesar's. We only had three drivers at this time...me, with my '68 Dart, a guy who drove an '80's Ford Ranger, and another guy who was driving a late 80's Celebrity wagon, that replaced his T-bird, which had the famous 232 V6 head gasket self-destruct. So, among us, we represented the Big Three, I guess.

Anyway, that particular night, I was the only driver. The guy with the Ranger had lost his transmission and the guy with the Celebrity had blown up the engine on that one, as well. Well, my Dart up and died, totally, in the rain at a traffic light about a half-mile from the store. I was so mad, I swore I was gonna go out and buy a Neon that weekend!

I was able to push the car off of the main road and onto the shoulder of a side street, and then walked back to the store. We had to stop deliveries for the night. By some freak of nature though, the car did start back up, and I was able to get it home. The next day I messed around with it some, and figured out what it was. The ignition points had basically worn down to nothing. So, for a couple bucks I was able to get it running again. I guess I dodged a bullet, in not going out and buying a Neon, on the spur of the moment!

ab348

I remember this Neon commercial for the 2nd-gen model always made me grin:

https://youtu.be/sgoyU-rt5pI

The English version had this narration at the end: "The new Dodge SX 2.0: the thrill of 132 horses under your foot".

fintail

A friend's mom got the first Neon I recall, in the spring of 94. I want to say it was dark blue or grey, and I swear it had the white hubcaps too, but that was a long time ago.

Around Y2K, my my mom co-signed on a 96 Neon Expresso coupe for my brother, as kind of a grad gift I think - at the time he had a yellow 85 K-car my dad bought out of an estate for $500 and passed to him. My brother did not like the K-car, and ended up hating the Neon - I think he loathed having a car payment, and he started hearing bad things about durability. A couple years later, an old Fleetwood ran a red light and totaled the Neon, my brother was thrilled to get rid of it. He hasn't had a car payment since.

uplanderguy

I thought when they added the coupe to Neon gen 1, it was a good-looking car. Even on the sedan, I thought it was kind-of cool that it had frameless door glass.

'Til two or three years ago, I'd still see gen 2 Neons around this college town. So, if they were known for poor durability, the flip side must've been that they were cheap to buy, maintain, and repair.

RE.: The '80's Fifth Avenues mentioned earlier here--my best man was a Chrysler zone rep in the mid'80's and had all kinds of Mopar Company cars. He always said the Kenosha (AMC)-built cars were better than the other ones. "AMC builds Chryslers better than Chrysler does", he'd say, LOL.

andre1969

After I left Little Caesar's and went on to Papa John's, one of the drivers there briefly had a Neon coupe. It was the strangest thing though...he bought it, and they let him take possession of it, but then after about a week they said his credit was too bad and he didn't qualify, so he had to return it. But then, somehow, he DID qualify for a new S-10 pickup.

It just seemed odd to me, because for awhile, around these parts at least, the Neon sort of got the reputation for being the car for people with bad credit. That, and Hyundais and Kias. So if his credit was so bad he couldn't get a Neon, that's scary! But still, doesn't explain the S-10?

And, just to back up that reputation, I've known a few people who had Neons, and had them repossessed. I also knew a girl who had a Neon, but her boyfriend totaled it.

As for reliability, don't know if they ever really got all the bugs worked out of the first-gen Neon, but I don't think the second one was too bad. I'm sure it still got bad ratings in Consumer Reports, but I think they were fairly cheap to fix. Initially, they were still using 3-speed automatics, which I think were carried over from the K-car and perhaps even the Omni/Horizon! They also didn't do too well in crash tests. They were probably much better than a lot of small cars that came before them, but at the same time, there were a lot of equivalent new cars that performed better.

uplanderguy

Price softens many ills.

andre1969

uplanderguy said:

Price softens many ills.

Definitely true. Plus, for me at least, the types of problems that crop up in a car are more important than just how reliable or not overall it is. While I'd generally prefer my cars to be as reliable as possible, the types of repairs that annoy me the most are ones that leave me stranded, or make the car have to be towed. Or, when the same problem keeps popping up, repeatedly.

