I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

chuck1959

My friend owns a Stag (a 1972 I think) Nice car.

andre1969

'75 Electra...actually, if it were closer, I wouldn't mind getting something like that. I really like the color. I'd prefer the 4-door hardtop though.

'80 New Yorker. Looks really nice, but would be a dog with that 120 hp 318. I'm surprised that it had a sticker of $12K+ since it's just a NYer and not a 5th Avenue. I think my '79 stickered for around $12-13K. But, with the way inflation was back then, I guess it's possible they shot up that fast. I like that Nightwatch Blue color

'76 LeMans. In spite of that color and the tiny 260 V-8, I still like it a lot. I like that grille better than the grille of my LeMans, which has a '77 Grand LeMans grille in it. Still, it'd be cheaper to just buy the grille inserts that I like, rather than a whole 'nother car! And besides, mine doesn't have the correct inserts, anyway!

260 V-8...I think that might have been Oldsmobile's response to smaller, more efficient engines that were starting to make the scene in the mid-70's, like the Chevy 305 and Buick 231, both of which came out in '75, IIRC. The 231 dates back much further, but Buick sold the tooling to Jeep in the late 60's, then bought it back, and it first showed up in GM cars in '75. The 260 was based on the 350 block. I think it had the same stroke as a 350 but a smaller bore. HP usually jumped back and forth from 100-110 over the years, so it probably wasn't much of a step up over a 231, which had 105 in '75, and never got above 115 hp unless you went fuel injected or turbocharged. Other GM divisions would soon follow suit with extra-small V-8's, such as the Chevy 267, which I think came out for '78, and the Pontiac 265.

Personally I never understood the need for these extra small V-8's, since they didn't give you much, if any more hp than the 6/V-6 engines, but still added weight. I guess they would've still been much smoother than a V-6 though, and there were probably plenty of people back then that simply flat-out refused to give up their V-8's, no matter how weak they got.

I also thought it was odd that Olds waited until 1980 to come out with the 307 to slot between the 260 and 350. Too bad they didn't come out with it a few years earlier, then maybe a few less otherwise fine GM cars wouldn't have been saddled with the Pontiac 301!

lemko

Did Carlisle take place this weekend? I couldn't go as I was working. I thought I saw something on TV about it earlier this week. If so, were you or grbeck there?

andre1969

yeah, it was this past weekend. BTW, the Hershey show is this upcoming weekend...would you be interested in meeting us there?

I took a few pics at Carlisle, but there just didn't seem to be a whole lot that caught my eye this time around. Still, there was this '77 Electra with a 403 that the seller only wanted $1950 or so for. If I hadn't bought that LeMans back in April, I'm sure I would've snatched this sucker up! There was also a '69 Sedan DeVille that was in pretty good shape. I think the seller was asking $5,000. If you could get him down to $3500 or so, it seemed like it would've been a pretty good deal. Also, there was a nice '75 Cutlass Salon coupe with bucket seats and a floor shifter that Grbeck really liked. I think the seller was asking $6500 for that. I'll post the pics as soon as I get a chance.

lemmer

I saw a bright yellow Diablo out for a Sunday drive in my neighborhood yesterday. It sure is a long car.

lemko

Darn! I gotta work again this weekend! I'll see if I can weasel out of it. What would be better, Saturday or Sunday?

I had a 1979 Buick Park Avenue with the 403 V-8. It is an excellent engine!

andre1969

We're going to be up there on Saturday. If Hershey is anything like Carlisle, I'm guessing Sunday would be pretty dead there.

There were actually two '77 Electras at Carlisle. The one that I really liked, with the 403, was just a base model. It had cloth seats and vinyl door panels. It was a creme color with creme interior. We saw another '77 later for sale that had "$1995" on it, but it was locked up and I don't know what engine it had. It was a dark green Limited and was considerably rougher than the creme one.

michaellno

But there was an interesting twist to one of the shows my wife and I watch regularly. It's called "Flip this House" and it's on A&E. It's a show about a property company in Charleston, SC that buys, renovates and sells homes.

Anyway, the episode yesterday was a little different in that they bought a house that was still occupied. They decided to move the owners out, renovate, then allow the occupants to move back in and lease the house for a year.

So, on top of the $30-40K they invested in the house, they also took this guy's '61-ish El Camino and restore it. Car ran fine, just needed a lot of cosmetic work. It ended up white with a red roof ... very nice looking.

On sort of a related note, I confessed to my wife this weekend that I've always wanted a mid 60's convertible to have as a weekend toy. Andre and Lemko, as the experts (as I see it) on this board in this field, do you have any suggestions as to how I go about fulfilling this? It may be a few years down the road before I'm able to do anything about it, but any thoughts or advice you could provide would be appreciated.

