I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

ubbermotor

Marks IV, V, VII and VIII.

andre1969

T-bird and Mark IV shared the same platform. 120.4" wheelbase, probably around 230" long overall, and I think the Mark was around 5200 lb, although the T-bird was a few hundred lb lighter IIRC.

In 1977, Ford took its old 1971-76 Torino/Montego intermediate platform and gave it a heavy facelift with crisper, more modern looking sheetmetal. The Torino became the LTD-II, while the Montego became the Cougar. The '74-76 Cougar was also on the Torino platform, but for '77 the name also covered the sedan and wagon models. The '77-79 T-bird moved to this platform, and went down in history as being the most successful generation to ever bear the T-bird name.

The Mark V wasn't a whole new platform, but just a major restyle of the '72-76 Mark IV/T-bird. I don't think it was really much bigger though, around 230-231 inches, and I'm sure a lot of that was just in the bumpers that stuck out more. IIRC it actually shed around 500 pounds in the transformation as well.

Now for 1980, the T-bird went to the compact Fox (Fairmont) platform, while the Mark VI was on the downsized full-sized Panther (Crown Vic) platform.

For 1984-92, the Mark VII was on the Fox platform, same as the T-bird, but for the Mark it was heavily modified and beefed up, and probably outweighed the T-bird by around 700+ pounds.

And I think the Mark VIII was actually based on that final 1989-97 T-bird/Cougar platform.

Oh yeah, I'm not sure on this, but those '67-71 T-birds, the ones that offered a 4-door and often had a beak, might have shared some architecture with the Lincolns. Those T-birds and the Lincolns were unitized, but I think the Mark III was body-on-frame.

lemko

Those "beaked" 'Birds of 1970-71 were the influence of Bunkie Knudsen who was briefly Ford's president. Bunkie had come over from GM and I guess he wanted the T-Bird to look more like a Pontiac.

mazda6iguy

An '81 or '82 Ford Granada while on the way to pick up lunch.

fintail

Very cool, with a price from another planet

Silly cars bring silly money

I've always liked these somehow

Wow

Can't be many of these left

Car from a movie

I've seen these bring big money in Europe....of course, in better condition

It's hard to get pimpier than this...not just a Seville opera coupe, but a bustleback. I've only seen 1st gen Sevilles like this

Talk of celebrity provenance + no paperwork = don't bother typing

Now this is a muscle wagon

Gettin up there

Lots of money for this, but it sure is nice...love the interior

Andre mobile

Or maybe this

imidazol97

Riatta. Don't know years. Dark gray. In great shape by appearance of the wheels and paint. Must have been garaged. Haven't seen one for a while around here.

Saw a Tempest--one of those with the rear transmission sitting in a driveway like it's a daily driver.

bumpy

That Starfire is nice, but I don't think it's $20k nice. $15k would seem to be fair if it has the 10.5 version of the 394.

prosa

The posting for the Amphicar says it was "never driven in the rain." I mean, if any car is okay for wet-weather driving ...
It's a little odd that the driver's-side doors on the '82 Peugeot are stuck shut.

Keep up the good work, I look forward each week to your messsage with the interesting eBay postings.

ubbermotor

No kidding WOW, and no kidding "reserve not met". I'd say there are a couple of digits missing in the high bid there. But hey, they can dream right?

andys120

It's not surprising that you like the Pug 604, it's basically a Franco Mercedes S-Class.

If I had a nickel for every car that was supposedly owned by Sinatra, I'd have enough money to buy Sinatra's Yacht.

andre1969

when I was a kid I had a fascination with those Peugeot 505's. I think it's because the front-end had just a little slant to it around the headlight area that gave it a unique, almost aggressive look to it.

I like that '76 Olds 98. Nice color scheme, and overall, I think pretty tasteful for an era when pimpiness ruled the streets. I don't think Pontiac was as tasteful with the Grand Ville, although that one is kinda cool. I wonder why the bid is up so high on it, though? +/-$1825? Wouldn't a pristine example of one of these only fetch around $5-6K? Seems like this one's pretty ratty, once you look past the first couple of pics. Lots of rust in the lower areas, mis-aligned door, damage up front, rusty bumper, etc. The interior doesn't look bad, but it also doesn't look like a 26,000 mile car, either!

Bidding's up to only $1000 more on the 98, although God only knows what the reserve is. Seems like a much better deal, plus with the 98 you're going to get the 455 and gobs of torque, although probably only around 205 hp. That 400 in the Grand Ville probably only puts out around 175-180 hp. But then, people don't buy these things for the 0-60 time! :P

Mr_Shiftright

Citroen DS 19 --- these bring big money HERE in the US, too---but this auction really "stinks" for any number of reasons. First of all the first bid must be bogus, as the car is worth nowhere even close to near to around that. You can buy one ready to roll for $40,000. Secondly, he can't even spell the name of the coachbuilder, which is pretty odd, even for a foreigner. I mean, you can just read it off the body. Actual value of this wreck? It's probably not even worth restoring.

TATRA -- also brings good money in the USA but not that good. Again, around $35-40K for a nice one, is all the money. But this does seem to be a very nice one---we'll see what happens. Silly way to run an auction BTW.

Peugeot 604 --- car from hell, really. If someone gives you one, report them to the police before they kill again. Worthless car.

kyfdx

A Plymouth... big one with the garish tail-fins.. Completely restored with a really nice, two-tone metal-flake paint job..

I'm guessing it was a '58 or '59, because it was really ugly, and the really garish, ugly American iron always seems to be one of those two years...

andre1969

it was a 1960 Plymouth? IMO, while '58-59 was a bad time in general for Detroit, for Mopar it was more like 1959-62! I think the 1960 Plymouth takes the cake for all-time ugly Plymouths. A close runner up would be the de-finned 1961. This is the one that sparked a whole generation of goofy-looking Japanese movie monsters, and even continues to influence some of the goofier Japan-imation cartoon critters of today!

The 1959 Plymouth was pretty garish as well, but IMO most of the styling crimes here are committed in the details...the frenched "eyebrows", the eggcrate grille, busy front-end, etc. Otherwise, the basic body isn't bad looking, although the fins are bigger than the '57-58 models. In contrast, I think a 1958 Plymouth is almost too tasteful to be a late 50's car!

kyfdx

Looking at your pictures (thanks for that!), I'm going to say it was a '58... It definitely had the fins that went up to another level.... and, the headlights look the same..

Not sure I would describe it as "tasteful", though..

It was almost the color of your '58 example... though brighter and with the metal flake..

Not sure why anyone would pick this particular car to restore, when there are so many nice Chevys out there.. Just to be different, I suppose..

regards,
kyfdx

fintail

That Citroen bidder actually looks halfway legit based on his feedback. That's what confuses me.

Didn't those 604s have the same oil/transmission fluid problem shared with early Audi 5000s? I just have a memory of one of those from when I was little, they've kind of stuck with me. For some reason I like 504s too.

Would a prewar Tatra be worth more? How about something like a Tatra 77?

thegraduate

A Maybach 57 today in downtown Birmingham. It was just parked on the curb!

fintail

A few goodies today....a very reasonable looking Corvair van, a nice grey MB 500E, and a showroom looking BMW M6, fantastic in red.

scscars

Some real unusual sightings today--A yellow '66 Beaumont (Canadian Chevelle/LeMans)convertible w/black rag top. Those are extremely rare for suburban Chicago, although I saw a red '67 at a cruise night last summer. A few minutes later, saw a new silver Rolls Royce Phantom with 22" chrome rims and low profile tires. :surprise: Couldn't see the driver through the smoked windows.

The '60 Plymouth brings back memories. I learned to drive on a '60 copper and white Fury wagon.

Mr_Shiftright

CITROEN: Well whatever...if some fool wants to pay that price then he's a graduate of the school of hard knocks and doesn't know the market for these cars (yet)...

andre1969

those "French Pastry" style Citroens, but as a convertible, it just doesn't seem to work. I think it's those single-headlights. And plus, with some of that trim missing it off, but honestly, I don't see that big of a stretch from that thing to one of those Packardbaker Hawks! :surprise:

The later style though, with the quad headlights, looks kinda cool. But I think overall, this is one of those styles that looks great as a sedan, but was never meant to be a coupe or convertible. The convertible makes me think of a bumper car at an amusement park.

Mr_Shiftright

The DS covertibles are actually 4 door cars made into two doors. So the doors and most of the trim are no longer available as they were custom made. You'd have to make a lot of the parts, hence restoring that old wreck seems out of the question.

fintail

Really, both the single and quad light DS cars are cool. It's just a fantastic design. Yet another vehicle that as a kid I thought couldn't be uglier. I have read very early cars even had a translucent fiberglass roof. That would be awesome.