For example, my '89 Gran Fury had an appetite for starters. I remember one year, that's how I found out that AAA only gives you four service calls per year. I had let my housemate use my AAA membership one time, when the transmission on his '98 Tracker went out. But then my Gran Fury had to be towed, twice, from my condo. On that second tow, they warned me I only had one service call left. And that last time got used towing it from a restaurant parking lot. I had let a friend borrow it, because his '95 Grand Marquis was in the shop for something or other, and it left him stranded. Oh, and there was one time that I could tell it was about to fail, but by some freak of nature did start, and I was able to get it to the mechanic, but then it failed totally while in their lot, and they had to push it into the shop. In all, I think that car went through six starters.

I had always thought there was something else making the starters go bad, but they said no, it's just that it was a lightweight starter, really meant for a 4-cyl car, and by this time the only thing they could get ahold of was fairly crappy rebuilt starters. On the plus side, I only paid for two out of those six. The first failed in 1998, soon after I got the car. The next failure was sometime in 2001. I paid for those first two, but then they kept failing in rapid succession in the late 2001/early2002 timeframe, but then finally, the last one seemed to hold. Actually, now that I think about it, one of those AAA tows might have ended up in the following year. My membership with them runs something like May 25 thru May 25.

I can remember my '68 Dart being towed once...something fuel-related. I think it was where the fuel line went into the gas tank, and partly my fault. The gas tank had a leak in it, and I replaced it, myself, but in the process when I put it all into place, I think I messed up the fuel line and didn't realize it. I just remember it had enough power to get out of the yard and onto the street, and then died going up the hill. Miraculously, I was able to let it roll back, and it had enough momentum to get into the yard and off the street.

My '03 Regal got towed twice, both times in 2017. First, soon after I inherited it, it kept stalling out, at random, so I had it towed from the yard to the mechanic. The second time, the water pump went bad and it overheated. I was able to limp it home, but then had it towed to the mechanic. And the Ram got towed once, when one of the brake calipers seized up. I probably could have driven it to the mechanic, but I was about 15 miles away, and didn't want to risk further damage.

Oh, and the DeSoto got towed, back in 2009, when I had it sent off to the mechanic to get all that work done on it. But, having a car towed is a somewhat rare occurrence for me, and a bit of a sore spot, when it does happen.

Also, if something breaks on a car, but it's something I can fix myself, it doesn't annoy me as much. But, as cars get more complex, and I also find I don't have the patience I used to, that's becoming increasingly rare.

sda

My middle sister’s husband had a 96 Neon 4dr, auto, ac, am/fm stereo, gray cloth interior. I drove it once or twice and it was decent. He didn’t have any issues with it though I doubt it had 50k when it was traded. I remember when the Neon was first introduced Chrysler bragged that they reduced the number of fastener sizes to just a couple which enhanced cost savings and ease of assembly.

xwesx

andre1969 said:

It was the strangest thing though...he bought it, and they let him take possession of it, but then after about a week they said his credit was too bad and he didn't qualify, so he had to return it. But then, somehow, he DID qualify for a new S-10 pickup.

Something like that happened to my brother about ten years ago. He was going to trade in his Cobalt on a newer, sporty version of the same car, basically. I can't remember now, maybe a Cruze?

Anyhow, he signed paperwork and they gave him the keys to the car (and took his Cobalt keys), but then called him about a week later to say that they were cancelling the deal because of some technicality. I think he was over the limit on being upside down or something. In that week, he drove over 700 miles on the car, and he was really disappointed to be back in the Cobalt, but, hey, he got a free week's use out of the other one. LOL

fintail

On foot today, thought I might have seen a Saablazer, but it was the Olds version. No more than 5 minutes later, I saw an actual Saablazer - what are the odds? In this part of the world, not insanely rare, perhaps.

Also saw a 2nd gen Neon, but those aren't too rare yet.

