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I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

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Comments

  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Did that Buick look like this style?

    Yeah, but I want to say that the grille mesh was vertical?
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    I think it was somebody with lots of skill, and ambition, and a wrecked/flooded SL they had for parts that they could only use body panels from.

    I figure it takes a lot of work to adapt SL panels to a Lebaron of all things.

    This should have been a sequel to the TC by Maserati.

    It should be called "SL by Chrysler and Bob's Autobody"

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    In a perverse, sick, nauseating way I am actually impressed with this car, in the same way that I might be had Dr. Frankenstein introduced me to "something I have in my laboratory".
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    during my lunch break today. On my way home, I saw a '77-78 Plymouth "small" Fury sedan. Generic metallic police-car blue, faded and a bit ratty looking, but still solid and not rusty looking. I've seen this one around before.

    On the way back to work, I saw circa 1969 Ford fastback. I'm guessing it was a Torino. Could you get just the Fairlane in a fastback? It was all black, and really sharp looking. It was also stalled out at a traffic light! But he did get it running.

    Oh, I also spotted a Pontiac G8, in that coppery color. I think this might be the first time I've actually seen one out on the street.
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,670
    the combination of nice weather and cheap gas seems to have energized the Street Rod community in the Phoenix area. I saw a nice '32 Roadster painted orange with a big supercharger scoop sticking out of the engine. Another was a black Deuce Coupe looking stock except for the jacked up rear end and missing side plates on the engine compartment, shiny black finish w red disc wheels.

    I also saw what was apparently a stock daily driver '63 Chevy Impala coupe w the faux-convertible H/T. The maroon paint badly needed to be compounded but there were no dents or rust. Chromed Torq-Thrust style "mags" completed the period look though they looked almost tiny (14"?) on such a big car.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    since it's texas, i envision a scenario like this: divorce settlement. wife's lawyer: my client is owed one Blue SL 600 convertible. huband's lawyer: the one with the 3 pointed star in the grille? wife and lawyer conference, yes that one.
    husband and lawyer conference, we reluctantly agree, however we are asking xyz in return. :P
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,107
    ...a TR-7, BRG, looked in great shape! A big improvement over the planter I saw a couple of months ago :sick:
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    a black Chrysler 300G survivor in pretty good shape, great actually, except for some door dings.
    also, a local car dealer with a small museum, the same one with the turbo trans am i posted about last week, brought an orange superbird, a sassy green challenger hemi(1 of 12), a black AAR cuda, a gold GTO judge, a GT 350 shelby, and a 65 silver corvette coupe.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    that buick v6 (252ci) is only a couple of towns away from me.
    252ci translates to 4.3 litres, which means 3/4 of a gm 350?
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    '58 Fuelie Pontiac: Did ANYBODY make a car in America in 1958 that wasn't styled into wretched excesses? I can't think of one offhand.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    at the local auto show today, a bmw isetta was featured that you could get your picture with. the smart cars near it looked huge, as they really are.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    that buick v6 (252ci) is only a couple of towns away from me.
    252ci translates to 4.3 litres, which means 3/4 of a gm 350?


    Actually the 252 was a 4.1 V-6. Similarly, the Caddy 249 was a 4.1 V-8. The 4.3 V-6 that was 3/4 of a 350 was actually a 262.

    The 262 was/is a good engine, although I guess they're getting a bit long in the tooth by now. However, the 252 was a mess. It was a bored-out version of the 231 V-6, and from what I've heard it was very fragile. Supposedly it really wasn't meant to be bored out that much! The 252 was only produced from mid-1980 through 1984, and thankfully not too many of them ended up in the big Electras, Ninety-Eights, etc. It was fitted with a 4-bbl carburetor and had 125 hp. It has the same hp, but more torque, than the Caddy 249 V-8 of the time. So I wonder in cases where you could get the V-6 as a credit option, if it might have actually been the better performer?

    It's a shame that Electra's equipped with that engine. Other than that it's a nice car...nice color, too. I guess if you take care of it though, and don't abuse the engine, it might be good for many more years of leisurely cruising?
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    '58 Fuelie Pontiac: Did ANYBODY make a car in America in 1958 that wasn't styled into wretched excesses? I can't think of one offhand.

    There are a bunch of old "Motor's" repair manuals (big blue books) in my grandmother's garage that cover from something like 1953-1976. When I was a little kid, I used to like looking at the pictures of them. They had pictures of all the grilles of the cars, for identification. Sometimes they'd show just the grille and bumper, sometimes they'd show the headlights and more of the front-end of the car. With the '58 Pontiac, they just showed the grille.

