I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

lemko

...a somewhat ragged light green 1970 Chevrolet Impala convertible. I've always loved the look of the 1970 full-size Chevrolets. My Uncle Daniel had a beautiful dark blue metallic 1970 Impala Custom 2-door hardtop with the unusual concave rear window.

Kirstie_H

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kirstie_h

PF_Flyer

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fintail

I think that Alpina I used to see was like a 528 or something. I remember it had a bodykit and those lacy spoked wheels that were in vogue at the time. I was around 11 or 12, so it was c. 1988. I didn't care for it too much though, I was more into MB even back then. At the time in my area, I remember I had my eyes on a then very modern 300E, and a W126 380SE that lived a few blocks away.

I also remember when I was in 7th grade, a teacher of mine traded her stunning chrome bundt wheeled black 300CD in for a new black 190E. I liked the new car more then...now it is a different story.

OK I want this car. What a lovely automatic adenauer in the same color as my fintail The auction unfortunately was just ended early.

210delray

I saw a 1961 Chrysler getting filled up at a gas station yesterday. I think it was a 2-door hardtop.

Weird fins and those diagonally canted quad headlights.

stickguy

local small dealer had a '95 IIRC S320. Dark blue, light brown guts. Looked pretty nice. Not really rare, but not something you stumble upon everyday.

Think they wanted 16,900 for it, but I didn't see the mileage.

andys120

Speaking of Adenauers I rewatched the Billy Wilder classic One, Two, Three! in which Jimmy Cagney plays a Coca-Cola exec who swans around Berlin in a gorgeous black Adenauer.

It also features a contemporary Moskvitch which is described by it's Russian driver thusly:
"Is wonderful car, is exact copy of 1937 Nash".

Mr_Shiftright

Like many old cars, it's much nicer to look at than to drive or own. Money pits all the way. They made a 300C though, 4-door convertible, and that might be worth restoring....might..they are SO expensive to put back together and as the guy in the film says, all you have is a '37 Nash to drive around. Buy a 220a Cabriolet of the same vintage and be much more happy for less money.

lemko

...a 1968 Pontiac LeMans convertible. This one had a poor repaint with a very ratty top.

Mr_Shiftright

I always like the early 60s Pontiac...the squarish ones. Great styling, even with the dreaded "slim jim" trans and a very gas hungry engine. Was that a 361 or am I in the fog of forgetting?

andys120

Was that a 361 or am I in the fog of forgetting?

Big Ponchos had 389s or 421s, smaller ones had 326s. Coulda been 361s in '60 or '61, I don't recall either.

fintail

I think I could enjoy driving that Adenauer...with wide whitewall radials, sunroof open, windows down, on a summer day...yes. It's like a big fintail. As the ad states...no need to restore it, just drive it.

16.9K seems steep for a 95 S320 unless it was extremely low mileage with obsessive maintenance and upgrades (evaporator esp).

There's a 99 C43 AMG at the local Porsche lot here. It's in amazing cosmetic condition - and I am quite a stickler about such things. Miles are a little highish - 75K I think. Silver on black, and they want 21K for it IIRC. It's a little small for what I like. I think they only sold 500 or 600 of them in NA each year...so it is obscure.

Someone at work has turned up in a pimped out c. 87 FWD Caddy sedan. It's "by Thomas' and has a vinyl top, fake Rolls grille, ugly directional wheels, etc. Cars like this really put cement in Cadillac's boots.

I think there was a Pontiac 361 earlier in the 60s, yes.

Mr_Shiftright

If you have to have an Adenauer (God knows why) you'd want the last models, the 300d, which are much better in every way than the early cars. if you choose an early car, be prepared for longggggg stopping distances and a clumbersome handling. Try to avoid the automatic transmission if you can. Actually a 300 sedan would be a great car to just sit in and not go anywhere.

fintail

I think I'll still seek out a sunroof LWB 300SE fintail.

andre1969

the first Pontiac V-8 was the 347 CID from 1955. It put out 200 hp, but there might have been lower-output version that put out 180. Or I might be thinking DeSoto there, which in 1955 offered 185 or 200 hp, depending on whether you got a 2-bbl or 4.

