I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

fintail

I was thinking the price it got was even too steep. It's a big 70s tank compared to a cooler 50s wagon or a cleaner 60s wagon. But it's still pretty cool

I had a Matchbox Renault 17, I remember it. I think it ended up like most real ones, being smashed in the junkyard.

andys120

I've always been facinated by postwar Euro cars that attempted to capture the American styling of the 50s. Today I saw one I'd never seen before and wouldn't you know it's one of my favorite marques, Auto Union.

I didn't see an Auto Union 1000 SP coupe in the metal, it was a page in a calendar that's included with the Jan 2004 issue of Classic & Sports Car a UK publication.

The photo shows a nose on view of a '57 Thunderbird traveling alongside what appears to be a Germanic rendition of the same car with a similar grille, wrap around windshield, small tailfins and the legend "Auto Union" on the fron of the hood.

The caption read only "Ford Thunderbird and Auto Union". I went to Google to see what the heck this could be and came up with a 1958 Auto Union 1000 SP, a 980cc coupe with a longitudinal fwd set-up. I turns out it came in convertible form with an even greater resemblance to the T-bird. The best photo I could find a link to is of a scale model....

http://www.toysandhobbies.com/store/hbtoys/zoomin.html?zoomdir=it- - ems&zoomimg=2598%2ejpg&itemsku=PMA400011030&id=xog6Cq- - aZ
Anyone ever heard of this one, Shifty?, Fintail?

fintail

Yep I've heard of it, and I have the calendar too. It's pretty cool, and such a funny obvious copy of the T-Bird.

Did you actually see one, in person?

andys120

I'm ashamed to say since I consider myself a keeper of the Audi/Auto Union flame.

Mr_Shiftright

I vaguely recall the car but not all the details. I know it was built on a DKW chassis and had that same 2-stroke used by DKW and Saab. It looks more to me like a miniature '55 Bird front end grafted to the back of a '59 Chevy coupe.

You know, in 1960 not much was going on at Auto Union. Another one of those 60s Euro odd ducks that are curiosities rather than really serious cars.

fintail

Too bad...I wonder if there is one in the US, or if there is, more than one or two. I doubt it. I have a pile of old 'Autocar' mags from 1959-1964 and I think it is mentioned in some of them. I am sure on the continent, one would fetch some decent money.

Speaking of Euro oddities, there is an excellent looking article in the current "Thoroughbred and Classic Cars" about 60s Euro station wagons. I didn't buy the mag, but I am tempted. It features, among others, a really cool Fiat 2300 and a beautiful Mercedes 230S Universal.

And on that subject...here's a pic I took the other day that shows something obscure. It's not my fintail in the foreground, which looks pristine in the spotty flash of the camera, which also makes the floor look 10 times worse than it is. The rare thing here is the car behind it...it's a 230 Universal. I recently read that under 50 of these, of all models, were shipped to the US when new. 56 230's were made in 1965, the year of the car shown. It's dusty from sitting, and is in process of some renovations/freshening.

Here's the pic

wimsey1

that I've seen just up the street from my house. Haven't seen it in a while but I think it may even be an original Studebaker.
Andys120, I remember reading that Horsch and Audi (in Auto Union) were started by the same guy named Horsch (a germanic Olds/REO story) and that Audi was the latin form of his name. Do you know, is that true and if so what did Horsch/Audi mean?

fintail

Here's something about August Horch, and the Horch/Audi connection

nolid5

Fintail, you posted that link on the Galaxie wagon and on my way home from work I pass a '70 era green Ford Galaxie 500 four door in fairly good shape. I spotted it in Gloucester, MA with Oregon plates on it.
A few weeks ago you mention Peugeot and the next day I spotted a 505 wagon ..... weird, very weird.

andys120

I've read that Horch came up with the name Audi
because it's the Latin equivalent of his surname which means "listen" (or "hark!") in German.

wimsey1

scanty

I saw a red "Chrysler's TC by Maserati." I still see an occasional running LeBaron convertible, but a TC is a rare sight. You have to love the opera windows. It was in very rough condition.

blh7068

but very rare and all in one place!!

Over this past weekend I got to view a very unique collection of RARE musclecars

69 Trans Am RA IV 4 speed
70 Buick GSX
70 Olds 442 W-30
67(I think) Hemi GTX
70 Superbird(440 6 pack)
70 Hemi 'Cuda 4 speed
70 Chevelle SS 454(LS-6)- Bench seat w/column shift auto.

and I got to meet GTO Guru Jim Wangers

fintail

OK nolid...now you need to spot a 63-65 Mercedes 300 SE LWB in immaculate condition, two tone sky blue and white, sunroof, etc for maybe $500 parked in the driveway of some old house. Then you can email me and I'll be out there LOL

That's some stable of muscle cars...way way into 6 figures there.

There's an immaculate pearl white TC in my area...I like the beveled porthole window, but the rest is so unashamedly a LeBaron...doomed from conception.

Weirdest thing I saw today was a Merkur Scorpio...not very weird, but unsual

Here's the worst thing I have seen in some time

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item- =2454591861&category=6019

PF_Flyer

Don't forget tonight's member-to-member chat -- Our topic tonight is "Driving Distractions: What Makes You a Bad Driver?"

 



 

http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/townhallchat.html

 

6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET. Drop by for live chat with other members. Hope you can join us!

PF Flyer
Host
Pickups & News & Views Message Boards

andre1969

come out to the Carlisle PA all-Mopar Nationals in July, and you'll see more TC's in one spot than you'll probably see in the rest of your lifetime! Same goes with Cadillac Allantes, at the GM Nationals in June.

There was a logical reason for why the LeBaron 'vert and TC looked so similar, but I forget exactly what it was. I think the TC was actually penned first, but was delayed for too long, and then got cancelled. So they looked to that shape for inspiration for the '87 LeBaron coupe/vert. But then, the TC was greenlighted again, so ultimately they got stuck selling both of them!

FWIW, I think the LeBaron was the better looking of the two! Probably the best looking K-car ever built! And I'm not just saying that to be funny, either...I do think the LeBaron coupe and convertible were some of the most attractive cars on the market at the time. They screwed it up when they got rid of the hidden headlights, tho...

lemko

...my sister's first car was a silver 1987 LeBaron coupe. My Dad briefly had a blue 1989 model.

ateixeira

I drove a TC once, valet parking back in college. It was OK, but not worth the prices they wanted. It was like a nice LeBaron, basically.

-juice

wale_bate1

You know, reflectively, my own car is obscure enough for mention, I think!

Maybe I should hang on to it as a collector's item...

andre1969

for awhile. My uncle bought it used in April of 1990, ostensibly to save gas, as his other vehicle at the time was a 1980 Chevy (forget if it was a Scottsdale or Cheyenne...it was too cheap to be a Silverado though) with a 350-4bbl...I think it was a 3/4 ton truck. All I know is that it was slow and thirsty, my Granddad's '85 Silverado would blow it away *and* get better economy, out of a 305-4bbl!

Anyway though, after he bought it he hated it. It was too low, and he hated getting in and out of it. So mostly it just sat, while he'd mainly drive his truck. When I got married, he sold it to us. And when I divorced, I let her have it. All my friends and family were saying I should've let her have the Dart and me keep the LeBaron, but I knew what I was doing...that LeBaron went [non-permissible content removed] up soon later and turned into a major money pit!

Mr_Shiftright

I think it is quite illegal to shoot people in all 50 states for looking at a car. You can't set booby-traps either. But yeah, who wants to be praised on their tombstone for proving the point.

Serious rust is no fun to deal with. I know that in some areas of the country people have no choice but to deal with it, but in California rusted cars are rejected out of hand. We have zero tolerance.

In places like the U.K., they deal with rust with about the same familiarity as we do with oil changes. "Cut out your rocker panels today Mr. Jones? No problem!"

Rusted cars are really "damaged goods" and should be devalued accordingly.

wimsey1

what are you driving? Skoda Octavia?

wale_bate1

IS300 Sportcross. Verrrry exclusive club, dear boy...

Scarcer than hen's teeth, this side of any pond.

Mr_Shiftright

Lemme guess...the LeBaron blew a head gasket.

wimsey1

I'm not sure I've seen a Sportcross (that's the wagon, right?) on the street ever.
It's cold here and no one is driving anything odd.
Shoot that reminds me of a snowy night 12-15years ago when I heard a strange wail outside. At first I thought some nut was out on his Kawasaki Mach III, then I thought no...couldn't be. Looked out and it was! A 2-stroke Saab, turned out to be a 750GT no less with the rally odo forthe navigator.
How's that for poultry with dental equipment?

wale_bate1

Trumps me to a tee!

I know I've never seen one in person, and that's a fact.

(Yeah, mine's the wagon, BTW.)

Mr_Shiftright

Ohhh...I LOVE the 750GT. Also the Monte Carlo. You can get good money for one of those, the only old Saab actually worth anything more than $1,250.

wimsey1

That 750 GT was in Rochester Minn., no idea if it would still be around. They are cool. Probably also belong in "Great but not Good".
Oh, and take your meds buddy. ;D

Mr_Shiftright

I'm drinkin' decaf, so I hear you man!

