I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

lemko

Holy smoke! If that 1978 Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight Regency doesn't bear a strong resemblance to the 1979 model I once owned! Same color! Same interior! No way is the engine a 6. It's either the awesome 403 V-8 or the more tepid 350. Looks like a 403 from the picture. Who was the complete and utter psycho who paid over $10K for it?

fintail

A zero feedback bidder, doubtlessly a fake

Ebay has done an especially poor job at policing the riff-raff

texases

Buried in the description "I checked 6 cyl. by mistake, it's a 403 V8".

andre1969

No way is the engine a 6. It's either the awesome 403 V-8 or the more tepid 350. Looks like a 403 from the picture.

Lemko, how can you tell the difference between a 350 and a 403? As long as it's an Olds 350, I'd think they'd look the same externally. As for differentiating the Chevy/Olds/Buick/Pontiac 350's, here are a few tricks I learned...

Buick 350: distributor up front.
Olds 350: has that long oil filler tube up front.
Pontiac 350: has what appears to be an obscenely long upper radiator hose
Chevy 350: looks smaller, visually, than the other engines. Spark plugs angled slightly down.

I'm sure there's other ways to tell them apart at a quick glance, but that's what always jumped out at me.

lemko

I recognize the air cleaner cover from both my 1979 Buick Park Avenue and Olds Ninety-Eight Regency - both of which had the 403 V-8.

andre1969

but finally, I've uploaded the pics I took at the 2007 GM Nationals in Carlisle. Enjoy!

fintail

Not much caught my eye today

Old fashioned elegance...I like how the gauges mimic the radiator shell

In another 10 years the oh-so-enlightened States will be able to get this material

Be the only one at any show

And to think, this wasn't the elaborate model

This is interesting

"Custom" - that's a way of looking at it

imidazol97

The 1958 Buick looks pretty good. Remember the atmosphere of other cars in 1958 evolving from 1955 Chev.

The Aspen pictures are bad. When will people learn a wide-angle lens distorts and when pictures are taken close the center looks larger and disproportionately large. Step back from the object. Step back from the object. Take picture.

texases

This seems to assume there could be a good picture of this Aspen :P

bumpy

Ah, the Honda Beat. Midengine convertible microcar, and supposedly the last design Soichiro Honda signed off on. Also notable for the factory ITB setup.

magnette

I like the Honda Beat - I've seen quite a few as they come here as grey imports, but they aren't common here.

The S & S hearse is fun - I've actually seen photos of one of these, in an old encyclopedia of commercial vehicles -there really can't be many of these left....

magnette

Bentley S-type convertible - broken down on the side of the road...It was one of the earlier single headlight types so S1/S2.
Ferrari Testarossa - or a good fake - early eighties.

And one for you fintail - a Mercedes-Benz Fintail in full race trim on a trailer, obviously heading for a race meeting - it had 1964 plates, but from a series they used for later imports. Because it was two lanes across from us in heavy traffic, and torrential rain, couldn't really read the chrome badge on the bootlid, but my better half says it read 300SEL. It looked like a full race version with rollcage, extinguishers, etc - there is a thriving classic saloon car championship in UK and this would have been eligible for it, I would imagine. I thought of you - all you need is the crash-helmet and off you go...

Mr_Shiftright

The survival rate for hearses is actually quite amazing....not unusual, if you think about it...you know...(gulp)...lots of short trips.

fintail

Very interesting. Fintails were extremely competitive in period competition, and I am sure they are very competitive in vintage racing today. I have thought of making my car into some kind of racer, but it is such a sound unmessed with original that I can't justify doing this. The car you say might have been a 300SE - those had the big M189 engine and attained many victories in 1962-5. I don't know if many LWB cars were raced though, but I suppose if one had one and didn't want to restore it (not a good idea unless you are wealthy), they could make their own racer.

fiatlux1969

The FIAT Dinos were not the end, but rather the beginning for the Dino motor. Ferrari contracted with FIAT for the production of all Dino engines, including those used in Ferrari's Dino (not at that time badged as a Ferrari), as well as the Lancia Stratos and the FIAT Dino Coupe and Spider. Conjecture was that FIAT's economies of scale allowed Ferrari to field a price competitor to the Porsche 911. They still came in significantly more expensive, if memory serves, which is why they went from an aluminum to an iron block with the intro of the 246. BTW, I use all caps for FIAT because it is an acronym, not for Fix It Again Tony, but for Fabbrica Italiana Automobili Torino.

Mr_Shiftright

The 206 motor would make an excellent boat anchor.

fiatlux1969

Not at all: it's too light! Seriously, though, I have experienced several 206-engined cars that ran well and reliably due to devoted maintenance. The sound at the 8000rpm red line is alone worth the preventive work.

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah but the newer motor is so much better. I mean, you have to suffer enough to keep a Ferrari in good fettle, why compound the effort? I agree though nothing like all those cams and wheels spinning behind your right ear.

fiatlux1969

I agree that the iron-blocked engine is not as sensitive to overheating, has more power and torque, but is heavier and not as pretty as the 206. So the equation becomes: more punch vs a lower polar moment. As an Abarth aficionado, I have already made my choice. What, exactly, is torque? I have heard of it, but not experienced it personally.

fintail

Good sighting today: 46-48 Chrysler Town and Country convertible. What a beauty. It was a medium green with wide whites and a white top. The wood looked fantastic, yet the car did not look overdone. A stunner.

Mr_Shiftright

Hahaha...well maybe you should buy an Alfa Maratona with that little glass window where you can look at the engine while driving....Abarths are very cool...always wanted a double bubble....

fiatlux1969

I have owned one genuine Abarth (an OT1000 Spider), a Berlina Corsa replica set up for autocross, and an early '68 (covered headlamp) 850 Spider with a massaged Abarth 1050 engine. The 1050 was the biggest engine of the lot, although the 9500 rpm red line of the Berlina Corsa made up to some degree for the modest (agoraphobic?) displacement. I'd love a double-bubble. A friend has an OT2000 replica that does not lack for power and even has tons of torque. In the spirit of this forum, spotting any Abarth (apart from at a concorso or vintage race day) is enough to make my month.

magnette

I wasn't sure about the chrome badge, and as far as I could tell it was a normal wheelbase four-door saloon, but with serious race modification. It could have been a period modified one - they may even have made lightweight ones (?) but I would concur with you that it would be a shame to spoil an untouched car like yours to make a racer. There must be plenty of these that were stripped and raced in period, many of which presumably survive in some form particularly in Europe, so it is likely that what I saw was one of those - although I wish I had a chance to see it more clearly - we were in near-monsoon conditions at the time, and the road was very busy..

fintail

Do you recall if it had the double bumpers, or single bumpers? An authentic competition look would have had single bumpers, to save just a little weight maybe. I am not sure about lightweight cars, fintails aren't terribly heavy as it is. What color was it, anyway?

Yes, many were raced, and many today are in a condition where they are beyond redemption for a normal road car, so they can be turned into a racer. Just make sure it is an injected model! As far as I know, all competition cars were 220SE and 300SE. I know Mercedes itself owns at least one original competition fintail, a blue and white 300SE. From the first time these cars were raced, they were successful - fintails placed 1-2-3 at Monte Carlo in 1960, a good omen, and I don't know if that has ever been topped.

magnette

Can't remember the bumpers - if it had any at all - but it was light grey with a mid-blue roof, I think... It looked serious, at any rate...
Re the Monte Carlo, I think Mini Coopers (real ones ) did the 1/2/3 at least once, but I am not sure.

british_rover

I thought they did too but not according to this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rallye_Automobile_Monte_Carlo#1950-1972

Mr_Shiftright

Nope...Porsche almost did a 1-2-3 except for those pesky Coopers! Then of course the Lancia Stratos did a sweep in the 70s. The Stratos was a truly awesome Rally car. Benz only won once I guess postwar, in that 1-2-3 finish in 1960. Lancia did a 1-2-3 again in the 80s and Audi did a 1-2-3 as well. Now of course we see the Japanese dominating or at least always contending.

seminole_kev

I still find it somewhat hard to believe that one of these big Jags won the Monte in 1956

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah but look who was DRIVING!

These cars are incompetent, unreliable clumsy oafs, I really dislike them (as if you couldn't tell). Best thing to do is strip them for parts for a XK150. A bad Jaguar imitation of a budget Rolls?

fintail

Funny to see the heavy looking fintails mentioned along with all those sportier cars.

I haven't seen any vintage sedan racing like that in NA...I know there are vintage sportscar events, but I don't think anything a fintail would really fit in with.

fintail

This afternoon I spotted a mint looking 59 Buick 4 door hardtop, the flat-top style. It was sky blue and white, with period correct tires.

Then not more than couple minutes later I saw a late model Bentley Flying Spur in an unusual very similar color.

Mr_Shiftright

Well you may remember that last year a fintail ran in the 24 Hours of Lemons Endurance Race (www.24hoursoflemons.com) AND finished, and this year a 300D ran on Canola oil for the 24 hours and also finished. But then, so did a Cadillac hearse....

fintail

Oh yeah, it was like a lowline 190/200 fintail as well, I believe. Good cars, what can I say.

fintail

Oh, I know why I saw that Buick yesterday,...apparently there is a Buick Nationals show in my area, and the hotel they are using is about half a mile from where I live. Lemko would be in heaven. I will stop by and get a look if I have time, I think it runs through Sunday. I will bring a camera.

I saw a black 55-56 Buick 4 door HT last night too.

bhill2

Shifty,

Out of curiosity, how do you feel about the small Jag sedans; the Mk. 2's out of the late '50s and early '60s? I know that the 2.4 was a dog, but how about the 3.4 and 3.8? For some reason, those things have always blown my (figurative) skirt up.

seminole_kev

Bhill, if you don't mind my input. The 3.4 and 3.8's are pretty quick. My 3.4 easily keeps up with traffic, and will do 80 no sweat. (I've "lost" the hydraulic 5th gear, so I try not to take 4th too high. One day she'll be getting a modern 5 speed transplant (and I can't wait).