Anyway, I think it got punched out to around 370 or 371 CID for 1957-58, and then for '59 it became the 389. In 1967 it got bumped up a bit to a 400 CID, which it remained at until 1979 when it was finally dropped.

There was never a Pontiac 361 that I recall. There WAS a 326 that was offered on the intermediate cars, which was ultimately replaced by the Pontiac 350. Only 361's I can think of are the 1958 Edsel unit or the Mopar unit. I dunno about the Edsel unit, but the 361 was top dog in Dodges and DeSotos in '58, and even in '59-60 was still pretty potent. For '61 though its compression was cut, and hp dropped from 295 to 265, and it was basically just the low-line big-block, gracing cars like the Newport, Dodge 880, etc. As the cars got bigger, the 383 then became the base big-block.

fintail

You're right. I just googled 'Pontiac 361' and came back with nothing of merit. I must have had the Edsel engine in my head. Hey, a 60 Edsel looks like a Pontiac!

lemko

...was a poor copy of a '59 Pontiac. I saw pictures of the original '60 Edsel. It was to have a prominent vertical bar theme in place of the horsecollar grille. Somebody actual went a built a '60 Edsel convertible to look like this prototype and gave it "Citation" level trim. It was featured in a back issue of Collectible Automobile. I wish I could find a picture of it online. It is truly unique.

Seeing how Pontiac styling evolved in the 1960s, I wonder if a "1968 Edsel" would've resembled the 1968 Catalina/Bonneville in some way.

fintail

It might have...and through most of the 60s, looking like a Pontiac wouldn't have been a bad thing.

Speaking of the Edsel...we all know what led to its demise, but was responsibility ever taken for it? Did someone own up, or did the overpaid and irresponsible duck and hide, like they did with the Aztek?

lancerfixer

This doesn't change my extremely low opinion of air cooled VWs one bit, but I know there are some hangers-on around here.
http://www.copleymotorcars.com/sportscars_n_other5_45.4vo707.html

andys120

I'll bet a short ride in a VW-powered dune buggy would change your opinion in a hurry, Lancer.

-Hanger-on :-)

Mr_Shiftright

I love VW Things...the best possible incarnation of a VW...and dune buggies are cool too, and Formula V cars. The rest? GAK!

EDSEL: I don't know as anyone was hung for that debacle but lessons were certainly learned--the big one being that sociologists, marketers and focus groups can be WRONG WRONG WRONG. Basically what happened is that Ford convinced itself that there was a market niche which, amazingly, did not even exist. It was an artificial concoction of eggheads who didn't know cars. Also, no one DARED tell Henry Ford that the name "Edsel" was an atrocious choice.

toomanyfumes

brings back memories. My dad has a '59 bus when I was a kid. Same bare bones dash and steering wheel , I still remember it. He bought it for traveling with the family. Unfortunately, the thing was too slow for interstate travel! It would barely pull 50 mph up a slight hill, loaded up. He didn't keep it long, sold it to an aging hippie.

andre1969

the biggest reason the Edsel failed was probably the recession that hit in 1958, more than any failing of the car itself!

They had actually forecast to sell 100,000 Edsels in 1958, and ended up selling about 63,000. So basically they had a 63% success rate. When you look at how far most other middle-priced brands plummeted from 1957 to 1958, well they fell a lot more than that! Chrysler built about 50% as many cars. DeSoto built about 42% as many in '58 as '57, and Dodge was down by a similarly scary amount. Plymouth probably sold around 60-65% as many cars in '58 as in '57. Mercury got cut roughly in half, and over at the B-O-P group at GM, on a percentage basis compared to 1957, Oldsmobile actually did the best, so that definitely goes to prove that beauty isn't everything!

