Now I'm not that good at identifying muscle cars, so you guys can help me out on this one.
It was green, it was two door, and it was a Mopar. It had some kind of Superbee sticker on the rear quarter panel, and on the hood, and had dual hood scoops.
Actually it looked like this, and it looked like an original green color, unrestored. It appeared to be in condition "4" according to my American Car restoration index.
Well, that car pictured above is a '69 Dodge Coronet Superbee, a musclecar for people on a budget. They came with a 383 standard, although you could get a 440 or a Hemi. They were available as a 2-door post, like the one pictured above, a 2-door hardtop, or a convertible.
The top line Dodge musclecar that year was the Coronet R/T, which, IIRC, came with a 440 standard, and did not offer the 2-door post body style.
Values on a Super Bee can vary wildly....depends what's under the hood...a 383 automatic, not so much $$ at all...a 440 w/ optional 390HP could fetch about $50K-$60K for a nicely restored one.
That car as it sits, if it's a 383 auto, is less than $5,000 certainly.
1968 R/T, 440 (non-match), I'd guess a nice "driver's" restoration... he has money, but did it for fun, not as a labor of love or an investment. Pretty car (I'll bet it originally had a vinyl roof... most did)
His quote: This car is an RT--it has a 440 engine with 4-speed, a Holley Street Dominator intake manifold, Hooker exhaust headers, aftermarket clutch, glass pack mufflers, and bigger tires and wheels. Otherwise mostly stock. It run pretty strong and sounds great.
Do the non-matching #s make it a clone? It did start life as an R/T. Of course it's been repainted and I expect that the stripes & decals are reproductions.
Personally, I'd rather have a "driver" than an all-original, show quality car that I would be afraid to take to the grocery store. But then, I'm into practicality. :shades:
Well it's a "440 clone", technically speaking, not an R/T clone. But since the value difference between a 383 and 440 R/T is vast, one could say that the "clone factor" is considerable.
Me, too. A trailer queen 60s Mopar is kind of hilarious, considering how they were originally slammed together by blind men...not in their wildest dreams could Detroit put together a car the way some of these modern restorers have done.
OK, I have a question. I know if the car came with a 383 and is a "440 clone" by the substitution of the larger engine, it is not going to be near the value of an original 440. But if the car originally came with a 440, but someone blew that engine up and it had to be replaced, wouldn't it still have non-matching numbers? Or are the numbers considered matching if the replacement is exactly the same specifications as the original?
2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])
There really aren't "matching numbers" in terms of VIN # to Motor #, so "matching numbers" in a 60s Mopar would mean correct date codes and correct casting numbers on all the parts.
If you could find a date-correct (for your chassis) motor, with a motor # also from that year car, chances are you'd get away with it. And since you already had date-correct manifolds, differential, transmission etc from the original car, no one would be the wiser.
This is why, ultimately, the ace of spades in the often silly game of "matching numbers" is a factory build sheet with the original engine # on it.
Of course, now they are counterfeiting build sheets, complete with instant "aging", so beware...the waters are filled with sharks as you swim from island to island. Stay inside the ropes or hire a lifeguard.
Not a clone then. The 440 was the standard engine in a 1968 Charger R/T. The hemi was the only other choice. Interestingly, a 3-spd auto was standard and the 4-spd manual was optional... at least according to:
The model line up expanded to include the Charger R/T, equipped like the Coronet R/T - it came with a 440 Magnum, heavy duty suspension and brakes, and the bulletproof Torqueflite 727 3 speed auto with a 4 speed manual optional. The rear bumblebee stripes were a deletable option. Hemi sales went up to 467, still quite small.
Oh that's right. I was thinking of the Super Bee with the 383.
So correct, not a "clone". Should be called a NOM car (non-original motor). Not as big a hit on value, but still you gotta figure $10k discount at least. Kinda depends on what else was modified beyond ability to "make it right" and how the other date codes work out.
I didn't realize at the array of cars the Ewings owned. Some had Mercedes, Lincolns, Fords, VW Cabriolet (Miss Ellie's). At one time a Massarati Bi turbo (Bobby) and J.R.s Caddy Allante. Like he would trade his Mercedes for that! LOL In fact I think IIRC there some sort of deal from Cadillac for him to have be seen in that when they first came out instead of his Mercedes. Anyway it was neat to see 80's metal.
