I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

boomchek

A Morris Minor parked at IKEA, white in color.

Today:

Now I'm not that good at identifying muscle cars, so you guys can help me out on this one.

It was green, it was two door, and it was a Mopar. It had some kind of Superbee sticker on the rear quarter panel, and on the hood, and had dual hood scoops.

Actually it looked like this, and it looked like an original green color, unrestored. It appeared to be in condition "4" according to my American Car restoration index.

andre1969

Well, that car pictured above is a '69 Dodge Coronet Superbee, a musclecar for people on a budget. They came with a 383 standard, although you could get a 440 or a Hemi. They were available as a 2-door post, like the one pictured above, a 2-door hardtop, or a convertible.

The top line Dodge musclecar that year was the Coronet R/T, which, IIRC, came with a 440 standard, and did not offer the 2-door post body style.

Mr_Shiftright

#4 if it's running, probably a 5 if it isn't.

Values on a Super Bee can vary wildly....depends what's under the hood...a 383 automatic, not so much $$ at all...a 440 w/ optional 390HP could fetch about $50K-$60K for a nicely restored one.

That car as it sits, if it's a 383 auto, is less than $5,000 certainly.

oregonboy

1968 R/T, 440 (non-match), I'd guess a nice "driver's" restoration... he has money, but did it for fun, not as a labor of love or an investment. Pretty car (I'll bet it originally had a vinyl roof... most did)

His quote: This car is an RT--it has a 440 engine with 4-speed, a Holley Street Dominator intake manifold, Hooker exhaust headers, aftermarket clutch, glass pack mufflers, and bigger tires and wheels. Otherwise mostly stock. It run pretty strong and sounds great.

See more Car Pictures at CarSpace.com">

See more Car Pictures at CarSpace.com">

Mr_Shiftright

Hard to price clones. A real one with full authentication would be worth maybe $50,000 if it were super-sharp full restoration.

I'd guess high $20Ks should get the job done.

oregonboy

Do the non-matching #s make it a clone? It did start life as an R/T. Of course it's been repainted and I expect that the stripes & decals are reproductions.

Personally, I'd rather have a "driver" than an all-original, show quality car that I would be afraid to take to the grocery store. But then, I'm into practicality. :shades:

james

Mr_Shiftright

Well it's a "440 clone", technically speaking, not an R/T clone. But since the value difference between a 383 and 440 R/T is vast, one could say that the "clone factor" is considerable.

boomchek

Now that you mention it, it was a 383, I saw the little 383 badges on the hood scoops.

Neat looking car. For some reason I prefer the "aged" ones to the trailer queen restored types.

Mr_Shiftright

Me, too. A trailer queen 60s Mopar is kind of hilarious, considering how they were originally slammed together by blind men...not in their wildest dreams could Detroit put together a car the way some of these modern restorers have done.

bhill2

OK, I have a question. I know if the car came with a 383 and is a "440 clone" by the substitution of the larger engine, it is not going to be near the value of an original 440. But if the car originally came with a 440, but someone blew that engine up and it had to be replaced, wouldn't it still have non-matching numbers? Or are the numbers considered matching if the replacement is exactly the same specifications as the original?

Mr_Shiftright

There really aren't "matching numbers" in terms of VIN # to Motor #, so "matching numbers" in a 60s Mopar would mean correct date codes and correct casting numbers on all the parts.

If you could find a date-correct (for your chassis) motor, with a motor # also from that year car, chances are you'd get away with it. And since you already had date-correct manifolds, differential, transmission etc from the original car, no one would be the wiser.

This is why, ultimately, the ace of spades in the often silly game of "matching numbers" is a factory build sheet with the original engine # on it.

Of course, now they are counterfeiting build sheets, complete with instant "aging", so beware...the waters are filled with sharks as you swim from island to island. Stay inside the ropes or hire a lifeguard.

oregonboy

Not a clone then. The 440 was the standard engine in a 1968 Charger R/T. The hemi was the only other choice. Interestingly, a 3-spd auto was standard and the 4-spd manual was optional... at least according to:

The model line up expanded to include the Charger R/T, equipped like the Coronet R/T - it came with a 440 Magnum, heavy duty suspension and brakes, and the bulletproof Torqueflite 727 3 speed auto with a 4 speed manual optional. The rear bumblebee stripes were a deletable option. Hemi sales went up to 467, still quite small.

http://www.allpar.com/model/charger.html

james

Mr_Shiftright

Oh that's right. I was thinking of the Super Bee with the 383.

So correct, not a "clone". Should be called a NOM car (non-original motor). Not as big a hit on value, but still you gotta figure $10k discount at least. Kinda depends on what else was modified beyond ability to "make it right" and how the other date codes work out.

oregonboy

Yeah, I really don't know what else is non-original. I have never seen it "in the flesh", as he lives in bluegrass country and I'm a left-coaster.

