I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

uplanderguy

Here's a page from the '71 brochure where you can see the Impala's upper door panels. The Biscayne isn't even shown in the brochure; the pic I posted above was from the big showroom album. It was targeted to fleets.

uplanderguy

I liked how the '71 Impala had wide rocker and sill moldings standard. Because of that, and that the wheel openings were cut flat into the body (no flare), that's one of the only bigger cars I can like with no wheel opening trim (although it was optional, as it was on the Catalina and LeSabre). The '72 had no rocker moldings, which was stupid to me. The Bel Air had them, but the Impala didn't at any price.

We've discussed it here before, but I flatly dislike the Sport Coupe roofline on the Impala--looks too small for the body, and clashes with the slab sides and squared-off wheel openings IMHO.

My friend who has sold off most of his collector cars due to health issues, is holding onto his '72 LeSabre Custom convertible, saying they enjoy it so much in the summer. He's said before that he thinks "The General" (or as he sometimes says, 'Generous Motors') was still at the top of its game when it came to full-size cars. I've ridden in the car, top down before, and it's a pleasant ride. It's a creamy beige with saddle vinyl interior and the chrome Buick road wheels (which he added). The Le Sabre Custom all-vinyl interior is plenty nice enough for me.

He said that at 2K-odd units, the LeSabre Custom convertible was the lowest-production of any of GM's '72 full-size convertibles. Funny that both Pontiac and Buick then built the big convertibles in two series.

Too lazy to look, but I think (accent on 'think') that the Catalina and Grand Ville, and LeSabre Custom and Centurion, convertibles were on different wheelbases.

uplanderguy

Although I get tired of red, this is as nice of a '71 Impala as I've seen in a lot of years. Even has the '71-only silver wheels. Black interior. I think this would be an early version as the number of vents on the decklid decreased in the model year and went away completely for '72.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDThCYqRmZU

andre1969

On the subject of color-keyed steering wheels, I just had a flashback. Way back in 2002, my Mom sold Granddad's old '85 Silverado to me. Granddad had bought it brand new in the summer of '85. He died in 1990, and sometime in the mid 1990's, Grandmom gave it to my Mom and stepdad, because it was basically just sitting around in the yard, getting in the way.

This truck was red with a white roof/lower body, and the interior was a mix of red and burgundy. Basically, any exposed metal was red, but everything else was burgundy. However, when I got the truck from Mom, and looked inside, the first thing I asked was "why did you have to replace the steering column?" She looked at me like I lost my mind, and I said, "then why is it black?"

She said it was always that way. D'oh. Shows how observant I am, I guess!

uplanderguy

At about 1:09 in that video of the red '71, I see that someone couldn't resist painting the background of the "Custom" nameplate on the C-pillar, red. Ugh! Everything else is spot-on authentic. Why do people do stuff like that?

andre1969

I think the problem with that '71-73 Sport Coupe roofline, is the way the beltline kicks up to meet the C-pillar. There's just something about it that doesn't flow right, to my eye.

I'd imagine the '71-72 Bonneville was the longest coupe to use that roofline. Or at least, at 126", the longest wheelbase. But, I think that roof works just fine on it...


It's funny though, how that roof can look a bit short and choppy on the smallest car to use it, but seems to work just fine on the bigger ones. I think the way the beltline comes straight back and then curves into the C-pillar, rather than rise up to meet it at a higher point, helps to make the look flow better.

uplanderguy

I think on that long wheelbase, I like the formal top (Grand Ville) a bit better. Nice car but it's begging for whitewalls!

I can't tell if that's a '71 or '72. I like the '72 a bit better as it doesn't have the louvers down in the rocker trim on the front fenders.

sda

I believe these might look familiar. Good for general reference, certainly not gospel. I do wish they had interior and dashboard pictures.

andre1969

I couldn't remember if I had snagged a pic of a '71 or '72 Bonneville either, to be honest. I most likely googled "1971 Bonneville", but that's not always a guarantee that everything that pops up is what I asked for! But, I just went back and searched, and it's a '71.