When I lived in CA, a coworker leased a new Vigor not long after they came out - must've been '92 or so. I remember it being a real nice looking car - much nicer than the Accord at the time, even though Acura simply streched the Accord to make the Vigor. The inside was quite nice, too, IIRC.
My wife leased a Vigor in 1994.. The residual was 50% for 3yr/45K.. I don't know the money factor, but the finance portion of the lease payment was a whopping $7/mo..
The car had an MSRP of $29K and our lease payment was $312/mo.+ tax..
Saw one drive by as I was eating lunch - didn't know they made them (real targa, removable panel over front seats, fold down rear top, left with a targa bar, just like a 911!). Turns out Griffith hooked up with Toyota and sold about 2000 through dealers.
On my way home from work last night, I caught a glimpse of a pristine 1984/5 Honda Accord 4-dr. What makes this (even remotely) significant is that I have been searching for a decent picture of a 1984 Accord for Mycarspace photo album of "previous cars owned".
I've Googled and looked on Ebay, Craigslist, and Autotrader with very little success. The pictures I've found have been mostly beaters. I guess the majority of 23 year old Accords have gone to That Great Junkyard in the Sky.
But the car I saw last night looked perfect: same dark grey metallic paint (clean & shiney), original wheelcovers, it even had the chrome luggage rack on the trunk lid that I thought looked kinda cool, until the first time I washed it and realized what a PITA it was.
If I had my camera with me, I would have chased the driver down and asked for a photo-op. (If I get arrested for being a psycho-carnut-stalker, I'll let you know).
Here's a case of "rare does not necessarily mean desirable" (IMHO). If I were going to by a rotary, I'd prefer to have an RX-7 wrapped around it. :shades:
'38 Peugeot -- the first retractable hardtop car in history----if that matters to anybody...Pretty stiff price for a rather humble car---that interior could have come out of a WWII Jeep.
The Buick Estate wagon is pretty cool. Steep price though for an old "new" wagon.
That ARO looks like a pos. I can see it appealing only to those looking for an ARO. Otherwise the money one would spend fixing it (cat conv, brakes, wheels, seats), you might as well get a used Cherokee.
I owned a '79 Accord hatch and I've never seen bumper guards like the ones shown on the '78, nor did I see them on the options list. My guess is they are aftermarket, possibly dealer installed. In any case they look way to small to be effective.
You mean like Maxima, Altima, and can anyone think of others?
Actually I thought the Buick wagons were elegant. The Ford wagons that would hold a 4x8 in the back were basic but trucklike. They've been replaced by 10 mpg SUVs.
Nah, Maxima, Altima are meaningless abstract words...I was thinking of Coupe de Ville and Brougham and LeMans....silly horse and carriage names or illusions of grandeur that really don't work. At least they didn't call that Buick a Shooting Brake.
Of course Gran Vitara is the resurrected ghost of pretention...we might not yet be done with it. I'm not sure where Avalon is but I don't think a Toyota will get me there :P
I really like the color contrast on that '79 New Yorker. Seeing its plain white exterior, I wouldn't expect to see an interior color that shocking! I'd be tempted by that one, but I guess it wouldn't be a good idea to try driving something that's been in storage for 16 years from Ohio to Maryland!
I like that '78 Electra too, but I wish they'd mention the engine size. Going by the ~5400 lb GVWR I'd guess it has a 350. I'd imagine a 403 would have a higher GVWR, but I could be wrong.
In a twisted sort of way I like that '74 Catalina, too. I think the mock-Mercedes front-end is a bit much, but I've always thought that 2-door hardtop roofline was cool looking. Kind of a combination of the "colonade" style that GM forced on the intermediates, but still having a roll-down rear window. Still, I think the LeSabre and Delta 88 were classier rides. They tended to have nicer interiors than the Catalina, too, I guess because Pontiac wanted you to upgrade to a Bonneville or Grand Ville for your luxury.
I remember the bumper guards... I think they were a dealer-installed option.. like mudguards, etc.. but, I'm not positive about the last part.. The next generation that started in '82 had big black plastic bumpers, so that look went away..
