I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

Mr_Shiftright

Oh, a 1600 Cabriolet? That's quite rare---a good find. You win the spotter's award for today I think.

jaserb

The movie was Crazy People, starring Dudley Moore. The basic premise is an ad guy who goes crazy and starts pitching ad concepts based on the brutal truth. He gets put in the nut house, his ads become an incredible success, and he works with the other inmates to create more of them. One other ad I remember was for Porsche, but I'm not sure it's quite PG-13 enough for this forum... Something about Porsches being too small to perform certain activities inside, but likely to improve the chances for same once the driver exits...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099316/

-Jason

fintail

I think that movie ended with him buying each of the inmates their own car...some of them were oddball vehicles.

explorerx4

while channel surfing, i saw part of some show, maybe the 'robb report'?
rob is right! they were trying to convince you that a frame off restored hemi cuda convertible was worth 5 million! the other car i remember was a 1938 maybach(1 of 2 still around). that was pretty much artwork. 3 million kind of sticks in my mind.
i have a hard tme believing a car is worth 5 million. well maybe the 'bugazzi'.

ghulet

.....it was some segment on the MSNBC financial channel, IIRC, discussing whether collector cars are good investments or not. The cars I remember seeing were the Maybach and Hemi 'Cuda convertible you mentioned, and also a '68 Camaro Z28 convertible (don't know how many were made, as Chevy kept notoriously vague production records at the time) supposedly built for a GM exec (loaded, of course) 'valued at' over $1 million.

Couple of obvious problems with this show: 'collector cars' that 99.9% of the population can't afford aren't exactly representative of what is or isn't a 'good investment'. They're $1M+ for a reason or two, at least as far as those collectors are concerned, eh? Second, no matter how 'rare' a Cuda or Camaro you can find, they're still, when it comes down to it, mass produced American cars; a certain engine, paint code, interior type, factory power windows and an over-restoration don't add up to twenty times normal value, IMO.

explorerx4

i saw the camaro too, but couldn't remember the 'value'. i think i was too shocked.
to me people were 'shills'.

mmcporter

I saw a 1970's Triumph TR6 today--a beautiful maroon color with black interior--it was great to see one driving on the road.

boomchek

Saw an antique Fiat 600 a day ago. It looked like in mint condition, very tiny car with the rear mounted engine.

Must have been from the mid to late 60's if I am correct.

Mr_Shiftright

I can answer the question "which collectible car is a good investment"

ANSWER: Compared to a REAL investment, the answer is NONE. Compared to a Delorean, yes, a Hemi Cuda is a better investment. **

Those prices are ridiculous, you are right and the people ARE shills.

I have seen many a collectible car sell for $100,000 under the TV lights and with the wine flowing, bringing a cool $60,000 four months later in the "real world".

CAVEAT: When economy goes sour or something scary happens, first thing to get dumped on the market is people's "toys". Case in point--in the 1980s, "consortiums" of automotive "investors" were buying certain Ferraris for 3.5 million that ended up selling ten years later for $600,000.

imidazol97

One was an economy car as far as the pieces put together for the body around a hefty engine and drivetrain; the other was a Cadillac quality car at a high price. Two different ends of the spectrum.

Mr_Shiftright

Well now you best be careful about comparing something to Cadillac quality in the early 1980s....Actually to be fair to Cadillac I think an 80s Cadillac was screwed together better than a Volvo, but the Volvo had a better drivetrain and chassis at that time. Volvo plastics, leather and miscellaneous hardware was no better than a Tercel IMO, and a Tercel had a better paint job, too.

What made Volvo's reputation was a) safety and b) ability to withstand abusive owners. Other than that....NADA for that car (my two cents). :mad:

jrosasmc

You really think '80s Tercels had better paint jobs than Volvos?

