I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

michaellno

There is an early 80's version for sale not too far from my house. Silver, my guess is that it's the 380SEC. From 75' it looks to be in pretty good condition, but I'm wondering where fin would price something like this.

No idea of mileage or condition.

andys120

An original looking (unrestored) white '64 Mustang fastback, parked at a second-had dealership. I didn't see the fender badge for the 260/289 so prolly a six.

fintail

Yep 210, you saw a 300SD. There was no SDL until 86 IIRC. I bet an extreme percentage o those old tanks are still on the road compared to other cars made the same year.

I think those 126 coupes were very pretty cars. Almost a little too much so...the stereotypical driver of one in my head is some fur-wearing 80s trophy wife...but still a nice looking car, especially for its size. The 126 was a great platform, especially given the period in which it was made - the dark ages. It must have seemed like a car from the future back then. And yep, that window would go all the way down.

380SEC would be 82-85...not the strongest engine. Even pristine it really shouldn't do more than 10K or so, and you can easily go half that and less for a worn car. It's a lot of machinery for the money...but a lot of potential repairs for the money. With MB, it is certainly the best idea to buy the best you can find.

ghulet

...about the trophy wife, I remember Sue Ellen Ewing drove one on 'Dallas' (I think it was a 380SEC, maybe a 500SEC later). Bobby and Pam drove an SL, J.R. always had an SEL of one vintage or another.

fintail

I thought I had a vague memory of something like that. Must be where my image of the car comes from.

I recall the cheating drunken yuppie woman in 'Creepshow II' has a 126 SEL that she hits the hitchhiker with...I haven't seen that in years..

au94

Saw a Diahatsu (sp?) Rocky with a mild lift kit on the way home yesterday. Still rolling along, not smoking or anything.

Saw a new Lotus Elise. It was a terrible orange color and had the top on. Looks funny with the top on, I think.

Saw a G500 on the way in this morning.

fintail

Lately a couple nice old Lincolns have turned up on local used lots. A Volvo dealer of all things has a nice looking c. 78 Mark V, in a maroon IIRC. And another lot has a low mileage (I think around 50K) c.74 Mark IV, I think in the same color.

lemko

...beautiful maroon 1969 Buick Electra 225 convertible with a black top.

lemko

Drop-dead gorgeous white 1968 Cadillac Sedan DeVille. Too bad this one wasn't for sale!

andys120

Saab 96 (V4) from ca. 1963-68. This one was Dove Grey, had nice chrome and straight bodywork. Looked as good as the day it first hit the road (ugly then, ugly now).

lemmer

Some old guy in my neighborhood drives a 911 GT2 to work regularly. Another guy switches between a late model Maserati and a 944S2. At least I get to see these nice autos cruising around.

210delray

2-door sedan, in gray primer. Looked solid.

andys120

I saw a couple of oldies that couldn't have been more different. One was a Ford Fairmont
ca. late 70s/early 80s vintage, crapped out, missing wheel covers, sitting forlornly in a gas station.

Then I saw a Citroen DS-21! It had shiny black paint, looked straight and was going down the interstate at 65 or 70 with just a little bit of smoke coming out the tailpipe. I don't see those more than once every five years but they are something to see.

Oh, and I saw a pretty nice Eagle Vision TSi, remember them?

michaellno

A neighbor down the street from me has an Eagle Vision .. not sure if it's the TSi model, but it has the dual exhaust, which indicates the 3.5L engine....

debaser853

Eagle Vision = first mass produced car with selectable auto transmission? I seem to think that the 911 was offered with one earlier, yes or no? Any others?

A great car for its time, I believe. Shocking styling, performance, etc, for 1993.

kyfdx

Wasn't the Vision just a re-badged Intrepid?

The whole Eagle division was just a brand to give the Jeep dealers a way to sell Chrysler cars..

davem2001

Yeah, it was just a rebadged Intrepid/LHS.... They also had a version of the Mitsu Eclipse/Plymouth Laser called the Talon...

