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I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

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  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    A Biturbo Convertible on a flat bed, big surprise there, being towed behind a dodge diesel pickup.

    A world war II Era indian motor cycle all restored and on the road near my house.

    Looked a lot like this one but in tip top shape. image
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    That's way earlier than WWII. More like World War I.

    WWII military bikes were called "Scouts". That's the bike shown in the movie "The World's Fastest Indian", although the stock Scout is kind of a doggy bike to say the least.

    What you have there in the picture is a "Power Plus Twin" or something close to it. I'd guess 1918 or so.

    The really valuable Indians are the Chiefs.

    Indian Scouts are fun, what with a clutch pedal on the left and an actual gearshift knob on the side of the tank...aka...suicide shifter....can you imagine taking your right hand off the bars on one of these crates in order to ram into a lower gear while turning off a highway AND stepping on the clutch pedal with your left foot?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,617
    I'm guessing early '50s.. restored.. Green with a white roof..

    Early '70s Duster... In crappy shape.. First one I've seen in a long, long time that wasn't purposely fixed up..

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  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    International Scout
    I saw the front in a parking lot but didn't get to check out the rear.
    I have no idea what specific year. Can't find a scout website showing various years to compare grills.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,670
    I saw an early Z car, couldn't tell it it was a 240 or 260Z, probably a 240Z as I think the 260s had the heavier bumpers. This car was a slightly faded black and wore aftermarket wheels. It was parked with a pristine 1990s Civic Si Hatchback with perfect red paint.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Well it didn't look exactly like that bike in the picture. That was just the first one google gave me that was the same color and an indian.

    The bike I saw looked a little larger and a little more modern. It looked more like a motorcyle then a bicycle which is why I figured it was 1940s or so era.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    This is kind of a fun article about what it's like to drive one of these old things....

    Trying to Stay Alive on a '46 Indian
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    I spotted a ratty looking '55 Pontiac 2-door sedan sitting outside a junkyard entrance. It was a pale yellow, and looked salvagable. If somebody really wants it, that is!

    About 10 minutes later, at a repair shop on the median of Route 5, I saw a '49-52 Chevy coupe. It was also a pale yellow, and looked like it was undergoing a restoration. Looked like it was almost finished, except for a missing grille and bumper.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Today I saw a red 59 Coupe deVille, a very nice 64 T-Bird driven by a little old lady, and a couple of Euro model 126s, oddly enough a SEC with Euro spec plastic hubcaps.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,617
    Too weird..

    Isuzu had a great commercial for them.. Anyone remember it?

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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    I don't remember the commercial, but I do remember the Vehicross. It really was an odd looking thing, but I thought they were kinda interesting. Had a futuristic, science-fiction movie-prop look to them.
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Member Posts: 1,696
    Actually, they did use the Vehicross in a Sci-Fi movie. I think it was the Mars movie a few years back with Gary Scenees (no I did not spell that right). Maybe "Mission to Mars" or something like that?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,617
    Driver is ripping along in a top-speed record type of car... VehiCross pulls up along side of him.. Passenger points towards the back of the car and mouths, "You left your wallet on the trunk"... then, the VehiCross pulls away, leaving the driver of the car with an incredulous look on his face...

    Almost as good as Joe Isuzu.. :)

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,617
    Gary Sinise..

