I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

uplanderguy

...out my office window at home, a dark taupe-colored '67 Mustang coupe. I've not seen it around town before. Looked pretty decent, but the color doesn't wow me and it had blackwall tires with full wheel covers.

berri

Thanks for posting that interior shot. I really wish old car publications and the like would do more of this because it was an area where Detroit often shined back in the 50's and 60's.

Mr_Shiftright

Milestone padding? I guess! No, wait. Tucker had that.

uplanderguy

Those Aeroback coupes look better to me now than they did then. I do like a larger quarter window like those provided. You rarely saw the cars then, and almost never now.

I'd prefer one that didn't have the blackout trim.

A good friend of mine's parents bought a new fastback '78 Cutlass Salon Brougham 4-door. It looked ugly but we took it to St. Louis to visit a high school buddy of ours who went to Wash. U. out there, and I remember thinking how very plush and quiet and comfy that car was, particularly for the size. One thing I didn't like about those A-bodies of that era, was the raised floor on the front passenger side, to clear the catalytic converter. It sat you unnaturally with your knees up. Now that I think about it, our '93 Caprice was like that too.

andys120

-A mid 60s Studebaker Lark four-door H/T in nice driver condition, idling at a stop light with good (original?) cream paint and chrome. My wife remarked on the good visibility offered by the tall roof and thin pillars.

-1980's BMW 6 Series (E24), parked downtown. Another car with a tall roof and plenty of visibility out sides and back and appearing to be in good driver shape but a bit dirty from all the rain and mud recently. It looked very much like this (same color and wheels)>



I've driven an E24 (633CSiA), they are very nice to drive fast.

uplanderguy

Andre, I'd trust the brochure over the EPA website. As you know, this is a great information source and just plain fun for those of us who like the older models:

http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/

As the years pass, there sure seems to be a lot of misinformation that ends up in later sources.

I haven't verified or disputed the EPA info in this case though.

bhill2

A mid 60s Studebaker Lark four-door H/T in nice driver condition

OK, you've got me intrigued. I was not aware of Studebaker ever turning out a Lark four-door H/T. Is my knowledge incomplete?

jljac

Milestone padding? I guess! No, wait. Tucker had that.

I never said that the Speedster had “milestone padding” or that it was the first car to have a padded dash or instrument panel. I said, “the Speedster had a very nice padded instrument panel that was second to none and was used on the Hawks the following year.”

The instrument panel used on the Speedster was unique to that car only in 1955 (not available on the President) and that fact should have been noted instead of describing the Speedster as “based on a President 2D HT with some extra trim added.” I thought that description was too much of an understatement.

Tucker barely qualifies as a production automobile with less than sixty of them ever built and they were powered by a modified helicopter engine that had cooling problems. I might also mention that Tucker did not have its own instrument panel, so they used a Studebaker instrument panel from the 1940s. That car of the future was only in limited "production" for one model year, and Tucker got sued because many believed that the Tucker was never intended to be a production car but a scheme to fleece investors out of their money. I am not saying that is true, but I am saying the Tucker's status as a production automobile is open to question because so few were built.

stickguy

a '62ish Falcon 4 door. Definitely original condition, and worn, but not that bad. Daily Driver (I have seen it at the mall before, so I assume some kid that works there) with normal (not antique) plates.

and on the road, a hot rod very early 50s Ford PU (looked like a 52). Yellow, v8, mags, but not over the top. Looked pretty sharp.

andys120

Truth be told, I wasn't aware of a four-door Lark H/T either. There couldn't have been many but a Google search turned up this photo (I didn't notice the suicide doors on the one I saw)>



Nice looking car isn't it?

uplanderguy

No, that's a '63 Lark Daytona 2-door Hardtop. In fact, I have seen that car many times over the years as the elderly owner was in our Ohio Region Studebaker Drivers' Club chapter.

There was never a 4-door hardtop sedan Lark.

I used to dislike the '63 Champagne Gold color with red interior combo, but I've grown to really like it.

Just for authenticity purposes, the car in the photo has whitewalls too wide for the year, doesn't have off-white wheels (which would show around the full wheel covers), and has the front bumper guards one bolt too far inboard on each side. It also doesn't have the correct '63 hood ornament but has a '61 hood ornament.

Still, that was a sweet low-mileage car, bucket seats and factory four-speed. It was sold a few years back. The fellow I knew who owned it still had the original window sticker for the car, although he did not purchase it new.

uplanderguy

...but then I like the offbeat stuff...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/RARE-1971-Chevrolet-Bel-Air-Sedan-4-Door-Ultra-Lo- w-Original-Miles-/140870147805?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item20cc83dedd#v4-41

Six-cylinder with 3-speed!

