Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options

I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

154555759601306

Comments

  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Member Posts: 1,711
    Yesterday afternoon I spotted a really ancient Subaru GL wagon- it definitely was one of those from the early '80s. And it looked ratty and very tired as well. I rode in my friend's '84 Subie once and I wasn't too impressed by it. It definitely was a far cry from the Imprezas and Outbacks of today.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I'm not looking at it from a value standpoint. I can see if someone bought a new Rolls in 1930 with a dowdy sedan body...then in 1938 got tired of it, and had it made into a nice convertible. I know that happened a lot...even though they often left out details, like leaving old style headlights on newly bodied cars. It's when a car has survived for 65 years through the ravages of god knows what, and is then messed with to make a few bucks. It might be good moneymaking, but is it good for automotive history? And is the car genuine? I don't think it is.

    Subaru Brats are still a funny sight
  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Member Posts: 1,711
    I don't think I've ever seen a Brat.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    It was a little pickup. I thought they were cool when I was like 5...probably because of the seats in the back

    image

    image
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Subaru put those seats in to escape a big tax on 2 seat import trucks.

    Most people removed them immediately, and put caps on instead.

    Our Subaru club had a run in the Pine Barrens and a couple of them showed up, one was set up for off road use and even made it through a mud pit there, it was pretty cool.

    They can be setup nicely for off road use, being extremely light and small, and with a low range.

    -juice
  • wimsey1wimsey1 Member Posts: 201
    I'm out of my league here but what the hey.
    I remember an article in R&T ages ago about a old Rolls that somebody rebodied as a "boat-tail" speedster and the rear deck was wood trimmed. It was simply stunning, one of the few (the only?) Rollers I've ever lusted after. I doubt if I would have given a rip for the original body.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    The old coachbuilders did beautiful work but in general these custom-built bodies were not very durable. Many were aluminum nailed to wood frames. Can you imagine THAT after ten years of weather and rough roads?

     So it was common to switch them, junk them, change them, whatever. For the well to do, changing the body was no more a violation of originality than painting the house.

    Also tastes changed, and there was no sense trading in a perfectly good Rolls just because the body was not up to modern trends. Off with the boxy 20s body style and on to a boat-tail!

    Probably that old Delage body is so deteriorated it is really scrap metal at this point. If it were more attractive, it would make a great pattern for a new body, but I can't imagine anyone reproducing that one.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I understand period rebodies, and those aren't a problem. It's when someone does it 65 years later with the sole intention of making some quick cash, no doubt...in my eyes anyway, the end product will never be genuine, just a modern re-creation with old guts. But when you own the car you can do as you please.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well that might hold true for a 66 GTO but buyers of these old cars would rather have the new re-creation than the old ugly body, presuming the new re-creation was extremely well done and historically accurate. These modern artisans will even add the patina of age to the re-creation and the average observer would have no idea the body was new, since it's the same metal and sometimes even the descendents of the original builder doing the work!

    Besides, he's not going to make any money on this. I doubt anybody even wants his old body and it's going to cost him a bloody fortune to make a new open body for his chassis.

    You can't preserve every old thing, there has to be discrimination based on aesthetics, rarity, etc. otherwise car collecting turns into junk collecting real quick.
  • wimsey1wimsey1 Member Posts: 201
    that the boat tail Rolls was rebodied in the 60's.
    Can say why I think that, just a memory impression.

    Last week, in Iowa, I saw a good looking approx. 1950 Ford panel truck. Black w/ yellow flames.
    I can't remember ever seeing one before. Dad & a cousin both had pickups of that breed, some of my drivers ed. happened in that '50 Ford with a flathead V-8.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I don't see a new old-looking body as being truly "accurate", it's like a modern version of a colonial or victorian house. There's always going to be something that isn't right. it may look right to a passerby...but inside, you'll know you're driving a fabrication. I anyway wouldn't want that.

    I can't imagine someone doing that to a car like that Delage if not for gain. If you're going to spend a fortune get a higher make.

