I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

explorerx4

That Pontiac concept has an angry face.
The car on the left behind it has a fuselage Chrysler vibe.

andre1969

Lemko had sent that concept to me on facebook last night, and he said it made him think of a Dodge, too. It definitely has some '70 Coronet in its DNA (or vice versa, since this came first) but I even see a bit of earlier Coronet. The outer area around the headlights and the front of the fender blades makes me think a bit of a '68. And the '69 Coronet 500 went for a split grille...not with the split as pronounced as this, but the grille inserts themselves seem similar.

If they had gone for this look in '67 instead of what they did go with, I have a feeling I never would have gotten my fascination with the '67, and there wouldn't be one in my garage today. So, it might have saved me some money in the long run! But I do prefer this to what they did come out with, for '68.

Even though that sedan in the back does have an Olds Ninety-Eight vibe to it, I even pick up a hint of '69 Newport/New Yorker.

I wonder if Chrysler got ahold of some of these designs, and used them as inspiration? Or, more likely, I wonder if both auto makers were simply working towards similar themes? Even though there as a lot more individuality back then, they still often worked towards somewhat similar themes, since the stylists were all influenced by the same trends of the era.

explorerx4

@andre1969,
The designers and others went to the same restaurants for 3 martini lunches.
David E Davis had stories about this.

ab348

stickguy said:

My iPad hates posting pictures to this site.

Save the pic to your photo library first, then insert it from there into your post here.

stickguy

I tried that a bunch of times too and still would not work for some reason. so I gave up.

ab348

More on the 2nd-gen Camaro, here’s another pic from the GM Design archive of a proposal for the 1970 1/2 with an early variation of the Kammback prototypes we saw several years later. I like the front end angle on this one, seems almost Ferrari-like.

explorerx4

Ferrari front end, Pacer back end.

uplanderguy

Even though that sedan in the back does have an Olds Ninety-Eight vibe to it, I even pick up a hint of '69 Newport/New Yorker.

I thought the same thing, other than Chrysler then typically had a straight edge at the bottom of the door glass in the rear, instead of tapered.

uplanderguy

That Pontiac photo makes me realize how much I always liked the eight-lug wheels; only downside for me is that means drum brakes. They never really offered a disc brake wheel as bold IMHO.

uplanderguy

Camaro 'Kammback'--you know me, does a stylist think those four horizontal hash marks on the front fenders add to the styling?

Biggest offenders to my eyes of that kind of thing--'70-72 Corvette eggcrate side vents, and '66-67 Mercury ice cube tray on front fenders.

andre1969

The four slashes don't bother me on that Camaro concept, but I'm not a fan of how the bottom of the rear window doesn't line up with the door window.

As for fake vent trim and other items, if they put it behind the front wheel opening, I don't mind it so much. Especially if it's a longer car with a lot of space there. But when they put it ahead of the front wheel, it can make the car look a bit front-heavy. Although, on something like a '58 Chevy, I don't mind those four little forward-slanting slashes at the front...they seem to actually complement the car. Plus, with cars being more chrome-laden back then, it doesn't seem as out of place. But yeah, on those big Mercurys, it looks like that piece was just stuck on at random.

ab348

While I also thought of a fuselage vibe from the big 4-door in the background of that Pontiac concept, if you look closer you can see it has a "shoulder" line below the C-pillar and side windows like GM designs usually had back then, which the Fusies did not.

uplanderguy

andre, re.: '58 Chevy--a case where I think I've seen those four hash marks on the front fenders for so long, it looks normal to me, LOL. In fact, first car I remember my grandparents in town having was a '58 Brookwood wagon in two-tone green.

I think the '58 Impala is GM's prettiest styling and proportions that year....EXCEPT for that stupid 'comb' in front of the rear wheel openings! Well, that and the striped upholstery. But I think the instrument panel is pretty simply-styled by 1958 standards.