Not unlike the black '73 Bel Air similarly equipped we discussed a couple years back, but I like this car a lot better.

I think the basic elegance of the '71 body shows in this car.

andre1969

I wouldn't want it, personally, but I agree that it's neat to look at. I always thought Chevy did a good job of offering a cheap big car that you could still be proud of. In contrast, I don't really like the Plymouth Fury of that era unless you get one with the hidden headlights. And while I do confess a sort of admiration of the big '71-72 Fords, I think they're a bit ugly compared to a '71 Chevy.

uplanderguy

I don't know how the actual dimensions stack up, but I always thought a '71 Chevy looked like a lot more massive car than a '71 Ford. The '71 Plymouth...I'm not a fuselage kind of guy unless a 300 or Imperial.

Exterior-wise, I think this is all the trim one got on a '71 Pontiac Catalina sedan standard too, although the Catalina interior was far better-trimmed than this BelAir.

uplanderguy

Speaking of '63 Lark Daytona Hardtops, here is my favorite pic of mine that I sold to an Australian a little over a year ago. I miss it, even though he told me he had to rebuild the engine (103K miles). It always did run a bit 'lumpy' in the 23 years I had it:

http://www.studebakerskytop.com/billpresslerpics3.jpg

No, it's not pink, it's creamy factory "Ermine White" (a repaint of course).

I had Stude folks even tell me they'd never seen a real Skytop in person. The badge on the front fender reads "Avanti Powered", with "Avanti" in that funky script that was used on Avanti cars.

Obviously, taste is subjective, but I think it's more elegant than the same year Falcon, Chevy II, or Valiant, and only the Falcon of those three could be had with a V8 of any kind that year. And it's far rarer than any of those cars.

Mr_Shiftright

Not a very desirable car despite the low miles. I'm thinking it will bid up to $6500 or so, which is about all the money. It would be a chore to drive but at least it seems to have power steering, so that's a big plus.

uplanderguy

It isn't desirable by most standards, but all the '71 big Chevys at least had power steering and power disc brakes. Silver with blue interior is yuck to me...I like the one-year "Sea Aqua" they had that year. Still, I think it'd be fun to take that to a Chevy show and park it in a sea of Impalas, old Bel Airs, Chevelles, and Camaros!

magnette

Last week I passed a repair garage a couple of times and they had an Austin Seven Ruby saloon in for work - it was a runner because one time when I passed someone was reversing it out of the workshop.
Also they had a Mercedes Benz 'Pagoda' SL - couldn't see which model. They had a Triumph Stag in there a few weeks previously.

fintail

I saw this thing again lately, same little old lady driver. I bet it's an original owner car, probably restored:



I'll be in Europe very soon now, here's another collection I plan to visit:

http://www.rolls-royce-museum.at/

uplanderguy

Nice car, but could they have made that "California Special" nameplate any larger? LOL

I always remember that the rear side marker lights on '68 Mustangs came in two different styles...the one on this car and a 'sunken' light with body-color surround/framing. Maybe from two different plants.

ab348

How do you know it is going to Europe? Did the owner sell it?

ab348

I thought that '73 that was mentioned had manual steering? Maybe I'm thinking of another freak car...

The '71 Chevy was a nice styling job, but that generation of B-body was just way too big and bulky, even for the times.

I never liked the stripper-model '71-'72 Fords - too many police shows on TV used them back then and they were really plain - and the Fury I/Fury II were very plain taxicab specials. But the '71 Dodge Polara wasn't bad, though Dodge was more of a competitor to Pontiac and both had a bit more luxe trim than the Chevy/Plymouth equivalents.

omarman

I think that '73 Biscayne had power steering and brakes and was bid up to around $4450 but didn't meet reserve. :surprise:

fintail

Oh, I think you misread me ...I am going to Europe, I am pretty sure that CS is staying at home.

stickguy

A real one. No clue what year, it was out front of a car wash waiting to get wiped down. A nice BRG.

roadburner

...I saw a Sunbeam Harrington LeMans being towed down through Georgia. I actually think it was this car. My classic car tastes run to the obscure(in this country anyway) European cars of the '50s and '60s.

Mr_Shiftright

Well it would be "fun" to take to a show in the sense that you would remain invisible to the crowd. A stripper 4-door just can't compete with all that glitch, chrome and horsepower parked next to it. Well maybe you could take it to an Amish car show :P

lemko

I love the look of the 1971 Chevrolet. It sort of apes a 1969-70 Cadillac!

lemko

Green and white 1955 Chevrolet Bel Air and a light brown metallic 1973 Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight.

uplanderguy

I'll go out of my way to look at something out-of-the-ordinary, like a bone-stock plain jane, at a car show. I get tired of red convertibles.

What I wonder most about this car is, how much value (real and perceived) will be lost in less than 100 miles, when that first odometer zero goes away?!

I wonder what happened to the spare, also.

A little bit of googling showed that the dealer, Harpster Chevrolet, was in a tiny town called Warriors Mark, PA, which according to wikipedia has under 1,800 people as of 2010, and that the dealer closed in 1979 after being in business for fifty years. The salesman, John Gilliland, as per the documentation of the car on eBay, began working there in 1931!

fintail

I like the unusual, too. Most shows tend to contain the same old muscle cars and tri-Chevies, with maybe a foreigner or other make thrown in. This would be of interest, just to look at a preservation object.

uplanderguy

It's funny. I grew up on Chevys and buy them for my daily cars, but didn't really want to pursue one for a hobby car; hence, Studebakers which I'm old enough to remember around town and thought were different. As a side benefit I learned about afterwards, NOS and even reproduction parts availability was excellent and NOS prices were pretty darn low.

Something that totally blows a hole in my general theory though, is that I like a sharp, authentic '55 or '56 Chevy, but it better not be red or black!

fintail

I find Studebakers more interesting than the usual show cars, especially the last of the full sized cars, or Hawks. I think I've seen every possible BelAir.

When I was a kid, I had a book that pictured a 56 Nomad, Sierra Gold and Adobe Biege. For some reason, I thought it was gorgeous. I guess I'd be fine with seeing one of those, or Nomads in general as they are cool.

imidazol97

> I get tired of red convertibles.

And they all picked up continental spares in the restoration process.

I go to the cars that are mostly original.

uplanderguy

That Bel Air would probably do pretty well in the fairly-recent "HPOC" category at Hershey...survivor cars. That's been where some of the most interesting cars I've seen at the Hershey AACA show the past few years have been.

Yeah, no s*** about the continental kits. I detest them. And if I never see another fender skirt on a model where 98% of them did NOT have skirts originally, it'll be fine with me. I believe one can over-accessorize a car even if they're all in the make's accessories book. On Studebakers for instance, I just detest the door handle guards that I see on a fair number of cars at the big shows.

fintail

Survivor cars are big right now. Probably because of a combination of things - historical significance of originality, and the insane costs of restoration. Patina has become appreciated, cars that would have got a frame off 20 years ago are just cleaned up now...and that's not a bad thing.

I remember seeing a continental kit on a 66 Galaxie convertible at a local show some time ago. Insane.

Mr_Shiftright

RE: 71 Chevy -- it won't matter at all if you put 10,000 miles on it. There's not much value to begin with, so it's just a small deduct off a small number. This is the kind of car you buy, drive and use it by enjoying it. There's no sense to preserving it, since it's of no historical value (too common, too many left).

uplanderguy

Man, I don't know about you, but I about lived at a Chevy dealer in the early '70's and I never saw one, single, stick-shift full-size there, ever. Nada, zip, zilch. I saw one '71 Impala Sport Coupe, six with automatic.

I just think it's interesting. The low mileage and amazing preservation are what is amazing to me. You simply will not find another '71 full-size Chevrolet of any trim level in similar condition. I look at them a lot on eBay too, and I've never seen a single other one in this condition...ever.

I'm sentimental, as we were a Chevy family then, that's all. I'll admit if it were a '71 Ford Custom, I'd stll be pretty awestruck about the originality but would be far less interested in the car.

Mr_Shiftright

Fair enough then, your point is well taken, but there are plenty of rare, uninteresting things in the world. Just because you have the world's best preserved garden rake, I'm not sure that's much of a big deal, for instance.

The whole idea of "collecting" is to be discriminating. If everything is collectible, then, in fact, nothing is worth collecting.

andys120

Saturday afternoon is spotted not one, but two, split window VW Microbuses parked next to each other, nose to the curb. The one with a plate indicating it was a '65 had the rows of little windows along the top. It was in what I'd call beater condition. with faded paint, dents and a little visible rust. The other was in standard Microbus trim and "I can't believe it runs" shape with big rust spots all over it.

I don't know if one of those would be worth the expense of restoring. They weren't very good cars but nothing could be better for a rolling Keg Party (don't ask how I know that).

uplanderguy

There's room for everybody and every taste in the hobby. If not, we'd all have red '57 Bel Airs, red '65 Mustangs, red '59 Cadillacs, red '64 Impalas, and a bunch of other 'me too' cars that would have me on the brink of...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Mr_Shiftright

There has to be some level of discrimination at car shows, so that people don't bring any old junk to them---car shows require that the crowd be pleased.

uplanderguy

Do you go to any AACA events, along the lines of Hershey? The HPOF class (preservation) has cars with 'patina' and there's always a crowd around them.

That Bel Air would be welcomed at Hershey and with a judge that knows Chevrolets, would score quite highly in the HPOF class.

andre1969

That Bel Air would be welcomed at Hershey and with a judge that knows Chevrolets, would score quite highly in the HPOF class.

Yeah, they're so picky and anal-retentive in the judging in most classes in that Hershey show that, oddly, the only one of my cars that would really get much respect is, of all things, my $500 '79 New Yorker. It's just about all stock/original, so it would go in the Historic Preservation of Features category. They'd ding my 5th Ave because of the copcar rims, not to mention the fact that it has no exhaust aft of the catalytic conveter. My '76 LeMans would get whacked for its dual exhaust, aluminum intake, and aftermarket ignition that did away with the GM HEI unit.

I know my '67 Catalina would get smacked because of the Rally 2 wheels. It also has a built-up 400 with a 4-bbl carb, although I don't know if the judges would be able to spot that. While a 2-bbl was standard, a 4-bbl was optional. And anything that was done to the engine internally, I'm sure there's no way of telling. And honestly, some of those judges aren't too bright. My buddy had his '78 Mark V Diamond Jubilee there, and the judges questioned him about the body-color paint in the wheels, the gap in the pinstripes where the owner's initials could be stuck on, and the fake vent louvers in the front fenders (something that, as far as I know, EVERY Mark V, designer edition or not, had for the whole '77-79 run).

As for that '71 Bel Air, my attititude on it is that I wouldn't want it for myself, unless it was free. And then, I'd probably turn around and try to sell it. But yeah, if I saw it on a show field, it would definitely catch my attention. In conversation with my friends, at some point the phrase "I think it's cool that someone preserved something like that" would come up, and we'd end up chatting about it. But then, we'd move on to some other offbeat car that caught our eye.

A car like that definitely has an audience. Not a big one, but it's there.

uplanderguy

And honestly, some of those judges aren't too bright.

I know there's no way every judge can be an expert on every make, but I know what you mean. There wasn't a Mark V made without those fender louvers.

I knew a guy who said his Stude judged better at Hershey than at a Studebaker Drivers' Club national meet.

I've never been to a meet like, say, Pebble Beach, but I've sure seen my share of real beauts of all makes at Hershey, and interesting cars with patina in their HPOF class there.

uplanderguy

BTW, andre, since you like DeSotos, did you ever see the gold-colored '58 DeSoto convertible that used to appear in the show at Hershey a few years back, that was supercharged? It was a one-off thing I seem to think, but it looked authentically restored and was gorgeous.

imidazol97

I like seeing something like this car. I don't know if it has the "patina" talked about here, but it definitely is original IIRC talking to the owner. I believe is has low mileage, perhaps 20-40K.

Seeing this kind of reasonably original car sends a tingle...

Mr_Shiftright

I think the car hobby works just like any other hobby one indulges in, don't you?--as you learn more about the objects of your admiration, you tend to become pickier and more selective. Same with art, collecting toys, whatever. I personally don't go to car shows to see ordinary utilitarian cars. I wouldn't look at the '71 Chevy if I tripped over it, but that's me. I simply don't go to shows that let too many cars like this in. Calling me an "elitist" is a compliment BTW.

Perhaps being in California spoils me. We see low-content old cars still parked on the streets, being used. I have more respect for its utilitarian nature than for the "preservation". Maybe that's why I like old pickup trucks so much---the honesty of their utility. Pretending that a 6 cylinder Chevy is a vintage Cadillac worthy of restoration seems, well, pretentious to me.

I even wonder if a '71 Chevy 6 cylinder car belongs in the "obscure car" topic. :P

uplanderguy

Check the production numbers, particularly with stick, and you'll see it is indeed obscure...far more than other cars seen in this thread.

uplanderguy

There is no doubt that '62 Pontiac is a beautiful car, and the 421 makes it somewhat unusual. But I'd say it's less 'obscure' than a full-size '71 B-Body with six and stick. And believe me, I'd rather own the Pontiac.

That said, the Chevy is far more unusual I think.

I just noticed that it is being talked about on a Chevy forum:

http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/287036/pid/2282008/post/last- /m/1/