    I remember thinking what a beautiful piece that '58 Pontiac grille was. It seemed kinda sleek and modern, and just very pleasing to the eye. I imagined that such a beautiful grille would have an equally beautiful car built around it.

    Boy was I disappointed when I finally was what a '58 Pontiac looks like! :blush: Actually, the main area of its styling I don't like are the headlights. They just bulge out too much, and give the car sort of a dopey look. I think if they had recessed the headlights and given it a much more sloping hood, similar to a Chrysler or DeSoto, the car would have looked much better. Even if they tucked them in just a bit, say, like a '58 Chevy, it would have improved the look.

    I guess it made the car appear longer from certain angles though, since the jutting headlights lengthened the fenders. I imagine these cars were easily damaged, since the headlights and taillights jutted out beyond the bumpers.

    I still think it's more attractive than a Buick or Olds from that era, but among GM cars I think Chevy and Cadillac were by far the nicest looking. That color scheme, the two tone blue, really looks good on the car.

    Oh, as for 1958 cars and style, Shifty, you and I are going to disagree on the Mopars, so I won't even go there. :P However, I can think of one United States car that wasn't over the top in 1958. The Studebaker Scotsman. It's sort of a boring, hum-drum ilttle car, but inoffensive enough IMO. The pricier Studebakers got big fins and pretentious grilles that looked like they were swiped from a '57 Chrysler, and they also had these hideous pods tacked on up front, in order to fit quad headlights into single-headlight fenders. The Scotsman looks like it's just a carry over from 1957, though. The front-end makes me think just a bit of a '57 T-bird.
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,670
    Did ANYBODY make a car in America in 1958 that wasn't styled into wretched excesses? I can't think of one offhand.

    This is the only '58 Detroiter I can think of, not much chrome or contorted shapes.... it's got big fins but by '58 even the high dollar Euros were sporting fins.>

    image

    It's worth noting that the '58 300D was nearly identical to the '57 300C, which many consider the best-styled of the Chrysler letter cars. I myself prefer the '56 300B but then I think '56 was generally Detroit's finest year for style.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I like how that bottom of the line stripped down cheapskate car is the "Scotsman". I wish they could have names like that today.

    You mean to say a 58 "Packard" isn't a tasteful car? :P
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    The lack of chrome does a lot, indeed. I was thinking a 300 would be a relatively tasteful car too, along with some of the lower line fullsize cars.

    Or maybe a 58 Lincoln or Olds :P
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well I have to admit it is not decorated like a birthday cake like most 58s, so in that sense it did escape the worst of it...but those fins...OMG...batwings....kind of a parody of tail fins (OHYEAH, well my fins are THIS big!!!).

    I'm not a big fan of useless appendages on cars I guess. I like purposeful design, which is why 1958 is a particular problem for me. Air scoops should scoop air, landau bars should lower roofs, knock off hub cabs should knock-off, blah blah.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    I'm not a big fan of useless appendages on cars I guess. I like purposeful design, which is why 1958 is a particular problem for me. Air scoops should scoop air, landau bars should lower roofs, knock off hub cabs should knock-off, blah blah.

    Well, the fins on the Chryslers and DeSotos (not sure about the Dodges and Plymouths) did help give the cars stability at higher speeds. :P I heard you had to get up to about 80-90 mph to really see any benefit, though.

    Also, if you want a clean, simple, unadorned 1958 car, Chrysler would have been more than happy to sell you a monotone car with a minimum of chrome. Something like a single-tone '58 Firedome or Saratoga was very clean and unadorned...almost TOO clean for 1958!

    Chrysler really was the master of the tailfin back then, though. Especially with the DeSotos and Chryslers, they actually integrated them into the design, rather than just tack them on. Oh, and as for benefits, well they aided in parallel parking or backing into a tight spot, letting you see where the car ended! And some designers took advantage of the fins, and put the taillights higher up, for better visibility.

    And from a visual standpoint, when done right, they do give the car a more aggressive stance, making it appear low in the front, simply by adding more height to the back. It's not such a far fetch from modern cars, which have low front-ends, beltlines that kick up towards the rear, and tall rear decks.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Oh Andre not even YOU is going to believe that! ;)

    Probably the only stability fins provide is the extra weight on the rear wheels.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    On the subject of aerodynamics, I wonder if that tall, forward-thrusting grille on the 300C/D hurt performance any at higher speeds? Seems to me that the more sloping hood of a DeSoto or a regular Chrysler would have been a lot friendlier to the wind. Although I guess these cars committed enough other aerodynamic sins that a protruding nose didn't really make things any worse?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    That's good enough for me :P

    The cars having some following will be encouragement enough to keep up on mine, too.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    For real open air fun, get an AC Cobra 289 or fakey-doo replica.