And on my commute route, I have noticed a pair of Omnirizons beside a 70s era house -one looks OK but the other I think has been off the road for some time. Next to that house is another 70s house with a brown/tan 77-79 Coupe DeVille out front, with a For Sale sign in the window - but the car is behind a gate and fence, and there's no way to read the sign from the road.


Those first downsized DeVilles make me think of Luba Potamkin, this ad has to be one of the best period pieces:

https://youtu.be/SVBPCy0hk-I

stickguy

the "hoarder" guy whose house I walk by a lot had one of his driveway queens uncovered yesterday and was doing some work on it. this was #2 in the row. a black Squarebird. a little tired looking but generally sound. 1st in line is a 73 or so Cuda. there is also something I think is a late 50s Mopar or some sort. and another car at the top in a shed that I have no clue what it is.

as far as I know in the last decade only the Cuda has ever moved. most of the time they all just sit under ratty tarps.

roadburner

I remember looking for a Neon ACR to check out and-as expected-not one dealer had even a shred of a clue about that model...

uplanderguy

Saw this very, very clean Isuzu P'up this morning. Owner said it had sat for twenty years. Can't recall when I've seen one around here in any condition.

fintail

A P'up is indeed a hen's tooth, never see those even here.

On the road today saw an immaculate 300M, SX4 hatch, and driving by the Horizon house spotted what appears to be a third one, all 4 doors.

sda

Back when they were new, my neighbor had one of those Pups. It was dealer two toned, white roof, hood, blue green, almost turquoise in color on the sides. Cloth interior, 5sp, ac. I rode in it several times and wasn’t impressed. Noisy, tinny, rough riding, thinly padded seats. My neighbor loved it and that’s what mattered. He traded his rusty but good running 73 LeMans coupe for it. The LeMans was light metallic blue, full white vinyl top, white vinyl interior, full wheel covers, 350. It was a nice car when new, but tired looking when traded. I don’t think it had more than 60k on it.

Michaell

My first wife bought a new P'up before we started dating. White, blue interior, 5-speed, no A/C, no cruise, I think just an AM/FM/Cassette for entertainment (this was in 1986).

After we got married I drove it for a couple of years - used it to commute to LA one summer for work. The throws in the transmission could be measured with a yardstick. Difficult to drive in LA traffic.

We sold it in '91 and that's when I bought the Sentra SE.

stickguy

Here is one for Uplander. Some pretty interesting info on the Avanti.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbduRHkYWSI

uplanderguy

That brown repaint, arrggggh! I had to smile at one or two of the numbers he threw out there with complete confidence, LOL, but thanks so much for sharing. i hadn't seen this.

Ironically, the revised build sheet he shows (first sheet shows the car was delivered to the Public Relations Dept. at Studebaker), shows the car was sold to Gezon Motor Sales in Grand Rapids, MI, which is where my best man's '56 Packard Caribbean Hardtop was delivered.

I always loved how much information is available for a specific car through the Stude Museum. I have all their paperwork for all four Studes I owned.

andre1969

Found this on another forum...
Kind of a cool contrast of "upscale American" vs "upscale German". I don't know what year it was taken, but it's interesting that a piece of the side molding appears to have already fallen off of that Buick!

tjc78

I really dislike that time period where so many models went to the vertical stacked headlights. I always felt like it was done to be different just for the sake of being different.

ab348

The vertical stacked rectangular sealed beams on that Buick remind me a bit of the lights on a Kia Telluride.

sda

That poor Buick had the 231 V6. It was extremely underpowered. A college friend had a 2dr with that V6 and in order to keep up with traffic or go up a slight incline required the accelerator pedal to be pressed to the carpet.

fintail

Car in background with apparent roof rack makes me think MB W114/115. At background right is a BMW E3, usually seen in USDM as a 3.0 or Bavaria.

texases

And the plane looks like a 747-100, the very first model.

andre1969

tjc78 said:

I really dislike that time period where so many models went to the vertical stacked headlights. I always felt like it was done to be different just for the sake of being different.