As I said earlier, he restored it for fun, not as a labor of love. Certainly to be correct, you would have to put a vinyl top on it.

james

lemko

...beige colored 1971 AMC Ambassador sedan. I saw a show on E! where there was a clip of Robert DeNiro in an Ambassador television commercial.

boomchek

John Travolta did a Honda motorcycle commercial before he was in Grease.

We saw it during a Honda dealer's rally.

chuck1959

I didn't realize at the array of cars the Ewings owned. Some had Mercedes, Lincolns, Fords, VW Cabriolet (Miss Ellie's). At one time a Massarati Bi turbo (Bobby) and J.R.s Caddy Allante. Like he would trade his Mercedes for that! LOL In fact I think IIRC there some sort of deal from Cadillac for him to have be seen in that when they first came out instead of his Mercedes. Anyway it was neat to see 80's metal.

kyfdx

While that isn't really an obscure sighting, this was..

This was a real beater... The front right fender was a different color than the rest of the car.. muffler was blown out, etc, etc...

But, as it went by, I noticed the "24V" badge on the fender... Let's see.. 5-cylinders... 24 valves.. Seems like that should divide evenly... hmmm..

Turns out... they had replaced the fender with one from a Taurus!! And.. it looked like they used a mallet to make it fit..

michaellno

Oh, how the mighty have fallen.

When I lived in CA, a coworker leased a new Vigor not long after they came out - must've been '92 or so. I remember it being a real nice looking car - much nicer than the Accord at the time, even though Acura simply streched the Accord to make the Vigor. The inside was quite nice, too, IIRC.

Now, they are just 10-15 year old used cars.

kyfdx

My wife leased a Vigor in 1994.. The residual was 50% for 3yr/45K.. I don't know the money factor, but the finance portion of the lease payment was a whopping $7/mo..

The car had an MSRP of $29K and our lease payment was $312/mo.+ tax..

texases

Saw one drive by as I was eating lunch - didn't know they made them (real targa, removable panel over front seats, fold down rear top, left with a targa bar, just like a 911!). Turns out Griffith hooked up with Toyota and sold about 2000 through dealers.

It was in a lot better shape than this one

oregonboy

On my way home from work last night, I caught a glimpse of a pristine 1984/5 Honda Accord 4-dr. What makes this (even remotely) significant is that I have been searching for a decent picture of a 1984 Accord for Mycarspace photo album of "previous cars owned".

I've Googled and looked on Ebay, Craigslist, and Autotrader with very little success. The pictures I've found have been mostly beaters. I guess the majority of 23 year old Accords have gone to That Great Junkyard in the Sky.

But the car I saw last night looked perfect: same dark grey metallic paint (clean & shiney), original wheelcovers, it even had the chrome luggage rack on the trunk lid that I thought looked kinda cool, until the first time I washed it and realized what a PITA it was.

If I had my camera with me, I would have chased the driver down and asked for a photo-op. (If I get arrested for being a psycho-carnut-stalker, I'll let you know).

james

oregonboy

Here's a case of "rare does not necessarily mean desirable" (IMHO). If I were going to by a rotary, I'd prefer to have an RX-7 wrapped around it. :shades:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/9725101104_W0QQitemZ250097339978QQcategoryZ6316QQ- ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

james

fintail

I think this is a repeat...I have to ask....why?

"Collectors SUV"...right

Great parts car for something nobody has

More cool stuff for progressive Canada, not so much for stagnant USA

If art deco is your thing, you won't get much better than this

All of these freakshows end up on ebay

An early Accord with those bumper things I was talking about

Lemko...

Andre...

A little steep

And its brother

Nice fintail, but it's not really an "S"

""very beatuiful and rare"...so they say

boomchek

I like the rotary RX3 wheels. Designed to look at the rotary engine's rotors.

Mr_Shiftright

'38 Peugeot -- the first retractable hardtop car in history----if that matters to anybody...Pretty stiff price for a rather humble car---that interior could have come out of a WWII Jeep.

boomchek

The Buick Estate wagon is pretty cool. Steep price though for an old "new" wagon.

That ARO looks like a pos. I can see it appealing only to those looking for an ARO. Otherwise the money one would spend fixing it (cat conv, brakes, wheels, seats), you might as well get a used Cherokee.

Mr_Shiftright

Did '72 Buick owners really have "estates"?

"Fetch the horses and the dogs, Chumley....oh, and bring 'round the Buick...."

explorerx4

the 'ducumentation' for the buick wagon looks odd. it states 4dr, 6 passenger, for what is clearly a wagon, 8 passenger.

gotta love those cars parked in the dining room.
that wouldn't fly a my house. :sick:

bumpy

I saw a C240 with manual door locks yesterday.

imidazol97

In that era the Buick Estate wagons were an upscale addition to your home, be it estate or plat lot.

andys120

I owned a '79 Accord hatch and I've never seen bumper guards like the ones shown on the '78, nor did I see them on the options list. My guess is they are aftermarket, possibly dealer installed. In any case they look way to small to be effective.