For some reason, when I think '58 Impala, that steel blue always comes to mind. I absolutely detest skirts, fake side exhaust ports, and continental kits on them though.

andre1969

That steely blue is what I always picture a '58 Chevy in, too. I think it's because I had a model of one when I was a kid. I'm pretty sure this was the kit...
I do remember you could build it one of three ways, and I remember that horizontal bar custom grille.

texases

Looks like an Avalon!

uplanderguy

Happily anachronistic here, but what a design, yeesh. And I'm sure in the back it has the droopy black trim in the corners that looks like a taillight gasket got pulled out.

I never got 'all in' on black wheels either, but of course the manufacturers don't design with 64-year-olds in mind.

uplanderguy

I had a '58 Impala AMT kit when I was a kid too. It was molded in a pretty powder blue that I can't say I recall seeing on the real cars.

Back then, AMT's line of sorta-'classic' contemporary cars were part of what they called their "Trophy Series". While I liked that Revell and Monogram and Aurora sometimes did kits of cars that AMT didn't, boy there was no beating AMT for authenticity and proportions that looked like the real car.

andre1969

If you cut the pic of that Avalon off around where the grille flares out...
...and leave the rest of it for your imagination to fill in, I don't think it looks bad.

But that lower part, it makes me wonder what they were thinking when they came up with that. Is this what happens when they try to take a big car and make it more "youthful"? Or perhaps the modern equivalent of a 1961 DeSoto? Make it weird on purpose so that when it gets canceled, nobody really misses it that much? I think the Avalon is on the chopping block, if it hasn't been discontinued already.

sda

The even wackier styled Toyota Crown replaces the discontinued Avalon.

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https://o.aolcdn.com/images/dims3/GLOB/legacy_thumbnail/1062x597/format/jpg/quality/100/https://s.aolcdn.com/os/ab/_cms/2022/07/14113919/2023_toyota_crown_0011.jpeg&imgrefurl=https://www.autoblog.com/2022/07/15/2023-toyota-crown-revealed/&tbnid=SBIg8hxgIjVXtM&vet=12ahUKEwiUmbCcsaH7AhUE81MKHVGxBWAQMyghegUIARD0AQ..i&docid=a1d0-ALNGawFzM&w=1062&h=597&q=Toyota Crown&hl=en-us&client=safari&ved=2ahUKEwiUmbCcsaH7AhUE81MKHVGxBWAQMyghegUIARD0AQ

texases

Synonym for Crown: goofy

stickguy

I think it was their attempt to make a traditionally frumpy old person car seem young, hip and trendy. Something for the cool kids.

ab348

uplanderguy said:

I had a '58 Impala AMT kit when I was a kid too. It was molded in a pretty powder blue that I can't say I recall seeing on the real cars.

Funny, I had a '58 Impala AMT kit too when I was a kid. But my memory is that I sprayed it in that powder blue color because it was molded in white plastic.

andre1969

ab348 said:

uplanderguy said:

I had a '58 Impala AMT kit when I was a kid too. It was molded in a pretty powder blue that I can't say I recall seeing on the real cars.

Funny, I had a '58 Impala AMT kit too when I was a kid. But my memory is that I sprayed it in that powder blue color because it was molded in white plastic.

Y'know, now that you mention it, I think my Dad and I did paint our '58 Impala, ourselves. I also had a '55 Chevy that was white over black, but I seem to recall the black had to be painted. And a '56 Chevy that was copper with a white top/trim, but again, I think the copper had to be painted. I also had a '57 Chevy that was pink, but I'm pretty sure that one had the color molded in

texases

I've often thought about getting back into model making, but painting is the problem, I don't have a good place for that messy step. I have built several of the all-metal fold, bend, and crimp models, they turn out pretty good. The DeLorean was my first one, easier because the panels were pretty flat:

ab348

My dad had a workbench down in the basement, so my paint booth for models was there with a good-sized cardboard box with one of the top flaps removed and either side cut down at an angle. Worked well.

uplanderguy

My favorite kit as a kid was the '56 Chevy two-door sedan. It was not an AMT; might've been an MPC or Monogram. But you could build it as One-Fifty, Two-Ten, or Bel Air. Even then I liked the One-Fifty's bare quarters. My Dad painted it white and green, correctly as factory so he must've known how they two-toned the One-Fifty that year.