I remember reading an old Consumer Reports that mentioned the stacked rectangular quads. Apparently, the auto makers argued that going to rectangular headlights would allow them to place the headlights lower on the front of the car. So, once the Feds approved the quads, what do they do? Stack them vertically! Nowadays though, with the widespread popularity of trucks, SUVs, and crossovers, I guess high-mounted headlights are a moot point.

I'm not a huge fan of the stacked rectangular quads, but for me, it's all about the placement of them. On the Malibu/Monte Carlo, and the Fury/Monaco and Cordoba, they seem about where they should be, on the front. But on the Buicks, they just seem mounted too far outboard. And on the Ford LTD-II's, they're mounted too far inward, and with the somewhat narrow grille it looks to me like a front-end intended for a narrower car.

I'm surprised Buick went through the effort to even offer this stacked-quad treatment for the 4-door Century/Regal. The 4-doors and wagons were comparatively low sellers; the bulk of sales came from the coupes, which got a different front-end. I wonder why they didn't just do what Olds did with the Cutlass, and offer the same front-end on coupes, sedans, and wagons?

ab348

andre1969 said:

I remember reading an old Consumer Reports that mentioned the stacked rectangular quads. Apparently, the auto makers argued that going to rectangular headlights would allow them to place the headlights lower on the front of the car. So, once the Feds approved the quads, what do they do? Stack them vertically! Nowadays though, with the widespread popularity of trucks, SUVs, and crossovers, I guess high-mounted headlights are a moot point.

Back then especially, CR seemed to go to great lengths to be critical of not only most automakers, but most manufacturers of anything. The automaker's position about mounting the rectangular quads lower was true enough - see the late-70s Chrysler LeBaron among others. But that didn't mean that *all* new designs would go that route. There is such a thing as styling, after all. But CR (like many advocates/activists for whatever) like to point to those statements as absolutes, even though they never were.

roadburner

fintail said:

Car in background with apparent roof rack makes me think MB W114/115. At background right is a BMW E3, usually seen in USDM as a 3.0 or Bavaria.

It's a 1972 or newer based on the lack of horizontal vents on the C pillar.

fintail

That late then, I guess badged "Bavaria"? (IIRC you had one of these ages ago)

roadburner said:

fintail said:

Car in background with apparent roof rack makes me think MB W114/115. At background right is a BMW E3, usually seen in USDM as a 3.0 or Bavaria.

It's a 1972 or newer based on the lack of horizontal vents on the C pillar.

fintail

Out today in the fintail saw a 77-79 Fleetwood in kind of rough condition, and a 63-64 Chrysler 2 door HT in pretty decent condition.

I also noticed in Adam's latest video, featuring his Cheviac and a 59 Impala, the Impala owner called out fintails when discussing flow-through ventilation.

ab348

fintail said:

Out today in the fintail saw a 77-79 Fleetwood in kind of rough condition, and a 63-64 Chrysler 2 door HT in pretty decent condition.

I also noticed in Adam's latest video, featuring his Cheviac and a 59 Impala, the Impala owner called out fintails when discussing flow-through ventilation.

I figured you would mention that. 😄

roadburner

fintail said:

That late then, I guess badged "Bavaria"? (IIRC you had one of these ages ago)

roadburner said:

fintail said:

Car in background with apparent roof rack makes me think MB W114/115. At background right is a BMW E3, usually seen in USDM as a 3.0 or Bavaria.

It's a 1972 or newer based on the lack of horizontal vents on the C pillar.

Yes, I ran a 1973 Bavaria from 1983 to 1990. Depending on the year a US spec E3 could also wear a 2500, 2800, 3.0 S or 3.0 Si badge.

fintail

It caught my ear. IIRC the other guy was German, every now and then some accent would shine through.

The flow through entrance on a fintail is the vent in front of the wipers, the exit is hidden behind the C-pillar chrome trim, most don't notice this:

ab348 said:

fintail said:

Out today in the fintail saw a 77-79 Fleetwood in kind of rough condition, and a 63-64 Chrysler 2 door HT in pretty decent condition.