What Volvo did well back in that decade was rust resistance. Look at, say, a mid-'80s Volvo and a Toyota pickup truck (another of my examples). The Volvo would still look good ten years later whereas the Toyota truck would be just a rolling, rusted-out carcass (never really understood why those things rusted fast).

imidazol97

I agree with your point. At the time the Cadillacs still had the solid top line quality image. The Volvos were relatively new and were marketing to upscale purchasers who were willing to pay Cadillac prices for smaller vehicles.

Coworkers who bought Volvos had outrageous repair bills, long shop times, dealers adding on huge maintenance item lists. They seemed to happily accept the overcharge. The attitude was "after all, it's a Volvo."

But brakes, paint, interiors, transmissions went bad relatively quickly -- the folks tended to not maintain them well after they got tired of the dealer bilking them for $$$.

andre1969

in terms of "investments"...

My Mom used to take out savings bonds starting when I was born in 1970 to put something away for me and continued to have them taken out through the 70's, and part of the 80's. Then she put them away and forgot about them, and, well, 30 years can go by faster than you might think! So now, I'm getting maybe 1 or 2 that hit final maturity each month, so I go to the bank and deposit them.

Right now, the next one to be cashed in was taken out in September 1975. It had a $25.00 face value, and Mom paid $18.75 for it. At final maturity, it'll be worth $133.15. Or, 7.10 times what Mom paid for it 30 years ago! And that's just with a savings bond, which is pretty conservative, and really doesn't pay much interest! I wonder how many cars purchased new 30 years ago would be worth 7.10 times their original purchase price today?

I'm sure there's a select few, and even fewer that are worth even more than that. But then you have to wonder about taxes, registration, insurance, and upkeep over all those years. But then, just think if, instead of savings bonds, my Mom had put that money into mutual funds? Chances are then I might be typing this from my laptop, laying out on the beach in Maui or something!

andre1969

IMO first truly went upscale whenever the 740/760 series came out, which was what? 1982-83? The older GL/240 were really just old-school compact cars (even if they don't actually date back to the 60's, they sure do look it!) with a high price tag. My neighbors had a 1989 740 wagon that they bought used back in 1992. By 1998 they were pretty much fed up with it. The body and paint still looked great, and the interior held up well considering they had dogs, but it was getting to the point that it was a pain to work on. No local shop around here would touch it, so every time it broke down they'd have to take it back to the Volvo dealer, which I think was in Virginia! And each trip ended up running around $1000 or more, so they got fed up with it. It was replaced with a Subaru Legacy Outback wagon, which has held up great mechanically, but is not nearly as durable. The interior started falling apart after just a few years. Minor stuff, like fabric on the door panels coming unglued, plastic panels popping loose and rattling, and so forth. Still looks okay on the outside, though.

jrosasmc

Yes, you're right- the 760 first came out as a 1983 model. The 740 did not arrive here until 1985. The older DL/GL series used that nomenclature until the 240 designation was revived for 1986. And that series dated back to the 140 series of 1968- Shifty, I'm sure, has a few words to say about that one.

lemmer

I bet your mom didn't have to pay maintenance and insurance on that savings bond.

But, it probably wasn't as fun to look at as a car.

lemko

...I have some $25 savings bonds that go back to 1966! I wonder what they're now worth? There is a beautiful white 1968 Cadillac Fleetwood for sale near my workplace, but no way is it going to fit in my garage. My 1989 Brougham just fits.

andre1969

and those savings bonds never left her stranded along the road, either! BTW, I plugged that $18.75 into an inflation calculator, and it would come out to around $70.23 today. So factoring in for inflation, that oldest bond hasn't even doubled in "real" dollars.

Guess it could've been worse, though! Mom could've held onto the '75 LeMans she bought that year for around $5,000, and given it to me! I couldn't imagine that car being worth 7.10 times what she paid for it! Heck, that'd be $35,500! And considering I bought a '76 LeMans back in April of this year for $3,000 (and mine was a more upscale Grand LeMans with a nicer interior, power windows, seat, nicer dash/interior, and Rally II wheels, all stuff Mom's didn't have), it shows what a bad "investment" cars, for the most part, really are!