Basically, what happened was that in the 50's the middle-priced market just grew too quickly in the good days, and when the market collapsed in 1958, it hit that bloated market the hardest. A lot of people simply held off on buying cars altogether, but many people who would otherwise have bought something like a Buick, Mercury, Chrysler, etc instead bought a Ford, Chevy, or Plymouth, so the lower lines didn't suffer as much. And of course Rambler took off in sales, and the recession gave Studebaker a stay of execution, as they switched to building compact cars for '59.

There was also a major reshuffling of model hierarchies by the dawn of 1960 as well, reflecting the contracted middle price market. Oldsmobile really wasn't affected too much, but Buick was brought downscale and roughly lined up as a parallel to Olds, whereas through most of the 50's it would straddle it, with the cheap specials undercutting Olds and the big Supers and Roadmasters reaching almost into Caddy territory. Pontiac also wasn't affected too much, by this reshuffling in the mid-priced field, but back then GM could afford to have too many divisions. Ford and Chrysler couldn't.

Chrysler ultimately phased out DeSoto, while moving Dodge downscale. Whereas the volume Pontiac or Mercury back then was a definite step up from a volume Chevy or Ford, the volume Dodge, which was the Dart in '60-62, was really in the same league with Plymouth. In fact, the ads would compare the Dart to Ford, Chevy, and PLYMOUTH! So it was pretty apparent that Dodge was moving downmarket. DeSoto was phased out and Chrysler pretty much moved down into DeSoto's old territory. Whereas once upon a time, a New Yorker was just a step below a Caddy or Lincoln or Imperial, by the early 60's it had lost a lot of prestige.

A similar fate befell the mid-priced makes at Ford. The '58-59 Mercury sold horribly compared to the earlier models, and the only reason the '60 posted decent sales was because of the Comet. Which, ironically, was originally slated to be an Edsel model. In fact, for 1961, the whole Mercury lineup was moved downscale in price and prestige, essentially abandoning its traditional spot and taking over for Edsel.

So in a way, the Mercury of today is essentially the Esdel of yesterday, moreso than the Mercury. Little more than a rebadged Ford, and little, if any, jump in prestige.

Mr_Shiftright

Well I think you are being a bit of apologist with the term "63% success rate" as this equals an F in high school, but otherwise, well done analysis.

I think that's true--they already HAD an Edsel, called the Mercury. There was no room between Ford and Mercury for another marque.

fintail

Yes, the Edsel being a much weirder looking Mercury by another name, combined with the 1958 recession, killed it more than anything else.

But who's brainchild was it?

Henry Ford was dead for about 10 years when the car was launched...are you referring to Henry Ford II, Shifty?

Speaking of New Yorker, I saw a black 62 New Yorker 4 door HT, with gold emblems. Not in bad shape. Also spotted a sad Renault Fuego.

Mr_Shiftright

Henry Ford II, yes. The original HF died in '47 I believe.

jrosasmc

Henry Ford II was a real hell of a guy from what I've read...being responsible for Iacocca's 1978 firing and other things.

Mr_Shiftright

Well that did Ford some good and Chrysler some good. Both companies made a comeback from the edge of the cliff by the early 80s.

I saw my 2nd Nissan Patrol in two weeks--that is a rare bird. I'd like to have one.

andre1969

...I must live in a stupid county, because here a 63% is a "D", and with the way they're forced to pass a certain percentage of kids these days, a 63% would probably curve to a B plus! :-)

Still, yeah, only making 63% of your forecast is horrible, but they were making that forecast when the times were much better. The market downturn in 1958 came on very quickly, and took everybody by surprise.

IIRC, Chrysler took 20% of the market in 1957, which is extremely good for them. I think they predicted that they'd take 25% of it for '58. Instead, they took something like 15%. And while '59 volume was higher, their market actually slipped to 12-13%, as FoMoCo bounced back and GM came on with a vengeance.