Here's the ad for it, with a bunch of other pics... https://www.streetsideclassics.com/vehicles/6264-cha/1971-pontiac-bonneville

One advantage of the Grand Ville hardtop coupe is that you got as much legroom in the back seat as you did with the 4-door models...something like 38" I believe. I don't think that was quite as much as a genuine C-body, but was still a bit more than the other B-bodies, which I think were 35", or 35.6" or something like that

sda

uplanderguy said:

Here's a page from the '71 brochure where you can see the Impala's upper door panels. The Biscayne isn't even shown in the brochure; the pic I posted above was from the big showroom album. It was targeted to fleets.

The cloth interiors look more comfortable and for the BelAir, less utilitarian.

uplanderguy

The cloth interiors look more comfortable and for the BelAir, less utilitarian.

Agreed. I actually think the Bel Air cloth interior isn't *terrible*--the chromed button on the seat back does a lot.

I literally was at our hometown Chevy dealer about three times a week then, and I never remember seeing a Bel Air after '71. The one I plainly remember was Sea Aqua, my favorite '71-only color, but sadly it had the black all-vinyl seating in the style of the lower right pic, above. I remember it had Sea Aqua overspray on the top of the "Bel Air" nameplate on the right front fender, which indicated body work before it left the plant, to me. It was $3,700, about $200 or so less than a similar Impala at the time. And it sat at the dealer for months.

uplanderguy

On the 'All Original Cars' FB page....'76 Chevelle Malibu Colonnade Hardtop Sedan with six and 3-speed manual. What an oddball.

I last saw a new 3-speed Chevelle Colonnade at my hometown dealer, in '74. Plain-jane Malibu coupe in that bright turquoise metallic. A coworker of my Dad's actually sold or traded in his '73 Grand Am coupe for it, believe it or not.

This '76 had to have been ordered, especially with the optional bumper guards, Deluxe bumpers (strips), full wheelcovers and Exterior Decor Group (wheel opening moldings and roof gutter moldings). And clock. The Malibu seating is....dire. This looks like the optional vinyl to me. Something I liked back then that I know ab348 doesn't, is the cubby hole to the left of the dash, when you didn't get A/C. It doesn't look great but I was always for an extra place to stash stuff.



Looks to also have the optional courtesy lights.

uplanderguy

Starting in '74, I thought there should've been a model between the Malibu and Malibu Classic. The Malibu Classic interior, and exterior trim, were pretty luxurious but the Malibu, other than adding carpeting, was about as bare as the old '73 Chevelle Deluxe.

uplanderguy

Back to Grand Ville for a minute--I always liked the optional '72 Custom Interior shown here. I don't believe I ever saw one in person.

This interior in four-door got you a rear-seat center armrest; same with the Buick Centurion. The coupes did without for some reason.

uplanderguy

Asked the guy with the 3-speed Chevelle what its story was. He posted this:

it was purchased new at Richard Chevrolet in Cheshire, CT by a 22 year old. He was a college professor, black belt in Karate. He passed away in 2016, had the car up to that point, went to his cousin, then he passed and it went to his son, and I purchased it from him.

uplanderguy

Last Edsel built today. A wagon. As far as I can determine, its whereabouts are not known.

fintail

I wonder if it was a 6 passenger or 9 passenger. Both extraordinarily rare of course.

uplanderguy

I guess I can Google this, but I wonder if the wagon used those same '60 Edsel taillights.

I'd absolutely love to own a '60 Edsel two-door hardtop, in that light aqua pastel color.

I wish the newspaper photo would've identified where the Edsel was going--would've been right on the window sticker--but then, that dealer probably would've been inundated with questions and offers on this one car.

I had mentioned this a few years back on the 'Postwar Studebakers' page, but I'd read for years that the last Stude down the South Bend line was firmly off-limits for photographs, as they didn't want the impression that the company was stopping building cars completely. Well, someone got spy-camera footage of it coming down the line which was shown on Huntley and Brinkley on NBC that night (Dec. 20, 1963).