Now I guess some people who bought these old cars used might have seen a decent return. For example, when I was in college, one of the managers there had bought a '57 DeSoto Fireflite convertible for his first car, back in the 60's. He then moved onto a '57 Chevy Bel Air convertible. He paid around $500 for each car back then. When you figure what a '57 Bel Air convertible, or even a '57 DeSoto convertible would be worth these days, I'm sure that would be a pretty nice return on $500 spent back in the mid-60's. But compared to the $3000 or so that Bel Air originally stickered for, or the $4,000 or more the DeSoto probably left the showroom floor at in 1957, not such a good deal!

andre1969

Not sure about those real old savings bonds, but most bonds stop paying interest after 30 years. I think there used to be a 40 year bond. Anyway, you might want to find out when they stop (or stopped) earning interest. If they've already hit final maturity, cash them in and invest them in something else.

Here's a savings bond calculator that's pretty handy... http://wwws.publicdebt.treas.gov/BC/SBCPrice

lemko

...where Greg bought a 1956 Chevrolet Bel Air convertible for $100? Geeze, even if he left it as a pile of junk, he'd of got a heck of a return on his initial investment today.

andre1969

"I could fix it up and get FIVE times that for it!" C'mon, Greg, you're thinking too short term here! It's amazing how cheap some of those cars were back in the early 70's, though. My uncle had a '67 GTO hardtop that he paid $500 for. Now I don't know how beat-up it was, but it was in good enough shape that it would outrun the cops (he knew this from experience! :surprise: ) and this was like the early 70's, so the car was only around 5-6 years old at the time! When I was around 3 (1973) my Dad bought a '64 GTO 2-door post, 389/4-speed for around $300-400. He also bought a '62 Vette around the time I was born (1970) for around $1000.

Oh yeah, Lemko, have you ever thought about having your garage remodeled? I'm guessing it's set up where your garage is around in back of the house, off of an alley? Perhaps you could get the back wall knocked out and have a couple feet added on, so you could get some of the bigger cars that you love so much inside!

One of my buddys has a townhouse that, no lie, the garage is so small he can barely get a PASSAT inside! Part of that is because he has shelves at the back wall, but still, that would only get you a couple more feet. Well, back in early 2004 he bought a '78 Mark V. All 231 inches or so of it. Needless to say, it doesn't go in his garage!

andre1969

but back in the early 80's, what was inflation running? I'd imagine that it was close to 9-10%. That was also probably still in the time when people were snatching up musclecars and such for a song, and then saw their prices skyrocket in the late 80's, and tend to still use that as an example of an "investment"

jaserb

A friend of mine in college bought an absolutely pristine Volvo 240 from a relative. It was an '84 or so, with really low miles. This would have been in 1999 or so. He was absolutely convinced the thing would last forever. I wasn't so sure. I remember closing the front door one time and having the map pocket grenade on my leg. Very cheap plastic. After the water pump and a couple of other mechanical things started crapping out he dumped it and got a used camry or something.

-Jason

jlawrence01

***but back in the early 80's, what was inflation running? I'd imagine that it was close to 9-10%

Car loans were going for 17-18% if you had GOOD credit and mortgages for 14-15%.

Wanna guess why Carter lost his reelection bid?

Some counties in Michigan had unemployment rates in the 15-20% rate.

lemko

I do have a fairly long driveway where I could extend the garage a few feet. Then, I could park two 1989 Broughams end to end or 1 3/4 1968 Fleetwoods.

fintail

You NEVER see nice 116s anymore, and look at those colors - kinda pimpy for a MB. A little steep, probably yeah, but it has to be one of the best left, big park bench bumpers and all

Excellent looking late 108, but what's this "rust on the roof"?

Mr_Shiftright

EXACTLY right--when people try to calculate old cars as investments they never factor in insurance, storage and the use of the money they invested in the car.

