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I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I like the Regal, but probably just because it is a Euro car. I had one as a rental last year, non-turbo - that engine wasn't exactly a monster, but the car was genuinely nice.

    I see that 2012 is a US built car. Does it have real nav?
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,284
    It's actually built in Canada now, at GM's Oshawa plant. My 2011 was built in Russelsheim.

    You can get nav in them.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    It does look like it has some kind of Nav screen, but the description says "OnStar turn-by-turn Nav". So...I dunno.

    It does seem like a lot of car for the money. Kinda makes me question whether the 2013 Mailbu is worth it, when this seems like a lot more car for not much more money/
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,284
    I haven't sat in the 2013 Malibu yet, but have looked at a couple on the lot. It is nowhere near as good-looking as the Regal inside or out. The ones I have seen have a much cheaper-looking interior too. Not sure if it is any roomier or has a bigger trunk.

    The nav is an option. Onstar turn by turn is not the same thing.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    "...it exemplified the German fetish of being complex for the sake of complexity."

    I've heard both mechanics and body people essentially say the same is true of modern German cars, using variations on the wording. For example, I've been told that changing the timing belt on our '07 A4 2.0T requires removing the engine. A body shop person gave me comparable examples for body repairs. Fortunately, the new 2.0T uses a timing chain, which generally doesn't require replacement, instead of a belt.

    Now, German cars have a reputation for better driving dynamics than their Japanese counterparts. For a long time I've wondered whether complex, high repair cost designs are essential for achieving this positive differentiation, or is it truly a fetish? As for body designs, in my opinion German cars tend to age better, style wise, than their Japanese counterparts. Is difficult and expensive-to-repair essential to achieve this result too?
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I wonder if the bulk and weight of that old car would strain today's 4 bangers though? V8's did have a lot of torque and grunt to move those old beasts.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    My rental was German-built.

    I remember at one time, the wagon was set to come here....looks like that didn't happen.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    yeah, somehow that screen doesn't look like a normal nav screen.

    Something else to consider, is how it would compare to the Koreans, who offer nice turbo sedans for around the same money. I bet it does offer some value over the Malibu, current one especially anyway.

    Would be cool to get the souped up AWD variant seen in Europe, but I guess that would get pricer than the market might bear.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Not many simple easy to fix well styled cars seem to have much joy built into them. Some outliers (Miata), but it does seem that to get driving pleasure and something that ages well, you get to pay maintenance fees.

    I do think Germans like to see how many pieces they can use to make a whole, and surprise people with it. The big upmarket German 3 usually understand solid styling, anyway. You gotta pay to play.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    I wonder if the bulk and weight of that old car would strain today's 4 bangers though? V8's did have a lot of torque and grunt to move those old beasts.

    Good point, but I think that, if the gearing was quick enough, and the transmission had enough gears, that it would be okay as long as it wasn't lugging the drivetrain. Besides, if you take a modern Altima, Accord, or Camry and load it up with 4 beefy passengers, total weight is probably about the same as a '76 Regal or whatever with just the driver.

    My old car book lists the base weight of a '76 Regal with the V-6 at 3866 lb. I think the current Regal, or Malibu, is almost that much! Now granted, that 3866 lb is without a/c, and so forth, so I'd imagine that most of them were around 4,000 lb.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    Not that anyone would do such a transplant anyway, but if you were to do it why not put the new 2.0T and 6-speed in a '78-8?, since they're lighter? Just wondering, as long as we're fantasizing.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Oh, a transplant like that would definitely work in one of the 1978-88 GM RWD intermediates. Those things started at around 3,000 lb...lighter than most midsized cars today!
  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    So for the time, that Benz 6.9 was probably about the best blend of performance and efficiency as there was at the time, for a car of that size.