Here's a very early (1959) coupe...I think it works



More photos here

By 1966 they acquired some random angularity...it doesn't work so well



Moe photos here

andre1969

that earlier model, with the '53 Plymouth hardtop-looking roofline, actually isn't bad. The '66 model makes me think of the way Studebaker squared off the Hawk for '62...except that Studebaker did a better job of it!

stickguy

I like that bad boy. Must be a beast to drive.

That's what Dodge needs to make now. A nice Magnum wagon with a Hemi and a stick shift. Even better, stick the Viper powertrain in there if it will fit.

andre1969

I wonder if a V-10 would fit in the Magnum's engine bay? It's really not a HUGE engine, as it's just a Mopar smallblock wedge with two more cylinders added. But then nowadays the way they tighten up engine bays, it might be a squeeze. Still, if a 426 Hemi can be shoehorned into a PT Cruiser, or a 351Windsor into a Focus, I'm guess anything's possible!

ubbermotor

Yeah, the only reason I haven't gone in to get a Magnum R/T Hemi is becuase there is no stick. You cant even get one on the SRT-8.

british_rover

A vehicle I want to build real bad but never will because they don't over the magnum with a stick is this car.

An awd mid-engined coupe using the powertrain of the magnum turned backwards. The front drive axel of the magnum would be the rear drive axel of my car and the rear of the magnum would be the front of my car.

Build it all around a light weight tube chassis with a kevlar or fiberglass body. Maybe supercharge the engine maybe not.

Something along the lines of this vehicle that they guy has been building for years. KMINI

andre1969

if the new Hemi uses the same transmission bolt pattern as the smallblock wedge? I know some dimensions of the Hemi are the same, such as the bore center spacing. And I forget which dimension it is, but either the bore or the stroke is the same dimension as a 360. Maybe a Viper tranny would mate up to the Hemi? And don't the trucks offer a stick shift? I know, not with the Hemi, but I thought the V-10 and the 4.7 OHC offered a stick? But then, I dunno if a truck tranny is optimal for a performance car?

british_rover

Gear spacing would be all wrong and the throw on the tranny would be huge.

Probably better off getting a custom unit from Richmond by the time you would be done modifiying the Truck NVG6500. I think that is the 6 speed ofered with the V10 in the trucks. It has the super low first gear.

fintail

Today in the rain I spotted a red Mustang California Special, and a beige Dodge Dart like the one in 'Duel' - maybe even the same year. Both cars looked pristine, the Dart looked brand new. Sometimes rain can do that to old cars though.

andre1969

Speaking of "Duel", yesterday that '58 Peterbilt tanker finally caught up with Dennis Weaver. He passed away at 81. Let's all have a moment of rememberance.

Just out of tribute, I watched "Duel" last night. It's amazing how well-preserved it is...looks like it was just shot yesterday, instead of about 35 years ago. I guess that's one reason why it kinda shocked me that Dennis Weaver was that old! But then again, if he was on Gunsmoke way back in 1955, he wasn't no spring chicken!

fintail

These are for you lemko....you mentioned in an email (in carspace, which I currently can't get into to reply) that you have the Matchbox 64 Impala and the Caddy Ambulance.

On the GM thing, Matchbox had a couple of other period GM vehicles which you might be interested in

58 Caddy

59 Impala

60 Pontiac

64 Pontiac

It's kind of surprising to me, as most of their cars were Euro, and the Matchbox fad didn't really take hold in a huge way in NA til the mid-late 60s.

They also made a 56 Ford, 59 Ford, a 58-60 T-Bird, a 61 Ford, and a 65 Ford. No Mopars that I recall, save for a couple trucks.

explorerx4

last week i took a couple hour drive in my focus to visit my sister. a one point a i got behind a tanker truck going up a winding road. i had that creepy feeling i was reliving the movie. i was waiting for the driver to wave me by on a curve.

ghulet

I also have the 64 Impala taxi, and a 65 Galaxie 500 Fire sedan (fire chief car).

lemko

I didn't realize that MB made these cars. I like the silver wheels on the Caddy.

fintail

No problem

Some of those are some more desireable cars, esp the Caddy and 59 Impala, so they will set you back a little if you seek them. The ambulance and 64 Impala are relatively common.