Sure a couple of people got lucky with old cars, but then, sometimes now and then someone falls out of their office window, ten stories up, and lands in the back of a pickup truck carrying mattresses....but you wouldn't bet on that happening too often.

fintail

I saw a C43 today! First I've seen since I got mine. It was black and kinda pimped out - bigger wheels, lowered, black tinted windows, updated mirrors with blinkers in them (I've been thinking about those). I'm not so hot on the other mods though. It was debadged, but it had real C43 bodykit and I could hear it, V8 for sure.

I also spotted an Audi S8

themoon77

I saw a black Z8 at the Biltmore House in Asheville, NC on Sunday the 18th. Beautiful car; first one I had ever seen in person. It sounded really good when the driver goosed it a little!

Steve Edge

lemmer

early 70s Buick Riviera at the Arby's drive through early this morning

au94

later model Chevette, one with the square headlights, moving under its own power. Can't remember when I saw that. My high school used its clone, the Pontiac T1000 as our drivers ed cars.

Also saw a 79 Cougar in the typical for the era creamy tan with the tan landau roof. Actually did not look like ti was in too bad of shape.

lemko

Funny, I just saw a brown Chevette Scooter, (the budget version) on my way to work this morning.

jrosasmc

The Scooter didn't even come with a back seat beacuse it was so stripped-down. I wonder how many customers fell for that.

explorerx4

of seeing a silver 350z with a faux black vinyl roof and a black carrera GT within 5 minutes of each other? :confuse: i never thought i would ever see the porsche in person. i hope i never see the 350z again.

stickguy

early 1st generation Q45. Guess it says everything you need to know about the Lexus vs. Infiniti battle when the Q qualifies as an obscure sighting.

Mr_Shiftright

I always wanted one of those....so that I could empty a full clip from my pump shotgun into it :P

lemmer

I saw an early Q45 yesterday. I see old LS400s all the time.

But, the battle rages on. I see almost as many Infinitis as Lexi these days, but still almost never a new style Q.

andre1969

that first-gen Q, the one with the grille-less face. They just became too generic and old-fogey looking when they slapped the grille on them. And when they got redesigned, they just seemed too weird for my tastes.

Mr_Shiftright

Those early Qs are real sleepers. They are fast, comfortable and actually fun to drive....but alas, no fun to look at. A GREAT buy on a used car BTW.

stickguy

was watching reruns of the Amazing race the other day, and the contestants ended up in Hungary. Anyway, the contest was to drive from Budapest airport to a small town about 60 miles away to do a stunt.

The kicker is that each team had to drive themselves in a Trabant! First they had to gas it up (filler under the hood, a nice safe place), then figure out how to drive it without help, which was a treat to see.

Funniest thing is they had a condition to the race. If the car broke down through no fault of the contestant, they had a flatbed with spares available to drop off another one! 2 or 3 teams needed a replacement.

stickguy

seems like a lot of the early Qs end up on the BHPH lots in Phila, or at the local auto auction (for retail buyers).

Mr_Shiftright

there's 275HP under the hood!

TRABANT:

I always wanted to stage a race in California with Fiats only, and call it:

"The 24 minutes of Lemans"

lemko

Like stickguy says, they often end up on Philly BHPH lots and are sold to people who can't/won't care for them properly. Most old Q's around here look pretty shabby whereas old LS400s are pristine. The early Q is going to be even more obscure as the years roll on. The current Q is even rarer. Didn't they sell like only 650 or so last year?

Mr_Shiftright

Old LS400s have bad leather, though, and steering rack problems. But you're right, a Q45 in the hands of a no-maintenance owner is a scary thought.

lemko

I heard the electroluminescent instrument panel was a weakness as well as power steering pumps.

michaellno

Yep, I saw that episode. Was funny to see them struggle with the column mounted manual transmission.

My wife asked what they had under the hood ... told her a 2 stroke engine (is that right?)

Also, don't they have the engines in the rear?

stickguy

2 strokes. The engine is up front though (they showed a couple looking at one that the guy decided had seized.

thegraduate

I saw a Silver Porsche GT3 today! It was the newest iteration (996)

boomchek

2 stroke 2 cylinder iirc. :sick: