I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

Mr_Shiftright

Ah, what you need to do is come up with the "flower equivalent" of her Granada---whatever that might be. :confuse:

Perhaps she fancies herself a curator of historical artifacts?

andre1969

Ah, what you need to do is come up with the "flower equivalent" of her Granada---whatever that might be

Well, what kind of flower is ostentatious, showy, and cheap, but at the same time can be mistaken for a much more expensive flower if you get drunk enough and then poke yourself in the eye? :P

Mr_Shiftright

I'm thinkin' those very old fashioned, large petal rose bushes like you see on hallmark cards you send to your grandmother :P

lokki

The flower equivalent of a Granada obviously something artifical

Looks like an expensive orchid, but smells like cheap plastic

andre1969

but one of my friends actually WANTS a Granada. His first car was a 1979 Granada coupe with the 250 inline 6. Whenever I go to car shows and swap meets, he always asks me to be on the lookout for one. I guess I shouldn't judge considering some of the crap from that era I've had affections for. :P

lokki

You think THAT'S sad? Well, I just went to the Dallas Craigslist, and put in "Granada" as the search term.... and I only found one....

This one. :sick:

**Old school classic for sale** - $3000
http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/cto/1111111173.html

kyfdx

My girlfriend (no, not the current one) had a Granada coupe with the 250-6cyl.. She had to shut the A/C off to go up hills... :surprise:

Her next car was a '79 BMW 320i.. I might have had a little influence there..

fintail

That's a nice "Granada"

How do these ads even become posted? Are people really so clueless?

lemko

Hmmm! Makes me think that if you do buy an old car to have somebody else follow you in case something does go wrong. At least you'll have a ride home and won't be stuck all alone on some desolate stretch of road where any psycho can come along.

lemko

I learned to drive in just such a car! My Dad had a 1978 Ford Granada coupe - dark red with a white landau roof, thick white vinyl moldings, and white hubcap centers. It too had the inline 250 cid six.

lemko

Maybe your friend could get the ULTIMATE GRANADA!!!

imidazol97

And some make fun of Cadillac for the Cimmaron... Look at that Granada with a Lincoln label.

Mr_Shiftright

Isn't this about the time Andre says "Actually I like the '79 Lincoln"? :P

andre1969

Hmmm! Makes me think that if you do buy an old car to have somebody else follow you in case something does go wrong. At least you'll have a ride home and won't be stuck all alone on some desolate stretch of road where any psycho can come along.

That's what I ended up doing just about every time I've bought a car. And I guess it would make sense, since I'd either need a ride up there, or else I'd have two cars to bring back! When I bought the Catalina though, it was near where one of my co-workers lives, so he just gave me a ride. That was up north of Baltimore, maybe 50 miles away. So theoretically, I was taking a chance I guess, but that car did well coming home, too. Other than getting a stone chip in the windshield! :sick:

andre1969

No, even I don't like those things. About the only good things I can think of about them is that they were the first domestic car to offer a clearcoat paintjob (1977 I think) and they use a 9" rear end that has the same spring perch as a Fox-body Mustang, so it's a direct bolt-in.

I guess if someone gave me one, or needed a beater and found a halfway decent one at a cheap price I wouldn't thumb my nose at it. But it's not something I'd drive 500 miles for, like a '76 LeMans. :P

My buddy with the two 1978 Mark V's bought his first one from New Mexico, and drove the thing home! I guess that's about 2500 miles or so? He didn't have any problems. The second one he bought was out of Chicago and I think he had it shipped. It only had around 11,000 miles on it, so I guess he didn't want to throw another 900 on right away. He did finally get rid of his first one, which threw a rod last summer. I think he managed to get $800 for the carcass, and it went to someone in Florida who's into those things.

Every once in awhile, he had talked about getting rid of it, after he got the nice one, and talking a pretty cheap price, and I have to admit I had been tempted. But considering the car's ultimate fate, probably a good thing I didn't go for it.

fintail

Speaking of Lincolns, I actually saw one of those Mark VIs today, it was burgundy and kind of a champagne gold with thick chrome rocker panel covers, a very period combination. It had a disabled tag hanging from the mirror and looked to be very clean. It also had a digital dash. I bet the owner is over 80.

Mr_Shiftright

A 1959 Chevrolet station wagon. Not a pretty car, even when restored, but a rare one.

This particular car was running and registered, but looked rough from all angles.

berri

I was always a sucker for the unique tailfins and instrument panel on those 59 Chevy's. I wonder if Virgil Exner did some freelance? The wagon was certainly a 4 door sedan with an appendage attached though. I often wondered who is credited with the 59 Chevy? The GM design center was in transition from Harley Earl to Bill Mitchell at the time, but I don't think either claimed this one.

fintail

I saw a mid 80s Toyota Xtra cab 4x4 like the one Marty desired/had in Back to the Future. Unfortunately, this one looked like it had been taken back to 1885 and then driven for 124 years.

boomchek

lol, don't most look like that, with fist sized rust holes in the bed and around the fenders?

fintail

Rust, bondo, primer, multicolored body panels, the works.

Mr_Shiftright

I had a '59 convertible once. They were sturdy cars. I actually liked the dashboard. I remember it was red. The car was white and had red and white upholstery. Drove that sucker to Colorado from NY, no problems. I think I still have a picture somewhere. Let me see if I can dig it up.

lemko

A high school buddy's grandfather had a two-tone 1959 Chevrolet Parkwood station wagon. It had a cream-colored roof and a bronze-colored body. It was powered by the 250 inline six-cylinder and a manual shift on the column.

Mr_Shiftright

Ah the stripped down model. Probably had no power steering or brakes either--possibly did have, however, a cable operated overdrive.

bumpy

It was powered by the 250 inline six-cylinder

IIRC, the 230/250 sixes didn't come along until 1962 or so. A '59 should have had the old stovebolt 235.

andre1969

IIRC, the 230/250 sixes didn't come along until 1962 or so. A '59 should have had the old stovebolt 235.

I completely missed that. I think the 194.5 straight six came out first, as an option for the 1962 Chevy II, and then the 230 came out in '64, as an option in the Chevelle and standard in the big cars?

Mr_Shiftright

The old 235 had quite a long run---about 30+ years I believe. The only other engine I can think of that was used that long or longer was the Jaguar dohc 6, from 1948 to well into the 1980s. Which is why I always scratch my head when people take that Jaguar engine out and replace it with a Chevy V-8. Best part of the car!

Speaking of which, the small block Chevy V-8 had quite a run, too.

SPOTTED: Gold colored smoking rusted bent smashed filthy Mercedes 300D. I'd like to open a shelter for abused 300Ds someday.

andys120

Probably had no power steering or brakes either-

I had occasion to drive some of those massive old tanks without power assist. Curiously, IIRC, the Biscaynes we had in Driver Ed were bare-bones with no power boost. I venture to say that without power steering and brakes cars would never have gotten much larger than they were in the early 50s.

andre1969

just out of curiosity, what is the largest car you could reasonably drive without power brakes? I had a 1967 Chrysler Newport hardtop coupe. 383-2bbl, power steering, but manual drum brakes. I never had a problem with it, and even more tellingly, it belonged to a little old lady before me. She'd had it since 1971, and I'm sure if those brakes were a problem for her, she would've hit something eventually!

I know disc brakes require more pedal effort, and make a power assist almost mandatory. Other than that Newport, the only non-power brake cars I had were my two Darts. The slant six with its 9" brakes wasn't bad, but on the V-8, even with its larger 10", it could sometimes overpower them on hot days after a few hard stops, if they were out of adjustment. I've never had a car with manual steering, although my '68 Dart went one worse than that...power steering, but broken! With the same ratio as power steering, plus all that power steering crap that would fight against you when it had no fluid in it, that sucker was quite a tricep builder.