Mr_Shiftright

That was the era of pretentious car names, thankfully over.

imidazol97

>pretentious car names,

You mean like Maxima, Altima, and can anyone think of others?

Actually I thought the Buick wagons were elegant. The Ford wagons that would hold a 4x8 in the back were basic but trucklike. They've been replaced by 10 mpg SUVs.

Mr_Shiftright

Nah, Maxima, Altima are meaningless abstract words...I was thinking of Coupe de Ville and Brougham and LeMans....silly horse and carriage names or illusions of grandeur that really don't work. At least they didn't call that Buick a Shooting Brake.

Of course Gran Vitara is the resurrected ghost of pretention...we might not yet be done with it. I'm not sure where Avalon is but I don't think a Toyota will get me there :P

What is a Vitara and why are there Grand ones?

andys120

Wasn't the Grand Vitara a high official of the Ottoman Empire?

Mr_Shiftright

That would be a great name for an obscure classic car! The ill-fated V-12 Vitara from Italy....

andre1969

I really like the color contrast on that '79 New Yorker. Seeing its plain white exterior, I wouldn't expect to see an interior color that shocking! I'd be tempted by that one, but I guess it wouldn't be a good idea to try driving something that's been in storage for 16 years from Ohio to Maryland!

I like that '78 Electra too, but I wish they'd mention the engine size. Going by the ~5400 lb GVWR I'd guess it has a 350. I'd imagine a 403 would have a higher GVWR, but I could be wrong.

In a twisted sort of way I like that '74 Catalina, too. I think the mock-Mercedes front-end is a bit much, but I've always thought that 2-door hardtop roofline was cool looking. Kind of a combination of the "colonade" style that GM forced on the intermediates, but still having a roll-down rear window. Still, I think the LeSabre and Delta 88 were classier rides. They tended to have nicer interiors than the Catalina, too, I guess because Pontiac wanted you to upgrade to a Bonneville or Grand Ville for your luxury.

fintail

Funny thing, and that's the item on the car that sticks in my car the most.

explorerx4

but it was a desoto, kind of looked like this:
color not quite the same

kyfdx

I remember the bumper guards... I think they were a dealer-installed option.. like mudguards, etc.. but, I'm not positive about the last part.. The next generation that started in '82 had big black plastic bumpers, so that look went away..

oregonboy

The first generation Accords were such hot items that many dealers exploited their popularity by loading them up with expensive (mandatory) "options" of questionable value.

Note that the Accord posted above also had a luggage rack on the roof and a secondary "bump strip" running down the sides, less than a foot above the factory strip. Stupid, stupid, STUPID.

I'll bet it also came with, fabric protectant and paint sealant. I'm surprised it didn't have a vinyl top! :sick:

james

bhill2

I was out in front of my house in suburban Santa Rosa CA (OK, there is no actual urban Santa Rosa), when down the street comes a blue-gray Mercedes 600 sedan. It (the exterior at least) was in beautiful condition, and the sound was that subdued burble of an eager engine trying to behave itself. Luckily the lawn mower wasn't running, because my tongue was on the lawn. I have no idea where the car came from, or why it was there, but it sure did class the place up for a couple of moments as it want by.

kyfdx

'79 Mercedes 450SL..

White w/red leather.. has the removeable hardtop... Looks really good... asking $8K..

I'm guessing it would take about $3K/yr in maintenance?

Mr_Shiftright

Hmmm....they aren't supposed to "burble" at all. I wonder if (oh, horror) someone put an American V8 in there--because when they blow, it's $16K for a rebuild, at least.

fintail

Was it a W100 600 or a later S-class 600?

As Shifty said, that engine shouldn't burble so much, but I am sure many have been modified.

Mr_Shiftright

I saw a 600 with a Chevrolet water pump machined to fit. It looked great actually....at $1,500+ a pop for water pumps, it's worth a try.

bhill2

It was the earlier one; the one that donated its engine to the 300SEL 6.3. If you saw 'Witches of Eastwick', Jack Nicholson drove one.

Oh, and Shifty. The word 'burble' may have been somewhat fanciful. It was not being silent, but that could have been a worn muffler. I hope so, because I wouldn't be able to sleep at night thinking that someone would put a Chevy engine in it.

magnette

There used to be a 600 in a street near London Zoo, the saloon version, so only about 19foot long, not the stretched Pullman, it seemed to be in everyday use, grey colour, and a bit battered, but I haven't seen it for a couple of years. Still see the odd Pullman, though - one or two still in use in the embassy areas etc...

bhill2

The one I saw was definitely the sedan. I don't know if they came in more than 2 configurations. Was there a short wheelbase and a long wheelbase pullman in addition to the sedan?