Rochester, huh? Oh, that's COLD territory. A Californian would perish there as quickly as a mosquito in a refrigerator.

A 750GT would be hard to run in that cold. Tiny little radiator---did you ever see it? Looks like the size of a fly swatter (I'm into this insect metaphor today for some reason---maybe because of all the jokes about two-strokes being good for mosquito abatement).

I saw a car advertised that is somewhat rare--- a Volvo 123GT. Do you know it?

jrosasmc

Oh sure...the 123 GT was basically a 122 (Amazon) with the twin-carb B18 engine from the 1800S, stiffer suspension, interior mods, etc. I've only seen one in my lifetime, and they are coveted by Volvo enthusiasts today.

wimsey1

There are plenty of snowmobile mechanics up here. Maybe they keep the ol' Saabs going. And they did come from balmy Sweden!
Fly swatter, good.
I know people used to joke (I think they were joking) that Saab should have cast a handle in the head to make it easier to swap engines!

Mr_Shiftright

Yes, a handle for the head and wing nuts on the motor mounts. You could do it every Spring!

I think the 123GT also had a tachometer as OEM, didn't it? Basically just a P1800 drivetrain in a 122 sedan, which is a great combo. I'm sure a B20E head would improve things.

jwm271

I saw this today on Ebay just before auction was over. Ebay item #2454915932

ateixeira

That won't even perk interest in me, a dyed-in-the-wool Subaru fan. )

-juice

fintail

Here's the official page of a designer who has done nice designs, some falling into obscurity now

http://www.bracq-design.com/transports/design_transport.php

bhill2

The other thing that it had out of the P1800 was the overdrive. I almost bought one partially because of that. I had owned a 122S that I really enjoyed, and the lower revs would have been a great highway improvement. The guy wanted too much for it though; seemed to think that it was an alternative to the BMW 2002 (this was in the middle '70s).

andys120

I'm a huge fan of the pagoda SLs. I shouldn't even like them because my tastes run to more hairy chested, traditional sports cars with a racing background but I love the Bracq SLs (230/250/280), always have.

I didn't know he had a hand in the 320i but for styling alone I thought that was a terrific car even if it didn't drive as sweetly as the 2002 that preceeded it.

wimsey1

a Willys Interlagos? Or even know what it is?

andre1969

well, the head gasket was the final nail in that car's coffin! After the wife and I split, the radiator went bad, the a/c broke, the trip computer, which had a tendency to lie to begin with, just went totally haywire. Power antenna broke. At one point a sensor hooked to the exhaust system burned up (I think it was an oxygen sensor), and as a result, confused the car's computer so it wanted to rev at around 2000 rpms even at idle.

The headgasket blew, and against my better judgement, the ex- went and found someone who put a new gasket and a used head on for like $750. It didn't run right though, so I talked her into letting me take it to my mechanic. Turns out all the vacuum hoses and a lot of the wiring on top of the head were either disconnected or hooked up wrong. Well, my mechanic got it running better for about $70, but said not to put another dime into it. Compression was low in two cylinders, and not much better in the other two. The turbo was shot. It was leaking oil. About the only thing on that car that still worked was the transmission, and that was leaking fluid from a rust hole in the pan!

If it's any consolation though, all this happened beyond the 100,000 mile mark, so I guess the car wasn't a *total* piece!

andre1969

It was a '74 Impala 2-door hardtop. Now, I've seen '74 Impalas before, but don't think I've ever seen one with a roof treatment like this before. I've seen two other rooflines for Impalas of that vintage.

Here's a pic of a '74, with this roof style...


Previously, the only two Impala rooflines from that vintage I was familiar with were these two...


Seems like this was the most common, and unique to Chevy.


I don't see this one as often on Chevys, but it was also used on Pontiac Catalinas and Bonnevilles, Buick LeSabres, and Old Delta 88's

I know in '74, the Catalina/Bonneville/LeSabre/Delta 2-door hardtops went to a new roofline, with a thin roll-down rear window and a big fixed window built into the C-pillar. And I think the Caprice ditched the 2-door hardtop entirely for '74, going for a fixed-window style, like this:



I guess, maybe GM just changed the roofline on the Impala hardtop that year, too? I wonder why they'd go through the trouble, though. I think '74 was the last year for an Impala 2-door hardtop. At least, I've never seen a '75-76, only the 2-door coupes with the same roofline as that '74 Caprice model I posted.

fintail

Bracq had a hand in so many significant cars. Quite a dream career. Can you imagine being the one who handled the pagoda, and was involved with so many others? That car is timeless.