I'm not looking for something to restore myself - I don't have the tools, the experience or the inclination for something like that - but rather would like to find something in the $8-10K range, if possible, for a nice driver. Make and model are open (I don't have a preference of GM, Ford or Mopar), nor am I looking for a trailer queen.

If anyone wants to jump in with their thoughts on this, I'm all ears (or eyes, in this case, I suppose).

lemko

Are you looking for a full-size, midsize, or pony car? Well, one mid-60s convertible that will probably still be affordable is the 1965 Pontiac Tempest or LeMans convertible. If fuel economy is a concern, the Tempest came with an inline six-cylinder. It looks similar to the GTO convertible and would be a fine daily driver.

The El Camino on that show had to be a 1959 or 1960 model as there were no 1961-63 El Caminos. The El Camino returned in 1964 on the Chevelle platform.

michaellno

I guess that El Camino was a '59 or a '60, then. A friend of my dad's had a '66 or '67 El Camino and I remember it being way more boxy than the one on the show yesterday.

I haven't really given much thought as to what I want, exactly. I guess, if anything, I'd like to have something out of the mainstream (meaning, no Mustangs, Camaros, or GTOs). I suppose a limiting factor would be my garage, which, based on what I have in it besides my vehicles, is not overly long. I can't imagine Andre's Bonneville fitting into it, for example!

I guess supply and demand come into play, as well. I suspect that there aren't that many GM, Ford or Mopar intermediate convertibless that have survived for 40 or so years if they don't have a large following.

Perhaps some pictures could help me formulate an opinion....

andre1969

with a non-musclecar variant of a GM intermediate of the 60's. Such as a non-SS Chevelle, or a Tempest, Cutlass, or Special. One problem with these though, is that the musclecar versions seem to be driving up the prices of the more mundane ones as well, I guess because people start thinking about cloning and such.

A '67-69 Dart or Barracuda would make a cool choice too, although they were pretty scarce as convertibles when new. Still, they're a good balance of size, interior room, and economy. The intermediate Mopars, like a Satellite or Coronet convertible, are running into the same problem as GM's midsize convertibles, where the musclecar variants are going out of control, price-wise, and the regular ones seem to be getting caught in that updraft.

I really don't know much about the Ford intermediate convertibles of the time, like the Fairlane/Torino and Comet/Montego. They seem pretty scarce, but at the same time I don't think they're too expensive.

Full-sized convertibles probably give you the most bang for your buck, but if one won't fit in your garage, that's not going to do you much good. FWIW, my '67 Catalina is around 215" long. I really don't consider it to be all that big, and when you compare it to your typical full-sized truck of today, it really isn't! :P Still, it could be pretty cumbersome in tight quarters. When I had my condo, the garage space was only about 10x20 feet. I had to park it close to one side so I could open the driver's door, and forget about going in the passenger side! Or, if I backed it in, I'd have to go out the passenger side.

The garage I'm having built is 24x40 feet, so hopefully tight spaces should be a thing of the past for me. Unless I come home with any more cars and try to start squeezing more in there! hmmm, I wonder how tight it would be to get 3 cars, side-by-side, in a 23 foot wide space? :surprise: Probably not a very smart thing to attempt...

Ooh, one other car I just thought of, that you don't see all the time, is the Chevy II/Nova convertible. They're good looking little cars, adequate with the 6-cylinder, downright decent with the V-8, and I don't think prices are too ridiculous on them yet. The Falcon offered a convertible too, but their last year was 1965 I think. Falcons always scared me because the gas tank is about as close to the rear bumper as a Pinto, and Falcons were kinda light and flimsy compared to a Dart/Valiant or Chevy II.

There were also various Rambler/American/Rebel/Classic convertibles offered in the 60's that should be pretty cheap. Unless you're consulting the Rambler club, I guess! For the most part they had a utilitarian, boxy look to them, but some of the later ones were pretty cool.

michaellno

Thanks for the input. Like I said, I haven't given much thought to this, other than making the confession to the wife over the weekend that I've secretly harbored a desire to own something like this. 6 or 8 cylinder? Truth be told, I would admit to enjoying a nice mellow V8 rumble with some nice exhausts; sorta like my dad's '70 Chevy pickup.

Ironically, one of the local morning reporters here in Denver has a deal with the local Rambler club; each year, he has a vote with the viewing public to pick out a Rambler for him to be seen in. I have to admit I was pretty amazed with what is out there.

I suppose that might be my best approach ... look at what I like, then try to find a local club that could assist me with my search. They would know what to look for and might be able to provide leads to available cars.

mohatu

I've seen a new black Chrysler 300 convertible in Lake Geneva, WI. With top down. Kinda strange to see a 4-door convertible. The conversion job must have cost 2-3 times the cost of the car itself to the owner... :surprise:

andre1969

I think I read somewhere that the conversion for the 300C is only something like $4995. Of course, don't hold me to that number, because I think it sounds too good to be true!

chuck1959

Aren't there plans for a 2-door and convert versions of the 300 and the drawing boards for 2007 or 2008? I believe in Europe the Magnum has the 300 front end clip.

andre1969

I think the only potential pitfall of going to a club devoted to a particular car is that they might be biased with regards to the car's value. For instance, I'm sure that members of the Chrysler TC by Maserati club probably think their cars are worth much more than the general public does!

As for 6 versus V-8, definitely go V-8 if you can. In something like a compact Dart, Valiant, or Chevy II, a 6-cyl would save on gas, but on an intermediate it wouldn't save much. And I'm sure something like this would be more of a toy for you, and not daily transportation, so fuel economy probably wouldn't be a major concern, anyway. And the nice thing about a V-8 is that, even if it's a mild one with no guts, you can still get it to sound nice!

Mr_Shiftright

Just be sure to pick a car that has a ready aftermarket. Don't try and restore a Studebaker or Rambler, or some of the more obscure Chrysler products, and remember the smaller the engine, the smaller the price (even if the car gets bigger). Also the simpler the car (fewer power options) the cheaper it costs to fix up as a rule.

stkntraffic

I took the wife on vacation to the Grand Canyon a few weeks ago... there was some kind of Maserati owners convention going on. I would say close to 30 Maseratis in the parking lot of one of the lodges, ranging from ancient to brand-new. I was surprised because (1) I've never seen so many Maseratis in one place and (2) that they made it there under their own power. Pretty impressive.

au94

Andre makes some great points. If it were me, I'd look for a late 60's early 70's Cougar convert. They're available with A V-8 and parts would not be too difficult to find, not as common as a Mustang, but still not too bad. As Andre correctly stated anything that can be built into a "clone" muscle car is going up sharply in value. Why, I don't understand, to me a clone SS Chevelle or 440 Six Pack Mopar is worth only as much as a standard model. Don't ask me why they are getting sick money for a car that is not original. Sorry to digress, but ANY convertible variant you chose is going to be more pricy than the hard top equivilant. Just be careful when buying your car. Any older car can be a money pit. Since your not in a hurry, I'd advise visiting car shows and talking to people. Car people are great and love to share the hobby so I'm sure you can pick up helpful hints on what to look for in a potential new "baby". Also, Hemmings Motor news might be a helpful publication for you.

michaellno

Funny, I just spent some time perusing the Hemmings website. All I can say is .... WOW!.

I think I'm going to have to rethink how much this might cost me. Most of the cars I found were in the $15-22K range.

andre: your comments about 'myopia' (for lack of a better term) makes sense to me.

I'll keep an eye out for shows and see what's what. Getting to that time of year here in Denver where most folks put their nice toys away for the winter.

andre1969

also, don't let some of those prices intimidate you. When Grbeck and I go to Carlisle, I think our general rule of thumb is to halve the asking price, and then work your way down from there if that still seems like too much!

Good luck with your search though...often the thrill of the hunt is the most exciting part!

stickguy

I saw a Nissan Axxess AWD van today. haven't seen one of them in years.

lemko

...I just saw a teal green 1971 Chevrolet Impala convertible on my way home from work.

bumpy

has a second-gen Corvair coupe, and I'm halfway tempted to buy the thing. A 2500-lb RWD car seems like it would be fun to drive, but a rear-engine domestic probably rides like a pig and handles like a mule. I should probably just find a high-mileage 240SX to scratch my light RWD itch.

bumpy

'59 El Camino:


Yes, they had those silly batwings:


The El Camino was another case of GM jumping on someone's bandwagon, in this case the '57 Ford Ranchero:

chuck1959

I saw 2, yes 2 1969 Pontiac Catalina 8 door airport limo's. They were even on the road. Also in pretty decent shape.

jlawrence01

I was driving down Main St in Whitewater, WI and saw the following vehicles on an old car carrier:

1) Two rusting hulks - 50's era Pontiac Bonnevilles
2) A '56-58 Chevy Bellair in decent shape.
3) An old Jeep Willy convertable.
4) An old British car with no markeings - late 40's early 50s.
5) A 2000-2002 Corbin motors electric one-seater

There were two other vehicles and a motorcycle ... looks like a storage rack ... too bad they are not inside.