Probably between 15 and 20 years ago, I took my older daughter to a Friday's restaurant in nearby Stow, OH. I had a Studebaker National Museum sweatshirt on. This handsome older guy--think 'Ted Baxter' from "The Mary Tyler Moore Show"--came over and said, "I saw your shirt. I graduated from Notre Dame and my first job was at the NBC affiliate in South Bend. The Chicago affiliate sent a spy camera to us and I went in the plant the last day and took film of the last car coming down the line, which got sent back to the Chicago affiliate that day and Huntley and Brinkley used it that night".

He was amazed I'd heard that story...or that anyone knew that story, that late in time!

He said he went a few days without shaving, and on the day before the last day, offered a guy coming out of the plant ten dollars for his employee badge. The next day, he went in with the throng.

I later invited him to speak with our Ohio Region Stude club which he did, and I took his pic in front of one of our member's Hawk which was built that last day.

I've lost touch of him. Either he or his wife had health issues I recall. He'd told me he'd never been to the Studebaker National Museum but did get back for an occasional Notre Dame football game.

I thought that was a real long shot that he and I met.

andre1969

I think the Edsel wagon taillights are different. Similar theme, with a tall, narrow oval, with the outer one being red and the inner one being white. But on the non-wagon models, the taillights look taller and narrower. And the chrome bezels are definitely different, as the wagon models have to fit the curvature of the rear, which is tucked up under that slanted fin.

I'm guessing that Ford spent a fairly good amount of money on the '60 Edsel, considering the ultra-low volume. The '61 DeSoto had a similarly short run, and similar sales, of just over 3,000 units. But, DeSoto was down to just a hardtop coupe and hardtop sedan, and they did the bare minimum to differentiate it from a Chrysler.

Ford, in contrast, looks like they actually put some effort into the final Edsel, with a full lineup of 2/4-door sedans, 2/4-door hardtops, convertible, and wagon. And while I'm sure they still tried to share as much as they could with the 1960 Ford, it looks like there's still a lot of Edsel-specific sheetmetal.

xwesx

uplanderguy said:

I thought that was a real long shot that he and I met.

Quite the story! It's great that he took the initiative to come over and take a chance....

uplanderguy

Not car-related, but today is Nov. 22. I was in kindergarten when the assassination happened. The only thing I really remember is no cartoons on TV that weekend, and I remember watching on our B&W TV set the funeral on Monday, and seeing the horse-drawn caisson and hearing the drum beat, 'boom, boom, boom-boom-boom'.

On Nov. 25 Studebaker's board fired Sherwood Egbert, the last car guy who was President at Studebaker, and replaced him with a longtime bean-counter who had come to Studebaker from Packard. On Dec. 9 he announced the pending shutdown of U.S. assembly operations.

Michaell

As my mother tells me all the time, my original due date was 11/22/63, but the shock and trauma of the assassination caused her to not deliver me until 12/8.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

imidazol97

I saw this on an area car club site. Brought back memories. It can be
yours.
https://www.fastlanecars.com/vehicles/3065/1967-buick-gs400

ab348

I may have told this story before, but on Nov 22 1963 I was in the 2nd grade. I was walking home from school that day with my classmate Freddie Gorman whose house was about halfway between the school and my house. His mom was out on the front verandah and announced the news to us when we arrived. In truth it really didn't mean all that much to me at the time. I walked the rest of the way home and found my mom in front of the TV in the living room, which was not something she would typically do in the afternoon. She seemed pretty upset. I'm unsure if I watched Oswald getting shot two days later as it occurred or not but something tells me I did.

uplanderguy

Taken 67 years ago today in my hometown. "Better Than The Mayflower!"

fintail

Yeah, I'd rather drive a 56 Stude than a probably rickety when new 17th century ship

That pic always amuses me, the "I'm not paid enough for this" expression of the pilgrim.

uplanderguy

He's a little smilier in this one.

andre1969

Is the color on that '56 Studebaker "Glenbrook Green?" I think it's a really eye-catching color. It looks like one of the few greens of the 50's that would look good on a modern car. Looking at color charts online, it looks like the '57 equivalent was called "Glendale Green," which gave me a little smile, because my home town is Glenn Dale, Maryland. Although most people don't spell it that way, unless they're long-term locals, or ardent history buffs.

uplanderguy

andre, I think that color is called 'Air Force Blue Poly', when I look at a chart.