    Old panels and sedan delivery cars are pretty sought after nowadays.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    money pits. Just go buy a nice one and you'll spend 50% of the price and get twice the car.

    coachwork:-- I've seen modern reproduction coachwork that is absolutely perfect and undetectable from the original. Same metal, same skill level, patterns taken off a real car. It's an exact duplicate. But yes, even with a real chassis underneath, it isn't quite the same at the original. Still people will pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for modern re-bodies if they are well done. Why? Because there are often no more left of the originals to buy, and people want to own them and other people want to look at them.

    Besides, many a 'restoration' uses just a few panels and re-creates the rest. At what point is George Washington's axe still George Washington's axe if you replaced the handle in 1850 and the head in 1950?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I like that re-grilled Bentley S1 the most. Who would pay even the 4 grand that thing has been bid up to?

    I can understand why people would want a rebody. An open car is always more fun for most people than a dowdy sedan or coupe. I am simply talking about historical value and a vehicle being genuine. I think a new body strips a vehicle of much of those factors.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I don't think that Delage body has any significant historical value, but it is "genuine" that's true.

    I think the guy has a nicer period body stashed somewhere. He's just dumping the ugly duckling. If he's got a nice open Delage body from the period, then he's doing the right thing IMO. Maybe the coupe body doesn't even belong on there you never know.

    that nice fintail you found on Ebay is up to $1,825 and there are still 4 days to go.

    so what's the Edsel wagon doing?

    I think the S1 is a parts car. The Wraith might be salvagable but I don't think they are worth all restored what that guy thinks they are worth. He's off by half at least IMO.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    but last week the bidding on this '57 DeSoto, http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=246709925, was up to around $5100. Now I see it again, and it's only at $2600. I wonder what happened?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    If that Delage coupe body is not original, then yeah, there's no problem.

    The Edsel has stalled out at $8100. It is in that lull that seems to happen in the period from about a day after bidding starts to a few hours before it ends.

    If that fintail is as nice as it looks, market should be like 5 grand on it anyway, and it would bring double that in Europe. It looks like an excellent car, and the seller seems to be trustworthy. The same seller also has some other nice "obscure" cars up at the moment:

    A lovely 280SE 3.5 low grille cabrio, in very nice colors

    A very pretty 67 Vette 427/390...although lacking the docs collectors like

    A nice and unusual Mercury Montego

    Now, that DeSoto link doesn't work at all. I have had that happen too. Ebay...
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    I cut part of that DeSoto link off when I posted it. Here's the correct url... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&cate- gory=6190&item=2467099258
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Oh OK. It appears it didn't hit reserve the first time, and he is trying again. The reserve must be way up there.
  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Member Posts: 1,711
    I saw yet another rare Subaru this morning; this time, it was one of those XT6 sport coupes from the late '80s. The last time I saw one of them was like 8 years ago. The styling these days seems weird to me, and quirky too.

    Anyone know anything about these XT6 cars?
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    I worked part time at a department store, and one of the women that worked there had a Sube XT. I loved the styling of them at the time...almost seemed like it was inspired by some of the late 70's/early 80's sci-fi tv shows like "Battlestar Galactica", "V", etc. I got a ride in it once, but we're talking like 10-12 years ago here, so I really can't give a first-hand description anymore.

    I used to see the XT's around on a regular basis, but haven't seen one in awhile now.
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Member Posts: 1,696
    oooh. Now I like that mercury montego you posted. ( http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&cate- gory=6341&item=2467425732 )

    Pretty sweet. Good shape and I've always liked the 390 motor. If the price doesn't go up much that looks good. If I had the money laying around (which the Jag pretty much wiped out) I think I might have to pick that up. Hmmmmm. Wonder if I could convince the wife to buy that as "her" car........
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    I saw a Hudson yesterday -- 4 doors, dark blue, driven by an elderly gentleman on I-25 in Denver. Sort of a fastback style. Very nice condition.
  • wimsey1wimsey1 Member Posts: 201
    I saw a write up (R&T?) several years ago about a company in Brazil (I think) called "Pur Sang" that was building exact, to the last bolt, replicas of a Bugatti 35. Can't imagine what it cost ot do such a thing. Any thoughts on such creatures, including a bunch that are doing replica Cunningham C4R's?
    I belive Frank Curtis' son will also still build people a Kutis 500S. Now, is that still an "original"? If done well I would think it is worth more than a replica by others, but not as much as a good older one.
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,670
    these pop up every now and then. I think there's a company out there that will duplicate the awesome Duesenberg SSJ if you fork over enough money. Given the popularity of "remanufactured" E-Types in Britain, some of which cost over 100,000 pounds, I imagine brand new old-style ones will be soon made from scratch by some enterprising soul. Since 100K pounds is over a quarter million $ it should be economically feasible.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Member Posts: 1,696
    TV show where they hoopty up somebodies beater.

    First one I saw they did up some kids Dihatsu Hi-Jet van. The second one I saw was a girls mid to late 70's Cadillac (one of those BIG ones).

    Car was absolutely falling apart. They gutted the interior and but in new everything. Put a running water fall in the back seat area, DVD screens, sound system. On the outside they repaired it, put one of those Rolls Royce grills, gave it a deep pink paint job and 22" rims, and of course, slammed it.

    While wouldn't be anything I'd drive, it is a fun show to watch. Oh, and they put a powered shoe rack in the trunk. (she had a ton of shoes strewn around in the trunk)

    Couldn't help but watch.
  • nolid5nolid5 Member Posts: 148
    That defininetly falls under the classification of obscure
  • ghuletghulet Member Posts: 2,564
    Sounds kinda fun.

    I liked that Montego convertible. A bit obscure, not all that great looking, but I like the rarity, relatively low price and managable size. Oh yeah, and that one is loaded (power windows and seat even) and has a white interior. Quite nice. A friend of mine had a fairly similar '68 Torino GT convertible in that cool period gold-green, but with a 302 (which really is preferable to a 390, IMO).
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It's all cosmetic stuff. They redo the interior, paint, and put on flashy wheels. The engine on that Daihatsu was not touched.

    Bet it runs another 3 months then the engine dies.

    -juice
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Member Posts: 1,696
    pimpin' isn't about mechanical reliability baby. Pimpin's about style!

    (or lack thereof judging by the results. Still fun to watch for some reason.)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    The XT might have had some massive mechanical flaw. I haven't seen one in ages, yet other Subarus from that era seem to have surived better.

    I know there have been very good reproduction Mercedes gullwings and SLRs (1955 style, not new) made too, that are very accurate down to every dimension.

    My first car was a 66 Ford with a 390. That thing could burn gas like no car I have seen since.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    390s got no respect from GM cars. Those blocks were, alas, pretty hopeless in real street wars. You needed the 428 to avoid embarrassment.

    RE: reproductions -- they have their place but they aren't good investments and you won't be welcome at the club meets or car shows. But for rare cars, where there just aren't any to be had, it's one way of enjoying ownership.

    But any reproduction that doesn't use factory engines and drivelines just doesn't cut it--that really is more a "fake" and you, therefore, are a pretender. But a loving and costly re-creation with superb authenticity might be considered more of a tribute.

    The "bathtub" Porsche replicas, for instance, are on a modified VW chassis and engine and while they really look like a 356, they don't feel like one or drive like one; on the other hand, something like a Lynx, a D Jag reproduction in alloy, really does look and feel like the real thing.

    I wonder what the Bugatti replicas are running underneath there? I do know that people are repoducing Bugatti engine blocks in their entirety, so maybe that's it.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    My 390 wasn't especially fast but it could lay a nice patch of burnt rubber.

    The good fake Mercedes I have seen have had the inline 6 out of the E class in them. Not a bad choice.

    I remember when I was about 9 years old the local Ford lot had a blue Bugatti replicar on their lot. It was VW powered. I suppose it could be fun...I liked it then, but I would pass on it now.

    This all reminds me of the Shay Ford A replicas, that I believe were based on the Pinto. Nowadays you can get a real A roadster for less than a fortune...making one of those look foolish, esp if one bought one new. I think model As sold for more 25 years ago than now.