I also noticed in Adam's latest video, featuring his Cheviac and a 59 Impala, the Impala owner called out fintails when discussing flow-through ventilation.

I figured you would mention that. 😄

fintail

I think I've seen the 3.0 badged cars before.

That reminded me, several years ago at an auction, I saw a faded but solid looking example, maybe someone saved it:

roadburner said:

fintail said:

That late then, I guess badged "Bavaria"? (IIRC you had one of these ages ago)

roadburner said:

fintail said:

Car in background with apparent roof rack makes me think MB W114/115. At background right is a BMW E3, usually seen in USDM as a 3.0 or Bavaria.

It's a 1972 or newer based on the lack of horizontal vents on the C pillar.

Yes, I ran a 1973 Bavaria from 1983 to 1990. Depending on the year a US spec E3 could also wear a 2500, 2800, 3.0 S or 3.0 Si badge.

roadburner

fintail said:

I think I've seen the 3.0 badged cars before.

That reminded me, several years ago at an auction, I saw a faded but solid looking example, maybe someone saved it:

roadburner said:

fintail said:

That late then, I guess badged "Bavaria"? (IIRC you had one of these ages ago)

roadburner said:

fintail said:

Car in background with apparent roof rack makes me think MB W114/115. At background right is a BMW E3, usually seen in USDM as a 3.0 or Bavaria.

It's a 1972 or newer based on the lack of horizontal vents on the C pillar.

Yes, I ran a 1973 Bavaria from 1983 to 1990. Depending on the year a US spec E3 could also wear a 2500, 2800, 3.0 S or 3.0 Si badge.

That's the color of my old car; Riviera Blue. Here it is being driven by it's fifth owner at the Vintage:

sda

roadburner said:

fintail said:

I think I've seen the 3.0 badged cars before.

That reminded me, several years ago at an auction, I saw a faded but solid looking example, maybe someone saved it:

roadburner said:

fintail said:

That late then, I guess badged "Bavaria"? (IIRC you had one of these ages ago)

roadburner said:

fintail said:

Car in background with apparent roof rack makes me think MB W114/115. At background right is a BMW E3, usually seen in USDM as a 3.0 or Bavaria.

It's a 1972 or newer based on the lack of horizontal vents on the C pillar.

Yes, I ran a 1973 Bavaria from 1983 to 1990. Depending on the year a US spec E3 could also wear a 2500, 2800, 3.0 S or 3.0 Si badge.

That's the color of my old car; Riviera Blue. Here it is being driven by it's fifth owner at the Vintage:

The styling was crisp and clean, it still looks handsome.

uplanderguy

A friend is considering making an offer on this '62 Bonneville convertible on eBay now. Nicely equipped with eight-lugs, Tri Power, and leather buckets and console (available only on the convertible in the Bonneville series then and fairly rare).

I like the extra taillight portion on the Bonneville, but man, I just cannot get over the overhang. It was surely disguised better on the '65 and later cars. I really couldn't live with that. The Grand Prix is on the shorter wheelbase and I could live with that easier. Not crazy about the big 'flying saucer' emblem on the car. I love the big '65 Pontiacs but I was glad to see that go on the '66 Bonneville.

uplanderguy

fin, I never noticed the flow-through ventilation feature on fintails. My '66 Studebaker has it, with the extractor vents where the taillights were on the '65 cars. Other than the full-size GM's with the extractor vents in the decklid, the first other cars I can think of, anyway, with visible extractor vents were the '75 Nova and its divisional brethren, and the '75 Monza 2+2 and the others like it.

uplanderguy

OK, a four-door '79 Malibu Classic is hardly anything that's very interesting, especially in this light green color. But it's a factory 267/4-speed car, which is reallllly odd. On the 'All Original Cars' FB page--although those Rally Wheels can't be original to the car.

sda

I've never liked that celery green color. I would hope the 4sp manual would add some pep to the 267 V8. It has to be rare, probably special ordered.

uplanderguy

Oh, no doubt an ordered unit. Funny, I always called both that green and the darker metallic green that year 'celery green'. I didn't like either one.