I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

andys120

I saw an Alfa 164S today, Alpine White over metallic dark grey. Oddly it had NH State Rep plates on it (they're usually old retired folks). It was in good driver shape, optional wing on trunk lid., nice car but not concours

davem2001

I could just never "get into" a 911 for whatever reasons - the styling does nothing for me, the engine sounds like a VW Beetle... But, I always loved the 944 of that era...that was always my "dream car" in high school and college

alfox

A 164 lives down the street from me. Owned by an older single woman, a teacher I think. It's in OK shape.

What is interesting is that periodically it dissappears for a couple days, I'm guessing for repairs, and a rental replaces it (not likely a loaner...) But it always returns eventually. Must be some level of irrational love there.

michaellno

I remember doing a report on the 924 when I was in 7th or 8th grade. Went to the Porsche dealer and got a brochure, then hacked it all up and put the pictures onto my presentation board. I distinctly remember the car having a .36 cD, and not having the faintest idea of what that meant.

"Sixteen Candles" came out in '84, and the 924 was released in, what, 1976? 1978? So, the 924 didn't last too many years before being replaced with the 944.

Trivia: The license plate on Jake's car reads "21850", which is director John Hughes's birthday (2/18/50).

IIRC, the 944 was awarded the title "Best Handling Car over $30K" by Car and Driver back in the mid or late 80's.

Trivia time: what was the car that won that same award for the under $30K price range?

Mr_Shiftright

Oh, stop, it does NOT sound like a VW Beetle, it's a howling banshee of a motor!What are you doin', listening to them idle at a stoplight? Geez, even a Corvette sounds pretty lame at low speeds.

Now a 944, that DOES sound like a can of gnats, agreed.

ALFA 164 -- fun car but white is a terrible color for it. Actually the 164 looks way cool black on black. (but in summer would not be way cool in fact). Great sounding motor in those cars.

andre1969

of .36 was probably a big deal back then. The only CD number I can remember from the 70's is for a '77-79 Mercury Cougar XR-7 coupe. .58. Don't ask me why that particular number stuck in my mind! When GM did that subtle reskin of the Grand Prix/Regal/Cutlass Supreme/Monte Carlo for '81, I think that took them down to the low .4 range. And IIRC the '82 Firebird was the first domestic of the 80's to break the .4 barrier. Ford took it from there though, with the '83 T-bird

Still, coefficient of drag isn't the end-all and be-all of car design, unless you're racing the NASCAR circuit or something. My Intrepid is a low .30, but doesn't really get very good fuel economy. The engine, weight, gearing, frontal area, etc all play more of a role at most driving speeds than drag coefficient does. Heck, if my car is so sleek, why do all the bugs keep committing suicide on my windhshield! :mad:

andre1969

that a 911 motor would sound closer to a Beetle motor than it would a Corvette motor, though! I think it's all in what you're used to listening to. When you're used to the rumble of a V-8, even a lame one, most smaller engines sound like lawn mowers, more or less. Sure, there are Honda lawn mowers and there are cheap used Montgomery Ward lawnmowers with rebuilt Briggs and Stratton engines, but they still sound like lawnmowers! :P

Mr_Shiftright

Well the reason a Corvette motor doesn't sound like a Porsche motor is because there are NO mechanical noises in a Corvette motor---it's all exhaust noise, and really no different from a pickup truck with flowmasters. A Porsche, or a Ferrari for that matter, has numerous mechanical noises from under the hood and no so much from the exhaust. You hear gears, whirring, whining. So if you aren't really standing on a Porsche gas pedal or a Ferrari loud pedal, you aren't really hearing the engine at all. Not much going on at 800 rpm.

You're just used to loud mufflers I think.

andre1969

how, exactly, do they get a Mopar V-8, a Chevy V-8, and a Pontiac V-8 to all get their unique sounds? Now I'm not well versed enough to recognize every engine sound I hear, but I was thinking about this when I bought my '76 LeMans, which has a Pontiac 350. My first though upon starting it up and hearing it run was "That sounds like my Catalina". It definitely has a different sound from the 305 in my pickup, which again has a different sound from the various Mopar smallblocks I've had. And an old Mopar Whale Hemi (a term they applied retroactively once they started calling the 426 the "Elephant") has a unique sound all its own.

So it it all just in the exhaust, then?

Mr_Shiftright

Yep, it is all exhaust and firing impulses and maybe some intake noise--which is the same as exhaust noise but in the opposite direction. That is all you are hearing, definitely.

American V-8 engines themselves make very little noise. They are thick-walled, usually with hydraulic lifters and UHC (underhead cams). If say you could string like 4 mufflers on each bank of an American V-8, to REALLY quite it down, it would sound like a Lincoln Town Car (which is after all also a V-8). But a Porsche or Ferrari has TWO distinct producers of sound---the exhaust, and the engine itself, which would still make a hell of a racket with ten mufflers attached to it.

