I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

berri

I think what has happened is that the market for medium priced vehicle brands kind of disappeared. Probably because the imports like Toyota just sell their cars in base and upper level trims, eliminating a middle market separate make and the costs attributed with running another division.

PF_Flyer

Coming home from dinner tonight, and daughter #1 goes, "What's THAT?" as we approach an intersection with a car waiting to make a left in front of us. A Delorean. Did not have the flux capacitor

stickguy

outside a local shop, a decent looking (not all restored) 50 or 51 bullet nose Stude commander. Interesting looking car, especially these days!

fintail

Today got behind a 66-67 GTO in traffic (shocking), saw a very clean early Vanagon moving along, and a Mark VII LSC, kind of a dark red with blackout trim.

kyfdx

fintail said:

Today got behind a 66-67 GTO in traffic (shocking), saw a very clean early Vanagon moving along, and a Mark VII LSC, kind of a dark red with blackout trim.

My aunt had an '85 Mark VII LSC. She loved that car. Was t-boned at an intersection in 1992 and totaled it. Only had 36K miles.

sda

ab348 said:

Of course the billions that GM poured into the Saturn sinkhole, diverting development money and attention away from their other brands, did not help.

Dad was a Pontiac man in the '60s, owning a '62, '63, '65 and a '67. He went to Chevy for '69 (a mistake) and then Dodge for '71, and that was the end of his Pontiac time until his '78 Grand LeMans Safari, which was his last. I remember he wanted a '71 full-size Pontiac, or at least it was in consideration, but the GM strike that year meant there were few available on the dealer lots. Even the '78 still had a distinctly Pontiac feel to it, but the front-drive models that came later were pretty generic it seemed.

The only one I owned was my '77 LeMans coupe, which I liked. But I remember looking at the last couple of generations of the Grand Prix in the early-mid 2000s when I was in the market and just did not like them at all.

Dad was typically a Pontiac, Olds, Cadillac man. When my parents married dad had a black Catalina 2dr hardtop, with red interior, and mom had the '55 Chevy 210, a picture I posted earlier. With the exception of 3 cars, dad always bought used, generally 2-4 years old and low mileage. Though there were some gaps in GM ownership he always gravitated back to GM. Here is a quick list of cars he bought:


59 Pontiac Catalina 2dr
63 Olds Dynamic 88 Holiday 2dr
70 Olds 98 Luxury Sedan
72 Olds Cutlass Supreme
71 Audi 100 LS automatic (we were in France)
76 GMC Sierra 15, new, full time 4wd (moved back to US, Virginia)
76 Olds Cutlass Supreme wagon, new
77 Mercury Grand Marquis (started to have transmission problems, hastily traded)
78 Cadillac DeVille D'Elegance (sold after 9 months) Had been wrecked and chewed up tires
79 Eldorado Diesel---oops, not a good move. Beautiful car, ran great when it ran.
78 Olds 98 LS sedan (flipped for a profit)
78 Olds 98 Regency 2dr with astro-roof (for mom)
85 Mercury Grand Marquis LS (dad not happy with GM, their lack of response to repeated costly diesel issues)
87 Ford Taurus LX with sunroof (for mom, replaced 98 Regency)
95 Olds Cutlass Cierra SL II, new, replaced 85 Grand Marquis. (dad's last car, he had a restricted license due to vision issues and gave the Cierra to me when he could no longer drive)
98 Olds Aurora, sunroof, autobahn. (mom's, replaced Taurus)
10 Honda CRX (mom's, replaced Aurora)


If Olds was still in business, I feel certain mom would still be driving one.

ab348

It must have been quite an adjustment for him going from a '70 Olds 98 to a '72 Cutlass.

sda

ab348 said:

It must have been quite an adjustment for him going from a '70 Olds 98 to a '72 Cutlass.

At that time dad had company cars, so the Olds 98 was mom's. She loved the Cutlass! Dad's company car that he had the privilege of selecting was a '71 Pontiac Catalina 2dr, dark metallic brown, darker brown vinyl top, medium brown interior, Rally II wheels, 350-2bbl, a/c. I thought it was quite sharp and a huge improvement over his last company car which is a '70 Ford Custom 500, 302 2bbl, a/c, blackwalls--a typical company car.