I thought they sort of made a mistake getting away from AWD wagons - that was their niche back when they were part of AMC....they could have been like an American version of Subaru if they stayed with the AWD niche... would have fit better with Jeep, too.

andre1969

has a '94 Vision, with the 3.3 engine. One thing that makes it REALLY obscure is that it had around 180,000 miles on it...ON THE ORIGINAL TRANSMISSION!!

It's hard to believe today just how revolutionary these cars were when they first hit the streets in 1993. They really did breathe some new life into the domestic car market, and suddenly made bigger cars exciting again. When you figure that they got 214 hp out of a 3.5 V-6, and put it in a mass-produced mainstream sedan, that was nothing short of astounding for back then! Just for comparison, The Taurus was only putting out 140 hp from the 3.0 AND the 3.8 V-6. You could get the SHO, but those were very limited-production. And the typical non-supercharged GM 3.8 was only doing around 170 hp. There was the 3.4 DOHC that was pretty potent, but also troublesome. Unfortunately, the reliability just wasn't there with the earlier models, which had transmission failures galore, air conditioning problems, and the 3.5's tended to have water pumps that failed early. From around '93-95 they also used plastic front fenders that would warp and distort. GM used plastic front fenders in the C- and H-bodies around that timeframe too, but I think they were much more successful at it. I think electrical problems and issues with sensors, valves, etc...all that fun stuff that makes the car run like crap and stall out, and is hard to track down, were also very common.

If the quality had been there, Chrysler would have really had a winner on their hands with the first-gen LH cars. They improved them considerably, quality-wise, for the 1998 redesign, and for a few years they seemed like they'd be another winner, but then everybody else improved, too. New Impala and more mainstream looking Taurus for 2000, and as the Camry, Altima, and Accord redesigned and grew larger, they were suddenly competing almost directly with the LH cars instead of with the smaller "cloud cars", as they used to.

lemko

...I was truly in love with the 1994 Chrysler New Yorker when it debuted but ending up getting a new 1994 Cadillac DeVille instead.

andre1969

in retrospect, you probably made the right choice! As for the New Yorker, interestingly they didn't build too many on the LH platform. The car was all but identical to the LHS, but the NYer had hubcaps instead of alloys, a column shift, and a bench seat with a leather pattern that just seemed out of touch with the rest of the car. It wasn't the pimpy tufted pillow look that was a New Yorker trademark for years, but more of a simple vertical-striped pattern that made me think of when someone re-does the interior of an antique car, but instead of going for the original look just does the whole thing in vertical stripes.

My real estate agent, the one that sold me my condo in 1994, had an LHS. It already had a rubber seal or two coming off in the rear door area...and it was a brand-new car!! At least my Intrepid waited until it was about a year and a half old before a door seal shrunk up! :P

michaellno

I travelled to Quebec once and was given an LH with the 3.5L V6 as my rental car. I had to drive 100 or so miles to my client site, and was truly impressed with the dynamics of that car. Also had a rental Vision in Philadelphia. Way, way better than the Corsicas and Grand Ams I usually got.

Before I bought my Saturn, I really thought about getting a 300M with the 250HP V6. Unfortunately, it was just outside of my price range, but I really liked the looks of the 300M.

davem2001

I didn't know they ever built a New Yorker on the LH platform? I thought they were all called Concordes, LHSs, and 300Ms

kyfdx

The New Yorker came first.. then they phased out that name for the Concorde LHS, right?..

I'm pretty sure there was a New Yorker the first couple of years of the LH..

kyfdx

'94 New Yorker

andre1969

the LH cars in 1993. That first year they had the Dodge Intrepid, Eagle Vision, and Chrysler Concorde. However, in 1993 they still had the older, boxier Dynasty, New Yorker/5th Avenue, and Imperial. The LH cars, as they stood, were more than up to the task of replacing the Dynasty and NYer. However, the 5th Avenue and Imperial were larger, roomier, more upscale (i.e., pimpier), and Chrysler evidently saw that something more upscale was needed to replace them.