    Someone had to show me this....never seen this trim level before
  • lancerfixerlancerfixer Member Posts: 1,284
    100,000 pounds is actually about $183,000 based on today's exchange rate. At that price point, though, who's counting?
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    the other day I saw a '76 Electra 4-door hardtop, painted in a silver that couldn't have possibly been factory. It had a vinyl top that was, well, about as silver as you can make vinyl look. It was actually kinda neat, giving it a monochromatic look. The real travesty though, was the bling-bling rims on this sucker...they must've been 20" or so! It would've looked great except for those damned rims! Cars back then were so long, low, and sleek that they really didn't need a huge rim to "fill them out". Maybe a 16 or 17", but this was just overkill!

    While on the subject of pimpiness, I finally got a chance to see my buddy's '78 Mark V Diamond Jubilee. Got to ride in it and then drive it, actually. As a passenger, this car scared the crap out of me. My buddy's other car is a current-gen Passat, with a V-6 and a manual tranny. Well, needless to say, he drives this car about like you'd drive a Passat...taking corners too fast, waiting until the last second to brake, etc. It felt something akin to setting the Queen Mary loose in a harbor full of dinghies, with a good, strong hurricane whipping thing around.

    One thing that I was impressed with though, is this car's passing ability. Merging onto the highway, my buddy stomped on it from around 45-50, and there was a nice, healthy kick as it downshifted and threw us back into the seat, easily getting up to the flow of traffic and beyond. Who needs all that DOHC crap when you got 460 cubes with gearing that seems to put it right in that sweet spot when you punch it around 50! ;-) And who cares if it's a noisy, antiquated pushrod...between the sound insulation and the BeeGees blasting on the 8 track, the engine is going to be the LAST thing you hear!

    Once he let me behind the wheel though, I saw that the car is really more "in control" than it might feel to a passenger. And while the car might be 230 inches long, most of that is in front of you, so if you can pilot what you see through traffic, there really isn't that much car left behind you to worry about! My biggest complaint was that headroom in this car is non-existent. But it's also something like 53" tall, and has a floor sill that's probably higher than most car-based SUV's, so that's really not too much of a shock. It also has a sunroof, which cuts into headroom a bit. Front legroom was very good, but the back looked pretty tight. I didnt try it out, though.

    Another thing that impressed me about this car is that just about all the trim that would normally be vinyl on a luxury car was actually leather on this one! The dashboard was leather. So was the padding on the armrests. Genuine leather, not that soft-touch molded foam-backed junk like what Cadillac used, that was famous for cracking and flaking off after a few years. The center console had a leather armrest on top, and had leather trim on other parts, as well. This sucker even has a leather-encased owner's manual and tool kit! About the only thing bad about this car was the fake wood. As far as fake wood goes, it's not too bad, but it just doesn't go well with the deep pile carpet, thick velour seats, leather trim, etc.

    Overall though, it felt more nimble than you'd expect 230 inches of beast weighing in at 4800+ pounds. It did remind me though, of why I prefer Chryslers. Even when they were at their pimpiest, gaudiest, and most flambouyant, Chryslers just felt like they were at least TRYING to give you some handling and road feel. Maybe they'd sacrifice a bit of ride comfort and isolation, but overall I think they struck a better balance.

    Still, a neat car overall.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    If I ever need to sell my DeSoto to raise some cash, I think I'm gonna just part the sucker out!

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&cate- gory=10076&item=2467868400
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Is that really a rare part?

    Was that Lincoln as good as expected for the money?
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    how rare that part is nowadays...it's just the pedestrian spear that was on all 117,500 or so DeSotos that rolled off the assembly line that year!

    My buddy's Lincoln feels like it's in good shape mechanically, but cosmetically it's a little "rough around the edges" when you look closely. The paint is a mix of original and touch-up (it had hail damage in the past). From about 10 feet away it looks good, but there's a lot of fine "spider-webbing", or "crows-footing", or whatever you call it, on the trunk. There are also little dents and nicks here and there, and one crack on the rear bumper that's rusting. Inside looks pretty good, except that on the Diamond Jubilee, they covered everything that would have normally been plastic (a-pillar trim, some trim on the doors, trim around the windshield and rear window, etc) in felt that matched the seats. It looks great when it's new, giving the car an upscale, posh look, but it also fades quicker than the material on the seats and door panels, which is thicker.