The first generation Accords were such hot items that many dealers exploited their popularity by loading them up with expensive (mandatory) "options" of questionable value.
Note that the Accord posted above also had a luggage rack on the roof and a secondary "bump strip" running down the sides, less than a foot above the factory strip. Stupid, stupid, STUPID.
I'll bet it also came with, fabric protectant and paint sealant. I'm surprised it didn't have a vinyl top! :sick:
I was out in front of my house in suburban Santa Rosa CA (OK, there is no actual urban Santa Rosa), when down the street comes a blue-gray Mercedes 600 sedan. It (the exterior at least) was in beautiful condition, and the sound was that subdued burble of an eager engine trying to behave itself. Luckily the lawn mower wasn't running, because my tongue was on the lawn. I have no idea where the car came from, or why it was there, but it sure did class the place up for a couple of moments as it want by.
2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])
Hmmm....they aren't supposed to "burble" at all. I wonder if (oh, horror) someone put an American V8 in there--because when they blow, it's $16K for a rebuild, at least.
It was the earlier one; the one that donated its engine to the 300SEL 6.3. If you saw 'Witches of Eastwick', Jack Nicholson drove one.
Oh, and Shifty. The word 'burble' may have been somewhat fanciful. It was not being silent, but that could have been a worn muffler. I hope so, because I wouldn't be able to sleep at night thinking that someone would put a Chevy engine in it.
2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])
There used to be a 600 in a street near London Zoo, the saloon version, so only about 19foot long, not the stretched Pullman, it seemed to be in everyday use, grey colour, and a bit battered, but I haven't seen it for a couple of years. Still see the odd Pullman, though - one or two still in use in the embassy areas etc...
The one I saw was definitely the sedan. I don't know if they came in more than 2 configurations. Was there a short wheelbase and a long wheelbase pullman in addition to the sedan?
2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])
Comments
Today:
Now I'm not that good at identifying muscle cars, so you guys can help me out on this one.
It was green, it was two door, and it was a Mopar. It had some kind of Superbee sticker on the rear quarter panel, and on the hood, and had dual hood scoops.
Actually it looked like this, and it looked like an original green color, unrestored. It appeared to be in condition "4" according to my American Car restoration index.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
The top line Dodge musclecar that year was the Coronet R/T, which, IIRC, came with a 440 standard, and did not offer the 2-door post body style.
Values on a Super Bee can vary wildly....depends what's under the hood...a 383 automatic, not so much $$ at all...a 440 w/ optional 390HP could fetch about $50K-$60K for a nicely restored one.
That car as it sits, if it's a 383 auto, is less than $5,000 certainly.
His quote: This car is an RT--it has a 440 engine with 4-speed, a Holley Street Dominator intake manifold, Hooker exhaust headers, aftermarket clutch, glass pack mufflers, and bigger tires and wheels. Otherwise mostly stock. It run pretty strong and sounds great.
I'd guess high $20Ks should get the job done.
Personally, I'd rather have a "driver" than an all-original, show quality car that I would be afraid to take to the grocery store. But then, I'm into practicality. :shades:
james
Neat looking car. For some reason I prefer the "aged" ones to the trailer queen restored types.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])
If you could find a date-correct (for your chassis) motor, with a motor # also from that year car, chances are you'd get away with it. And since you already had date-correct manifolds, differential, transmission etc from the original car, no one would be the wiser.
This is why, ultimately, the ace of spades in the often silly game of "matching numbers" is a factory build sheet with the original engine # on it.
Of course, now they are counterfeiting build sheets, complete with instant "aging", so beware...the waters are filled with sharks as you swim from island to island. Stay inside the ropes or hire a lifeguard.
The model line up expanded to include the Charger R/T, equipped like the Coronet R/T - it came with a 440 Magnum, heavy duty suspension and brakes, and the bulletproof Torqueflite 727 3 speed auto with a 4 speed manual optional. The rear bumblebee stripes were a deletable option. Hemi sales went up to 467, still quite small.
http://www.allpar.com/model/charger.html
james
So correct, not a "clone". Should be called a NOM car (non-original motor). Not as big a hit on value, but still you gotta figure $10k discount at least. Kinda depends on what else was modified beyond ability to "make it right" and how the other date codes work out.