So for 1994, a more high-spec version of the LH came out. It rode the same 113" wheelbase as the Vision/Intrepid/Concorde, but was a few inches longer: around 207", versus around 203 for the others. Inside it had a bigger back seat and a larger trunk. It's styling was more formal, with a more upright C-pillar vertical taillights, and a more upright grille, but still, it didn't come off as stodgy. At this point, the execs at Chrysler probably didn't know if a sporty car this size would sell, so they basically offered it in two flavors: sporty LHS and more mundane New Yorker. the 5th Avenue and Imperial names were retired. Both the LHS and NYer had the same 3.5 V-6, but the NYer had a bench seat, chrome grille, column shift, and was probably sprung more softly. The LHS had buckets, console, stiffer suspension, and, IIRC the grille was either grayed out or body color. Well, the LHS sold well, but the NYer didn't, so it was pulled after 1996, while the LHS was sold through 1997, seeing the first-gen LH to the end.

In 1998, when the LH cars were redesigned, initially they only offered the Intrepid and Concorde. I think they were in the process of converting the 3.5 to an aluminum block, but it wasn't ready yet, so they had to delay the launch of the replacement LHS, and the 300M to 1999. IIRC, the 300M was originally supposed to have been the Eagle Vision replacement, but since Eagle was being phased out, they decided to make it a Chrysler.

This time around, the 300M sold very well, but the LHS wasn't a strong seller. The LHS was discontinued in name after 2001. However, for 2002, Chrysler put the LHS fascia on all the Concordes, and what had been the LHS was now called the Concorde Limited.

davem2001

Which one had the oval grille below the bumper? Sort of reminded me of a Jaguar from the front...I guess that was the Concorde?

andre1969

the oval grille one was the '98-01 Concorde. I think that one was my favorite of all the 2nd-gen LH front-ends. That fascia also made those cars a bit longer. I think they were like 209.1", versus around 207.4" for the LHS front end, around 203" for the Intrepid, and only around 197" for the 300M. The Concorde/LHS had longer rears too, though, which gave them a bigger trunk and bigger back seat than an Intrepid. The 300M had the same size interior as an Intrepid, but was, pardon the pun, trunk-ated, because they wanted to get it in under 5 meters, so that it would sell better in European markets.

davem2001

I must say, you are a freakin' virtual encyclopedia of knowledge!

wimsey1

There is a decent looking 2nd series AMC Javelin, medium blue. Also, one guy has 4 Camaros, one of each generation, sitting at his place. Guess I know what he likes in a car.
Mid 70's Eldo convertible for sale. This one was sitting in his yard last fall too.
Saw two gen 1 Firebirds last weds. on the road.

andre1969

the Eldorado convertible, especially the '75-76 model with the rectangular headlights. Unfortunately, I sat in one that was for sale at Carlisle this spring, and I got to see, first-hand, what "oil-canning" means! I've seen cowl shake before, usually when going over a bump or something, or if your sheetmetal's too thin, sometimes I can see a little hood shimmy on a car even when it's idling, but never, EVER, have I seen a hood dance around like the surface of a bowl of Jell-O!

I wonder if a '75 LeSabre would have the same problem? Or maybe, since it's a smaller car (not by much, though), it might not be as bad...less unbraced expanse of hood, maybe?

andre1969

thanks! Sometimes I wish I could put my mind to more productive uses, though. For example, don't try to get me to recite anything that I learned in Calculus back in college! And if you want to see me get tongue-tied real quick, ask me to write down my job description! :surprise:

davem2001

I know what you mean...I have tons of semi-useless information about sports and cars floating around in my brain! LOL

andys120

Driving thru a teeming thunderstorm this afternoon I passed a guy in a '59 or '60 'vette
(Maybe DaveyM or Andre can tell us the difference ). Well the poor guy was wiping the inside of his windshield trying to get the interior condensation off.

We forget how handy the a/c is when it comes to conditions like that. I didn't even have to adjust the ACC on my car :P .

Nice 'Vette though, I always enjoy seeing a C1.

shipo

...that as I crested a hill today I saw a car that required me to do a double take. Yup, no mistaking that pedestrian visage, I was catching up to none other than a Dodge Omni (the boxy Rabbit wannabe version), and as I got closer I was stunned to see that the damn thing was in practically showroom condition. What the...? I thought that every last one of those unfortunate cars was long since in their graves. Either the owner kept that thing up on blocks for the last 25 years, or he/she spent some serious time and money maintaining it.

