I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

jrosasmc

I bet '70s Volvos can really, really thrive out on the West Coast...I've seen many an 1800 in CA, especially in the San Diego area.

ghulet

I never understood why these cars got so much flak, except for the strange styling (mostly due to the reverse sloping rear windows). They were reliable and sturdy, weren't they? Certainly they fared better than Vegas and Pintos, though I guess that's not saying too much.

andre1969

probably got most of their flak because of the name "Gremlin", although I dunno if "Pinto" is any better? Anyway though, it just sounds like a name that you'd want to make fun of! Also, AMC was starting to develop a nerdy, loser image by then. Well, okay, they'd had the nerdy image for a long time before the Gremlin, but by the 70's it only got worse! One of my Mom's co-workers drove a Gremlin back in the 70's, and even though I was just a little kid, I knew enough about them to make fun of them!

I think in retrospect, the Gremlin was the best of the domestic subcompacts. They ran AMC inline 6es and Chrysler Torqueflites, so it doesn't get much more reliable than that. And instead of being designed from the ground up as all-new cars like the Pinto and Vega, all AMC did was chop about a foot out of the Hornet's wheelbase, and make some sheetmetal adjustments, to create the Gremlin.

One thing that was nice about the Gremlin is that building a car like this gave you a front seat that was almost compact, and much roomier than the other cars in its class. Of course, that 12 inches of wheelbase had to come from somewhere, so the back seats were almost non-existent by "real" car standards, but about par for this class.

lancerfixer

A Renault Medallion wagon, and it had clearly seen better days (which suriving Renault hasn't, though?)

lemko

That Mohs looks a bit like the Powell "Homer" automobile from an episode of the Simpsons.

Mr_Shiftright

I think to understand all the criticism that the Gremlin endured you'd have to look at it from an engineering and styling point of view. No one regarded the Gremlin as particularly "bad", but rather a really pathetic attempt as an "import fighter". It had cost-cutting written all over it.

At least the Vega and Pinto looks like something new. You know, if you could have taken all three of those cars, the Vega, the Pinto and the Santa Maria...no, wait, ...the Gremlin, and you might have made a decent car by combining the best parts of all three.

Gremlins are actually worth a bit more than either Pintos or Vegas in the Blue Book, so there's some consolation.

wale_bate1

Spotted on Saturday in San Ramon, CA, on Norris Canyon:


In black with black on yellow CA plates, and "Cadillac" in script on the rear bumper. Pristine. I think it may have escaped from Blackhawk and was taking two fans on a joy ride...

Mr_Shiftright

Handsome car...from the headlights (still outside the fenders) I'm gonna guess 1936-37. Cadillacs were really beautiful up to the late 40s, before the Age of Wretched Excess.

wale_bate1

It's a catalog illus. of a '38, but now you mention it, and on further review, I don't recall a small window behind the B-pillar, so '36 may be right on the money!

I was struck by the length first and foremost, then by the elegant sweep of the tail.

Pretty thing to be certain.

andys120

Speaking of late 40's Cadillacs. I have a new 1948 calendar (same alignment of dates as 2004)featuring 1948 MY American cars. These were apparently the first true postwar cars, '46 and '47 cars being mostly reprises of 1942 models
March's car is a Cadillac fastback coupe and a beauty it is. You can see how it blew away contemporaries (last month's car was a Packard).

In real life I saw a Mercury Comet 4-door, prolly a '66 0r '67 in pretty good shape.

Something new was a Chevy Maxx, the wagon version of the Malibu. At first glance it resembled a Renault or something from the 70s with it's squared-off styling. It struck me as a lot more interesting and distinctive than the oh-so-boring Malibu Sedan.

wale_bate1

Beautiful indeed!



Toward the 50's up to just before the fin wars, I still find the shapes intriguing, even if the ornamentation started to go off the scale.

seminole_kev

as they say, timing is everyting. Check out the "car styling" topic. You saved me a major brain cramp!

andre1969

was the '57. The '58 is the same body style, but with more chrome shoveled on and quad headlights, and I think it's still cool, but in a "different" sort of way! The '59 and '60 are too far-gone for my tastes, but I'd love to have a '61-62 someday! I think they were also good-looking from '63-70.

ghulet

I think they called that body style 'sedanette' or something, the fastback was largely gone after about '49, I think. The 'fin war' started right there with that car, the '48 Cadillac.

wale_bate1

Yeah, Geoff, '48 it is.

The fin wars didn't really get heated until '56, though.

Here's the '53 Eldo:


Not much difference from '48.

Now here's 57's standard fin:


And the Eldo's Seville fin:


It was front ends that got the "bulk" of attention prior to '56-'57...

ghulet

Most cars were still kinda 'blunt' in the rear until like '54-55. Ah yes, the 'potato finned' Eldo of '56-57 (btw, Walebate, Biarritz=convertible, Seville=coupe, I think from '56-60, when the last RWD Eldo coupe was produced). Saw a '59 Eldo convertible at the Chicago Auto Show (from Volo Auto Museum), what a beautiful but crazy car that was.

wale_bate1

Mom had a '62 convertible. I waxed it once.

Once.


Biarritz=convertible Eldo. Got it! Thanks G!

ghulet

...Cadillac decided to make an Eldo coupe around 1977 with a brushed stainless top and called it 'Biarritz'. Naturally.

I imagine waxing a '62 Cadillac would be a fairly daunting task, what with all those creases on all that sheet metal.

andys120

Caddy's best years were prior to '58, they went down hill from there but really freaked out in '59. I would say that the '58 was probably the best of a bad lot while the '59 would have been the worst if it hadn't been for the horrid '59 Lincoln!

Love that '48 drawing, Wale. Like many advertising drawings it totally exaggerates
the length of the car, look at how long the back
side window is!

wale_bate1

Yeah, but hey, what an effect!

I want that '53 Eldo. I want the car, the tennis whites, the clubhouse, the bar, the dinner-dances...

fintail

If only Caddy could bring back this kind of class

ghulet

...that it costs to buy a nice '53 Eldo (nice ones apparently are pushing $100k).

fintail

I could have better fun with that money too

wimsey1

to spend it on any single or bunch of odd old cars whadda ya git? Call it an eccentric bequest from an aunt who drove a Kaiser Darrin in the summer and a Citroen Traction Avant in winter and kept a Blower Bentley to rip by people on dark two lane roads on hot summer nights. Auntie was quite a gal!
I don't know classic prices so I'd probably blow my budget fast.
Arnolt-Bristol, Lancia Stratos, Westfeild Eleven kit with a Mazda rotary?
Fiat Dino?
How would you blow the pile?

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fintail

That's one to think about...you could buy a lot, and 100K isn't even really an outrageous fortune (not that I would scoff at it). Hmmm.....W112 fintail, prewar Tatra (77 pref.)...I'd still have a bit left...I'd probably get a less trendy 50s American car, a less trendy muscle car (maybe like a Fairlane or Galaxie or something), and then still have some left...maybe for an older American car, like that Stutz...so I'd have a balance of both continents. I'd also really like an early (pre 1910) car, so maybe I would have to modify the list.

andre1969

and tomorrow he's flying out to New Mexico to buy this...


He's been lusting after one of these things for what seems like ages now, and finally found one that he likes. It's going to be interesting to see where he puts it, though. His 2001.5 Passat barely fits in his garage, so you know this thing ain't going to fit! And he lives in a townhouse, so I don't think his driveway is long enough either. I think if he pulled it in, even touching the garage door, he'd still block the sidewalk!

ateixeira

It's so big, it's actually in New Mexico *and* Colorado. ;-)

-juice

Mr_Shiftright

Well he can always live in it and rent out the back seat.

Please fintail don't buy a prewar Tatra, you'll kill yourself. There's an interesting story from the WWII German archives that claim that German officers were expressly forbidden to drive these cars, as too many of them were being killed. I'm sure the Czechs cheered them on of course. It's got a big 3.0 liter 4 cylinder (!!) hanging right out the back, and well, high speed cornering leads quickly to treacherous "snap" oversteer I'm told. I've driven IN one but never drove one. We just putted around the parking lot. I loved it, it is so radical.

Ah, not to laugh oh wise Host. I've driven a few engine conversions to Mazda rotary and they have made splendid cars. My fave was a friends MGB, which he equipped with a massaged RX-7 motor, 5 speed transmission and a/c. This car was sweet and being lighter than the original, could really haul. Heard about a rotary engined BMW motorcycle but never got to see it. Heard it was scary. Musta cut the frame?

wimsey1

Maybe fintail should make it into a lamp.
Rotary MGB, bet the purists tried to assainate him. Might be pretty cool.
Rotary 'cycle? yowie.
That engine is so small and light it really can be put in a lot of interesting places.

fintail

Yep, I have heard those stories about the Tatras. I wouldn't fly around at 150khm in it (they can do it easily), just drive it for fun. I'd like an early 77 with faired in headlights or a big central fin on the back. It's like a car from outter space, c.1935. And wasn't the 77 a V8?

My sister once had a Lincoln just like that old Mark, same color and all. It got rear ended hard by a Geo Prizm. Guess which won.

grbeck

Andre, that is identical to the one he looked at when we were at Fall Carlisle. The Mark V at Carlisle looked as nice as that one. Was the price much better on the New Mexico car?

millspd

I am so jealous. My Dad had a '77 Mark V that ran for over 200 K, and the last 100 K were better than the first! After he sold it he saw it on the street years later (certain telltale marks).

I had a '78 with the 460, and that was a great one as well. Puppy saved me from serious injury. I was a dumb high school kid who didn't wear his seatbelt. I was rear-ended by a guy in a Chevy Celebrity going about 35 mph and all I felt was a good jolt when he hit me. His front end was smashed -- all my car had was some bent chrome on the tailpipe.

Oh, and the guy who hit me was my high school superintendent. :-)

andre1969

do you remember how much that Mark V at Carlisle was? I'm thinking $12-13K, but I can't remember for sure. I forget how much the guy was asking for this one in NM, but I think my buddy offered him $7K for it, and they both came to terms around $7,500.

I think it has about 120,000 miles on it, but the 460 V-8 has been rebuilt, and beefed up. It has incorrect heads on it, but I don't know from which year. According to my old car book, the 460's in these things only had about 200-210 hp from 1972-78, so hopefully they're older heads than that! The tranny's been rebuilt too, and some other mechanical things, but I can't remember what he said, now.

He also said the paint looks a bit thin and faded in person, so he's planning on sinking some money into a nice paint job. Interior's supposed to be almost perfect, though. Anyway, he's flying out tomorrow, and plans on being back on Sunday, so I might get a chance to see it in person then.

I love the shade of of blue on this car, though! Can't wait to see it in person! I'm starting to even get an itching for one of these big love boats, but I don't think I'm prepared to spend that kind of money on one!

fintail

If you are patient I bet you could get a nicer one for a bit less. Keep an eye on estate sales and local classifieds.

grbeck

If I recall correctly, the Mark V at Carlisle was down to about $9,000 by the time we left on Saturday. It had about 70,000 miles on it, and the paint and interior were in excellent shape. It did not need a new paint job. It was the same color as that one, and also featured the padded phony spare tire bulge.

I think your friend would have done better to buy the one at Carlisle.

andre1969

I forgot that the Mark V at Carlisle was reduced that far. I guess maybe my friend would have been better off buying it, then. Especially when you figure that he wants to paint this New Mexico car when he gets it back here, and then the cost of the plane ticket out there, and the gas to drive it back...which might cost more than the plane ticket!

Then again, this guy can be pretty nitpicky about cars, so the paint may actually look fine on it. For example, one day I had him look at my Intrepid, to see where I had some body work done on it. Back in 2000, someone tried to break into my car at 6 Flags America, and damaged the front passenger side door. As a result, it had to be repainted, and a dent smoothed out. I had him look at it and try to guess where the paint work was. Well damned if he didn't find every factory flaw on that car...everything EXCEPT that repainted door!!

I think he also talked himself into justifying this car. Since it has so much redone to it mechanically, he thinks there's peace-of-mind there, I guess, as opposed to buying an original with 70,000 miles on it. He also found some old car value guide that lists these things, in a #2 condition, at $12-14K!! I wonder if he stumbled across that over-inflated guide that Shifty and some others have mentioned a few times?

Honestly though, that other Mark V that was at Carlisle, that they only wanted around $1500 for, but was, to be nice, "rough around the edges", would've probably suited me just as fine as paying 5-6x that for a pristine one! I think that one was dark blue with a light brown leather interior.

Hey Millspd, what color was your Mark V?

millspd

Hey Andre,

My Dad's was brown (can't think of the official color right now) and I had a white one. great, great cars, and also one of the most comfortable that I have ever driven.

Mr_Shiftright

$7,500 should be able to buy him a very nice Mark V ready to go, a really top notch car. If this NMex car has "needs" he's paying too much I think. You should be able to buy the best one the world has ever seen for $10K. Old Cars Price Guide shows a #2 at $11.9K and that's #1 super-restoration money. So do the math. Can you turn that $7,500 car into a prize-winning car for $4,000? If it needs paint, the answer is already NO.

andre1969

but the way this guy rationalizes things, it's hard to get through to him sometimes. To him, since this car is a Diamond Jubilee, that makes it worth more. And it's got the 460, which makes him think it's worth a lot more, and it's in exactly the color he wants.

I figure that since he plans to keep this car forever, it really doesn't matter *too* much if he over-pays, as long as he's happy. But if I ever get an itching for one of these things, Shifty, I'll come to you for advice first! But right now there's a 1980 Cordoba LS that I still have my eye on... ;-)

wimsey1

You do have a point, if it is exactly what he wants, and if he wants to keep it, then if he's happy the world is great.
Saw a Scooby-Doo Justy today. I know, but control your excitement everybody. Rainbow paintjob.

Mr_Shiftright

Well he may have a point. The Diamond Jubilee IS worth more in some books. I don't know, maybe 10%? Still, if the paint is bad it seems like a strong price. But not too bad. He won't be buried in it but I hope he's not expecting "muscle car appreciation levels" here. Maybe he could take an auto body course and shoot the car hisself. Quality paint jobs are easily busting $5,000 now.

fintail

If the guy loves the car and will have fun with it...really, whatever he puts into it is worth it. If you look at it that way, you can justify just about anything.

I bet if you keep an eye on local ads over the next few years you could get one a lot cheaper...but you have to wait.

The one my sister had was pretty worn...it had sat outside for some time and needed full cosmetics...but she paid like $700 for it!

And speaking of questionable prices...get a load of this. The bids must be false

grbeck

I'm pretty sure that the Carlisle Mark V was south of $10,000 by the time we left on Saturday. Unfortunately, your friend did a good job of justifying why he should pay the asking price...he needed to approach it from the opposite angle.

andys120

hopefully that clapped out 220SE Convertible will donate some parts to keep one of it's magnificent counterparts on the road

Mr_Shiftright

Maybe the bidder thought he was buying a 1970 280SE V8 cabriolet that has an upside of $80K, instead of a '63 which has an upside of $40K at best. No way he's going to come out on this one if he really paid $10K. FREE would have been too much. You can buy most of the parts NOS or OEM anyway, so $10K is a lot for a couple of trim pieces and knobs and top bows. Seller must be laughing all the way to the bank...unless buyer sobers up after reading this.

michaellno

..a 60's (?) vintage Volvo 544 Sport. It actually said "Sport" on the trunklid. White, 2-door fastback, average condition, driven by a female in her 20's or 30's.

Could someone explain to me what a "Sport" model was back then?

seminole_kev

Just to update you guys on my obscure car, I finally put up the last bit of interior wood trim/light fixtures on the Jag Mk II last night. How Jaguar made built these things at any pace is beyond me. Simply wiring up the B-pillar interior light requires more patience than I've got.

Anyway, looks nice inside. Now on to pulling the head to replace the gasket. Oh joy.

andre1969

0-60 in under a minute! ;-)

Mr_Shiftright

I think "Sport" meant that there was a chrome script on the trunklid that says "sport".

No, actually I think it means twin carburetors. You could order these cars with one dinky Zenith or Solex or some such, but they are very rare. Most people just fit a twin manifold on them.

I like 544s a lot. They are fun to drive, which is a rarity for old Volvos in general.