I think Ford did a good job at cutting their losses with the Edsel, though. Once they realized it would be a failure, they cut it completely after 2 years and a few months, and salvaged much of the basics of it to revitalize Mercury in the 60's. In contrast, look how long they drag out the death of divisions nowadays. The announcement for Olds came out sometime in early 2000, and I think they finally quit building them just a few months ago, and they're still in stock. And everybody knew, even if they didn't want to admit it, that Plymouth was going to get ditched about 9 or 10 years before the announcement was actually made!

fintail

Ebay time:

Street rod? Hot rod? Ummm...no...I can probably push my fintail as fast as this thing will go. Nice car though

I wonder how this made it over here

Shifty=mobile

Cool to see an old car with so much documentation, sad to see it run down like this

A worthy project, if one likes traditional 'classic' cars

To contrast that dopey Packard woody hot rod

I don't know why this is bid so high, it needs everything

In the dictionary under 'wasted resources'

Neat little gnat of a car

I had a toy of one of these as a kid. I kind of like it

Not what I think of when I think 'Road Runner'. Better than most I am sure...but not a museum piece

Probably one of the most annoying ads I have ever read. Shame, as this is the kind of car I want to find to give to my dad as a surprise gag gift. I don't think being in a movie for 5 seconds is such a big deal. And those 60 Fords did have weak floors

Interesting German-bodied Ford. Even more odd is that in my collection of oddball old car pics, I have an identical car, wearing some WWII Rube Goldberg fuel device

210delray

... to look at all your eBay selections...I'll have to check them out at work;-)

Warm day here; I saw a gray 1958 Chevy Biscayne 2-door sedan, not in the best condition, but being driven; a 1967 or '68 Plymouth Barracuda convertible (blue with a white top) and a ratty yellow Jeep Commando, both in front of a car repair shop, and a nice-looking 1970 Olds Ninety-Eight 4-door sedan in gold with a black vinyl roof in the parking lot of a local gym.

andre1969

has cloning musclecars actually gotten to the point that it's even worth it to do it to a late 70's design?! That 1980 "Road Runner" only has a slant six in it! And while things got bad for Detroit, well, for everybody, around that timeframe, I don't think they ever got so bad that Mopar put a slant six in the Roadrunner!

Now that I think of it, was there even a Roadrunner in 1980? For some reason I'm thinking it was only offered from like 77-79, and I want to say the standard engine was either a 318-4bbl or a 360-2bbl, with a copcar 360-4bbl optional.

I think that's just a cheap, basic Volare that somebody has tried to bling up some. It doesn't even have air conditioning, and I would think a Roadrunner would have a floor shift and console standard, but I could be wrong.

I had a chance to buy a '79 Volare back in 1994-95, and could've gotten it for about $500 or so. I don't think it was a Roadrunner, but it did have a 360-4bbl and a floor shift/console/bucket seats. IIRC it had those louvered rear windows and I think it even had T-tops! It also had a HUGE smash in one of the rear quarter panels, but otherwise was rust-free.

Just to show how bad things had gotten by this time though, this Volare with a 360-4bbl actually felt SLOWER than my '68 Dart, which just has a 318-2bbl! It was also smaller inside, had a smaller trunk, and wasn't put together as well. But then, that's the way they made 'em in the 70's!

andys120

Road Runners! Not! The last of those was turned out by Mopar about a decade before that sorry Volare-based RR wannabe.LOL!

It's to bad there aren't more photos of that Drauz-bodied Ford Cabrio, it looks interesting and I love the color. I can't think of the fuel that they converted some cars to run on in WWII but it had something to do with coal.

fintail

I googled it, and found some references to the 1980 Roadrunner. Of course, they might as well have not made it that year...they might as well have stopped making it about 10 years earlier.

If you look at the photo of that Ford, there's a pull-down menu that lets you select about a dozen pics.

Yeah, I think the Germans were able to get low grade oil out of liquefied coal, and they also had some weird conversions that would run on gas of some kind, I have seen photos of cars with large bag-based apparatus on them.

For a long time I have had some interest in the role of and fate of civilian cars in WWII Europe. Especially all the cars the Russians took as war booty, and pressed into service for decades to come. It is not uncommon at all to find a prewar MB or Opel in Russia, with domestic running gear fitted 30 years after the war. They got some use out of those old cars. You'll sometimes find American cars over there too, as they were the higher end of the market in the late 30s in Europe, and were saved.