I think the sight of that car, in the condition that it was in, has disturbed me so much that I may have to spend a year or two talking to my friendly neighborhood shrink in an attempt to come to terms with the single question that has been on my mind ever since. I mean, "Why bother?" :confuse:

Best Regards,
Shipo

fintail

My dad had a boxy Horizon wannabe Rabbit when I was very young. He loved it...although I know that by the time it was 10 years old, it was junked.

Today I parked next to a Northstar Allante..pearl white as most seem to be.

toomanyfumes

Some Omni/Horizon's around here. Mostly the later ones, Late '80's or so. Of course there's a Chrysler engine plant nearby (former AMC Plant) so they sold a ton of them to the Chrysler employees.

andre1969

you don't see every day....

http://www.kcclassicauto.com/large/76plL.html

I wonder what the rear spoiler came off of? The guy that sold me my LeMans said he thinks it's off of an early 90's Firebird. Love the groovy 2-tone interior!

jlawrence01

I have seen a couple of Omni/Horizons here in Chicago that are in quite good shape. I give the owners credit as the build quality was really bad.

Have to admit that I was tempted to look at one that was for sale.

shipo

Geez, there are still OmniRizons in Chicago. Back in the late 1980s I inherited a Dodge Omni from my late Great Aunt (errr, thanks. Hey! Cousin Peggy, can I swap ya the car for that wonderful 100 year old China Cabinet with inlayed glass on three sides?). What was interesting was that I lived in Lisle, IL at the time, and the damned thing literally rusted away sitting in my driveway. To make matters worse, I came out to give it its weekly drive and found that the windshield had cracked itself, presumably from the heat of being parked in the sun. I finally gave it to my little brother who was going to school in Ann Arbor, MI at the time. Mercifully it was stolen by a couple of punks and destroyed. Got way more from the insurance that I would ever have gotten from selling it. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

shipo

Back when I was a Senior in High School, my Mom bought herself a black 1975 350 LeMans (looked almost identical to this 1976 except for single round headlights at each corner and triangular rear side windows). I loved picking up my dates in that car, for some reason the girls just loved it (I did too, but probably for different reasons).

Regarding this car: Hmmm, $12,500? What is that, twice what it cost brand new? Geez! And judging by the blue smoke coming from the left exhaust pipe, its "Fresh Ground Up Restoration" didn't even include a rebuilt motor.

Best Regards,
Shipo

jaserb

I saw a fully decked out "Smokey and the Bandit" Trans-Am yesterday. In black, T-tops, hood scoop, screaming gold fire-chicken on the hood. Looked to be in perfect condition, probably restored. Had a for sale sign in the window. Young Sally Field not included

-Jason

andre1969

my Mom bought a brand-new '75 LeMans, too. Base coupe, 350, big triangular side windows, except it was kind of a reddish color. I think it was called "Persimmon Bronze" or something like that. Not sure what color, exactly, the interior was, though. I remember it being reddish, but it was different from the vibrant "Firethorn" red that's in my '76.

For some reason, I hated that car when I was a kid. Although I always loved the '76-77 style with the quad headlights. I'd imagine it looked pretty sharp in black!

I guess the seller of that '76 is jacking the price because it's a GT model. I think all the GT was, though, is a graphics package with bucket seats, applied to the Sport Coupe. The Sport Coupe gave you the set of dummy lights on the trunklid, and came with louvered rear quarter windows standard, although buyers could spec the little opera window if they wanted. All the "good" stuff though, like a bigger engine and such, was still optional. I think I read somewhere that a handful of these GT's had a 455-4bbl and a 4-speed stick shift. Now that might be worth something. And I think the '73-75 Grand Am, and the 1977 1/2 Can Am are minor collectibles. But I dunno if any of them are worth $12.5K!