My memory is slipping..it was a '69 Olds 98, though pretty much the same as a '70.

sda

You don't see these very often. The owner must have known what he was buying as he traded a 1980 Citation for it!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevrolet-Citation-X-11/162138667251?_trksid=p2047675.c100010.m2109&_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIC.MBE&ao=1&asc=35389&meid=345561238159444f96391efe051c596a&pid=100010&rk=4&rkt=5&sd=142053557567

texases

As much as I liked that X-11 when it came out, paying almost twice the cost of a new Citation would have kept me away. $11k in '82, wow.

stickguy

Nice color. Too bad not a stick. I always thought these were attractive.

ab348

Citations and their corporate cousins used to be everywhere. They all seemed to disappear around the same time and I cannot remember the last time I saw one on the roads here. My dad had an '82 or '83 Omega Brougham 2-door with the V6 that drove nicely and was very posh inside.

uplanderguy

I liked the look of the '80 X-11 better, but the later ones had the H.O. V6, good for the time. That one for sale has the same aluminum wheels I ordered on my '85 Celebrity Eurosport 2-door.

I considered buying an '85 X-11 in stock, but worried about resale value as the announcement had already been made they were being discontinued. Same chassis, wheelbase, exactly as the Celebrity.

fintail

I think 1996-98 or so is when all the X-cars vanished around here. Like many old Japanese cars, one day they were all gone.

sda

ab348 said:

Citations and their corporate cousins used to be everywhere. They all seemed to disappear around the same time and I cannot remember the last time I saw one on the roads here. My dad had an '82 or '83 Omega Brougham 2-door with the V6 that drove nicely and was very posh inside.

I get the impression that the 'X' cars were engineered to last about 100k. As a car to take me to work and back I bought an '82 Buick Skylark fully loaded, V6 from an original owner in '89. It had all the service records and had about 80k. Clean, comfortable, it was a good commuter car. I actually took some trips in it because it was more comfortable than my 'good' car. At 98k the a/c compressor was leaking, the lock up on the transmission wasn't working, it had the GM morning sickness with the rack and pinion steering and the carb needed to be rebuilt. It still drove tightly, no rattles or squeaks and looked nice. I could not justify the expense of getting everything repaired and ended up selling it cheaply. I bet a lot of the "X' cars ended up in the junk yard for similar reasons.

fintail

Around 1996, some teenage twin boys who were friends of my brother were gifted an 81 Skylark sedan with something like <20K miles on it, it was the proverbial little old lady's car, and it was mint, and nicely equipped, dark blue with medium blue velour. Even then I cringed at the thought, as I knew how this would end up. I remember riding in the car a few times, and was taken aback at how clean it was. It slowly began to circle the drain as it wasn't kept as clean, and was being driven hard. I think they got about a year or so out of it, then it was done - I think it ended up being claimed by powertrain failure, likely via neglect. Next time I see my brother, I should ask him if he remembers what did it, he remembers what did in his own cars.

sda

fintail said:

Around 1996, some teenage twin boys who were friends of my brother were gifted an 81 Skylark sedan with something like <20K miles on it, it was the proverbial little old lady's car, and it was mint, and nicely equipped, dark blue with medium blue velour. Even then I cringed at the thought, as I knew how this would end up. I remember riding in the car a few times, and was taken aback at how clean it was. It slowly began to circle the drain as it wasn't kept as clean, and was being driven hard. I think they got about a year or so out of it, then it was done - I think it ended up being claimed by powertrain failure, likely via neglect. Next time I see my brother, I should ask him if he remembers what did it, he remembers what did in his own cars.</p>

Too funny, mine was dark metallic blue with medium blue interior! I have some pictures of it that I need to scan.

sda

From my deep vault of archives...these were taken in 1990 just before I sold the Skylark. I had bought it to keep the miles off the VW Cabriolet Wolfsburg that you see in the garage. This was at my first house that I've purchased with a low mortgage rate at the time, 10% 30 yr fixed. ouch!

sda

And one more, mom's '78 Olds 98 Regency. It was fully loaded with leather, all power, astro-roof, Olds 403 V8. She drove it for about 10 years and had about 175k on it when it was traded for a two year old '87 Ford Taurus LX, also fully loaded with sunroof.

fintail

That Skylark is definitely like the one I remember, although I think the one I saw had wire wheelcovers. It was kind of a neat little car in a way, I already saw it as a preservation piece even then. I see power seats, must have been a nicely equipped car.

I'd jump at paying 10% interest if I could buy real estate around here at 1990 prices

berri

I much preferred an X car rental over a Fairmont or K car. The Skylark was kind of a nice looking small car with a very nice (for the times) interior. But I'm sure others may have different preferences among them. I also felt that the subsequent larger A bodies were even nicer.

roadburner

My wife had a 1984 Skylark T-Type when we got married. Despite all the bad press the X Bodies received it was a surprisingly decent car- and borderline quick for its time. The only real problem it had was the power steering "morning sickness" and Buick paid half of the repair cost even though the warranty had expired. I also had to replace the rear shocks sooner than I had expected. My wife might have bought another Skylark but the next generation just looked downright weird.

ab348

sda said:

And one more, mom's '78 Olds 98 Regency. It was fully loaded with leather, all power, astro-roof, Olds 403 V8. She drove it for about 10 years and had about 175k on it when it was traded for a two year old '87 Ford Taurus LX, also fully loaded with sunroof.

Imagine how much bigger it would have been if it hadn't been downsized 2 years prior. As it is, by today's standards it would still be considered a boat. Nice cars though,, I loved those late-'70s 98s.

Here is the other end of the Olds line for '78, my Delta 88 (non-Royale), pretty much a stripper except for a remote mirror, vinyl top and whitewalls. Bought it in '97 for $2K, sold it in '03.

sda

ab348 said:

sda said:

And one more, mom's '78 Olds 98 Regency. It was fully loaded with leather, all power, astro-roof, Olds 403 V8. She drove it for about 10 years and had about 175k on it when it was traded for a two year old '87 Ford Taurus LX, also fully loaded with sunroof.

Imagine how much bigger it would have been if it hadn't been downsized 2 years prior. As it is, by today's standards it would still be considered a boat. Nice cars though,, I loved those late-'70s 98s.

Here is the other end of the Olds line for '78, my Delta 88 (non-Royale), pretty much a stripper except for a remote mirror, vinyl top and whitewalls. Bought it in '97 for $2K, sold it in '03.

I thought the 88s and 98s of that period to be handsome. Did yours have the Olds V8 or the Chevy? Those are later model wheel covers from an '80-81? I like the color.

ab348

It had the Olds Rocket 350 engine. Ran great, surprisingly zippy. Actually was peppier than my '79 Electra Park Avenue with the 403, which unfortunately had something like a 2.41 rear end.

When I bought it there was a set of plastic aftermarket wire wheel covers on it that had to go. I quickly found those early '80s space disk covers for $20/set and installed them, but never liked them much. Later on I found a set of the proper '78 covers and swapped them over. They looked better than these. This was a pic of it just before I sold it. It was parked here when someone knocked on the door and asked me if I wanted to sell it. Deal was done after a short test drive, no ad, no haggle!

fintail

Was the passenger mirror an option on that 88?

stickguy

I consider it a boat. I can't believe they used to be so much bigger.

ab348

fintail said:

Was the passenger mirror an option on that 88?

Yes, but it was not original to that car.

Back then these were still relatively plentiful in junkyards around here and in the late '90s not many people wanted stuff from them so it was very cheap. The first few years I had it I would amuse myself on Saturdays going to a few favored U-pull yards and finding stuff I wanted. That passenger mirror was in that category. It was actually a remote mirror so I had to take the pieces of the dash I needed as well along with the sleeve between the door and the A-pillar for the cable. I also replaced the drivers remote mirror with a different, better-cndition one, along with adding a factory clock, upgrading the radio, various pieces of interior trim, etc. Plus of course all the light bulbs, fuses, screws and assorted small bits you could stash in your toolbox.

uplanderguy

Re.: my earlier story of seeing my sixth-grade teacher's '65 Satellite convertible a few weeks back--

I heard from her today on Facebook!

She was amused by the story.

She got that car as a college graduation gift--and never sold it!

Said she has a pic of her in it the day she got it. I asked her to post that. She said she would if she learned how to, LOL.

She said it's not in 'perfect' shape, but it looked real nice when I saw it a few weeks back in my hometown's car show.

Not too many people, particularly women, have their first new car over 50 years later!

ab348

sda said:

I thought the 88s and 98s of that period to be handsome. Did yours have the Olds V8 or the Chevy? Those are later model wheel covers from an '80-81? I like the color.

Forgot to mention the color - Dark Carmine Metallic, a popular GM shade in the late 1970s. My dad bought a '79 Impala in the exact same shade years earlier. I always thought that formula had a bit of brown to it. Here is a rear shot I forgot which I think is one of the best aspects of the design.

uplanderguy

My good friend's grandfather was a true Olds man. In his eighties, he bought a new '77 Delta 88 sedan, dark blue, handsome car. When it came out that Chevy engines went into some of them, he went out and found that telltale "L" in his serial number, and he was not happy. He was a great old guy, but I remember him saying, "I thought I was paying for a Rocket V8". I understand what he meant.

berri

I think things like that and look-a-like styling didn't help the long term status of mid priced model lines. However, earlier decisions to up the full size Chevy and Ford top models was already eroding the image of mid level model lines among newer buyers.

sda

uplanderguy said:

My good friend's grandfather was a true Olds man. In his eighties, he bought a new '77 Delta 88 sedan, dark blue, handsome car. When it came out that Chevy engines went into some of them, he went out and found that telltale "L" in his serial number, and he was not happy. He was a great old guy, but I remember him saying, "I thought I was paying for a Rocket V8". I understand what he meant.

I seem to remember finding out about Chevy engines finding their way into Olds from a 60 Minutes program. A new owner of a '77 Olds was having some issues, an engine belt I think, and the belts listed for the 350 wouldn't fit. Come to find out it was not an Olds engine but a Chevy engine. Having grown up with many Olds in the family driveway, and a fan of Olds, I was not impressed. I was in high school at the time. I learned to easily identify Olds engines by their oil filler neck, front center of the engine.

ab348

Plus people who knew engines realized that the Olds Rocket a superior engine to the SBC in so many ways that it was a significant downgrade to the car.

berri

Illinois forced GM to pay the ripped off Olds buyers with now Chevymobiles $500 each.

andre1969

Pontiac actually benefitted from some of that engine swapping. The main reason it happened in the first place was that Olds gave first priority, for whatever reason, to the Cutlass in '77. So supposedly, all '77 Cutlasses equipped with a 350 used the Olds unit. GM had expected the downsized big cars to cut into midsized sales, and at the other three divisions they did. But somehow, the '77 Cutlass actually managed to outsell its '76 counterpart! That created shortages of the Olds 350. On top of that, California imposed tighter emissions restriction that year, and the Buick and Pontiac engines couldn't pass them, so GM substituted Olds units for California/high altitude Pontiacs and Buicks that would have otherwise gotten their own divisions' 350s.