I have pictures but don't know how to post them ...">

kyfdx

1) 1988 BMW M5.. in black, of course.. He was turning on to the interstate ramp in front of me, while I waited at the signal... He was barely at the top of the ramp by the time I turned on to the ramp, but I never got another look at him... and, I was trying very hard.. :surprise:

2) Just about five miles down the road.... BMW 320i... in white... and pretty ragged.. A very rare sighting any more... last year for them was '83.

imidazol97

What was the first and last year for the Ranchero? 57-???
What was the first and last year for the El Camino? 59-???

fintail

I can guess...Ranchero....79? El Camino...87, maybe 88

I haven't seen an original M5 in some time. I still remember the Pirelli poster featuring that car

andys120

Yeah 320is are rarely seen anymore. They aren't highly regarded by the Bimmer crowd
due to their combination of weight and four cylinder power but they are still among the best looking of all the 3ers, IMO.

boomchek

Those Japanoid cars are driving around Vancouver. The company is based out of here.

kyfdx

Yeah... for a long time, I thought the full model name was "much maligned 320i"..

It is still one of my favorite BMWs... I thought they had great performance for the time period ('77-'83), even with the four-cylinder...

regards,
kyfdx

chuck1959

Ranchero 1957-59....Fairlane based
1960-66 Falcon based
1967 small Fairlane based
1968-1976 Torino based
1977-1979 LTD II based

El Camino 1959-60 Impala based
1961-62 no produced
1963-77 Chevelle (Malibu?) based
1978-87 downsized Malibu based

imidazol97

Thanks/.

fintail

Yeah I saw that. Vancouver is a pretty good city for seeing odd cars. Back in the 90s when things were more free, it was also a good place for an MB enthusiast, as I think it had some of the highest per capita sales in the world. I don't know if it still does.

A yellow Murcielago just droned by my window

Mr_Shiftright

I had a much maligned 320i and I much maligned it. It was a better car than the 2002 in every way but one---in reality. Actually most of the malignment was directed toward the price, which was outrageous for what you got.

chuck1959

I saw an 1958 Edsel Ranchero. It was actually a 1957 Ranchero with a 1958 Edsel front in.

imidazol97

Was there an Edsel version of the Ranchero at some point?

andre1969

never did get a version of the Ranchero, but considering that the two cheaper Edsel series in 1958, the Ranger and Pacer, were essentially rebadged Fords, it wouldn't have been hard to make one. The pricier Corsair and Citation models were Mercury-based.

Now in Canada, there might have been a Mercury version of the Ranchero, but I'm not sure.

lemko

...a GMC version of the El Camino called the Caballero.

jrosasmc

Was your 320i the thermal reactor version (1977-79) or the one with the cats (1980-82)?

kyfdx

Well... I had the benefit of coming straight from Detroit iron of the '70s, and right into trying out the 320i... And, since it wasn't mine, and I wasn't paying for it, I thought it was the coolest thing I'd ever driven, at the time....

I also thought it was a great looking car... still do...

I also saw a mid-late '80s 6-series at lunch today...

Mr_Shiftright

It was a 1981 as I recall. It's the BMW that everyone loves to hate.

jrosasmc

Today in contrast I saw a '95 E34 525i that was in impeccable condition (last year of that model). That's a BMW that everyone loves, in contrast to the 320

ghulet

Today I saw a very nice (read: not rusty) Triumph Spitfire (with 'Spitfire 1500' tape decals; ah yes, back from the days when stripes made cars faster) in a nice period red/orange with kinda spiffy houndstooth cloth interior. Also, a fairly shabby daily driver '72 Buick LeSabre four-door sedan, with two young guys inside; seems like a fairly strange choice as either a driver or a potential 'collectible'. And one for Fintail, a really beautiful 280SE 4.5 (so that would be a '72 or '73, right), in a color I think they called Orient Blue at the time, it's a bit darker and slightly more gray than the fintail, with matching hubcaps.

andys120

Yeah there's still a lot of nice E34s in this area, I'll see several in the course of a week.

fintail

Yep, a 4.5 would be a very late W108. I am not familiar with the color name, but the color itself sounds familiar. The fintail's color was originally called "hellblau" (bright blue), then changed to "China Blue" and was used with maybe slight modifications til the early 80s - I've seen it on 107s and 123s and early 126s.

lemko

...beautiful white 1975 Pontiac Grand Ville convertible with unusual maroon top.

kyfdx

'66 Mustang GT convertible... in sort of a dull copper color..

Top down... looked to be restored to original condition.. 289 V-8