    I saw one of these an hour ago (fakey-doo, Shelby, whatever - it was rumbling nicely). It's about 38°F out and I think the guy was having fun, but it was hard to see his face to tell. He was decked out in a wool cap and an Isadora Duncan scarf.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    It's an interesting question because apparently, from what I've read, you really can't tell the aerodynamic capabilities just by looking at the shape. There's what's called "naive aerodynamics", wherein one assumes that a swoopy shape will have a better CD than a brick shape, and that's probably correct, but what might be surprising is that the outrageously swoopy shape, if not previously tested in a wind tunnel, might not be THAT much better than the brick.

    Some of the 30s cars had these "naive aerodynamics". They were styled to look like they could beat the wind, but in fact had all kinds of headlight pods and trumpet horns and front frame irons to slow the car way down.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    There's what's called "naive aerodynamics", wherein one assumes that a swoopy shape will have a better CD than a brick shape, and that's probably correct, but what might be surprising is that the outrageously swoopy shape, if not previously tested in a wind tunnel, might not be THAT much better than the brick.

    I think a lot of that even holds true today...a lot of cars might look sleek, but then something minor like the shape of the side mirror ends up throwing it off. Anyway, some sleek looking shapes actually aren't, while some brick-like shapes are sleeker than you might think. These days though, I think most cars fall between 0.30 and 0.35, although some of them are down to 0.25.

    Wikiepedia mentions that the 1935 Tatra T77 is 0.212! I wonder what the Chrysler Airflow's CD was? The car actually was wind-tunnel tested, so it actually was aerodynamic for the time. Probably why it was so ugly, because it followed natural law moreso than a stylist's eye! I haven't been able to dig up any numbers for it though.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Today I spotted a 61 Buick fullsize convertible languishing in some shrubbery beside a house. It didn't appear to have a top, so I am pretty sure it was very far gone.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    I'm surprised that a 1959 Impala was down to 0.44! I remember reading that in the late 1970's, when wind tunnel testing became more commonplace and there was an increasing focus on aerodynamics, cars were getting down into the mid 0.5's. For instance, I think a 1977 Mercury Cougar XR-7 coupe was around 0.56. When GM re-skinned the Cutlass Supreme, Regal, etc for 1981, that got them down to around 0.41-0.43, and that was a 15% improvement over the '78-80 models.

    I've heard that the horizontal fins on a '59 Impala could make it do weird things at high speeds in the right wind conditions, but I don't think they contributed to any sort of slick aerodynamics.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well all cars are subject to becoming airborne at speed (which is why they use downforce devices or bellypans), but I doubt a '59 Impala could reach the speeds that would cause such an event. These 50s and 60s cars were powerful but they top-ended quite early and they were absolutely out of control over 100 mph unless you gave it a full NASCAR treatment to stabilize it.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...a two-tone green late 1950s or early 1960s Citroen DS.
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,670
    I've heard that the horizontal fins on a '59 Impala could make it do weird things at high speeds in the right wind conditions, but I don't think they contributed to any sort of slick aerodynamics.

    According to an article I read, they ran a '59 Impala thru a wind tunnel to see how much lift it developed at the rear and found out that the lift-drag numbers were similar to other cars of the same size and weight from that era.

    Another urban legend bites the dust. ;)

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    RE: Cadillac "Mozelle"

    "748 original miles. Driven 50-80 miles per year for the last 19 years."

    LOL! Musta been poor at math as a child!
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----------------------------

    RE: 1980 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham D’Elegance (de Concours Cote D'Azur Parisienne??)

    Oh, Cadillac, thanks for the laughs....

    RE:1958 CHRYSLER GHIA. -- now write this down. Never give a design assignment for a real car to a maker of toy automobiles.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------
    RE: 76 Dodge Charger -- I see he has it chained off to keep the crowds at bay. Wise move.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    That Whippet is a neat and interesting car.

    That Ghia is indeed ugly, externally, but the interior is nice.

    The '78 Fiat Brava was feisty and fun to drive, rode well, and was very roomy, especially for a RWD compact. However, it was much better suited to European driving and maintenance habits than to the American ones, so it didn't hold up well here.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    EVERY Fiat is fun to drive.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    I kinda like that '81 LeMans...I always liked that slightly slicked-back front-end. Too bad that was the final year for the nameplate. Unless you count that Daewoo thingie.