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  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    The Vehicross is a pretty neat vehicle and actually fairly capable off road. There is one of them in my four wheeling club and it does very well with just upgraded wheels and tires.
  • chuck1959chuck1959 Member Posts: 654
    super clean 1970 Ford LTD. It really looked like it just came of the showroom floor.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...my local mechanic whose shop is only about a block 1/2 from my house has a black 1966 Cadillac Fleetwood 75 limousine for sale. It only has 47K miles on it. It's not in perfect shape. The rear bumper definately would need to be rechromed and the paint is shiny, but not really glossy like I would prefer. I don't know if a good polishing, etc. would bring out the shine or if it should simply be repainted. He wants just a little over $3K for it just to get it off his lot. I'd run right over there and buy it, but I have no place for such a huge car. It wouldn't even make the turn into my driveway, (which is behind my house like so many NE Philly homes) it is so long. Too bad I don't have a place to store it.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Bingo, lemko---this is why old limos are so cheap...no one can spare the room for them.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    There was a guy at a local car show here in Maryland last year that had one of those Fleetwood 75's, around a '66 I guess. He was running into problems because it wouldn't fit into his garage, so he tried to park it out on the street. But then his homeowner's association got on him about it because it had historic plates on it! So to appease them, he had to get regular tags for it.

    That kind of crap makes me glad I don't live in an HOA. I used to live in a condo, and the association could be pretty bad, but I don't think they'd be THAT anal. They did let a 1990 or so Toyota Celica sit in a parking space for about 5 months with dead tags though. I think when its second tire went flat, they finally had it towed.

    I think an old limo, or hearse would be cool, but I doubt if one would fit in my garage, either. At least, it would be close. I measured once, and from the far wall of my garage to the door I have 470 inches. My '76 LeMans, the smallest car in the garage, is 208" long. So that would leave me with about 262" to play with. Less, actually, unless I was okay with the cars touching each other, the far wall, and scraping the door!

    **Edit: I just looked it up, and a '66 Fleetwood 75 is "only" 244.5" long. So I COULD get one to fit if I really wanted to!
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,107
    Dead ringer for this one, except with a great red paint job
    image
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Would you be interested in me renting some space from you should I be reckless and self-destructive enough to buy this limo? This car would be really awesome at the GM Nationals at Carlilse this year. My 1989 Brougham just barely fits in my garage, so a '66 limo is definately not going to fit.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Unfortunately Lemko, I'm just about out of space myself. It's only a matter of time before my uncle and grandmother conspire to make me get my DeSoto out of Grandma's garage, and into my own, and that'll fill it up. :-(

    Looking back, I really wish I had gone with a 40x27 garage instead of 40x24. That would've allowed me to squeeze 3 cars in the back, and then pull two in the front. Although once you factor in for walls, that 27 feet would be down to 25'8", which would be a bit of a tight squeeze.

    Actually, as it is, one of my old cars is going to end up having to sit outside. I'm probably going to buy that '79 New Yorker we saw at that gas station that night after Spring Carlisle. It seems to be in much better shape than mine (no rust, only 62,000 miles, garaged most of its life), so that's probably going to put my 79 5th Ave out in the weather.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    >really wish I had gone with a 40x27 garage

    Can you add on to the garage?

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Can you add on to the garage?

    legally, no. I might be able to get away with a lean-to carport off the back, but I'm close to the maximum size. There's an ordinance in my neighborhood where no secondary buildings can be larger than the primary structure. My house is about 1500 square feet, but because of its design they consider it a 1 1/2 story, and just count half of its square footage upstairs. I also have one room that they consider a porch and not living space (although it's totally enclosed and has electricity). So they have my house listed at 1106 square feet.

    The garage, at 40x24, is 960 square feet. If I had gone with a 40x27, that would've been 1080 square feet. 40x28 would've been 1120, and just over the threshold. The company that built my garage mass-produces these things though, and 40x24 is a common size. So is 40x30. I have a feeling that a 40x27 would've required a lot of custom cutting, and might've actually cost more than a 40x30.