    Truthfully, the Lincoln that Grbeck and I, and my buddy, saw up in Carlisle back in the fall seemed in better shape, but I guess as long as my buddy is happy, that's the important thing!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    fintail: the Subaru XT was not bad, it was just rare even when new. Now they're even more rare.

    -juice
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    It's "rare" because nobody wanted them when they were new. They're okay, typical rough noisy Subaru of the day. It's no Honda. The XT6 is really obscure, you see very few of them, but there is a kind of cult around them. Tough car to work on, very tight in there. Not worth much these days but would serve as a fun cheap ride. Yet another bizarre concoction from the 80s.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The wedge shape was polarizing, with most people on the "dislike" side.

    That was actually the first car with a coefficient of drag below .30 (it was .29), that explains the wedge shape.

    -juice
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,670
    the Subie XT had a dash display that puts most video games to shame.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    My friend who runs a Subaru repair shop calls them "landing pods". I had an XT for a short time but neither he or I liked it very much. It's really a very bizarre little car.
  • ghuletghulet Member Posts: 2,564
    The car itself isn't all that obscure, but check this out:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item- - =2467427477&category=6417

    How many Bonneville 4-door hardtops do you reckon were built with buckets and a floor shift? I've never seen one, most I see from this era have the 'strato-bench', while Catalinas usually have a regular bench and a column shift. Strangely, this one appears to have an aftermarket a/c (check passenger side below glove compartment), factory 8-track, power windows but no tilt wheel. Kinda interesting. This goes back to the virtually endless option combinations of options for cars of this era. I just wish this auction had better photos.
  • lancerfixerlancerfixer Member Posts: 1,284
    As a Volvo fan, I'll be the first to admit their shortcomings, among them overall style/attractiveness (especially the RWD models, an example of which I own...things improved somewat with the intro of the 850.) Still, in the late '70s, someone in Sweden got the wild idea to make the 240 even less pleasing to the eye...the world really could have done without these. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item- =2468326396&category=6458
  • ghuletghulet Member Posts: 2,564
    I never understood how anyone thought chopping a couple inches off of, then adding vinyl to, the roof of a Volvo 262 coupe would be attractive. It's pimping the least pimpy car of the era, IMO. I do kinda like the interior design, at least for the period. $17k new in 1978, hmmm? Amazing how overpriced European cars of that era were compared to domestics and Japanese makes. I also seem to remember the U.S. version of the Mercedes 380SEL cost something like $45k when introduced here in 1981, all 155 horsepower. I wonder what that amounts to in 2004 dollars.
  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Member Posts: 1,711
    I checkd out an inflation-calculator web site, and a $17k Volvo 262 from 1978 would cost $49.5k in today's dollars. A $45k Mercedes 380SEL from 1981 would cost $96k in 2004 dollars. That kind of money could buy one a brand-new S500 or BMW 745Li today.
  • nolid5nolid5 Member Posts: 148
    late 80's Toyota Land Cruiser

    new Scion b

    Oldsmobile Delmont in the HS parking lot similar to this one image
    except in green.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Funny story. Friend asked me to help him check out an '85 Porsche Carrera Targa he was thinking of buying. We put it on a lift and as the car raised up, both doors popped open! I signaled with my index finger to "bring 'er down" and that was the end of that inspection. Car LOOKED great but oh, god, pity the poor soul who buys it. |Asking price?$15,000. Actual value? $3,000 (parts)

    It's a jungle out there. Beware of giant spiders dropping from trees.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    So far today I have seen an old old Nissan Patrol, and about a 1963 Olds F-85 (I think) convertible, red with a white top, in beautiful condition

    That 380SEL in 1981 was the equivalent of a S500 today, it was the top of the mass produced range, and I don't think the 500SEL made it here til around 83. I have a R&T road test on one from Jan 81 and indeed the sticker was $45453, 155hp, 0-60 in 10.1. Expensive, but undoubtedly the best upper end lux sedan of the day. That was the year Euro models could be had with both an airbag and ABS.

    That Bonneville is really an odd combination. Someone will save it.

    What was the Porsche problem...botched accident repair?
This discussion has been closed.