Of course, monitors vary, but I've always wondered if what I see as a color is what other people see, or not at all, LOL!

uplanderguy

RE.: That Malibu six with stick I posted a couple days back--under that pic on the 'All Original Cars' FB page, a guy posted that his Dad ordered a new '77 Malibu Classic Landau with six and stick, and F-41 suspension. I'm trying to picture that.

andre1969

Oh, so it's actually blue? To me it looks like a deep, dark, Carribean-type green. One thing I've noticed, is that sometimes in the right light, a dark brown looks like a dark blue to me. But, I think that's because the reflection is picking up the blue sky.

I noticed it a few weeks ago watching one of my guilty pleasures, "Barnaby Jones". Jed Clampett got a new LTD every season, and it was always a brown coupe. But, every once in awhile, I swear it shows up a bit bluish. The actual picture quality on those episodes is a bit washed out, as well, so that might also have something to do with it.

On the cover of the 1980 Chrysler full-size brochure, they show this... At a quick glance, I always thought it was "Nightwatch", that deep, midnight non-metallic blue that was pretty popular back then. My '79 base model is that hue. But then, I noticed that it was a 5th Avenue (fake vent on the fender, plus, it says "Fifth Avenue" on the license plate...D'oh!), so no, it couldn't be blue. While the '79 5th Ave only came in 2-tone "Designer Cream over Designer Beige", for 1980 they also offered a single tone brown called "Black Walnut".

And, that's what this car is. Now that I know what it's supposed to be, I see brown. But, at a quick glance, I swear I see midnight blue.

andre1969

This is the color I'm picturing that '56 Studebaker in...
The ad didn't specify the color, other than "green and white."

uplanderguy

That New Yorker looks black to me.

I do like that dark green on the Hawk.

I like the ‘56 color Stude called Ceramic Green.

imidazol97

uplanderguy said:

That New Yorker looks black to me.

I do like that dark green on the Hawk.

I like the ‘56 color Stude called Ceramic Green.

Here's the 56 color chart so we can follow along on the colors mentioned. I
looked up some of the colors.

I think REdwood Poly would look good on a two-tone like the
green pictured in Glenwood green

imidazol97

uplanderguy said:

Taken 67 years ago today in my hometown. "Better Than The Mayflower!"

Is this an Airforce Blue car? Could that be the color of the Thanksgiving picture Studebaker?

andys120

Doesn't look like the same color on my monitor. T-giving Stude is teal. Lower one is medium dark blue.

andre1969

Here's a '56 in Air Force Blue...at least according to the ad copy...
Even in shadows, it still looks blue to me, whereas that earlier Stude seems to lean a bit more toward green.

sda

The green and blue cars are very handsome. I like how the trim dips to a V at the C pillar which looks very distinctive and somewhat sporty.

uplanderguy

That dark blue '55 sedan I think was just a dark blue repaint that the owner probably liked. The '55 color chips show a darker blue than that.

That '56 Sky Hawk dark blue looks to be the same color, Air Force Blue Poly, as the President sedan in the original pic.