I got the Aurora Avanti kit when I was a kid. I loved the box--western ranch setting of the car. But the actual model, even though it had opening doors and trunk, and had luggage for the trunk, was way-off in proportions of the real car. It was the first Avanti model kit. In '65 AMT did a Studebaker Avanti kit and per their usual, it was a very nice kit. You could install either the round '63 headlights or the square '64 (chromed pieces that both went into the round holes in the body).

Found the box online for the '56 I had--I clearly remember it:


Here's the original Aurora Avanti kit:

roadburner

andre1969 said:

If you cut the pic of that Avalon off around where the grille flares out...
...and leave the rest of it for your imagination to fill in, I don't think it looks bad.

But that lower part, it makes me wonder what they were thinking when they came up with that. Is this what happens when they try to take a big car and make it more "youthful"? Or perhaps the modern equivalent of a 1961 DeSoto? Make it weird on purpose so that when it gets canceled, nobody really misses it that much? I think the Avalon is on the chopping block, if it hasn't been discontinued already.

A lot more young ladies look nice when viewed from the neck up...

roadburner

texases said:

I've often thought about getting back into model making, but painting is the problem, I don't have a good place for that messy step. I have built several of the all-metal fold, bend, and crimp models, they turn out pretty good. The DeLorean was my first one, easier because the panels were pretty flat:

The last car model I built was a Monogram 635 CSi. I currently have 3 kits on the workbench- including a large scale T Bucket:

texases

That looks like it'll be fun. How big is it? That DeLorean is a little bigger than a Matchbox version. That's another advantage - lots of finished models fit on a shelf.

roadburner

texases said:

That looks like it'll be fun. How big is it? That DeLorean is a little bigger than a Matchbox version. That's another advantage - lots of finished models fit on a shelf.

Big- the finished car will be close to two feet long. Here's part of my collection displayed at my old office.

fintail

uplanderguy said:

Happily anachronistic here, but what a design, yeesh. And I'm sure in the back it has the droopy black trim in the corners that looks like a taillight gasket got pulled out.

I never got 'all in' on black wheels either, but of course the manufacturers don't design with 64-year-olds in mind.

Amusingly, that car is not aimed at the younger set either.

andre1969

I was curious and googled...according to JD Power, in 2019, the median age of the owner of a large car at the time was 60, but the Avalon was 68!

So, Uplander, you're not old enough to own an Avalon

And ironically, if you get the non-sporty version of the Avalon, its grille even more closely resembles that customized '58 Impala model...

uplanderguy

Well, I like the wheels, but the rest, not very much.

andre1969

I have to admit, the more I look at it, the more I don't hate it. I know that's what they call "damning it with faint praise", but I think that ever since the Aztek came out, and everything that's followed, I've just gotten accustomed to oddball styling, harsh, random angles, what I think of as bad proportioning, etc.

It just hit me, now that the Avalon's gone, are the Charger and 300 the last holdouts when it comes to full-sized cars now? At least, somewhat affordable ones?

stickguy

Color is nice too.

sda

andre1969 said:

I have to admit, the more I look at it, the more I don't hate it. I know that's what they call "damning it with faint praise", but I think that ever since the Aztek came out, and everything that's followed, I've just gotten accustomed to oddball styling, harsh, random angles, what I think of as bad proportioning, etc.

It just hit me, now that the Avalon's gone, are the Charger and 300 the last holdouts when it comes to full-sized cars now? At least, somewhat affordable ones?

The 300 and Charger will be around for one last year 2023 from what I read. For the 300 they are offering less trim levels and I don’t think the top of the line C with real wood and leather covered dash is available any longer.

fintail

Premium/"Luxury" rental fleets won't know what to do without the 300. I think it is effectively fleet-only already.

