I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

seminole_kev

It's a 1967 Mk II 3.4 (actually badged by the orginal dealer as a "340" to increase the old profit margin). It came from Coventry orignally Red exterior with black vinyl (sorry, no leather, this was the last year and they started decontenting to keep price competitive). First owner (female) had it immediately repainted white (Go figure).

Has a 4 speed manual with the (and I don't understand how it works) additional electricly activated overdrive). Wood, interior, chrome is great. No rust (a big issue with these). Runs great, just won't stop ;-)

Need's brake work.

Mr_Shiftright

The overdrive is a hydraulic gear set bolted onto the back of the regular transmission. Reasonably reliable. Best thing is to always use the clutch when engaging it, takes some stress off.

NEVER LEAVE IT ON--there is supposed to be a lock out that will not allow you to back up in reverse while in overdrive (it would shut the o/d off if you left it on accidentally) but if the lock out fails, and you back up in overdrive, it's toast.

seminole_kev

Yeah, I've seen that description of the overdrive, but we're just going to have to pretend I'm from Missouri. I'm just going to have to see it (or a good diagram of it) to get my noggin' around it.

Hopefully the big red light will remind me about leaving it on, but will see. Never been accused of being the most observant person!

Mr_Shiftright

It's actually fairly complicated. I've rebuilt one, on an MG (same basic type) and it's a real challenge. Just remember to put in the clutch when you flip it on or take it off. I believe you should get an overdrive gear in both 3rd and 4th, which can be fun.

I love the MkII. The 3.8s with o/d and wires are getting very expensive if they are in top shape. As you say, it is a complex car, body wise, and you don't really want to get into an extensive restoration. Better to buy the best car you can afford from the get-go.

Seems to me that you can get a runner for $6K that has needs and a pretty sharp car for around $18K. A knock-your-socks off restoration goes $25K and up. Beaters and basket cases are in the under $5K range usually, OR they are right hand drivers or automatics that are running with needs.

I could live with an automatic (basically the slug Borg Warner transmission) but not with RHD...too dangerous in highway passing maneuvers.

One problem to always watch out for on these cars is overheating. If you can rig up an electric fan, all the better. Also, if the overdrive ever gives you trouble, you can install a Toyota 5-speed and rebuild the overdrive at your leisure (if you even want to).

Mr_Shiftright

another one for fintail:

http://www.craigslist.org/sby/car/24048032.html

on the negative side, here's a real money pit:

http://www.craigslist.org/eby/car/24034986.html

(or, how to turn $25,000 dollars into $10,000 dollars in six months!)

This one doesn't look too bad:

http://www.craigslist.org/eby/car/23915845.html

here's an optimist:

http://www.craigslist.org/eby/car/23915845.html

seminole_kev

yeah it has a manual on/off electric fan installed. I've heard the stock cooling system was less than adequate. Really I think I got a good deal on the car as it is in great shape other than the brakes, which I can fix. Time will tell though. Can't wait to get it trailered up to the house. Just want to sit in it for a few. Doesn't feel real yet as it is a car I've always liked and wanted (I know, I'm supposed to love coupes or something, but just love this sedan). (not to mention the fact that it wasn't too long ago that the misses and I wouldn't have had a cent to go towards a "hobby' like this. So that's nice as well)

Did I mention that my better half loves the car? Certainly helps.

ghulet

Were the last two (the 'doesn't look too bad' and 'here's an optimist') supposed to be the same? Now I'm dying to see the missing one!!

fintail

Not a bad deal on that fintail, although I would much sooner have an auto than a 4 on the tree. That's a fun car for $1500....that's what I paid for mine too....had it almost 10 years now.

A resto project 6.3....hilarious. You can buy a decent one for the price of an engine rebuild in one, I am sure. And then you can blow it all again on the suspension.

Congrats on the Jag purchase. Always nice to see another classy old car that will be saved and driven and cherished.

I saw a Fiat X19 today, that was as obscure as I could manage. I also saw a really clean early 80s BMW 7 series.

I have never seen one of those souped up Renaults.

jrosasmc

Is the slug B-W automatic in the Mk II the same unit as found in the Volvo P1800 and Saab 99?

Mr_Shiftright

I don't know actually. Probably similar. All I remember is that when they are gone they are GONE...they like to tear themselves to pieces for some reason. I think it's a BW66 in the Jaguar but I'm just going on memory.

If I remember correctly, a new water pump for a 6.3 is $1,500.

andys120

Platinum??

jrosasmc

Wow...all B-W automatics are that bad?

fintail

What's a 4 wheel suspension rebuild in a 6.3? Like 10 grand I bet. Then do that again for the engine...right there you've spent more than it would cost to buy an immacuate original.

Didn't MB use BW transmissions before they came out with the DBAG automatic (fluid coupling and all for occasional harsher shifts)?

seminole_kev

Thanks, I appreciate the kind words.

fintail

No problem. I have a higher-spec old Mercedes of roughly the same time period (a 'fintail') and I see these cars as being at relatively similar places in the period market (a Jag seems more sporty and classic, but the fintail was a good competition car and a 220SE was pretty high tech), so I have respect for them

Here's the fintail

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/fintail/fin117043.jpg

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/fintail/fin117045.jpg

lancerfixer

Someone decided to put the wrong car into storage.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&cate- gory=6173&item=2459538374

BTW, Kev, congrats on the Jag! :-)

fintail

ROFL it's the mintest one of those left. Why would someone save one of those.

andys120

Imagine someone saving a prosaic autiomobile like that after 20 years of mostly being in(climate cntrolled!) storage it'll probably get less that it cost new.

It makes no sense!

jlawrence01

1980 Citation - WHY??

nolid5

I especially like the faux tweed interior :-P

andre1969

to actually see a power window switch secured in that big slab of plastic that passes for a door panel! Everything else about this car screams "stripper", so I'm surprised to see the power windows!

At a few of the Carlisle shows this past season, there were two low mileage GM cars that kept showing up in the car corral. One was a Buick Skylark sedan, like an '81 or '82. I think it only had about 800 miles on it, and was finished in that pretty silvery-green they called "Jadestone". It was immaculate, but they wanted something ridiculous like $7995 for it!!

The other low mileage honey, IMO at least, was a bit more worth saving, but still overpriced. It was an early 80's Olds Toronado. It also had like maybe 1000 or less miles on it. I think they wanted something like $11000 for that prize!!

I just don't understand why somebody would pay all that money for a car though, only to put it away. FWIW, even that Skylark wasn't a cheap car when new. It had the orignal window sticker on it, and I think it was around $11-12,000!

Mr_Shiftright

It's a dark place in the human mind. Don't go there.

lancerfixer

1980 Citation - WHY??

I was kinda hoping you or someone else here could make sense of it. I sure can't. :-)

PF_Flyer

Guess we'll see how closely some folks read Edmund's vehicle details tonight...LOL

Mazda Mania



Liven up your evening and join your fellow enthusiasts every Tuesday from 6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET for our Mazda Mania Chat!

This coming week's chat on Feb 10 is also going to include a set of trivia questions about the 2004 Mazda models, gleaned from the pages of Edmunds.com! So study up and join us on Tuesday evening!!

/direct/view/.ef1b553

PF Flyer
Host
Pickups & News & Views Message Boards

Mr_Shiftright

I always try to tell people that the basis for collecting anything or restoring anything is DISCRIMINATION, which in turn comes from knowledge of the subject.

Sometimes people confuse their "right" to collect anything with the wisdom of collecting it or the knowledge of the field of interest.

jlawrence01

In 1984, I went shopping for a new car for the fist and last time in my life. Went to a Chevy dealership in Hopewell, VA, looking for a Cavalier with cash in hand.

Car salesman tried to sell me a two-tone pink 1983 Chevy Citation. The absolutely ugliest car I had ever seen. When I said that I would not buy that piece of trash, the guy left me in the showroom. Thirty minutes later, I got the drift and decided to head on home ... with the money and
without a car.

andys120

andre1969

would order a pink Citation?! I'm guessing it had to be a custom job, like for Mary-Kay or something? I've always wondered; who does the paint jobs on those Mary-Kay cars? I know they can't be factory, since I'm sure the factories haven't offered pink as a color option since the early-mid 60's!

jlawrence01

I am NOT making this up. It was pink and it was ugly. It was like the last shirt at a Kohl's clearance sale - one looking for a blind buyer.

I ended up at the Avis Used Cars in Richmond where I bought a Plymouth Reliant K which lasted until 192k (and 1993). I guess that is the "happy ending" of the story.

I went to the Chevy dealer because their service department was pretty good.

lemko

...a friend of mine had a cream and green colored 1980 Chevrolet Citation 5-door hatchback that took him through high school, college, and graduate school and beyond. The car had 195K+ miles on it by the time he got rid of it in late 1992.

Mr_Shiftright

Well sure, and now and then someone falls off a ten story building and lands on a mattress on a flatbed truck rolling by---but the odds are against it.

I think that whenever you sense universal contempt for a certain car, there is something very real behind the bad reputation.

But of course, an owner with patience and some skills can beat the odds. I do it all the time with my cars. I know a guy who drives a Citroen SM every day which to me seems so miraculous I would probably visit the car and touch it if I were ill, so that I might be cured.

andre1969

the Citation had actually gotten its reliability up to "average", according to Consumer Reports, and back then, that's was about the best rating you could ask them to give a domestic nameplate! Kind of ironic, because by that time, the cars GM was passing off as intermediates, the Celebrity, 6000, Ciera, and Century, which were based on the X-car, were still ranked as worse to much-worse than average!

What's the "SM" stand for, with regards to the Citroen..."Sado-Masochism"? ;-)

Mr_Shiftright

Maybe Pseudo-Maserati? Oh, wait, that's PM.

Mr_Shiftright

Here are some more sure-fire money-pits:

This one should burn up Benjamins like logs on a cold Alaskan night:

http://www.craigslist.org/eby/car/24119833.html

Now here we have a "great investment opportunity". That's true, if you are investing in the neighborhood Mercedes repair shop:

http://www.craigslist.org/sby/car/24118520.html

Oh, Lord, a rusted out gray market SL. I can hear the mechanics popping their champagne corks:

http://www.craigslist.org/sby/car/24016368.html

andys120

The SLC looks like it posed in a junkyard,

Mr_Shiftright

Should have posed in front of a crusher I think.

Poor tortured thing. Cars have feelings, too. Put it to sleep!

ateixeira

Hilarious, look at the bench bottom with bucket seat backs in that Citation.

If it was registered that entire time, imagine what was spent on car insurance alone!

-juice

jrosasmc

I'm glad you're on this board, because I have something to ask. A classmate and good friend of mine has an '85 300D (Turbodiesel) with about 210k miles on it, and he was telling me it's running kind of roughly now. Also, he says the acceleration is poor when trying to merge onto the interstate. The body is in great shape considering it's a New England car. What should I tell him?

p.s. The heater doesn't work, ditto the stock radio.

andys120

The heater'll probably cost more to fix than the turbo (a bolt-in replacement?).

ghulet

...I don't think is gray market (it has U.S. bumpers, for one). I know that model was sold here, so why would someone import one? Anywho, that car could probably bring some decent cash if it were parted out, lots of SLC-only body and interior parts there (those that aren't rusted out, anyway). Of course, anyone who would spend the money to restore an '81 SLC probably deserves that one anyway.

fintail

"Poor tortured thing. Cars have feelings, too. Put it to sleep! "

I think the same thing too, and people laugh at me

I don't think the SLC is grey market, but it's yet another car with no upside and not much fun potential.

andre1969

but I think the solution is obvious! Just yank out the mechanicals and install a Chevy driveline, like they do with Jaguars!! <ducking>

lancerfixer

Like this?

http://www.jagsthatrun.com/

Or the Ford V-8 conversion for RWD Volvos?

http://www.converseengineering.com/

I'm sure someone has done it. Remember the pics of that blown V-8 powered CRX that were floating around the net a while back?

ps. SM stands for "Suivez Moi au mécanicien."

seminole_kev

wonderful segway!

Well got the 1967 Jag 3.4 Mk II delivered to the house today. Drove behind it for part of the way and you wouldn't believe the looks it got. Just about stopped traffic. Got lots of looks. Funny to watch everyone stare at it in traffic. They are rare around these parts though.

Really is beautiful. Hasn't sunk in yet as it is a car I've always wanted and finally have. Sorry for any grammatical mistakes as we've *ahem* celebrated the car with much wine. Cheers all around.

fintail

I see nothing wrong with a powertrain conversion of the mechanicals are shot. For the price of a rebuilt old Jag or MB engine you can get a nice Corvette engine. 300+ hp in an otherwise stock looking fintail sounds fun.

Good luck with the Jag. Is it really roadworthy? Are the electrics good?

jrosasmc

Seminole- Is this Jag in working condition at the moment?

seminole_kev

It runs and trannys fine. Just the brakes are bad. Actually just the master cylinder is shot. Not a terrible leak, but it is dry from sitting. Going to charge the system back up and get a feel for how bad the leak is and give the system a good checkout. Body, chrome, and interior is in great shape. Runs fine, but I think down the road I'm going to replace that generator with an alternator. I had forgot about them not charging at idle. Runs good. She needs some minor work here and there, but nothing bad that I can tell.

Had her towed because I'm not co-ordinated enough to drive a stick, turn the steering wheel and brake with a left-handed E-brake. (she is a regular old, left hand drive model, but the E-brake handle is on the outboard side next to the door. Just not coordinated enough to do that, so I had her taken up to my house on a flatbed.

stickguy

that second link Andre posted had pics of a Merc diesel wagon converted to a 4.6l Ford V8. Probably a little quicker than it used to be!

Mr_Shiftright

RE: Mercedes Turbodiesel:

Tell him to change all his fuel filters immediately, and put in some Redline injector cleaner/additive--the whole bottle. And then another bottle after that.

RE: Engine transplants on Jaguars....Oh, Lord....I think replacing the Jaguar engine with a Chevy is borderline irrational, or at best pretty uninformed, because the Jaguar engine is about the best component in the car! That inline 6 was produced from 1948 to I think around 1990. That's near to a world record for an engine, and for good reason. It is EXCELLENT. So putting in a Chevy engine doesn't solve any problems, as you still have the weak radiators and electrics to deal with and the bad power steering racks and all the rest.

You put a Chevy V-8 in a Jaguar and you've ruined it completely, aside from making the car virtually sale-proof. It's about as clever as putting a Jaguar engine in a Chevrolet IMO.

Now a Chevy in a Benz turbodiesel, that could be cool, since the car would be lighter and quieter and much faster...but probably no more or less reliable. At least there is some upside...but agaain, a sale-proof car.

I saw this nice 480HP crate rat motor advertised for only $3,995. That would be fun in my 1980 300D. A net gain of about 400 HP---LOL!

ghulet

...but could an older Mercedes body handle all that power and torque. I could definitely see putting a 'domestic' drivetrain in something pretty like an old SL or '80s 380 SEL. Then again, as is the case with the others, you'd still have the vices of those cars (electricals, bad HVAC systems, etc.) to deal with, although the engine is reliable.