This GT is a bit basic, too. Crank windows, no a/c, manual seat adjust. It'd be really cool if it had T-tops!

wimsey1

A (slow) running VW bunnytruck. White with topper, driven glacially.
Parked, forever I imagine, a Ford Courier. I had forgotten they existed, I can't imagine when I last saw (noticed) one. Or a Chevy LUV (how 70's a name is that).

210delray

David E. Davis was reminiscing in the March issue of Automobile about all of the "Automobiles of the Year" the magazine had chosen, beginning with the Miata in '90 and ending with the Chrysler 300 in '05. They picked the LH cars in '93, a very good choice in my opinion. But now, he calls them "yawners."

But he was absolutely mum on the magazine picking the Dodge/Plymouth Neon the next year (early '95s that came out in spring 1994). In hindsight, I think that's the single worst choice they made. (Kind of like Motor Trend picking the Chevy Vega in '71!)

210delray

... a 1974 Chevy Caprice 2-door, mildly customized with a trick bronze-colored paint and fancy wheels. That huge fixed rear side window looks downright weird, though. The car was going the opposite direction as me on the road, so I didn't get much of a look.

Also, a bone stock red '65 Ford Falcon 2-door, in good condition, apparently unrestored.

andre1969

the first-gen LH cars might be a bit of a yawner, especially when it comes to performance, but you really have to look at them in the perspective of the time that they came out.

I remember when the Neon came out, and I have to admit, I actually liked 'em. They were the first economy car that could actually move out of its own way with some authority, even with the base engine, and they were roomy little suckers, too. Even to this day, I still have some degree of respect for the Neon, because it's one of the few small cars that I can really fit comfortably in, both front and rear. Doesn't mean I'm gonna rush out and buy one, though! :P

I think the single biggest problem with the Car of the Year award is that they don't look for reliability. But then, how can they? The award is limited to cars that are brand-new, and most cars aren't going to start showing problems until they're at least a few years old. They also tend to pick cars that they think are significant, forward-thinking, and unique from the rest of the masses. Unfortunately, those are the cars that usually get foisted on the public without enough testing for reliability.

andre1969

when GM went to those fixed rear side windows for the Caprice. I always thought the hardtop style looked sooo much better. IIRC, the Impala was still a hardtop in '74 and maybe even '75, although the roofline was modified just a bit from the '71-73. In '74-76 the Catalina/LeSabre/Delta 88 went to a new style of 2-door hardtop that had a big fixed window in the C-pillar, and a trimmer roll-down rear window right behind the door. It was a little more awkward than the clean '71-73 style, but I still thought it was pretty cool. By that time though, I think I liked the 4-door hardtops better, because they just seemed more open and airy inside.

210delray

I remember getting my first glimpse of those on the Pa Turnpike in the summer of '73 when I saw a Caprice on a car carrier. Didn't like them then, still don't like them today. The earlier 2-door hardtop style of the GM full sizers is much more attractive.

Have you noticed on those early Neons how badly their plastic headlight lenses get scratched and yellowed? I bet you can't see much at night with those. Chrysler should have just used glass sealed beams if they were going to be so cheap!

andre1969

that do that, though? My buddy's '95 Grand Marquis had gotten so bad in the headlight assembly that one of them actually cracked from deterioration! It still worked, but he decided to replace it anyway. And then, a few months later, traded it on a newer '04 Crown Vic! My Intrepid's headlights are starting to yellow a bit, and cloud up. Looks like it's all on the inside, too, so I dunno if there's any way to clean it. Maybe take 'em off, fill 'em up with some salt and ice cubes, a little water and swish it around? He, it works on coffee pots! :P

I'm guessing that the deterioration is also gradual enough that most driver's don't notice. For example, I haven't noticed any deterioration in my headlights...yet!

lemko

...bronze-colored 1973 Chevrolet Caprice convertible with a white top. My best friend's Dad had a brown 1973 Chevrolet Impala sedan when we were in high school. My grandfather had a dark green 1974 Impala sedan. I remember those big Caprice two-doors with the fixed rear glass. I also hated them then and now. There was an unusual 1974 Chevrolet Impala in red white and blue as a part of the "Spirit of America" series which included a Nova, Vega, and Malibu.