I suspect low spec Genesis cars might be used in that segment, along with zero-option Germans - already seen both in fleet use.

fintail

Spotted this in the "underappreciated survivors" group. A young guy (18) in BC found it on marketplace. 79, ~50K mile car, interesting color combo (green cloth interior), and the clincher - t-tops! I'd prefer a blue on blue or white car with turbines, but I guess those can be swapped. Pretty cool to see a clean t-top car:

andre1969

That T-bird is nice. I'm normally not a huge fan of white cars, but I think an older one, where they do a vinyl roof and interior in a contrast color, can look pretty sharp. I could totally go for a car like this one!

andre1969

On the subject of white cars, I'll admit this one had me drooling a bit...
It's a '79 New Yorker that I saw at the Das Awkscht Fescht car show in Macungie PA this past August (the one where I had the blowout in my '67 Catalina).

What really caught my eye was the green leather interior!

It's not like I see a ton of R-bodies on a regular basis to compare, and it seems like 90% of them are the '79 5th Ave in the same 2-tone Designer Beige/Designer Creme that mine is...but I don't think I've ever seen one in this color combo.

stickguy

nothing better to do so watching the Mecum Las Vegas auction coverage. some weird stuff (normal used cars, like a 2017 LR Evoque).

But they just ran a 1985 Olds Delta 88 Brougham (limited? whatever the top line trim was). 307, white over red. 4 door. not something you usually see at a classic car auction!

andre1969

Olds went overboard with suffixes by 1985. I think the very top trim of the Delta 88 that year was something like Delta 88 Royale Brougham LS.

IIRC, all Delta 88's were "Royales" so that prefix didn't mean much of anything by then. "Brougham" gave you the ritzier interior trim, while I think "LS" added a bunch of power options and other creature comforts that would have otherwise been stand alone options.

And yeah, it does seem weird seeing stuff like that at high-tone auctions these days. I mean, I love cars like this and all, but I still just think of them as nice old cars, and not high-dollar collectibles.

With the LeSabre, in '84-85 the Limited got you the nicer seats from the '84 Electra, which went through a second wave of downsizing and launched as an early '85, in April of '84. I think the Delta 88 Royale Brougham might have done a similar thing, and given you the seats from the Ninety-Eight.

fintail

That NYer looks amazingly comfortable inside, one could fall asleep in that thing.

Weren't there "Collectors" editions of the final run of GM RWD sedans in 85?

andre1969

I don't think Olds did a "Collector's Edition" for the Delta 88. With the LeSabre, they had Custom and Limited trim levels, and just automatically made all the Limiteds "Collectors Editions". Technically, all the power stuff and other upgrades were still optional on the Limited, but I imagine most of them were fully decked out.

Funny thing about that '79 New Yorker, but that's the optional leather interior for the base model. If you got the 5th Avenue, which was more expensive, the seats weren't that over-stuffed and pimpy. I've heard that this confused a lot of buyers, because to them this interior looked nicer than what you got in the 5th Avenue. Chrysler kept this the same for 1980.

But then for 1981, they simply switched the seats. What had been the 5th Ave pattern now became the optional leather for the base New Yorker, while those thick buttoned seats went into the 5th Ave. However, Chrysler did do a bit of cost cutting. In 1981 they made a cloth/vinyl 60/40 seat standard in the 5th Ave.

ab348

fintail said:

That NYer looks amazingly comfortable inside, one could fall asleep in that thing.

Chrysler did a nice job of interior trimming in those during that era, as they also did in the high-end models of the LeBaron and Diplomat at that time.

uplanderguy

I like the white with green interior; distinctive especially by today’s standards.

texases

That's one of the best green interiors, everything matches.

fintail

The green interior of that disco Bird - not quite as posh:

tjc78

Ford brought green interior back in the 90s if anyone recalls. “Willow Green”

sda

fintail said:

The green interior of that disco Bird - not quite as posh:

Jade green, often the exterior would also be jade green.