After a '64 Gran Turismo Hawk, then a '63, a '56 Sky Hawk is my favorite Hawk. Hardtop body, no fins, Studebaker V8, clean lines. They are actually rarer than a '56 Golden Hawk.

sda

This was the same interior I had on my 62 Galaxie. This one appears to have been modifed to a floor shift while mine was a column shift. Note no seat belts and mine didn’t have them either. A practical and hardly fancy interior. https://autoblog-img.vast.com/6803704396425805399/17/r/1466x-?format=webp

andre1969

Maybe it's not fancy, but I think that '62 Galaxie's interior shows pretty well, in that aqua color. Plus, if it's just a base Galaxie, and not a 500 or XL, that was around the same price point as a Chevy Bel Air, wasn't it? Or maybe even a Biscayne?

uplanderguy

It took me a minute to realize that in '62 and I think '63, there was a Galaxie that wasn't a Galaxie 500. I think in '63 they added a '300' that was below the base Galaxie, but I'm shaky on that.

Speaking of that, yesterday I saw (and heard) the tomato red '63 1/2 Galaxie 500 with 406, 4-speed, blackwalls, and dog dish caps going up our hill. There's salt on the roads here already so I was surprised to see him having it out-and-about.

I think '62 was the last year Ford had the two distinct columns headed up to the steering wheel. That always struck me as very old-fashioned.

Still, a '61 Starliner in any color but their tomato-y red is probably tied pretty close to a '56 Victoria or '58 Fairlane 500 Victoria as my favorite Ford. Also I like the unibody '61-63 pickups a lot.

imidazol97

The Mayflower Studebaker 1966 picture shows color shift to the green. In the shadow of the building and in the white socks on the "pilgrim" the shift is clear. I just think the color shift, common in print photos and in early color films may have added green to the car's color. It might have been a shift due to the aging of the print if that's a scan of an early color print.

I wonder if the VIN on that President is known? Are there records available? I'm always amazed at the documentation by Studebaker and the fan group.

I've often wondered if I could find the VIN for my 1967 Mustang that was my first new car to find what happened to it. I wonder if it's in some owner's hands being treasured for being a 289 with 3-speed manual. I wonder if State Farm insurance has it in its archived records.

uplanderguy

I've often wondered if I could find the VIN for my 1967 Mustang that was my first new car to find what happened to it. I wonder if it's in some owner's hands being treasured for being a 289 with 3-speed manual. I wonder if State Farm insurance has it in its archived records.

That's be cool, but I'd be surprised if you could find it.

The Studebaker Museum Archives are wonderful about that; well, mostly for '60's models where they have specific dealer destination, and original owners' names, but of course they're not dealing with Big Three sales volume numbers.

A decade or so ago, it took a year, but with help of an Avanti expert and the museum archives, and the original owner's description and dealer name, we first found out a lady's Avanti's serial number that she was trying to find, and then later found the actual car via a post I'd put for her on the AACA site. The car had been painted and mongrelized and she wasn't interested, but cool that out of 3,800-odd '63 Avantis built, she could see that the car survived.

I'd love to find some of my Dad's old cars, but where we lived, I fear the worst.

uplanderguy

RE.: The '56 Stude color chips--that pink at the bottom left column was called 'Rosebud'. When I first dropped my '63 off at the restoration place, they were finishing up a '56 Golden Hawk in that color and white. It really was striking--looked like Strawberry Quik and white milk. The owner told me a few years later he was at a rest stop on the Ohio Turnpike and came out and Chubby Checker was looking at his car.

sda

Yes for a minute Ford introduced the 300 as the base model full size, then it became the Custom/Custom 500. What I found interesting the 500 on the Galaxie 500 referred to the success Ford had in racing.

fintail

I am pretty sure most of the cars my parents had when I was a kid were turned into Chinese toasters years ago. Heck, the T-bird was kaput when we got rid of it in 1985, and I suspect things like the Horizon didn't make it out of the 90s. S-10 Blazer probably didn't make it into the teens, if that. I did see our Tempo as late as 2003 or so, still looked decent, but I'd be astonished as if it exists today, as it had 190K on it when it was moved on in 1999.