    Now, I could add on to the house and make it larger, which would then let me add on to the garage. But that would be pretty expensive. I could also build a second garage, but I dunno if I'm ready to go through the hassle of that yet.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    or you could make your house your garage and your garage your house!
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Member Posts: 1,696
    What if you air condition/climate control it? Would that make it count towards the main dwelling square footage? I know in some areas it will.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,107
    At that level of cost, how about putting in some of those car stacking lifts?
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,107
    Please get this guy out of here, it's just advertising.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...black 1960 Buick Invicta four door hardtop next to a gas station.
  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Member Posts: 1,711
    So are you really going to buy that '79 New Yorker that you saw at the gas station? It sounds like the car is a true gem- right up your alley. Are you planning to get rid of one of your classics (i.e. the Catalina or Dart) to make room for the NYer?
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    So are you really going to buy that '79 New Yorker that you saw at the gas station? It sounds like the car is a true gem- right up your alley. Are you planning to get rid of one of your classics (i.e. the Catalina or Dart) to make room for the NYer?

    Yeah, hopefully I'm going to get that New Yorker. I was going to get it last Saturday, but the owner had to work. So we're going to try again for this Saturday. The owner isn't really in that big of a hurry to get rid of it. And I think he kinda likes the fact that the car is going to go to somebody who would really appreciate it, instead of ending up in a demolition derby or getting parted out. One of his friends wanted to buy it for the engine/tranny and rear-end, to put into a hotrod. Now, why you would want to use a 150 hp Lean Burn 360 and a 2.45:1 rear end for a hotrod, I have no idea!

    I'm not planning on getting rid of anything yet, although I probbaly should. :blush:
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Are we talking about that same New Yorker we saw after the Spring Carlisle show?

    A 150 hp Lean Burn 360 and a 2.45:1 rear end for a hotrod? Maybe he just wants a lukewarm rod?
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Yup, that's the same one, Lemko! The current owner's father bought the car new, and garaged it most of its life. Unfortunately, the father passed away, and the house (with garage) got sold. The current owner had it down at that gas station for its yearly inspection, but was at odds with what to do with it, long term.

    After we drove by it that night, Grbeck called the station a few days later, and found out that the owner was thinking about selling it. So then I called the gas station myself, got the owner's number, and we're just trying to coordinate a date to do it. I think in Pennsylvania, you have to go to a notary public to transfer a title. Or at least, somehow, you have to get a notary involved. I remember having to do it with the DeSoto, which came out of York, but have never had to deal with a notary when it came to any other car I ever bought.

    As for problems with the car, the owner said the automatic choke gets cranky, but seems to work itself out when the weather's warmer, or the car gets driven more often. He only put about 15 miles on it in the past year! Also, while the body is rust-free, one of the bumpers has peeling chrome. That's a common problem with 1979 R-bodies, because that year they used aluminum bumpers, and the chrome plating wouldn't stick very well. It supposedly saved 55 pounds over using steel (also makes me wonder how sturdy those bumpers really are if they shed 55 pounds!), but it wasn't worth it, so for 1980-81, they went to steel. Also, he said that the cloth on one of the back doors is shot. The way it was parked in the garage, the sun would beat down through one of the windows and caused just that one area to deteriorate over the years.

    Yeah, I can't imagine what you'd do with a 360 lean burn and a 2:45 rear, either. But I guess stranger things have happened. My Dad has a coworker who built up a hotrod. He rebuilt an engine to put in it, as a learning experience. But, while most people would use a Chevy 350 in a hotrod, this guy just used a 305. I always thought the only real purpose of a 305 was to set up your car so that a 350 would easily bolt in when said 305 finally died! :P I mean, there were some high-output 305's, like the Monte SS with 180 hp, or the Camaro IROCs with 210 or whatever, but I think most people, when rebuilding, just throw in a 350.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    The more I see those fintails the more I like them and I am not a mercedes fan at all.

    I think I remember you telling what to look for and/or avoid on the fintails too.

    You want...

    -Fuel Injected
    -Sedan
    -200 series

    You don't want...

    -Carb models
    -Coupes or Convertiables
    -300 or 100 series

    Does automatic or manual make much of a differance?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    A W111 car is the one to have, as it will be a 6cyl and will have more equipment. A maintained FI car is easiest to live with, as it needs little attention, no carbs to tune or synchronize. The carb cars aren't terrible, but they do require work. 220SE is the best bet, followed by either 220S or 230S.