Oh, one way to get a decent sound out of an American V-8 would be a supercharger, which is by its nature making mechanical noises.

Anyway, when you say "That Corvette, or that Mustang sounds great", what you mean is that the exhaust sounds great, not the engine. You aren't even hearing the engine most likely, and certainly not from curbside as the car goes past.

This is one complaint about the new Z06 BTW. It sounds wimpy for a supercar.

jrosasmc

Don't forget BMW six-cylinder engines too. I realize that they sound really smooth at idle, but I've opened a few of them up at high rpm and they are fantastic-sounding motors. Great power too, as a lot of them will spin to redline very easily (except for the '80s 2.7 "eta" motor, I hated that one). Just hearing those valves clatter make me smile.

On the other hand, Saab and Volvo four-cylinders are very durable, but they struggle at higher rpms...normally-aspirated ones that is. The Saab turbos are real noisy from my experience.

stickguy

I think it was a Prelude under 30K. I know it one one of the magazines handling tests.

davem2001

I think it was a Camaro Z28

davem2001

I know, I know, I'm not a true Porsche-phile.... I just never really liked the 911, I always liked the looks of the 944 or 928 much better.

Another car I always loved from that era was the Ferrari 308 (Magnum P.I.'s car!)

andre1969

Magnum PI's car, too! Is it true what I've heard that it wasn't a real Ferrari, but just a kit car?

michaellno

The test I remember had the Prelude as the best handling car under $30K.

However, I believe that C&D did the "Best Handling Car" test for more than one year, so it's possible that the Z28 might also have won in a different year ... but I honestly don't remember.

seminole_kev

not sure about Magnum PI, but wasn't Miami Vice's Ferrari a fake for the first few seasons or so?

andre1969

IIRC, that "ferrari" on the first couple seasons of Miami Vice was a Corvette with some kind of aftermarket kit bolted on. IIRC there was also a movie called "Glass House" or something like that, that had the kid that could pass off as Helen Hunt Jr in it, where they had this exotic Ferrari-looking car. It got wrecked up real good in the movie. In the director's commentary, they said it was just a Fiero with a body kit on it!

seminole_kev

haha! I know exactly what you mean about "Helen Hunt Jr.". Dead ringer for sure!

(I know that's off topic, just that I always thought the exact same thing ;-)

davem2001

michaell- I'm pretty sure the Z28 won one year - they ran that test almost every year I think, so there were lots of different winners I guess

seminole and andre - the "Daytona" on Miami Vice was a fake "kit car"....the 308GTS on Magnum was real.

andre1969

is the one that GM copied the roofline of for the Monza/Sunbird/et al hatchbacks back in the 70's? I remember reading that as a kid in one of my automotive history books, that the roofline was reminiscent of certain Ferraris, but I just couldn't picture it at the time. Until one day I saw a car that looked like it had a Monza roofline out on the street one day, but didn't recognize it. Whaddya know, it was a Ferrari!

davem2001

Not sure, but my guess would be the Daytona coupe

davem2001

This stroll down memory lane has gotten me thinking about "nostalgia" cars from the 80's

Here are my personal favorites - cars I lusted after as a high school and college student- (early to mid 80s timeframe)
Porsche 944
Ferrari 308GTS
Audi 5000 turbo
Honda Prelude
VW Rabbit GTI

I must admit, I thought the original Fiero was cool when it first came out in 1984!

Mr_Shiftright

That was the Fiero's problem. It looked like a very cool sports car, drove like a 3 ton bread truck and accelerated like an automatic Pinto.

GM finally got the car right with a V-6 and 5 speed, of course too late to turn the buying public around about it.

Ferrari 308s are pretty cheap right now if you want one. Problem is they aren't very fast. What you want is a 328, looks very similar but a better car in every way.

davem2001

Yeah, that was a typical GM move, they spent millions re-engineering the suspension, giving it a V6 and 5-speed, etc....essentially "fixing" it for the 1988 model year...but by then it's reputation was shot and they dropped it anyway.....

Mr_Shiftright

There are a small group of people who think old Fieros are worth some money---the people who own old Fieros.

The car is a mother to work on, I do know that much.

I saw an 80s Audi turbo quattro coupe (rare but worth some bucks--maybe the only old Audi EVER to be worth anything, and even then, not more than $7K and more like $4K).