As I said earlier, he restored it for fun, not as a labor of love. Certainly to be correct, you would have to put a vinyl top on it.
james
We saw it during a Honda dealer's rally.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
This was a real beater... The front right fender was a different color than the rest of the car.. muffler was blown out, etc, etc...
But, as it went by, I noticed the "24V" badge on the fender... Let's see.. 5-cylinders... 24 valves.. Seems like that should divide evenly... hmmm..
Turns out... they had replaced the fender with one from a Taurus!! And.. it looked like they used a mallet to make it fit..
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When I lived in CA, a coworker leased a new Vigor not long after they came out - must've been '92 or so. I remember it being a real nice looking car - much nicer than the Accord at the time, even though Acura simply streched the Accord to make the Vigor. The inside was quite nice, too, IIRC.
Now, they are just 10-15 year old used cars.
The car had an MSRP of $29K and our lease payment was $312/mo.+ tax..
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It was in a lot better shape than this one
I've Googled and looked on Ebay, Craigslist, and Autotrader with very little success. The pictures I've found have been mostly beaters. I guess the majority of 23 year old Accords have gone to That Great Junkyard in the Sky.
But the car I saw last night looked perfect: same dark grey metallic paint (clean & shiney), original wheelcovers, it even had the chrome luggage rack on the trunk lid that I thought looked kinda cool, until the first time I washed it and realized what a PITA it was.
If I had my camera with me, I would have chased the driver down and asked for a photo-op. (If I get arrested for being a psycho-carnut-stalker, I'll let you know).
james
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/9725101104_W0QQitemZ250097339978QQcategoryZ6316QQ- ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
james
"Collectors SUV"...right
Great parts car for something nobody has
More cool stuff for progressive Canada, not so much for stagnant USA
If art deco is your thing, you won't get much better than this
All of these freakshows end up on ebay
An early Accord with those bumper things I was talking about
Lemko...
Andre...
A little steep
And its brother
Nice fintail, but it's not really an "S"
""very beatuiful and rare"...so they say
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
That ARO looks like a pos. I can see it appealing only to those looking for an ARO. Otherwise the money one would spend fixing it (cat conv, brakes, wheels, seats), you might as well get a used Cherokee.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
"Fetch the horses and the dogs, Chumley....oh, and bring 'round the Buick...."
gotta love those cars parked in the dining room.
that wouldn't fly a my house. :sick:
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
You mean like Maxima, Altima, and can anyone think of others?
Actually I thought the Buick wagons were elegant. The Ford wagons that would hold a 4x8 in the back were basic but trucklike. They've been replaced by 10 mpg SUVs.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Of course Gran Vitara is the resurrected ghost of pretention...we might not yet be done with it. I'm not sure where Avalon is but I don't think a Toyota will get me there :P
What is a Vitara and why are there Grand ones?
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
I like that '78 Electra too, but I wish they'd mention the engine size. Going by the ~5400 lb GVWR I'd guess it has a 350. I'd imagine a 403 would have a higher GVWR, but I could be wrong.
In a twisted sort of way I like that '74 Catalina, too. I think the mock-Mercedes front-end is a bit much, but I've always thought that 2-door hardtop roofline was cool looking. Kind of a combination of the "colonade" style that GM forced on the intermediates, but still having a roll-down rear window. Still, I think the LeSabre and Delta 88 were classier rides. They tended to have nicer interiors than the Catalina, too, I guess because Pontiac wanted you to upgrade to a Bonneville or Grand Ville for your luxury.
color not quite the same
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Note that the Accord posted above also had a luggage rack on the roof and a secondary "bump strip" running down the sides, less than a foot above the factory strip. Stupid, stupid, STUPID.
I'll bet it also came with, fabric protectant and paint sealant. I'm surprised it didn't have a vinyl top! :sick:
james
2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])
White w/red leather.. has the removeable hardtop... Looks really good... asking $8K..
I'm guessing it would take about $3K/yr in maintenance?
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As Shifty said, that engine shouldn't burble so much, but I am sure many have been modified.
Oh, and Shifty. The word 'burble' may have been somewhat fanciful. It was not being silent, but that could have been a worn muffler. I hope so, because I wouldn't be able to sleep at night thinking that someone would put a Chevy engine in it.
2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])
2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])