    There is nothing wrong with coupes and convertibles, they just cost more, especially the open cars, and renovations are more expensive as well. A 300SE is the ultimate fintail, but that big engine does require more tuning, and you have to deal with the air suspension. The lowline cars, esp diesels, are just really slow, although they are reliable.

    Fintails had several transmission options...4 speed column shift or floor shift (floor shift is uncommon, and only on later cars), 4 speed auto, earlier ones can have a Borg-Warner auto, and early models also might have the 'Hydrak' automatic clutch. I would go for a 4 speed manual or a the 4 speed auto. The auto is a hard-shifting unit, but it is open to being selected manually, and it is very sturdy.

    What I would beware most of these cars is rust. They really can get bad. Also, it it silly to restore one, so one should find the best they can afford, and just maintain it. 5K can get a very nice example.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I spotted this lovely early 70s BMW coupe while looking out a window a couple floors up from the street today...that's why it is an odd view.

    image
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    but I found an old Road & Track from February 1973, that has a test that pitted a BMW Bavaria against a Jag XJ6 and a Mercedes Benz 280. They ended up picking the Benz as the winner, saying it was best in handling, steering, ride, braking, body structure, and HVAC system. Its worsts were driveability (it was carbureted and cranky, and sometimes took 2-3 times to start), they weren't impressed with its fuel economy, and didn't like its seatbelt system (people wore seatbelts in 1973!). They scored it 324 points out of a possible 380.

    The BMW scored a close second. They likes its engine performance, transmission, instruments/controls, visibility, and ease of entry/exit. They didn't like its ride, noise level, interior styling and materials (refreshing to hear a buff rag dis a BMW the way they do a domestic these days!), and didn't like its exterior style. They scored it 320 points.

    The Jag was rated best in quietness, driveability (it didn't stumble and surge like the Benz or BMW, and had a manual choke that could be adjusted by the driver, rather than hoping tht the crude automatic chokes of the time on the other cars did the right thing), seatbelt system, and styling. They slammed it for braking, steering, transmission, instrumentation/controls, HVAC, and rear seating. But it still scored a 307, so all three came in close. I wonder if they

    One cute comment they made basically called the Jag a pretty poseur, saying that it's "the most dignified and serene of the three if it is driven in a dignified and serene manner, as most of its deficiencies don't show up unti it is driven hard. It has a particularly strong appeal to peple who drive gently and want a maximum of beauty in their conveyance."

    0-60 times were 10.7 seconds for the BMW, 11.7 for the Jag, and 11.7 for the Benz. 100 mph came up in 31.5 (BMW), 40.9 (Jag), and 41.5 (Benz). All three had automatic transmissions. The Benz had the weakest engine (130 hp compared to 170 for the BMW and 186 for the Jag) and the poorest lb/hp ratio (25.8 versus 20.6 for the BMW, 23.0 for the Jag) so all things considered, its engine held its own pretty well.

    One thing I really think is a hoot, is the pricing. The BMW, as tested, was $7554. The Jag was $9165, and the Benz was $8931. That sounds so cheap today. For comparison, my grandparents' 72 Impala 4-door hardtop, 350, automatic, a/c (all these imports had a/c too) stickered for about $5,000. And my old condo, built in 1973, originally sold for about $16,000. So on one hand, I guess you could call these luxury cars a bargain at being less than twice the price of a mass-market Impala, or an extravagance, as costing about half as much as a residence!

    Anyway, hope y'all enjoyed that little trip down memory lane. :)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Oh, a 280S...you don't see many of those as late as 73. Or was it a plain 280? 1973 was a changeover year, so you could see three distinct cars bearing that designation.

    Was it one of these? image

    Or these? image

    Or one of these? image

    Sounds like a good article. I should scan in some of the better articles from the 1963-66 magazines I found a couple weeks ago
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    in fact, R/T even made this comment about Mercedes naming conventions...

    "Mercedes model designations can be cnofusing, even when they correspond as they normally do to the model's engine size. The new 280 is bound to create some confusion because it's closer to the old 250 than to the old 280S and 280SE."

    So is this basically what replaced the fintail? It looks about roughly the same size.

    A couple weeks ago, one of my friends gave me a whole box full of old Car & Drivers and Road & Tracks that someone in her Freecycle group gave her. I've only had a chance to glance through a few of them, but it looks like most of 'em date from about 1962 on up to the early 80's.

    One thing that's quite a shock is seeing how the cigarette ads proliferated these old rags!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Ah, so it was the W114 car, the small car. I posted one of those from local CL not long ago. They were right on explaining those designations too, 280 had previously only been used on larger cars. I think they are actually slightly smaller than the fintail, and were usually less equipped. The higher line fintails would have became the lowline S class cars.

    Sounds like you got a fun load of magazines. I love to find things like that...they don't have much value, but they are so fun to read. I am still poring over the ones I received. I just finished a good write up on a 66 Satellite with the 425hp hemi. They claim 0-60 in 5.3 in it, impressive.
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    Oh you lucky bum, I bought a bunch of old R&Ts, C&Ds, and Motor Trends from a dude who's father passed away who was subscribing to all of these rags.

    I bought the first batch, but I lost touch with him even though I wanted to buy the rest of the magazines.

    I wish I would run into someone who would give them up for free. :surprise:

    I have R&T as far back as 1974. My earliuest Motor Trend is 1973.

    What's funny in these magazines is the cig ads, ands the future cars drawings.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Yeah, I really lucked out with this snag. Honestly though, I kinda wish there were some Motortrends in there, as they tended to test drive more mainstream cars back then, the cars that the masses bought. And the kind of big boats that I tend to go for.

    I think it's really amusing to read an article where they praise a car that just came out, like a Vega, or Mustang II or Citation....something that, well, seemed like a good idea at the time! Just hadn't been out long enough to break down, get recalled, ridiculed, etc.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    R&T has certainly been proven correct. The XJ6 and Bavarian turned out to be troublesome nuisances of highly questionable reliability. But look how many 280s you still see on the road in great shape. I'm not surprised they dissed the Bavaria...it's a pretty awful car---clumsy, slow, mechanically diabolical. Not like we remember BMWs today. It's right "up there" with the 320s for BMW Bummer of the decade.

    The Mercedes was light years ahead of both those cars in the "real world" of getting from one place to another. It wasn't perfect but it was so much better engineered and of much higher quality IMO.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,617
    Hey now!! Quit bashing the 320i.. I loved that model!! ;)

    The Bavaria? Definitely a pig..

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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    R&T has certainly been proven correct. The XJ6 and Bavarian turned out to be troublesome nuisances of highly questionable reliability.

    Heck, even in the article, R&T warned about the XJ6'es "questionable" reliability!

    But look how many 280s you still see on the road in great shape.

    Might be a regional thing. I don't think I've seen one of those 280's in ages. I wouldn't know a Bavaria if I saw one...I'd probably just mistake it for an old 5-series. Interestingly, I probably see old XJ6es most often of the three! I guess sometimes being pretty does have its advantages. It makes people forgive a lot of other faults.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,107
    I often wondered why BMW had problems with getting good performance (for the $$ involved) out of the 320i right when VW was doing great things with the GTI. '83 GTI 0-60 10.6 sec, '80 320i 0-60 12.1 sec.
  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    Okay, here you go!

    clean 320i
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,617
    I have a hard time relating to the 0-60 numbers from back then, because of the horsepower wars now... But, I do remember it as an amazingly versatile 4-cylinder engine..

    I'd be interested to see the numbers from an '83 320i, to see if they tweaked it any.. My GF at the time bought a '79 320i, used, in 1984... I loved that car... her.. not so much... :)

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