Nice old Volvo P1800, and a BEAUTIFUL red Datsun 240Z, just perfect tip to tail.

wimsey1

Early Corvair pickup.
Chevy had quite line of vehicles on that platform.
That was one American engine that made a lot of mechanical noise.

andre1969

but I think you also have to consider the time that the Fiero was designed. It came out in 1984, which means it was most likely in development around the '81-82 timeframe, when everybody was deathly afraid of scarce, $3.00 per gallon gas. In many ways, the Fiero was supposed to just be a cheap commuter car that happened to look cool and sporty. Kind of in incarnation of the original Mustang, which was mainly just a school teacher/secretary car in its early years.

I'm sure if it weren't for the fuel crisis, the car would have been designed from the get-go, with a better engine/tranny in mind. It really was a shame though, that they finally got the car more or less right, and then canned it!

wimsey1

LOL on FIero "value".

davem2001

Yeah, I remember that, too... supposedly GM management wasn't too keen on having any other 2 seat "sports cars" beyond the Corvette.....so Pontiac sort of slid the Fiero under the corporate radar as a "commuter car"....It was stuck with the old Iron Duke 4 cyl and 4 speed transaxle....they finally got it right for the 1988 model year but by then it was too late..... But I do remember, when it first came out, it was "the" car to have, sort of like a Mustang convertible or a 300C right now. You could only get it in red, white, or black (I think) that first year....looking back in 20-20 hindsight, I'm sure glad I didn't waste money on one, it probably would have been a lemon....!

andre1969

where I wanted a Fiero really bad. Fortunately it was when I was in 8th and 9th grade, and too young to act on it! I do remember in 9th grade, there was this really good looking woman who passed by my bus stop every morning in a red Fiero. She'd always wave to me. I used to fantasize that she was flirting with me, and would one day stop and pick me up, and it would be like a gender-reversal of Smokey and the Bandit!

Well, to my amazement, one day as she slowed to make the turn where my bus stop was, after waving, instead of making the turn she slowed down, kept going straight, and pulled onto the shoulder! You can imagine what my 14 year old mind was probably thinking! Well, it turns out that she was one of the secretaries at my high school, and she recognized me which is why she waved. I guess I didn't recognize her because she looked cuter, and somehow HOTTER in that little red Fiero! And the reason she stopped was because her car broke down right at that spot!

She rode in with me on the school bus. She was like in her lower 20's, and I'm sure it wouldn't have worked out between us. But at least she sat next to me on the bus! :shades:

PF_Flyer

I'm glad we made it through that story...LOL

Weekend coming up, nice weather expected. ought to be prime time for obscure car sightings!

lemko

...did you ever see a movie called "Joy Ride" where these two guys pull a prank on a psycho trucker who then relentlessly pursues them? They are seen riding around in a 1971 Chrysler Newport Custom 2-door hardtop.

lemko

I saw a blue BMW 318 ti parked in the lot at work today. It's sort of a hatchback. Maybe these are more plentiful elsewhere.

andre1969

yup, that one was another movie that had "Helen Hunt Junior" in it! That movie wasn't too bad, except for some scenes where the vehicles started defying physics. There was one part where an 18 wheeler T-boned an ice truck, and broke it in half! I didn't know they were that fragile! And then the truck pins the Newport up against a tree and starts squeezing, shattering the windshield and rear window. Yet in a later scene, they're getting a new windshield put in...nevermind the fact that the A-pillars and roof were most likely distorted, which made the first one shatter. Oh well, it's only Hollywood! It had its moments, though.

Sneakers, didja think that was going to be one of my X-rated stories, or something? :P

davem2001

Yeah, me too...If I could have afforded one back then, I would have bought it in a heartbeat...red with the tan interior......like I said, in 20-20 hindsight, good thing I didn't have the money....!

Mr_Shiftright

damned! I just saw a car and I haven't a CLUE what it is....was....I couldn't turn around to follow it.

Looked 60s-ish, definitely foreign. Had a basic 911 Porsche shape, but with a rectangular grille and some script written horizontally across the top of the grille---on the front cowl, not on the grille itself.

The rear end looked squarish...it was a fastback coupe....smoking like the devil---wonder if it was a two-stroke.

andys120

is the one that GM copied the roofline of for the Monza/Sunbird/et al hatchbacks back in the 70's?

This one=>

Ferrari 365 GTC/4 ca. '71-72 IIRC

Mr_Shiftright

Probably didn't really copy that car exactly, as the Monza came out in '74, meaning it was in development 4-5 years before. But there were at the time a number of European cars with that type of roofline, earlier than this Ferrari. Maybe Ferrari copied it, in the sense that its hired stylists might have done this style before on earlier cars.

jrosasmc

I saw a late '70s BMW 530i moving under its own power this afternoon. How it was still running is beyond me, as I know those had awful driveability due to their emissions-strangled motors. (And those god-awful thermal reactors)