I would like to know what happened to the 60 Ford wagon - I have a suspicion that it was exported, either that, or the guy who bought it just put it away and never did anything with it. No record or images of the car out there, and a red and white Country Sedan is a pretty rare bird. I know the 66 Galaxie was in a moderate accident and may have been a lost cause depending on how the owner wanted to proceed. Not sure what happened to the 68 Fairlane either - I swear I saw it in a town about 50 miles away around Y2K, but that's it. I kind of don't want to know what has become of MBs I owned in the past, as I would probably be irked.

uplanderguy said:

I've often wondered if I could find the VIN for my 1967 Mustang that was my first new car to find what happened to it. I wonder if it's in some owner's hands being treasured for being a 289 with 3-speed manual. I wonder if State Farm insurance has it in its archived records.

That's be cool, but I'd be surprised if you could find it.

The Studebaker Museum Archives are wonderful about that; well, mostly for '60's models where they have specific dealer destination, and original owners' names, but of course they're not dealing with Big Three sales volume numbers.

A decade or so ago, it took a year, but with help of an Avanti expert and the museum archives, and the original owner's description and dealer name, we first found out a lady's Avanti's serial number that she was trying to find, and then later found the actual car via a post I'd put for her on the AACA site. The car had been painted and mongrelized and she wasn't interested, but cool that out of 3,800-odd '63 Avantis built, she could see that the car survived.

I'd love to find some of my Dad's old cars, but where we lived, I fear the worst.

sda

I suspect most of the cars I sold over ten years ago are no longer. Some years after mom’s 78 Olds 98 was traded in for her 87 Taurus, my parents were driving to the beach for the weekend and she saw her 98 in a driveway. She knew it was hers as it had a unique paint job that I did. When the 98 was purchased used in 82 it was silver with a silver half vinyl top and black pinstripes and in need of repaint, the silver was dull and had started to peel. I changed the body color to black, mar-hyded the top to refresh the silver and added silver pinstripes that matched the original black. This was a Regency coupe so pinstripes were standard. It really looked sharp, she loved it. That color combination wasn’t a factory offering. I think I’ve shared this story before, mom was really upset that she couldn’t say goodbye to her 98 as dad and I completed the trade and purchase of her Taurus same day. She thought we’d be back with the 98 and complete the purchase next day. It really upset her. Lesson learned and that mistake has not been repeated.

uplanderguy

Couple follow-ups:

I texted the son of my former Stude dealer friend the smiling 'pilgrim' picture to wish him and his family a Happy Thanksgiving. He replied, "Man, am I glad I wasn't old enough to be that guy!". I laughed.

About finding serial numbers: I was at the Stude Museum for a presentation probably two months ago, and had scheduled some time at the Archives across the street. I have a lady friend who years ago told me, when she found out I liked Studebakers, "Oh! We had one years ago and I was embarrassed of it! Of course we had it into the '70's as our family car". As best as she could remember (she's 64, like me), she remembered her Dad saying it was a late one and was a year old when they bought it, and that her uncle worked at the place too. So I found the dealer number of her hometown dealer (Wauseon, OH), and went through the retail sales cards backwards, as they are filed first by month, then dealer number.

That dealer apparently didn't even make it into 1966 as it was sometime in '65 I first found ANY cards.

I first found a card for someone with her maiden name, who traded in a '64 Stude for a '65 in May. That was her uncle, who the card said was the Service Manager there. His '65 was a white four-door Commander V8 with red interior--283 GM engine.

When I got back to March '65, I found her parents' card....they bought a new '64 (!) Commander V8 four-door sedan. A '64 still used South Bend-built Studebaker engines. She always said the car was green but when I took the VIN (a Canada vin, BTW), the production order (build sheet) was not in the file. One before, one after, were. Hmmm. I could tell it was a '64 Commander V8 4-door from info on the retail sale card. Her Dad traded nothing in.

But, bottom line here--not even knowing the specific year of the car, I found the serial number in about twenty minutes at the archives.

Just thumbing through the file drawers looking, seemed like I stumbled across a fair amount of dealers at that late date with "...Garage" and/or "...and Son" in their name.

fintail

Spotted this nearly 63 year old relic out on a foggy icy morning - I think I have seen it out and about before: