I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

wimsey1

Both the roofline and overall shape of the 'Vair were sweet. It was a good era for GM styling.
Agree on Nader too. If people can't drive they should turn in their liscences.

andre1969

no Corvair should ever be fitted with a vinyl roof!

seminole_kev

your love for 70's Chrylser's aside....NO CAR should ever be fitted with a vinyl roof. (or fake convertable, carriage roof either!)

stickguy

saw a prior generation (98-02) Accord at lunch today with a full vinyl roof. Car was black, and the roof was dark also, so it didn't really stand out futther defeating the purpose).

No accounting for taste, or lack of same.

michaellno

Background -- I live in a small town about halfway between Denver and Colorado Springs; population about 30,000. Lots of trucks and SUV's.

On Saturday and Sunday, however, I saw not one, not two but three different Bentleys. The first was the convertible, which I pointed out to my wife has an MSRP of roughly twice what we paid for our house. The other two were the last body style sedans. Odd to see them where I did.

Denver just had a Ferrari/Bentley dealer open up in the past year, so I suppose I shouldn't be too surprised, but still.....

andys120

when we discussed the XJ6 coupe with it's unflattering vinyl roof.

Most un-Jag-u-ar Old Boy!

seminole_kev

I'll never understand why vinyl roofs were popular. Heck, my mother's old 1980 Toyota Corolla sedan even came with a nice blue vinyl roof. I remember that it would actually collect mold between washes in Florida.

wimsey1

Always wondered why the vinyl on an otherwise good looking car. Could you even get one without it? I don't think I have ever seen such an animal.

Can any of you think of ANY car that looked better with the dirt collecter roof option? I think it was originally to give a "convertible" look to a hardtop and then got totally out of hand.

Saw a pretty decent looking white Dodge Challenger today. I rather liked the style of those cars also.

Mr_Shiftright

I think the XJ6 was the worst car ever built in a democratic industrialized nation since time began.

Other than that, they're fine.

Here a partial list from JAG-LOVERS.ORG. I edited it down to just the headings more or less. I can only imagine what people who DIDN'T love them would say!

(quoting them)
"The following is a list of serious problems reported by a number of members of the Jag-lovers list. Please do not be alarmed by what appears to be a large list.

Rust:

Rear radius arm mounting points:

Coolant problems: Jaguars have a reputation for overheating.

Worn Cam Followers: When the cam followers (aka tappet guides) become worn they can pop out, destroying your engine.

Timing Chains: The timing chains themselves are cheap, but they require a lot of expensive shop time to get to.

Front main crank seal: The XJ6 main seal design is awful. Expect to replace it every 40K miles no matter what.

Paint: Paint on most XJ's thru 1986 was terrible.

Gas Smell: "
-------------------------------------------------

Shiftright's Additions:

Early gearboxes are total junk. You can COUNT on failure.

And now for the PLUSSES:

They really ride nice and the interiors are lovely. I'd recommend buying one and never actually attempting to drive it. Just sit in it and play the radio.

andys120

One theory is that vinyl roofs evolved from the practice of using them on stretch limos to hide the seam created when the car was sectioned. Thus the vinyl, complete with Opera lights and Landau irons was an attempt to look like a Limo.
  
I think that was the look they were going for in my folks' K-Based Chrysler New Yorker, LOL!

Then there's the aforementioned "to make hardtops look like convertibles". Historically this was I think the real origin as they first came on the scene IIRC in the early sixties when GM offered Alternate HT styles on their coupe. You could get either a "bubble top" coupe or a faux convertible style complete with simulated ribs.

Oddly when intro ca. 1961 these convertible-style HTs could be ordered with or w/o the vinyl. The Psuedo convertible tops disappeared after a few years but the vinyl roofs persisted into the early 90s when Cadillac actually had to forbid dealers from selling them.

Annoyingly a number of really terrific cars of the 60s were trashed up with this style including pony cars and muscle coupes.

fintail

Cool fintail story...thanks for sharing. What color was the car?

I have seen another with AC...it was a dealer installed job called "Kuhlmeister". It was in a rusty but complete and mechanically OK late 220Sb auto that I could have had for a couple hundred bucks. I should have taken it.

Speaking of vinyl tops...There was a beautiful 280SEL 4.5 here with a vinyl top that apparently someone put on in the 70s. It was thin vinyl, and gave the car a two toned appearance that wasn't totally horrible. The owner crashed it, a shame.

Mr_Shiftright

My Sb was a kind of ivory----a yellow/white.

ghulet

....unfortunately is the color of mom's 300E that I may or may not inherit. Looks like the inside of a banana. Oh how I wish it were Smoke Silver or silver or black. At least it has a nice Palomino leather interior.

Today I saw a Citroen 2CV and a Chevette, whoopie!

fintail

Sounds like a familiar fintail color. Most I have seen are black/white/creme/or brown

seminole_kev

well don't read the E-types or Mk II's "what to look for" buying sections either! They tend to be the worst case scenarios, but exactly what you'd want on a "what to look for" list. Remember there are three distinct series of XJ's before the XJ40's and X300 versions. I wouldn't be anymore afraid of a series one XJ6 than I would a Mark II.

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah, but think about it-- an XJ6 is a Mark II or an E-Type with a) none of the fun, b) computer circuitry on top of Lucas electrics, and c)no resale value.

It's all pain and no gain with those cars. You own an XJ6, you essentially own a cripple, IMO, with the book value of a clean Ford Pinto.

Be afraid, be very afraid.

jrosasmc

Here's one car you can also be afraid of: the Volvo 760 ('80s style). No resale value or market for these cars to speak of, and the terribly PRV V-6 to boot. Let's not forget the incredibly dull styling as well.

Mr_Shiftright

There's a dead one in my parking lot you can have for free.

PF_Flyer

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Thanks!

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seminole_kev

but I don't think the series I XJ's have any type of ECU. I didn't think that started until the series II (or maybe III) cars. Maybe with the introduction of the (ugh) V12.

jrosasmc

I hope that 760 isn't yours.

ateixeira

I'm not sure what I spotted. Can anyone help identify this?

http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4290819759&p=4180544825- &idx=9

Pretty neat. Is that a Duesy?

-juice

andys120

one of the other poorly done Faux-classics from the 70s and 80s.

ateixeira

A badge on the front said something like "Semel?", it was a French sounding word. I did not recognize the crest logo on the top of the grille.

-juice

Mr_Shiftright

That abortion is some kind of fake-o fiberglas "neo-classic". Might be a Clenet but these cars are such a clumsy and naive mis-match of styling decades it's hard to tell sometimes. I wish I could even grit my teeth and grudgingly say "neat" along with you but I can't, sorry. To me, I see a hawaiian hula girl wearing a Mexican hat and singing country western songs while playing a saxaphone. It's a mess.

ateixeira

Clenet rings a bell, I think that's the text.

Man, nice call shifty.

-juice

Mr_Shiftright

So I didn't hurt your feelings?

ateixeira

Nah. I guess I like oddball cars. It really stood out in a parking lot full of generic sedans.

Are those side exhausts fake? The pipes are huge, maybe 4" diameter each.

-juice

Mr_Shiftright

yeah, fake. The car is all toupees and falsies I'm afraid.

Aside from mixing up 20s and 30s styling, and American and European cliches, you can see that the wheels are way too small and that many many "sight lines" collide, and do not merge harmoniously.

If we could view the interior, we'd see a steering wheel that is much too small, the jarring modern gauges, and materials that do not look rich or feel very good to the touch. Also, the automatic floor shift looks quite out of place.

Other problems include headlights and foglights that look like they came off a John Deere tractor.

ateixeira

Yeah, it was a "simulated convertible", i.e. vinyl top.

-juice

wimsey1

I remember that one of those "rip-off mobiles", may have been a Clenet, used a Spriget body from the firewall back. I think they dumped it on a truck chassis and then added the looooong hood and fenders. I remember the three little wipers on the windscreen.
I imagine by the time you added "luxo-padding" to the interior it was tough to find room for people.
A horrid fate for a charming little roadster. :-(

Mr_Shiftright

I remember this hiarious video someone once showed me about something like "Make Big Money in Real Estate".

The narrator was this really fat slob sitting by a swimming pool. After an intro, he stops and summons this kind of ditzy looking blonde over who's wearing a bikini and says "Oh, Appolonia, get me a drink will you?"

Then he keeps talking and after a short while walks over to his Zimmer/Clenet or whatever, tosses his gold chains to one side and slips behind the wheel...telling us all the time that "this could be you".

I wished I had saved it.

jaserb

'Splain this one to me. I know, I've seen Escalade, Navigator, Hummer H2 and even H1 Limos. But this one astounded me - a Ford SuperDuty Super Stretch pickup, complete with an 8' bed on the back! All I could do was weep for the decline of Western civilization...

-Jason

andre1969

is a real estate appraiser, owns his own business, has too much money, and just to go the whole stereotypical route, has one of those neoclassic looking cars that's built off the '83-86 Cougar body. I want to say it's a Tiffany, but I'm not sure. For some reason, those types of cars just seem to get associated with real-estate types!

andys120

The Chevy/GMC Suburban is the favored ride of Real Estate types (big tax deduction for heavyweight vehicles).

fintail

The Tiffany was indeed based on the Cougar. I recall these cars when I was little in things like the DuPont Registry. Even then I thought they were horrible. The only real good pimpy neoclassic is a Stutz or an Excalibur

Here's a Tiffany>

scscars

Fintail: That Tiffany is truly absurd. Pseudo-Packard styling on the outside with the interior of an '85 Cougar and a column shifter no less. Apparently Tiffany's manufacturer was too cheap to spring for the console and automatic stick. I gotta wonder what the sidepipes "hook up" to? A 3.8 liter Ford V-6 maybe?? I don't recall mid-80's Cougars having 5.0 liter V-8's as an option. Anyone know if they did?

Speaking of obscure Fords, I've been seeing a tired-looking red and white 2-door '56 Ford Ranch Wagon being used as a daily driver running around the NW suburbs of Chicago the last few weeks.

lancerfixer

Hey, look. Someone out-sillied the guy with the '81 Accord Limo.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item- =2470842126&category=31878

nolid5

I do believe that is one of the most ridiculous things I have seen. Good thing there are no hills in FL to have to haul that boat over :-).

Fintail, the website where you picked up that Tiffany photos has some other equally gross replicars. There's a couple Zimmers, a couple Benz replicas, yuck.

ateixeira

I think the Cougar had a 3.2l V6? Can't recall for certain. My dad had an '86, I even drove it to my senior prom!

-juice

Mr_Shiftright

If you've all had breakfast, I could show you a photo of a fiberglass Jaguar XK120 roadster mounted on a VW chassis & powertrain. Or is this too cruel?

RE: sidepipes---they are never hooked up on these "neo-classics" because of liability issues.

"neo-classic" is an interesting word. Sort of self-cancelling. Only an American could even make up such a bizarre marketing label.

Why, it's a "neo-antique". We used to call them fakes.

Yes, I'd vote for the Pontiac-based Duesenberg as "High Pimp", with the newer models of the Excalibur a close second. For sheer design chaos, the later Excalibur would have to win.

That said, the very very early Excaliburs were kind of cool. Very simple, very fast two seater, and a real Death Trap---just the kind of car I like! I think they were on a cut Studebaker chassis with Chevy power. They were meant to replicate a bare-bones "Man of Iron" race car from the 1920s. None of that "luxury" pu-pu back then.

ateixeira

For a new interpretation of an old idea, I'll stick with my Miata. :-)

-juice

jrosasmc

Yesterday I had a nice chat down at my local Volvo dealership with a guy who owns a '72 P1800. I saw this car close up and he did tell me all about the bad points that the cars have. Here's a brief rundown:

Not-so-great driving position
Incredibly slow steering
Long shift throws
Smiths gauges that hardly work
Frail body that is notorious for rusting

I thought the 240s had their bad points, but this P1800 makes a Hyundai look like a Lexus!

Mr_Shiftright

Well you know Sweden didn't exactly have a long history of making sports cars. The P1800 is probably no worse than a Jaguar E-Type, the difference being however that an E-Type is fast, fun, and beautiful, 3 things that the original P1800 didn't exactly excel at (did you catch the Hyundai pun?).

I've seen P1800s turned into decent cars. You can get suspension upgrades from IPD, rework the engine using B20E heads, change the stock carburetors, add electronic ignition, a good oil cooler (instead of that silly thing they have on there) and put in some decent seats and get rid of that sadly worthless instrumentation.

The P1800E sport wagon would be a much better choice, IMO. You already get the bigger engine, FI and more attractive body style.

seminole_kev

as the Smith gauges in the old Jags aren't really known for giving problems. Maybe they're just eclipsed by other problems ;-)

Seriously though, wonder if maybe different senders\sensors were used with the Volvo than what Jag used with it's Smith guages.

the Mk II I have has Smith and (insert evil, 30's scary movie organ music here) Lucas guages

andys120

Smith's gauges in my '66 TR and don't recall a single failure. Not that a lot of other things didn't fail.

 The Tach in my brother's TR-250 did fail. I still have the busted one.

I assume your comparison of the E-Type and the P1800, refers to electro-mechanical problems, Shifty not, to such things as poor driving position and slow steering.

My recollection was that the ergonomics of the E-type were pretty good, the steering and shifter were paragons (later all-synchro gearbox).

andre1969

as well as the Mustang, did have a 5.0 V-8 option, but I can't remember if it was available for the whole run. Standard engine was a 232 (better known as the 3.8 headgasket-blower) V-6, which started off at 105 hp with a 2-bbl car, but was fuel-injected pretty quickly, to get it up to 120 hp. Ford also had a small 4.2 (255) V-8 that was based on the 302 and 351, that started seeing a lot of use around 1979. I think it was last seen in '82 though, on those "baroque" styled T-birds. It was a dog, putting out around 110-120 hp, and I think the only reason Ford even had it was to be able to claim that the Crown Vic had V-8 power standard, whereas a downsized Impala/Caprice had a 6-cyl. Nevermind it was a 250 CID inline 6 from '77-79, and then a 229 V-6 from '80-84, and it put out close to the same hp as Ford's base V-8!

I think 1983 was the first year they fuel-injected the 302, and I believe it put out 130 hp that first year, and was soon thereafter upped to 140 (and much, much more in HO cars like the Mustang and Mark VII)

How much would something like a Tiffany weigh? The Cougars they were based on really weren't that heavy back then, being unitized and based on the lightweight Fairmont. They were lighter than GM's body-on-frame downsized intermediates, and considerably lighter than the Aspen/Volare platform that Chrysler was using for all of its RWD compact/midsized cars around the same timeframe. Those 302's weren't bad in something like a Cougar or T-bird, and Ford offered a slightly stronger, 165 hp unit for the '84-85 LTD LX, but I'd imagine a Tiffany wouldn't be much of a performer!

lemko

...any of these "neoclassics." I recall a doctor who had one of those "neoclassics" that resembled a 1920s Mercedes roadster back in the 1970s. I also seem to recall a Model A replica that wasn't too acurate and a 1957 T-Bird replicar.

Does anybody remember the Custom Cloud - a Rolls wannabe that was based on the 1973-77 Monte Carlo? I understand it used actual Silver Shadow taillights.

Mr_Shiftright

I've never seen these types of P1800 Smith gauges on any other car. They are very weird and I suspect designed just for this one application. That might explain their seemingly high failure rate. It would be the rare P1800 indeed that had all of the gauges working unless they had been rebuilt for the tenth time. Sometimes they don't die completely, just give you totally wrong readings---which is not very useful. I always wondered why they were so bad, but there you go.

But the P1800 is basically sturdy. They don't hand-grenade on you like a 60s Fiat or VW might. You have to be pretty mean to kill one completely.

But I wouldn't personally mention them in the same breath as a Porsche 356, which is really a delight to drive and very reliable as well.

jrosasmc

Andre- I remember the old Ford 3.8-liter V-6, as we had one in an '85 Mercury Marquis we once owned. Was it a troublesome engine from the beginning? (i.e. head gasket failures)

That's one of my main peeves with older cars from the '60s and '70s- they seem to have super-slow steering. I recall driving an old VW Bug once and it had nowhere near the steering response like my newish Volvo has.