There was a '77 Bonneville at the GM show in Carlisle PA this past year, that had an Olds 350 in it. And, it had been sold new in the area. So, in Pontiac's case at least, the Olds transplants extended beyond California.

sda

This is a slightly better picture of mom's '78 Olds 98 Regency. You can see my '76 Sunbird in the background. Also some pictures of a '65 Cutlass that I bought for $250 for a quick flip. In retrospect it is a car I wish I had kept. It was not at 442, but had the 330 4bbl high compression V8, factory buckets, console and tach. It ran great but gas mileage was in the 10 mpg range. Another car I wish I had kept was our '73 Grand Am. It was a 4 door, but was a neat car. Dad bought it for my sisters to drive and then sold it to me cheaply, knowing that I would clean it up and sell it for a profit. The pictures of the Cutlass are old and faded, and the others didn't come over in the order that I had selected.

sda

One more of the Cutlass

andre1969

I think that '73 Grand Am would be extra cool BECAUSE it's the 4-door version. You don't see those too often! I always had an appreciation for the '73-77 A-body 4-doors. The passenger cabins seemed open and airy, almost futuristic in comparison to what the norm was for the time. The 2-doors were more typical of the era, more closed in. Although, the cheaper models with the big triangular windows in back weren't bad.

That '65 Cutlass sounds like it was a cool car. And I love that Ninety-Eight!

kyfdx

As someone who got their license in the '70s, let me be clear. In the '70s, 4-doors were not cool.

But, like wagons, they've grown on me, over time.

roadburner

I got my license in 1973, and I liked four door cars with bucket seats and floor shift. A bench seat and a column shift immediately removed a car from consideration.

fintail

Today I saw a TR8 - on the road. It looked to be very clean but maybe not perfect, so I suspect an immaculate original car, as who would restore one? Also a couple of W124 diesels - a clean enough 1991-93 driven by a middle aged man, and a very dirty 94-95 model driven by a younger woman.

stickguy

in a driveway near me, a nice looking black 67 Camaro SS. Sharp.

berri

4-doors were not cool...But, like wagons, they've grown on me, over time

I think that's because as you get older nostalgia plays into things more and most of us grew up with 4 doors and wagons. They were the vehicles we actually rode in and learned to drive in.

uplanderguy

I didn't like four doors either growing up, and I'd say that was the general consensus into the '70's.

My parents had '73, '74, '77, '80, and '84 Chevys of various models, all two-doors, I think due in part to my prodding, LOL.

I'll say that I don't ever remember seeing a real four-door Grand Am of that first generation, other than in ads. There were one or two coupes, white with red and blue pinstriping, in our town that I can remember.

The Grand Am and Cutlass Salon were the first four-door cars I can remember being available with buckets and console and floor shift, although my world was limited to GM then. I do remember a '64 Studebaker Cruiser 4-door in town with buckets, floor shift automatic and console, and I know now they were available from the factory that way.

ab348

andre1969 said:

I think that '73 Grand Am would be extra cool BECAUSE it's the 4-door version. You don't see those too often! I always had an appreciation for the '73-77 A-body 4-doors. The passenger cabins seemed open and airy, almost futuristic in comparison to what the norm was for the time. The 2-doors were more typical of the era, more closed in. Although, the cheaper models with the big triangular windows in back weren't bad.

That '65 Cutlass sounds like it was a cool car. And I love that Ninety-Eight!

Andre, I'll echo the words of @berri over in the Cars & Conversation discussion: thanks for posting and I wish you'd do that more often. And as he also said, we need to get @lemko posting here again too.

bhill2

uplanderguy said:

I do remember a '64 Studebaker Cruiser 4-door in town with buckets, floor shift automatic and console, and I know now they were available from the factory that way.

I can move the benchmark for this configuration back by one year with the four-door version of the 1963 Ford Galaxie 500 XL. Can anyone move it back further than that?

berri

I don't recall a 62 version. I can't recall if the 63 XL 4 door ht was for the full year, or just a midyear introduction like the new (thanks to NASCAR) 2 dr fastback version?

berri

I'm out eating dinner, look out the window and see a really pristine 64 Plymouth 2dr ht. pulling into the parking lot. I mean even the chrome looked perfect and the red and white interior was spot on as well. I always liked the looks of that one year model 64 Plymouth and Dodge coupe. Don't see them much and the guy was brave putting that thing into a parking lot space.

fintail

This morning spotted a Samurai and a 2 door Rodeo within a couple minutes of each other, on the road spotted a 60s Stingray convertible stuck in traffic in ~85F weather, also a ~68 El Camino and a W123 on the highway.