fintail

I thought of a few more Matchbox that some here might like
There was a later Mopar product - this is a VERY popular model now

The Mustang fastback is an all time favorite for many

59 Ford

T-Bird

61 Ford - also available as a fire chief car

65 Ford

Mercury Cougar

68 Mercury wagon

There was also this Lincoln (the more common blue-green color is worth maybe $30 boxed

These resemble a 3/4 scale 57 Pontiac - I have 2 of this car

ghulet

I had the Lincoln and Cougar (the Cougar with the newer style wheels, though) and a larger version of the Mercury wagon. Don't know where they are now, unfortunately.

andre1969

Cougar wagon that's almost that same shade of green as that '68 Merc wagon.

fintail

Here's that Cougar wagon

The newer style wheels are called "Superfast", introduced ca. 1971, an answer to the free-rolling Hot Wheels cars.

andre1969

that's it! Wow, it's amazing how much of this stuff there is on eBay! I also have this little gem packed away somewhere.

Now I'm kind of in the mood to find my old matchbox cars. They're either packed in my grandmother's attic, or out in her garage. I don't think I've seen 'em for a good 10 years or more now.

andre1969

a few months ago, my Granddad gave me a box with a bunch of Matchbox and other toy cars that us grandkids used to play with (and beat up) when we were little. One of them looks like this Benz, except that it's a copper-brown color and I think it has the Superfast wheels. I just remember thinking it was kinda odd because it looks like a 2-door sedan...did Mercedes make the real version of these in a 2-door sedan, or just 4-door sedan and 2-door hardtop?

fintail

You can find so much on ebay. It's really hard for me to control myself sometimes.

I have that 450SEL too, in its box even. I have a tub full of cars from my childhood, but most are playworn and aren't too pretty. I only avidly seek the ones made up to about 1960 or so. Today the big money is in early (pre 1960) Matchbox, rare varieties, and early Hot Wheels.

fintail

That 300SE 2-door was only made in a hardtop.

I think this is the car you speak of

These are called "transitional" - pre-Superfast body with Superfast wheels.

fintail

They made a proper hardtop W111 coupe too, ca. 1962

ghulet

Guess I forgot how many Matchbox I had (some I still have). I do still have that 300SE coupe, in blue, though IIRC it has no trunk lid )-;, a wide variety of other Benzes (a blue 450SEL, gold 450SL, a 300E, and an off-brand 500SEL and 190E 2.3-16), still have the green Mercury Cougar wagon (though I think it might have some 'collision' damage to it). I also still have a red Dodge Challenger with white 'vinyl' top, in really nice condition.

michaellno

I was an avid Matchbox collector as a kid. Got the "regular" models for play and each Christmas I would get a "Models of Yesteryear" for collecting. These were the larger models.

I think most of these are packed away in my garage somewhere. I wonder how much they're all worth?

lemko

I have a white limousine made by Majorette that resembles a 1989 Cadillac Brougham! Also have a Hotwheels car of a 1980-85 Cadillac Seville. Somebody gave me a purple car that's supposed to be a Seville STS by some unknown maker, but it's really crude and barely resembles the car. Per the "Models of Yesteryear," I still have the red 1936 Cord 812 from over 25 years ago. I have the large Matchbox car of a 1970s Plymouth Gran Fury as a taxi. Didn't they also make a Chevrolet Caprice taxi in this scale or was that Corgi?

fintail

Yeah, in the 80s Matchbox had a 300E and 500SEC. I had a few versions of the latter. The 190E was probably a Majorette, I had a couple of that one too, in various colors. The 450SL was a 70s Matchbox. There was also a Tomica (pocket car) 450SEL and a surprisingly well done Hot Wheels 380SEL. Even then, I was into MB.

Tomica/pocket cars also had a bustleback Seville, it was far superior to the Hot Wheels version. When I was 5 or 6 my uncle went to Japan and brought me back some cars, this Seville was among them. I had those Majorette limos too, those all got destroyed.

I think you are right on the Corgi Caprice. Corgi also had a Buick Regal sedan from the 70s.

Value is difficult to guess, as condition is everything, and some varieties are worth a fortune (a grey wheeled Impala Taxi, MIB, should be worth at least $1500 if not a bit more). If they are playworn, values rarely exceed several dollars apiece. Early models and varieties bring more.