Mr_Shiftright

Some of the largest cars ever built never had power steering or power brakes---or even hydraulic brakes!! :surprise:

They did have huge steering wheels and skinny tires, though, so that helped.

With trucks of the 1930s, it was not uncommon for drivers to suffer broken wrists when their rigs hit hard bumps in the road. This was one reason power steering was developed--initially it was meant for trucks, not cars. Chrysler was a pioneer in PS development, in the late 1930s.

You will still see the broken wrist syndrome in amateur racing.

andys120

My recollection is that the lack of power brakes was less a problem than the manual steering. Most people have more strength in their legs than in their arms.

The wide tires seen on today's cars would not be possible without power steering. I for one would gladly swap the extra grip and traction of modern tires for the enhanced feel of unassisted steering or brakes. IMO the real fun in driving comes from tires on or near the point of losing traction anyway.

I know that's a contrarian view but then I prefer cars that are small and light.


I know disc brakes require more pedal effort, and make a power assist almost mandatory

You may be right but my TR-4A with front discs and 185/70-15 tires needed no power assists, OTOH my 124 Sport Spider with discs at all four corners and 165/70-13s came with some sort of semi-power assist. Interestingly both cars had great brake balance to the point where brake lockup was rare even in panic stops.

andre1969

I drove my '79 New Yorker to work today, and just coming back from lunch, I heard the power steering pump begin to groan as I came in through the gate. By the time I parked it, the steering was getting a bit stiff. :sick:

I guess tonite's going to be a fun ride home. Although with my luck, watch the car refuse to start this evening...after all, this is the car that's left me stranded at work a couple times! :surprise:

lemko

Shoot, you're going to have arms like Popeye if you drive that New Yorker sans power steering!

andre1969

Shoot, you're going to have arms like Popeye if you drive that New Yorker sans power steering!

Once I'm out on the road it won't be too bad. But maneuvering out of the parking lot will be fun. I'm really kicking myself right now too, because I put power steering fluid in it a few weeks ago...but instead of keeping the rest of the bottle in the car, I put it in the garage. Lotta good that does me now.

Mr_Shiftright

Also not good to drive a PS car without the pump working. The steering ratios are not right for manual steering and put a lot of stress on steering parts.

andre1969

Also not good to drive a PS car without the pump working. The steering ratios are not right for manual steering and put a lot of stress on steering parts.

Yeah, that's why I'm not going to let the car go without PS for long, and I'm going to take it easy going home. Back in the 1990's, I worked with a guy who had a gorgeous 1983 Cadillac. I think it was a Fleetwood, rather than a Sedan DeVille. Light blue metallic, and almost perfect condition. Well, he bought one of those little Fairmont-based Continentals, and gave the Caddy to his kid. Power steering went out on the Caddy, and the kid thought it would be "cool" to drive it without the power steering. From what I heard, after a few months the steering and such was so messed up that the car wasn't worth fixing, and they junked it.

I'll confess that I let my '68 Dart go for about 45,000 miles with no power steering. Luckily, when it came time to fix it, all it needed was a pump and steering box. I think it cost about $350 total to fix it. Guess I got off lucky.

That Dart was also a lot lighter than the NYer, or an '83 Fleetwood, so it probably didn't strain the rest of the car as much.

texases

"That Dart was also a lot lighter than the NYer, or an '83 Fleetwood, so it probably didn't strain the rest of the car as much. "

My '72 Duster had manual steering and drum brakes. Not so good at stopping (especially when I was pulling the U-Haul trailer ), and it took a little work to steer, but not bad at all.

bumpy

On more modern cars with built-in setups, you don't want to run them without fluid for any length of time. My old truck, though, has a regular manual steering box plus a hydraulic arm across the front steering linkage to provide the power assist.

andre1969

well, I got my '79 NYer POS edition home, without incident. The power assist didn't totally fail, so it really just made a lot of hideous groaning noises. Still, I made sure to take turns slow and wide, and avoid turning the wheel too sharply. So I'm guessing no permanent damage, yet. Other than the new pump it most likely needs.