Also saw an '89 or '90 Audi 100 (couldn't place the year) driving around...I thought all of them had gotten sent to the junkyard long ago. The highlight of the day, though, was me trying to go against a '95 Porsche 993 Carrera 4 on the interstate. (Yes, I got spanked in my lowly Volvo)

shill

I'm clearly not an auto journalist, nor have I driven many cars. Couldn't we just call the Fiero a sports car that hits its limit at the speed limit? I find the Fiero to be a fun car to drive up to the speed limit - I wish there were more cars geared like that. The Golf IV GTI can break the law on the freeway in 2nd gear, and while it's fun to accelerate fast it feels like you only shift for gas mileage and noise reduction. If nothing more, the Fiero represents how far everything from door locks and power windows to upholstery has come in the last 20 years. It may not be a great sports car, but it's a nice history lesson.

merckx

I saw a 1966 one of these at a car show last weekend. I remember as a boy reading about this engine in C&D-they even put one in an E-Type Jag. How was this car really? Boy,you definitely could climb in the engine bay for work-the engine is swimming in space. Just sitting there,it looked pretty desirable...

Mr_Shiftright

Well the car was just a Tempest so probably pretty okay if a bit boring but the engine was problematic. Liked to eat valves as I recall --or camshafts, or something--there was a problem in the cylinder head that was very very bad. Wish they had developed that engine and put it in a compact, luxurious trimmed Pontiac 4-door. Voila! A BMW 3-Series, American style!

andre1969

the Pontiac OHC 6 could do 0-60 in around 9.5 seconds, which doesn't sound too impressive today. But when you figure that your typical inline 6 of the time would get you around 14-16 seconds in a car like this, while your basic V-8 was around 10-12. It was probably about as quick off the line as the Pontiac 326 V-8, but I'd imagine revved a bit higher for better passing power? IIRC it was just a Chevy 230 inline 6 that was converted to OHC. Didn't work too reliably in the the 90's when they converted the Chevy 3.4 to DOHC, and it didn't work any better back in the 60's!

The biggest problem I heard was that it went through timing belts like every 20-30,000 miles. And I don't know if it was an interference engine or not. :surprise: Considering that most 6-cyl engines back then had a long stroke, and really weren't high revvers, they probably would've been better off just doing the OHC treatment to a small V-8.

PF_Flyer

I found myself behind a Fiero that was being used to deliver pizzas yesterday. It was looking pretty ratty with both exhausts missing and the body work, while looking original without any repairs, was definitly showing it's age. Was following it for about 2 miles up and down some hills and apparently the engine had no guts left at all as even a moderate hill would require a downshift and higher revs to climb. :sick:

kyfdx

Plenty of 318ti around here.. They were produced from '95-'99 for US sale.. In fact, saw a '97 in the local paper today for $5500. Which sounds really cheap, except for the description.. "highway miles". 8 year old car with "highway miles".. I'm guessing about 160K or more..

There is a green one that lives around the corner from me..

Mr_Shiftright

The Fiero is just another victim of "cheap car syndrome" wherein a certain type of car is interesting enough for people to want it but cheap enough that it falls into the hands of people who cannot care for it for financial reasons; e.g., Fiero, Porsche 914, MGB, Alfa Spider, etc. etc.

So the attrition rate is pretty bloody. After a while, so many are gone that the car becomes rarer and the price starts to creep up (Porsche 914 no going through this, Shifty's 928 Porsche not yet darn it).

However, sometimes even the rarity doesn't boost the price and the car just disappears.

This is why sometimes cars that were quite plentiful and common disappear completely while cars that were not common are still seen often.

stickguy

Haven't seen one of these in ages: an early Mercury Capri, chrome bumper, must be about a '71. Yellow, actually looked to be in nice shape.

It was parked at a local gas station that has a number of oddballs laying around, including a bare Citreon (traction avant? Not a 2CV, much older), and a SAAB 92 IIRC, but a '60's vintage I'm pretty sure.

Mr_Shiftright

Probably a Saab 96. Saab 92 is very rare anywhere in the world and worth a boatload back in Sweden....made around 1952 or so.

An early Capri with the V-6 engine would be fun.

fintail

No ebay junk today, as I have been away. I was on a longish trip, and I saw tons of oddballs.

From memory, I saw a couple of 57 Fords at different times on I5 (one a retractable), a couple of Edsels at different times, a big c.48 Pontiac torpedo body sedan, a Hillman Minx in pristine condition, a few Ford Falcons and Fairlanes, a sharp c.71 Firebird, and I got passed by what appeared to be an AMG 500SEC going about 100mph on I5 south of Seattle.

And in estate car sightings....the old lady who lives across the street from my mom passed away, and now her relatively nice c.82(?) Subaru semi-hardtop coupe is just sitting parked on the street. And the 80-something woman who lives across from my grandma traded her pristine first gen. Cressida for a Corolla. I wonder what became of it.