I love the Mk2's (obviously). Like all brit cars, the thing to watch for is rust, rust, rust. Parts availability is very good as they built a ton of them over the years.

seminole_kev

Also, while I don't like the styling as much, there is always the S sedan. Very similar to the Mk2, but styled a little bit differently. Big advantage though is they can be found for a cheaper price, have a little bit nicer interior and have an independent rear suspension, unlike the Mk 2's cruder rear setup.

A Mk 1 is always an option as well.

Mr_Shiftright

I love 'em, either a 3.4 or 3.8 is fine, but I'm partial to stickshift with overdrive and wires wheels (painted, NOT chromed!). The automatic Mark IIs are extremely handicapped by that Borg Warner slushbox. I think the Volvo 122 had the same basic unit. It ruined that car, too.

The overdrive is splendid but it's tricky to rebuild. I had a hell of a time getting one back together, but finally did, with help. It works great though, and adds a cruising gear to the car which is may or may not need in the USA.

The Mark II is rust prone to the max, and it is a very complex car, unlike say the MGB---so restoring one is no easy task.

I rather regret passing up a deal on a beauty two years ago for $18,000. It seemed like a lot of $$ at the time, but given the quality of the car, it was actually very cheap by today's standards.

Another caveat, there's a lot of crappy Mark IIs out there.

I don't like the S myself. I feel it just messes up a classic and near-perfect design.

fintail

I saw an open-top Ferrari Mondial (would this be a Spyder?) Today, red of course. Also, a large amount of 50s and 60s Buicks at the parking lot of the motel, for the local show. I thought about stopping and looking, but I was stuck in traffic hell.

magnette

Literally in the last five minutes a Ford model A - Lhd so probably a US one, not one built here, has just driven past my office in suburban London - not a fully restored one but not rodded either -it didn't have mudgaurds, but was basically sound, and looked like it was in the throes of being restored...

andre1969

I spotted a good looking '56 Buick Roadmaster convertible on the Baltimore Washington Parkway. Red, top down, and it had a continental spare on the back, but was one of the more tasteful configurations...not one of those things that pushes the whole bumper back two feet.

It was driven by a guy in his 50's, rolling along in the right lane at about 60-65. He was having problems keeping it in the lane though, being more RoadHazard than RoadMaster!

andys120

I saw a really nice B Roadster yesterday in BRG (not the forest green they used on the early models). It was a small bumper car w styled steel wheels and big tailights (c 1969-'70?) in really fine shape, top down on a nice day.

Mr_Shiftright

sigh....I still miss my '71 MGB...I only got rid of it because there was this mysterious vibration at 65 mph that was incredibly annoying. I just wasn't up for busting down the engine and driveline and balancing everything...but I should have, in retrospect. It ran great and looked great. The ONLY time I ever got a hot date well beyond my usual capabilities, strictly because of a car. UK girl, natcherly.

fintail

I drove by the Buick show parking lot on the way to work this morning, what caught my eye most was a very highline '57 Buick 2 doot HT.

Also, last night a red ca. '52 Buick convertible drove by my place.

fintail

I saw a few more cars out on the road from the local Buick meet...a trio of teens and 20s open cars in heavy rushour traffic, a 61 large 2 door HT, a very nice looking black ca. 55 4 door HT, and a big ca. 69 convertible.

magnette

Sorry - I've only just looked at your link re the Monte Carlo winners - I think there was one year when all the Minis were eliminated over a technicality with the lights, and surprisingly a French team won - 1966 I think....
What is surprisng is that the year after Mercedes Benz did their hat-trick, three Panhards did the same....Always had a great respect for the humble Panhard - great little cars...

bhill2

Thanks, Shifty. You mentioned that the Volvo 122 had the Borg Warner slushbox. So did the 144 (at least the early ones). My parents had a '68. The mind has to stretch to comprehend what a dog that thing was. I literally bent the accelerator pedal trying to keep up with traffic. Actually the term accelerator pedal was a serious misnomer in that car. You had to push the pedal to the floor just to get it to stop slowing down.

Mr_Shiftright

Borg Warner sure made some bad trannies. The one in the original Jaguar XJ6 was just awful, and the failure rate was alarming. I think it was called a BW66.

Best thing to do with a clean Volvo 122 automatic is convert it to manual transmission. These cars are starting to be worth enough to go to that trouble, and you end up with so much better a car. Ditto any Saab Turbo from the late 80s, early 90s. Another dog of a transmission, although I think the Saab used a Japanese unit, surprisingly enough. Was it "Aisin"...do I have that right?

british_rover

Aisin Warner was the Japanese subsidiary of Borg Warner I think. The original Freelander had an aisin transmission and to say it was the worst transmission in a modern vehicle would be an understatement.

Mr_Shiftright

Well now THAT explains everything!