And speaking of war cars, Here's another view of that Ford...what is the weird pod thing on the drivers side fender? I have seen that thing on many WWII period German passenger car photos

Mr_Shiftright

RE: Shifty-mobile.

I had to laugh at his comment about the interior, that it needed "cleaning" and "some" upholstery work. Yeah, like door panels, headliner, dash, seats and carpets. Still I'd pay $600 for it, but not much more in this condition.

41 Packard: Being a high-line Super 8 model by Darrin, this car, even though a 4-door sedan, is worth some money BUT the seller is looking for a restored car price with a car that needs restoration work! DUH!

1930 Packard 7 pass sedan: Bid is market correct at the moment but anything beyond 12,000 is starting to get foolish.

210delray

I saw a tricked-out 1969 white Camaro Z28 with rear tires that appeared to be a about a foot wide.

And a gorgeous 1957 Cadillac 2-door hardtop, dark red with a white roof.

Mr_Shiftright

Lot of people are "tubbing" their Z28s and Camaros. I bet that's what you saw.

andys120

I missed that memo, Shifty. What's "tubbing"?

kyfdx

I knew if I waited, someone else would ask...

Mr_Shiftright

"tubbing" is a mod for pro-street racers...you actually modify the rear floor pan at the trunk area to allow huge rear tires to fit into the trunk space. If you opened the trunk on a tubbed car, you'd see huge aluminum wheel wells protruding into the trunk. Of course you usually do suspension work as well back there, and a stronger rear end, etc.

andre1969

will usually take a good chunk out of the back seat, as well. Not that a Camaro or similar ponycar had much of one to begin with! I've seen a few cars like Darts, Novas, etc that have been tubbed as well.

seminole_kev

Forgot to mention it, but about a week ago, I saw a weird car that I just had no idea what it was. I suspect it was some sort of kit car, but I have no idea.

Best way I could describe it is that it looked like if you made a BMW Z8 into a Plymouth Prowler. It was open wheeled in the front, open top (didn't look like it had one at all) and modern looking, but that's about all I could tell. It didn't look like a sloppy, build it yourself kit car though. Had enough touches to suggest that somebody was cranking a few of these out at a factory, could be wrong though. It is driving me nuts that I can even ballpark figure out what this thing could be.

debaser853

Saw a pristine Audi Quattro Coupe pull into a parking lot yesterday. Red, looked like orignal wheels but REALLY wide tires. Looked really good. Also had some sort of exhaust work, so it sounded quite nice also.

lancerfixer

Shot in the dark here, but was it a Panoz AIV?

http://www.seriouswheels.com/1990-1999/1998-Panoz-AIV-Black-FA.htm

seminole_kev

you da man. That's gotta be it. In fact, I thought about checking if it was a Panoz, but I didn't think they had anything like that. The one that I saw was in silver, which I think helped make me think of a BMW Z8 for some reason. Couldn't think of a better way to describe it.

Good job on that Lancer. That will probably be my obscure car find for the year.

Like this one, except in silver. I didn't get to see the front of it as I saw its side-rear view.

kyfdx

'87 420SEL at lunch today..

It had temporary tags... which is how I knew it was an '87...

Tired looking gold color with matching interior.. In decent looking shape.. no trim missing, but kind of faded..

Mr_Shiftright

Powered by a Roush Ford V8 I believe. I didn't drive one but was driven IN one. Pretty cool and very quick but not worth the money IMO. Also not very attractive...kinda "froggy" don't you think?

Panoz builds some very credible cars.

seminole_kev

...at least my guesses were enough to get someone in the right direction. Seemed well built enough not to be just a kit car slapped together in someone's garage.

michaellno

The '87 MB 420 was gold? My old boss bought a 560SEL brand new in '88, I think, and it was a "champagne" color with matching interior. He stuck the vanity plate "TH BEAZT" on it.

kyfdx

Gold, tan, beige, champagne.... take your pick.. One of those popular "earth tones" from the '80s..