lemko

Before you go through all the trouble of a new pump, does it leak fluid a lot? The return hose is often suspect. I have put a new power steering pump in a Chevrolet Caprice. The pulley is pressed-on, so you will need a puller and and installer. That was the hardest part and it takes a lot of brute strength. Getting the pulleys to align properly is also a pain. However, you can save a lot of money doing it yourself - but it will take some time if you haven't done it before. It took my Dad and I about five hours.

hpmctorque

I could be wrong, but I thought Chrysler introduced power steering in '51, with the hemi engine. I'm not aware of power steering before then, at least not in American cars.

wevk

Thes were popular befor power steering:

A brodie knob (alternate spelling brody knob) is a knob that attaches to the steering wheel of an automobile. The knob swivels, and is intended to make steering with one hand less difficult. Brodie knobs are also known as necker knobs, presumably because they allow steering with one hand while the driver wraps his other arm around his passenger's shoulders. Other names include Suicide Knob, Granny Knob, and Steering Wheel Spinner.

Although brodie knobs were never widely popular, they enjoyed limited popularity on trucks before the advent of power steering. Their main use today is still in trucks, particularly semi trucks where they allow simultaneous steering and operation of the radio or gearshift. They also see extensive use on forklift trucks used in warehouses and even riding lawnmowers, where frequent sharp turning is required while moving about.

http://www.1939chevy.com/images/Suicideknob.jpg

Mr_Shiftright

Yes Chrysler was the first car manufacturer to make PS commercially available, but workable power steering was being tested successfully by 1927 by Pierce Arrow, and Cadillac had a production unit ready in 1934 but cancelled it when projected costs vs. limited sales did not look good. The USA provided armored cars with PS for the British in 1940.

So it was really only the marketing and the war that held it up. The technology was all figured out long before Chrysler made it economically feasible.

PS, along with the automatic transmission, put a lot more women in the driver's seat. It was a boon to car sales.

andys120

We used to call those "Necker's Knobs" because a guy could put one arm around his girl and steer with the other.

They are also used as an aid for drivers who have lost the use of an arm.

berri

That's what they were called when I was growing up in the Chicago area as well. How about a little Lou Christie and "Rhapsody In The Rain"!

andys120

How about a little Lou Christie and "Rhapsody In The Rain"!

LOL, perfect!

fintail

Today's stellar (not a Hyundai) sightings - a K-car wagon, and a W115 300D in a dark period blue color in similar condition to my fintail - clean with a patina

andre1969

Before you go through all the trouble of a new pump, does it leak fluid a lot? The return hose is often suspect.

Well, I filled it up about a month ago, and that lasted until Wednesday. However, I also didn't drive it very much in that time.

The return hose is often suspect. I have put a new power steering pump in a Chevrolet Caprice. The pulley is pressed-on, so you will need a puller and and installer.

Ugh, I didn't even think of that. I just figured that when you got a new pump, the pulley would come with it. Stupid me! I imagine then, that my NYer's pump is the same way. I might just break down and take it to the mechanic. There's some other stuff I want done on the car, too. Mainly just maintenance stuff like belts/hoses/coolant, check the brakes, and a tranny service. I could do most of that myself if I really wanted to, but I guess I'm getting lazy.

lemko

No, the pulley is a separate piece. If the pump came with the pulley, we'd have had had the job done a lot quicker! Good thing both Dad and I were in good physical condition. You practically needed to be King Kong to pull and install that pulley, even with the proper tools! Don't try to use the puller one would use for drum brakes. You'll bend the pulley and you'll then be SOL!

Doing the job myself saved me $300.

andre1969

Don't try to use the puller one would use for drum brakes. You'll bend the pulley and you'll then be SOL!

I should get me one of those, considering that's what the DeSoto needs to have its rear brake drums pulled off. The only type of puller I have is one that will pull off a steering wheel.

I dunno how much a new power steering pump for the NYer would cost. When I had my '79 Newport, its power steering went out, and the mechanic replaced the pump for about $200 I think. That was way back in early 1998 though.