Willys Interlagos = Brazilian 60s coupe that I think is based on a Renault

I have seen an Impala like that 74. Several years ago at an estate sale here there was one just like that, white on white with blue and red pinstriping...I think it might have been some bicentennial thing. It was in pretty nice shape...at least as nice as the one in that pic (sans dent) and it had the same white wheels and everything. They wanted $1500 for it, which seemed like a good price based on the condition of the car. But I would have had little use for it, and I didn't know how long it had sat.

I don't recall seeing that hardtop/more notchback coupe so much...but the Buicks and Pontiacs do come to mind in that style.

seminole_kev

In reference to the top, white car: Was that dent option available from the factory, or was it a dealer install?

;-)

andre1969

doesn't it? And another thing I can't figure...Chevy was doing a "Spirit of America" with Bicentennial motifs in 1974. That white car I posted was a "Spirit of America" edition.

Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the Bicentennial in '76?! Was Chevy just trying to get on the bandwagon two years early? Or maybe with the Arab oil embargo of '74, they were trying to drum up some patriotism?

lemko

...had a 1974 Chevrolet Impala, but his car was a sedan. The neighbors down the street had a Caprice with that unusual roofline. The car on the roll back truck a few posts ago is a 1972 model. My Uncle Daniel had a 1970 Impala Custom with the unusual concave rear window.

andre1969

I'd forgotten that Chevy used a few different rooflines in '69-70, as well. About 12 years ago, I had a chance to buy a white '71 Impala hardtop (I forget which roofline now, but I think it was a Custom, with the concave rear window), for like $600. Kinda wish I'd jumped on it.

I still don't think a '70's Impala hardtop is worth much today, but it seems like anybody who has one they want to sell has gotten their prices mixed up with a '57 Chevy Fuelie or something! ;-) A few years back, when I used to deliver pizzas, one of the drivers had a '72 Catalina hardtop coupe. At one point he asked me if I wanted it, but someone had just given me a '67 Newport, and I didn't need any more cars. He ended up selling it for 8 E-pills (I think that's a street value of $200) and man, was I pissed! Hell, I would've given him $200 for it!!

Mr_Shiftright

Pagoda SLs are nice cars, quite charming, and beautifully made. Very feminine though, I'd have a hard time driving one. Usually the drivers are interior decorators wearing big hats.

The pagoda to have would be a 280SL with the very rare 5-speed Euro manual transmission. This is a nice gearbox and solves a number of problems with the 280SL, one being incredibly high rpms at highway speeds.

Also, nobody knows how to drive these cars. You see them putting around and it just kills them. They need to be wound up fiercely or they load up the plugs and foul the oil.

Another potential problem with them is that the cylinder head mating surface can corrode over time. Beware of a rough-running pagoda SL.

seminole_kev

a 1972 Impala 4 door if I remember the year correctly. Big car. Orginally was my grandparrents. I remember it having white vinyl interior with a gold/bronze-ish exterior.

My only real memory of the car is us getting into a decent accident in it while I was in the back seat. Bashed up some other cars pretty good, but it just had a medium sized dent. I got to ride home with a piece of metal exterior trim with me in the back seat. ;-)

stumack1

...3 different 2-door rooflines on the 1971-76 body. Pic 3 was the standard Impala 2-door hardtop in 1971 and 72. Pics 1 and 2 were the Impala Custom in 1971-72, and the standard Impala 2-dr. hardtop from 1973-75 (and the Caprice 2-dr. hdtp from 1971-73). Pic 4 (the model) was the Impala Custom in 1974 and 1975, and the only 1976 roofline, as well as the Caprice from 1974-76.

Whew!

andre1969

my grandparents had a '72 Impala as well, a forest green 4-door hardtop with a white vinyl roof. Interior was mostly vinyl, but it had green cloth on the seats. Not quite that panty-cloth stuff that was popular at the time, this was called Broacade, I think?

When I was a little kid, I wanted that car when I turned 16. I remember my grandparents and Mom & Dad telling me that there was no way that car would make it that long! They were right...it was pretty much a rusted out hulk by 1982, when I was 12. They sold it for $600 to some friends, who put a new vinyl top on it, drove it for another year, and then sold it for $700. It had about 100K miles on it when my grandparents sold it. I've often wondered how long that car ended up lasting.

About a year and a half ago, I found a '72 Impala 4-door hardtop for sale near me. Looked good from about 100 feet! Once I got up close though, it looked to be about a $1000 car, and that might be a bit generous. The asking price? About $6K! Needless to say, it sat for about a year!

blh7068

right now I'm looking out the window at work and see a very nice condition '72 Impala 4 door. Same brown color as Andre's pic along with same hubcaps!