    I'd worry about the engine, though. "V-6" and "Quadrajet" make me think it's the Buick 4.1 V-6, which wasn't known for long life. The 3.8 back then was bad enough, but boring it out to make the 4.1 only made it worse. I've heard it was pretty torquey, though, and the 125 hp it put out was approaching some V-8's of that time.

    That must have been a really sorry time to have to buy a car. I think the only engine choices on the LeMans that year were the Buick 231 V-6, Buick 252 V-6, Pontiac 265 V-8, and the Olds Diesel. My old car book also lists the 301 V-8, but only as an offering for the wagon.

    That 1980 Fleetwood is gorgeous in that color scheme. It's still a pimpy car, but I think that dark blue really suits it. Just imagine if it was red!

    My great-grandparents had a Whippet back in the day. My grandmother remembers it from her childhood. It was underpowered, and the joke at the time was when you came to a steep hill you had to get out and whip it!
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    Whippet: neat car, I like the color scheme on it.

    Checker Ghia: the Fiat inspired styling really hides the mass of this car.

    Fiat Super Bravas will always bring out good memories (unless I own one). When I was 4 or 5 years old in Poland my dad's freind bought one and imported it. One day he pulled up to our house. I thought it was the sportiest looking sedan at the time, and when he showed us how the power windows work I thought it was the coolest thing in the world! :surprise:

    The Buick motorhome looks like it came from Cuba.

    Mozelle Caddy: cost $500k to build. Yeah, I think a luxury mansion back in 1974 cost that much to build.

    1980 Fleetwood: I like the color combo on it as well, and the huge lazy boy style seats. However I prefer the slopy roofline of the 77 Fleetwoods, along with their shorter grille and headlights for some reason. Also hard to believe this style lasted till early 90s.

    76 Charger Daytona: All his other stuff is overpriced as well inclduing the Rams. I don't think even Andre would drop $40k on that ride if he wanted to, would you Andre?

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I saw a documentary about the Lawrence Welk Show last night. Dodge was an early sponsor of the show. Here's an interesting pic of Mr. Welk behind the wheel of a Highway Hi-Fi equipped 1956 Dodge:

    image

    Seems Mr. Welk was loyal to Dodge even after they ceased being a sponsor. One interesting image was a picture of the band leader with a new 1977 Royal Monaco
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I don't care what anybody says, I REALLY REALLY like that 1980 Cadillac Fleetwood!!!

    Oh, that poor 1958 Chrysler! Looks like they grafted the front end of a 1972 Gran Torino on it:
    image
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I think that Caddy would be a lot better with a leather interior. Somehow I just don't care for velvet. And was said, if it was red, it would be a headache. Imagine that car in white or black with a red interior. Blue is very tasteful in comparison.

    I too like the earlier version of the downsized Fleetwood more...the one with the funky non-parallel B-pillar, and I want to say the earlier versions had better engines too.

    Good comparison on that Torino.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Lem, I'm going to snag that photo for my new "Separated At Birth" topic. I have the perfect match-up for it.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    76 Charger Daytona: All his other stuff is overpriced as well inclduing the Rams. I don't think even Andre would drop $40k on that ride if he wanted to, would you Andre?

    Those Charger Daytona/SEs and Cordobas really don't do much for me, one way or another. Now the '78 Magnum is a different story...one of those can get me hot and bothered! But still, not to the tune of $40K!
  • lokkilokki Member Posts: 1,200
    image
    Cruising happily along.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...I spotted a black 1992 Toyota Camry coupe that was basically the sedan with 2 doors! I had no idea there was such a car.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,107
    Those Camry coupes kinda remind me of those XJ6Cs that Shifty loves :P
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Not as much as I love the XJS :mad:

    Memorable Quote:

    "A bad XJS will rip at your wallet the way an actual Jaguar tears flesh from a gazelle
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,558
    I think those were '91-'93? Built off the '88-'91 Camry...

    In pretty good shape..

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  • lokkilokki Member Posts: 1,200
    Yes, yes, yes, bad cars, BAD!

    But so beautiful. Many's the man who has willingly paid to be around such beauty, even while he knew the slut was robbing him blind. Sometimes it's worth the cost.

    image
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    These cars are so totally awful, that in my mind, nothing justifies their reputation. A 1910 Oldsmobile is more reliable.

    But my main gripe about them has to do with Jaguar's abandonment of its LeMans heritage, and in no longer making affordable sports cars for the middle classes.

    Turning to building these incompetent luxo-barges was their doom IMO.

    To give you perspective, consider that "quality control" by Ford was considered a major improvement.

    At least we might presume that the cruel mistress would do SOMETHING well. :P
This discussion has been closed.