I saw not one, but TWO fairly new BMW 740iL sedans. One was black and one was dark green. I'm not sure what timespan these were produced, but it's the prior generation, pre-Bangled. I always thought these were sharp looking cars, with their low beltlines, low decklids, and clean, chiseled good looks. How are these things as they age? As expensive and annoying as prior generations of 7-series?
As for the Ford Fairmont, I think the later models, and higher trim levels with the quad headlights were okay looking cars. Nothing to have a wet dream over, but nothing really offensive, either. Just kinda there. Generic looking for the time, but now they tend to stick out a bit more simply because they're not that common anymore.
All 7 series after the E23s seem to be bottomless money pits. Nice cars to drive, though, so they are seductive (as all dangerous things tend to be).
Yeah, "good-looking" is supposed to be a subjective point of view, although I don't think it is entirely subjective. The more one studies design principles of proportion, function and reference to the world around the object, the more coherent the criticisms one might make on the subject.
The more one studies design principles of proportion, function and reference to the world around the object, the more coherent the criticisms one might make on the subject
The 57-58 Eldo Brougham has an elegance to it. Maybe not "beautiful", but classy and swank no less.
The previous 5er (M5) included is a very balanced and harmonious design. Beautiful? I don't know...but there's little room to improve it.
I don't get turned on by the Maser...the Bentley Sedan is the "Flying Spur" (I saw one on my commute home today) and it is very cool...but I don't see any beauty, more like clout.
And then my bias can show through...I find the MB 108/109 sedans and coupes to be quite timeless and really just about beautiful for their market position (luxobarge). I also love the looks of 126 sedans and coupes, although I wouldn't call them beautiful...I think they are pretty perfect. The 124 is up there too.
is a beautiful car. Actually, I like all the '57-58 Caddies. The '58 models are a bit too heavy on the chrome, but the '57's were nice.
I'd say the '59 Caddy is anything BUT beautiful, but then its coolness and desireability lies in its overdone-ness, so it doesn't NEED to be beautiful! But then the '60, which is the same car just with lower fins and less chrome, seems boring to me.
My favorite Caddies from that timeframe are probably the '61-62 models. They're almost sporty and nimble looking for a car that size, and cleanly styled. Even though the '61 Lincolns came out at the same time, I wonder if they had some influence on the '61-62 Caddy? Not as a direct copy job, but at least some influence in making it look cleaner, and sportier?
I saw a fairly new Bentley the other week. It was behind me. I'm not up on my Bentel terminology, but it was a smallish, but still heavy looking coupe. From dead-on in the front it actually looked pretty goofy...like it had a crosseyed look to it.
a very nice looking late-60s Volvo P1800 coupe in my parking lot. Have to find out who owns that one.
On the road, a 1970s vintage "eyebrow" Ford F150. I always thought they looked goofy with the grill that curved up in front of the hood lip, with the parking lights (I guess) above the headlights. At least around me, you don't see many left from that vintage.
Oh, I think the older (50s) bently Conts. came in 2 or 4 door styles.
but I vaguely recall that Ford pickups from the 70's had a severe rusting problem. They seem extremely rare around here, too. I still see 70's GMCs and Chevies on a fairly regular basis, but the Fords seem almost extinct.
My ex-wife's father lives in Washington State, and he always swore by Fords. I remember when we went out there on our honeymoon, he had two old 70's Ford pickups. And one of his daughters had the OJ-generation Bronco. His two Fords were beat-up, because he put them to hard work with hauling firewood, but they still seemed pretty solid.
He said he'd NEVER buy a GMC, because that's also the initials of his mother! Gladys Marie Christian, or something like that. I don't know if he had a particular hatred for Chevies, though.
I always liked the curved A-pillar of the 61-62 Caddy (and other GM cars). The 61-62 had that odd little lower fin down around the rear bumper, didn't they? That always caught my eye. I'll say the Continental from those years set the standard in period American elegant design.
P1800s could have been beautiful except that they have "fin disease" and that ruined them from the rear windshield on back IMHO. They also drive like trucks but that's another story... I like the sport wagon versions, the "ES" a lot better.
Hey do you think 240s and 740s drive like trucks too? I think they really do but in their own fun way, know what I mean? (I mean obviously they'll never be fun like a BMW 2002)
Well those cars have power steering and the P1800 doesn't. The P1800 requires a lot of steering effort, and you are also sitting way down on the floor with your ear at the windowsill. So it's very awkward at low speeds and it's a noisy car internally. It really does feel like a truck.
The 240s and 740s just have lots of body roll---they are very American-feeling in that respect, with rolling and no feedback through the steering wheel. But they are easy to drive as long as you don't push them and you can stand the ten piece percussion orchestra under your rear suspension. They remind me a lot of the 300D Mercedes diesels.
I still see 70's GMCs and Chevies on a fairly regular basis, but the Fords seem almost extinct.
These critters?
I still see them around in decent numbers. The GMs might seem more common because they had practically the same body for 15 years, so you have to look for some pretty subtle features to distinguish the '73-79s from the '80-87s.
yeah, that one. Actually, with the GM trucks, they're pretty easy to tell apart. They had round headlights up through 1980 and rectangular from 1981-87. Actually, did they switch to rectangular lights midway through 1980? My great-uncle had a 1980 C20 with round headlights, but then I see trucks like this one, which is also billed as a 1980. Something about the square headlight setup looks kind of awkward and rushed, though. I think they started integrating them a bit better for 1981, but went through a few years of really awkward grilles until around 1984, maybe?
Wasn't 1981 the first year they lowered the front fenders and hood a bit? I'm almost positive my 1985 Silverado has a hood that slopes a bit more than the one I posted above.
That '73 interior looks like it should be driven by some guy with giant sideburns, several gold chains, and a half-smoked cigar. Hard to believe GM went from this to this in less than a decade.
if at some point GM changed the size of the seats in their '73-87 pickups? I remember when Grandmom and Granddad were buying their '85 Silverado, Grandmom was convinced that it had been downsized from their '76 GMC Sierra. Well, that Sierra was a 3/4 ton crew cab, while the Silverado was a half-ton regular cab, so it was smaller in that sense.
Anyway, I remember Grandma taking a tape measure to the Sierra's seat cushion, and also to the '85 Silverado, and saying that it WAS narrower. I wonder if the fact that the Sierra was a crew cab, with a fixed seatback, compared to the Silverado, with its seatback that folded forward, made any difference? Seems to me that it shouldn't. Or, maybe at some point they just rounded off the seat cushion, or reshaped it to make entry/exit easier?
As for those interior pics, I can't tell a difference in the redesigned dash of the later models, except that they got rid of that tacky plood.
spotted a Mercede 250 sedan circa 1972, in Berkeley, (Rockridge actually) with 6 neat bullet holes in a diagonal line running from passenger windshield through front cowl and along front fender. Automatic weapon I would guess...
Totally cool look. It gave the car a whole new ambience...
Very clean low-mileage 126s are out there, as you probably know...however they will take some time to find as there aren't many like that. I'm assuming you'll pay a premium for one too. Example: I knew of a '91 420SEL in my area that had 60k original miles, and the original owner sold the car last summer for $15,500.
Yeah, I know they exist...I'm just seeing more beaters out there as time goes on. I like these cars, but reasonably, I don't know when I'll have another, as I just have no place to store it. I do like seeing that the cars have at least a small following. 15K for a sedan is big bucks, usually only the best coupes bring that. I can easily say the 126 is one of the best all-around large cars ever built, if not the best.
...1980s AMC Jeep Grand Wagoneer. This vehicle still sported 1963-era Brooks Steven's styling albeit in much modified form. It was in pretty decent shape except for extensive rust in the weirdest place - on the upper right hand corner of the license plate cove on the tailgate.
there's someone around here who still plows with a truck like that(not as upscale looking). for my birthday i got speed channel. there is a barrett-jackson show on at times. i can't believe people are paying a 120k for made up chrysler cars with 'hemi added'. just crazy.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
well you have to remember that these 120K cars are fully documented, very very rare (in some case only a couple dozen made with that engine) and restored over-the-top in meticulous, tedious detail, down to the correct NOS air filter wing nut. The cars you see in local shows are not these cars.
Still, even with all these qualifiers, basically that 120K car is just a Dodge taxi cab with a different engine in it.
- I like the DeSoto hot rod. Since it's not worth terribly much in original shape, what's the harm? It's one of a kind and looks decently done
- I can't beleive that there are 8 people in the world interested in a Renault Alliance limo
- With the Town & Country, what is he selling? It's so rusty, that it's not even a pile of parts. You get the plate off it, but what can you do with that?
I think the bucket seats and center console were an option on the Park Ave. I think Fintail posted one of those last week. IIRC, the Park Ave did have the plush, loose-pillow velour seats, whereas the Limited had more of a corduruoy look to its seats, although they were still very plush.
I like that Toro XS, too. I always thought that wraparound rear window was the coolest thing.
a Bonanza within a few minutes of each other this afternoon. It happened to be beautiful today, so amybe some old stuff got dusted off.
First, a mint looking yellow Chevelle SS396. Maybe a '68 ish, but I'm never sure of the years on tht vintage.
THen, parked outside the bowling alley, a nice but not restored looking '70ish Chevelle SS454, with a 4 speed! My favorite domestic muscle body style was always the '70-'72 Chevelle, and the 4 speed really made me want this one!
Then, a decent looking rubber bumper MG-B, with the worst replacement top I have ever seen. Light tan (on a red car), poor fit, and an oversized rear window that was all wavy. Looked more like Saran wrap!
Saw a Pale yellow 68-69 camaro Z28 convertiable with a white top streak past me today.
Also saw a mid 70's Z28 in fire engine red with a 4 inch cowl hood and massive drag radials explode past me. Had to have been mini-tubbed at the very least.
Shelby GT500 convertible (an "Elinor" model). top down, even though it was about to rain (it was parked). For some reason the top stowed didn't look quite right..
GIven where it was, and how rare they are, wouldn't surprise me if it was a clone, but I was driving past so I didn't have a chance to get close enough to tell. In any case, I liked it!
I saw 2 W210 E55 AMGs within about 2 minutes of each other today...that can't be too common.
I also saw a mint c. 86 Ciera, some kind of highline model with a dopey period bodykit and lacy wheels, followed by a same period Buick Century which was in similar condition. I remember back in the day when that platform was everywhere...around 1985, there were like 4 of em on my block alone. Then came the Camcords...
When my wife was living in Wyoming (in her first marriage) she aspired to one of those Cutlass Cieras in the worst way.
IIRC, all versions (except the Buick one), offered some sort of "sport" package that tightened up the suspension, added a few pieces of body work and included alloy wheels.
I remember looking at an '87 Camry back when they first came out -- pretty nice car for the money, even though it was smaller than what was offered by the US manufactueres at the time. Of course, in the late 80's I was living in Southern California, where everybody, it seemed, bought imports and the domestics were looked down upon.
the vehicles i am referring to are not 'hemi' vehicles originally. they were not presented that way, so that is fair. i think the 'elinor' was a made for a movie car, not a production model. either way, still a convertible with rumble!
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
...offered a 'sporty' version of the Century for a while (the T-type), I think just for '86-88, which were sort of their heyday, if there was one. I seem to remember it having buckets and console and in some versions, a rather gaudy two-tone leather interior, as well as the usual alloys, along with the 3.8 V6 with a then-impressive 165hp (recall, Maximas, turbo Saabs and Volvos had 160hp, Caddies had a weak 4.1 V8 and CamCords didn't offer V6s at all). The Cutlass Ciera version was called the 'International', a friend's parents had one, bought the same time ('86 model year) my mom bought a new Toyota Cressida (RWD predecessor to the Avalon). The Ciera felt sportier (more torque along with some fairly serious torque steer, stiffer suspension, beefier tires, generally more masculine), I loved it. The Cressida, though, was no slouch (had the same 2.8 six as the Supra, IIRC) and was miles ahead in luxuries (power sunroof, 'memory' tilt wheel, superior stereo, heated mirrors). Probably a bit better balanced due to its RWD. Both stickered around $17k at the time, IIRC. A fairly similar BMW 528e (with 35 fewer hp) was about $10k more.
So there's probably more than you ever wanted to know about twenty year-old sedans.
Yeah this must have been an International, now that I remember them with the factory wheels they wore. I'm pretty sure it was an 86 - old style headlights, but a 3rd rear brakelight.
We had a 84 Ciera, I think it was a 'Brougham'...it had some kind of badge on the B-pillar, I think that's what it said. It was pretty plush inside, and had dopey rattly fake wire wheelcovers that somehow were a step above the Olds style plain wheels. It had the 3.0. It was decently equipped, but was some kind of leftover car my dad found for a good price, so it had an AM radio only - even as a little kid I found this kind of odd. It had a persistent "cricket" chirp in the dash that was never cured. The early Taurus that replaced it seemed like a car of the future.
a 1989 Bonneville that was actually fairly quick. I have no idea what its 0-60 times were but I had gone as fast as 130 mph in it. On one occasion during a 250 mile road trip with perfect weather I broke the 40 mpg mark in the car as well. I was probably averging close to 70 mph the whole way too.
I actually almost took it to the drag strip one day but as I was checking the car out that afternoon I noticed a strange noise.
I got out my mechanics stethescope and with the help of a friend we figured out I had broken the timing chain tensinor. I wasn't going to go drag racing and risk breaking the chain.
Replacing the timing chain turned into about a month long affair because the first crank seal I got had a nick in it so it leaked oil every where. I took everything apart but as I was pulling the water pump off I broke a bolt off in the timing chain cover. I had to get a new one of those and as long as I had the whole passenger side of the motor apart I went ahead and repalced all the sensors on that side too.
I pulled the oil pan and cleaned out all the gunk from in the engine and put on a new oil pick up tube and stranier.
By the time I was done that motor ran like it was brand new instead of having 130,000 miles on it.
I sold it to a friend of a guy that worked for me right before I moved up to CT. I sold it to hime for 600 bucks and last time I talked to him it was still running strong.
looks incredible but why would nobody ever drive it?? If the original owner was looking for a collectible, there were surely more desirable cars for similar money in 1972.
I think there are a few dealers out there who put cars away. I remember back in the early 90s maybe there was some Ford dealer back east who would put a couple cars away every year, and they were auctioning off the collection. There were many 427 cars in this lot, all of them with like under 100 miles on them. Many highline Mustangs too, this stuff must have bought big money. I wish I remember more info...but I bet that's what happened to that nice Buick. But why a wagon?
I suspect that yellow Dodge is a period custom rather than a real prototype...but it was made when I was 2, so I could be wrong.
Comments
What about:
Last Gen M5
Maserati Quattrone
Bentley Continental GT
Late 50s Caddy
I know that this is a debate that can never be decided. Before we know it, we'll have the Ford Fairmont crowd weighing in.
As for the Ford Fairmont, I think the later models, and higher trim levels with the quad headlights were okay looking cars. Nothing to have a wet dream over, but nothing really offensive, either. Just kinda there. Generic looking for the time, but now they tend to stick out a bit more simply because they're not that common anymore.
Yeah, "good-looking" is supposed to be a subjective point of view, although I don't think it is entirely subjective. The more one studies design principles of proportion, function and reference to the world around the object, the more coherent the criticisms one might make on the subject.
I guess I better shut up, then.. :surprise:
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What about:
Last Gen M5
Maserati Quattrone
Bentley Continental GT
Late 50s Caddy
Last Gen M5
One of my all-time favorite cars.. they make me drool.. but, not just because of the looks.. Still like the Alfa
Maserati
Nah.. Doesn't do it for me.. That sort of shape should be a coupe, anyway.
Bentley Continental GT
Is that a 4-door? I thought the GTs were coupes..
Late 50s Caddy
I'm just not a big fan of cars pre-'62.. Probably just an age-related thing...
Okay, now I'll shut up..
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The previous 5er (M5) included is a very balanced and harmonious design. Beautiful? I don't know...but there's little room to improve it.
I don't get turned on by the Maser...the Bentley Sedan is the "Flying Spur" (I saw one on my commute home today) and it is very cool...but I don't see any beauty, more like clout.
And then my bias can show through...I find the MB 108/109 sedans and coupes to be quite timeless and really just about beautiful for their market position (luxobarge). I also love the looks of 126 sedans and coupes, although I wouldn't call them beautiful...I think they are pretty perfect. The 124 is up there too.
I'd say the '59 Caddy is anything BUT beautiful, but then its coolness and desireability lies in its overdone-ness, so it doesn't NEED to be beautiful! But then the '60, which is the same car just with lower fins and less chrome, seems boring to me.
My favorite Caddies from that timeframe are probably the '61-62 models. They're almost sporty and nimble looking for a car that size, and cleanly styled. Even though the '61 Lincolns came out at the same time, I wonder if they had some influence on the '61-62 Caddy? Not as a direct copy job, but at least some influence in making it look cleaner, and sportier?
I saw a fairly new Bentley the other week. It was behind me. I'm not up on my Bentel terminology, but it was a smallish, but still heavy looking coupe. From dead-on in the front it actually looked pretty goofy...like it had a crosseyed look to it.
On the road, a 1970s vintage "eyebrow" Ford F150. I always thought they looked goofy with the grill that curved up in front of the hood lip, with the parking lights (I guess) above the headlights. At least around me, you don't see many left from that vintage.
Oh, I think the older (50s) bently Conts. came in 2 or 4 door styles.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
My ex-wife's father lives in Washington State, and he always swore by Fords. I remember when we went out there on our honeymoon, he had two old 70's Ford pickups. And one of his daughters had the OJ-generation Bronco. His two Fords were beat-up, because he put them to hard work with hauling firewood, but they still seemed pretty solid.
He said he'd NEVER buy a GMC, because that's also the initials of his mother! Gladys Marie Christian, or something like that. I don't know if he had a particular hatred for Chevies, though.
The 240s and 740s just have lots of body roll---they are very American-feeling in that respect, with rolling and no feedback through the steering wheel. But they are easy to drive as long as you don't push them and you can stand the ten piece percussion orchestra under your rear suspension. They remind me a lot of the 300D Mercedes diesels.
These critters?
I still see them around in decent numbers. The GMs might seem more common because they had practically the same body for 15 years, so you have to look for some pretty subtle features to distinguish the '73-79s from the '80-87s.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Wasn't 1981 the first year they lowered the front fenders and hood a bit? I'm almost positive my 1985 Silverado has a hood that slopes a bit more than the one I posted above.
That '73 interior looks like it should be driven by some guy with giant sideburns, several gold chains, and a half-smoked cigar. Hard to believe GM went from this to this in less than a decade.
Anyway, I remember Grandma taking a tape measure to the Sierra's seat cushion, and also to the '85 Silverado, and saying that it WAS narrower. I wonder if the fact that the Sierra was a crew cab, with a fixed seatback, compared to the Silverado, with its seatback that folded forward, made any difference? Seems to me that it shouldn't. Or, maybe at some point they just rounded off the seat cushion, or reshaped it to make entry/exit easier?
As for those interior pics, I can't tell a difference in the redesigned dash of the later models, except that they got rid of that tacky plood.
Totally cool look. It gave the car a whole new ambience...
Today I spotted a beautiful 560SEC driven by an older guy...the car was black/dark grey and looked new. The real nice ones are getting harder to find.
for my birthday i got speed channel. there is a barrett-jackson show on at times. i can't believe people are paying a 120k for made up chrysler cars with 'hemi added'. just crazy.
Still, even with all these qualifiers, basically that 120K car is just a Dodge taxi cab with a different engine in it.
Nice trail
These had a low survival rate
Why???
That steering wheel looks unsafe
Better than it ending up like this
Seville of a different kind
Now this is a Buick
"classic american icon"
Elvis would have liked it
Low mileage Seville
Wow
Wow again
Fins on trucks = cool, this one is apparently unique too
Not terribly unusual, but the "Kuhlmeister" sticker is very cool
XS or excess
- I can't beleive that there are 8 people in the world interested in a Renault Alliance limo
- With the Town & Country, what is he selling? It's so rusty, that it's not even a pile of parts. You get the plate off it, but what can you do with that?
- The rear window on that Toro is just weird
Good pics this week. Thanks.
That XS Toro....god if I had the money. I love those! That "weird" top is what makes that a gem.
I like that Toro XS, too. I always thought that wraparound rear window was the coolest thing.
First, a mint looking yellow Chevelle SS396. Maybe a '68 ish, but I'm never sure of the years on tht vintage.
THen, parked outside the bowling alley, a nice but not restored looking '70ish Chevelle SS454, with a 4 speed! My favorite domestic muscle body style was always the '70-'72 Chevelle, and the 4 speed really made me want this one!
Then, a decent looking rubber bumper MG-B, with the worst replacement top I have ever seen. Light tan (on a red car), poor fit, and an oversized rear window that was all wavy. Looked more like Saran wrap!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Also saw a mid 70's Z28 in fire engine red with a 4 inch cowl hood and massive drag radials explode past me. Had to have been mini-tubbed at the very least.
GIven where it was, and how rare they are, wouldn't surprise me if it was a clone, but I was driving past so I didn't have a chance to get close enough to tell. In any case, I liked it!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I also saw a mint c. 86 Ciera, some kind of highline model with a dopey period bodykit and lacy wheels, followed by a same period Buick Century which was in similar condition. I remember back in the day when that platform was everywhere...around 1985, there were like 4 of em on my block alone. Then came the Camcords...
IIRC, all versions (except the Buick one), offered some sort of "sport" package that tightened up the suspension, added a few pieces of body work and included alloy wheels.
I remember looking at an '87 Camry back when they first came out -- pretty nice car for the money, even though it was smaller than what was offered by the US manufactueres at the time. Of course, in the late 80's I was living in Southern California, where everybody, it seemed, bought imports and the domestics were looked down upon.
i think the 'elinor' was a made for a movie car, not a production model. either way, still a convertible with rumble!
So there's probably more than you ever wanted to know about twenty year-old sedans.
We had a 84 Ciera, I think it was a 'Brougham'...it had some kind of badge on the B-pillar, I think that's what it said. It was pretty plush inside, and had dopey rattly fake wire wheelcovers that somehow were a step above the Olds style plain wheels. It had the 3.0. It was decently equipped, but was some kind of leftover car my dad found for a good price, so it had an AM radio only - even as a little kid I found this kind of odd. It had a persistent "cricket" chirp in the dash that was never cured. The early Taurus that replaced it seemed like a car of the future.
I actually almost took it to the drag strip one day but as I was checking the car out that afternoon I noticed a strange noise.
I got out my mechanics stethescope and with the help of a friend we figured out I had broken the timing chain tensinor. I wasn't going to go drag racing and risk breaking the chain.
Replacing the timing chain turned into about a month long affair because the first crank seal I got had a nick in it so it leaked oil every where. I took everything apart but as I was pulling the water pump off I broke a bolt off in the timing chain cover. I had to get a new one of those and as long as I had the whole passenger side of the motor apart I went ahead and repalced all the sensors on that side too.
I pulled the oil pan and cleaned out all the gunk from in the engine and put on a new oil pick up tube and stranier.
By the time I was done that motor ran like it was brand new instead of having 130,000 miles on it.
I sold it to a friend of a guy that worked for me right before I moved up to CT. I sold it to hime for 600 bucks and last time I talked to him it was still running strong.
This has some elegance
I don't see why people go so nuts for this kind of thing
It could be the sole survivor...good luck finding parts
Early model Nissan Armada
This is cool, but wow the price
The best looking 60 Edsel, and it's still odd, especially from behind
Buick truck
Interesting "new" car
So much weirdness for one car
"Grip King"
Not many of these left that haven't been used as 70s police cars in movies
Little freakshow
Nice pics this week. Thanks.
I was wondering the same about the Buick Wagon, why wasn't it driven.
I suspect that yellow Dodge is a period custom rather than a real prototype...but it was made when I was 2, so I could be wrong.