    Overwhelming evidence isn't it? For the price of a starter home in 1977 one of the most exotic sedans in the world could deliver comparable performance to a Cadillac CTS today. Too bad that 6.9 blend included the reliability drek commensurate with exotic 70s German hi-tech. Modern car performance/efficiency available across the board today is so much better because the on-board computer technology is so much better.
    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
  • magnettemagnette Member Posts: 4,229
    edited September 2012
    Just booked up a trip to go over to France and Germany in a couple of weeks - just flying to Mulhouse, to see the fabled Schlumpf collection (the French National Car Museum, as it is now known) and then over to Stuttgart for M-Benz, Porsche and possibly two other museums which are easy reach from Stuttgart - namely the AutoTechnik place at Sinesheim (which also has a load of old aircraft) and the smaller museum at Hechingen / Zollernab, which is more of a local car museum I gather.

    Just a short flight from London to Mulhouse, and back from Stuttgart, and I won't even need a car as both the out of town museums are within an hour or so on the train from Stuttgart, so I can also concentrate on the German beer, another interest...
  • blh7068blh7068 Member Posts: 375
    There was no such thing as mileage in those days. IOW, they all were "gas guzzlers".

    Sure you could equip one of those 69 Impalas with a 427 and a 4 speed...but the true performance GM enthusiasts wouldnt go that route to begin with. They would opt for an A or F body.
  • blh7068blh7068 Member Posts: 375
    The 69 Hurst Olds had the 455...but it technically wasnt "factory" since they went through Hurst prior to hitting the dealerships.
  • blh7068blh7068 Member Posts: 375
    edited September 2012
    71 was the crossover year...they published both net and gross hp ratings.

    It was also the year that marked the significant hp drop. Considerably lower compression ratios and the ability to run on low to no lead fuel. Emission controls were becoming more common through the first half of the 70s...with the most notable coming in 75 with the catalytic converter.

    Other contributing factors along the way was the trend towards fuel friendly carb adjustments, and lower axle ratios.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Cool! I'm actually headed to the same area in about 2 months. I'm going to visit Sinsheim/Speyer, Schlumpf, the Ring, MB museum again, MB factory, maybe some others. I've already done Porsche and the Bavarians.

    Not quite such a short flight for me, and after I am done in Stuttgart I'll have car, to enjoy roads where people know how to drive.

    Obscure cars this morning - Vanagon Syncro, early Mazda 929 not using all cylinders, a couple of very clean looking old big Broncos.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Heck, a nice Camcord is as fast as that 6.9 today.
  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    And there's the 147-mph Hyundai too. But I was thinking of the Cadillac CTS luxury and performance/efficiency recipe when I posted earlier.
    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Heck, a loaded Camcord is probably just as luxurious as a rather spartan W116 as well. Just has FWD to beige it up.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    edited September 2012
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    edited September 2012
    Maybe as luxurious, but wouldn't you agree not as classy? Say you're pulling up to a nice restaurant or club... Also, how cool will a '12 Camcord look in several years?
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    LimeRock photos on SnapFish are still demanding my information to view your pictures.

    I tried in Firefox to see if there was a button the IE8 wasn't showing. No luck there.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    We knew about the tradeoffs going in, so for us, at least, no surprises. Just dreaming about eating our cake and having it too.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    edited September 2012
    Which is one reason buying new cars is tough for me to grasp when so many nice used cars are the same price.

    For the price of a Corolla, you could have a show quality 6.9. For the price of a nice Camry, you could have a pristine 6.3. An immaculate 108, 126, or even a fintail might cost as much as a bottom of the line Rio. And late model cars can be priced the same way as they depreciate so sharply. My 10 year old E55 is a lot classier and cooler than anything new that could be had for the money. Maintenance can be dear, but nothing in life is free. If one shops smart, buys the best car they can afford, and puts money aside for needs - they can have a small slice of cake and eat it too, anyway :shades:
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    It must know who I am even when logged in Edmunds, because I can connect to them. I tried to link to it after logging into work and different computer, but it is blocked.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    edited September 2012
    >know who I am

    SnapFish set a cookie on your computer. Try clearing all your cookies, which will clear auto logons as well, by IE, Tools, Internet Options, Delete. Then you'll get what a new computer logging on will see.

    I have bad memories of Snapfish from somewhere long ago and I won't give them anything in the way of information. So I won't log on even though I may have an old, out-dated logon ID.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,284
    Two cars today just going about their business. Nothing flashy or special about either, certainly far from being show cars:

    1. A '67 Malibu station wagon, faded black (or black primer), running around in a business park, looked like it was doing errands. Looked bone-stock.

    2. A '71 Fury III 4-door sedan, also black but shiny, decent chrome, didn't see any rust, looked like you dad's car after he had it 6-7 years. You never see Fuselage cars around here so this was a nice surprise.

    Up here in the rust belt it's unusual to see cars like these used as daily drivers.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    edited September 2012
    I agree with you, although it's somewhat of a gray area. For example, if I drove a lot of miles, say over 15,000 per year, I'd choose a Toyota or Honda over a German luxury brand. The lower the annual mileage, the more your reasoning can be justified, in my opinion. That's because the greater the annual mileage, the more maintenance, repairs and warranty tend to trump the attributes of pre-owned luxury models.

    We keep the annual mileage of our A4 below 10,000. If we need to drive more we put the miles on our '99 TL (essentially a nicer version of the Honda EX-L V6) or '88 Z, both of which are low maintenance and 90% depreciated. We maintain all of our cars well.

    By the way, we can well afford new cars, but are neither bitten by the "gotta have" bug nor a need to impress anyone. Our neighbors and friends tend to feel similarly. It's a matter of priorities.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Especially for an older car, one would have to be crazy to put 15K/year on it - just asking for trouble. I can't imagine what the maintenance would be on a 6.9 if used that way (not to mention fuel costs), even if the car was pristine to begin with.

    I find new cars tough to defend unless they are maybe in a heavily subsidized lease. Cars have become so good, that being "new" isn't the only way to have something both nice and reliable.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    Sure. I cited 15,000 to make a point, and was thinking more in terms of an 6 cylinder E-Class, or even a C-Class that hit me just right, than a 6.9.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    edited September 2012
    ...very nice gold 1972 Buick Centurion two-door hardtop with a black vinyl roof on Tookany Creek Parkway in Elkins Park, PA.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    edited September 2012
    A modern E or C should be capable of that with not a lot of drama, just pricey servicing. The 2007+ or so models of both don't seem to be too troublesome. I see a few miled up ones for sale, so someone is driving them.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    The local newspaper posted some pictures, some of them similar to what my wife took.
    Notice in the caption, 300 in concours judging and another 900 for display.
    No wonder we were overwhelmed.

    Honoree Sir Stirling
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • magnettemagnette Member Posts: 4,229
    Shame our trips don't overlap, we could have met up along the way. I would have rented a car over there, but it seemed pointless, as I can get a direct flight to Basel/Mulhouse from London City airport, which is about five miles away from home, and the rail journey from there to Stuttgart is only a couple of hours, so it hardly seems worth getting one. It would be a real pain having a car in the town as parking etc would be awkward, expensive etc, but if I was undertaking a longer trip it would be more practical.
    I must admit I quite like driving in mainland Europe, even with the usual problems of being on the wrong side of the road by our standards, although my experience is generally in Italy, which seems to be governed by the principle that you can do whatever you like, regardless of the rules, so it is a little less controlled than Germany. (I'm not even sure everybody in Italy does drive on the right, certainly they don't seem too bothered in towns, or on scooters etc.)
    If you are going further north you could try The Hague, in Holland - there is a new museum there which is said to be very good, but I haven't been there myself yet.
    Have you been to Schlumpf before ? I have been looking forward to going there for ages, and it looks great so I must admit that is the initial reason I am going at all - the Stuttgart region is so close though that it would be crazy not to do that at the same time.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Drove a nice Stingray today. 327/345HP 4-speed coupe, modified mildly with power steering, Bilstein shocks, a highway differential gearing, soft-touch clutch and lower profile tires---this turned an ornery brute into a very pleasant driver. The steering was still a bit loosey-goosey as 60s steering tends to be, but the car was easy to handle in traffic and didn't have that typical Corvette low gearing that made freeway driving such a chore. Gobs of torque of course but the engine ran out of breath pretty fast.

    If it' had AC, a short-shift kit and tighter steering, it would be about perfect.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I will be spending several days in Cologne and Stuttgart - no need for a car there. But after that it will be a new stop every couple days, so a car will be easier - not to mention more pleasure. The day I go to Mulhouse, I will be leaving from the Ring and going through Luxembourg - I made a route to specifically take me back into Germany and onto some unlimited autobahn just for the sake of it. Only thing I really need to do now is decide on the car - whether to rent a nice car or a super nice car :shades:

    I haven't been to Schlumpf yet. I'll be in Mulhouse for 2 nights, so I will have ample time to look around. Then off to Switzerland and Austria for a few days before I head home. No plans to go as far as wild Italy, and I'll probably just touch Netherlands and Belgium to add to my country total. I might also hit the Opel museum if I have time.

    I spent several days in Stuttgart a few years ago - I found it to be comfortable - not too big, but big enough to have every amenity, good transit, and of course the local car culture.
  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    edited September 2012
    If that Sting Ray has the 327/350 hp L79 (hydraulic cam) then it's a very good match for the mods you posted. I'm guessing that it was the only engine option above the base 327/300 hp with which you could still get A/C. Not sure about that. Sounds like a nice car. What did it appraise for?
    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Saw a 60s 911 today, a Euro W126, debadged, plastic hubcaps - Euro lights - small bumpers, ca. 1960 Beetle, Ford Tempo, late 80s style large displacement Kawaski sportbike in mint condition.
  • oldbearcatoldbearcat Member Posts: 197
    I took my 48 Chevy to a good size car show last weekend. Sitting next to my car was a completely restored 1940 Indian Bike with an inline 4 cylinder engine. My brother, a motorcycle guy, got the owner to start it up for him. It ran as good as it looked. The Indian went home with a trophy.

    Regards:
    Oldbearcat
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    edited September 2012
    Saw a lot of obscure cars today...

    Pics from the 2012 Kirkland Concours...and a few pics from the LeMay Museum (I didn't have enough time to give it a proper look-over). Lots of varied stuff, something for everyone - everything from mundane early postwar cars to seven figure monsters.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    a Mercedes wagon went flying by me in a rain storm Saturday night.
    I did manage to see 300TD on the back.
    Even when I sped up to 80 to try to check it out a bit closer, it was still pulling away, so I just backed down to 70 again.
    I did some research and think it was a W123 series.
    The accelerator must have been matted to the floor!
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    good way to crack the cylinder head on an old Benz turbo diesel. They don't like high RPM
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,670
    I spotted a 1958-62 300SL Roadster coming into town, it was red, top down and cosmetically perfect. It looked every bit like the finest production sports car of its day--Wow!

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    A few oddballs today: neglected looking Nissan NX2000, early 70s 911, early 90s Infiniti cabrio
  • magnettemagnette Member Posts: 4,229
    Went out in the Magnette today, and at one point was being followed a few cars back by an MG TD - I couldn't stop at that moment because we were entering a busy roundabout, and the Midget turned off somewhere else, but it is unusual to see another car as old as mine on a weekday in suburban London - most older cars tend to come out more at weekends. A few minutes later saw a TVR convertible - the late seventies shape (ie pre wedge).
    Yesterday, I was on a motorway west of Heathrow (in the everyday Alfa) and saw a somewhat more modern classic - a Bugatti Veyron. It was going in the opposite direction so I didn't get a long look at it, but its not something you would expect to see everyday....
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    This past week I've seen 3 ZDX's.
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    This past week I've seen 3 ZDX's.

    It doesn't count if you drove past an Acura dealer!
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,862
    Today on I-71 S, near Mansfield, OH, I saw a stunning mid-'50's International Harvester pickup, red, bone-stock looking, with what looked like it might have been a dump bed...the bed was sitting a bit higher than the cab. Not 1/4 mile behind it was one of those large, luxurious Citroen coupes from the '70's. What an odd combo those two were but they sure made the scenery more interesting. I was going the opposite direction.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
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